Welcome to the forums, EdwardMatthew! You wrote that you saw almost all the posts.. what do you like about what you saw?

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

“(N) has described feeling alone in his childhood. He said he was often left home alone and played by himself. He has said that his mom didn’t really listen to him and didn’t SEE him… He said when his mom was mad at him it automatically made her mad at his dad to, as if all his ‘faults’ were because of his dad’s influence“- his mom’s anger was directed at his dad, not at her son. It is not an ideal situation, of course.. but him being out of the line of fire, may have been a positive aspect of his childhood compared to the alternative.

“I agree, it was not out of love. He would frame it as love, and make me feel so guilty as if I was not loving him enough. My mom, on the other hand was very selfless when it came to splitting time with my parents…”- (1) making one’s daughter feel so guilty = NOT loving one’s daughter. (2) your mother’s selfless behavior was a positive aspect in your childhood, compared to the alternative of having two selfish, self-centered parents.

“I have always felt I lacked self discipline, I struggle to stick with things like jobs (for over a year) and when I try to get on a healthy workout routine, I lose motivation at about 4 weeks. I just start to feel like what’s the point, I only have one life why am I living it with rules for myself..“- feeling restrained by rules, as in being unfree, caged in, jailed…?

“How my dad made me feel at the ‘house cleaning’ meetings. He would list all these things I did that showed that I was ungrateful for… manipulate me into feeling so bad… I truly attempted to be hyper aware and thought of how every little thing I did could possibly be interpreted by him. I once told him I felt I was walking on egg shells… I thought everything was just my fault“-

– feeling that everything was your fault and feeling scared of the next house-cleaning meeting, trying to prevent the next and the next by walking on egg shells, keeping yourself hyper aware of every little thing: this emotional state in itself is a form of imprisonment.. something anyone would want to be FREE from.

“Is it because I had toxic parents at home that when I got to school I had no energy for any more toxic people? As if I went to school already exhausted and drained I couldn’t take on any more?“-

– I am guessing that in school, you didn’t feel the fear/ guilt/ confusion that you felt in your father’s house (and which blocked you from confronting him), so you didn’t have these things in your way, blocking you from confronting toxic people at school.

“How do I allow myself to be in a care free child state, and a strong self-reliant adult, at the same time? For example, if one day hatchling is craving a care free childlike day of arts/crafts but adult Seaturtle needs to be self-reliant and go to her job where hatchling has to sit still“-

– Think of this: two mothers take their children to their workplace. One child is used to be carefree and childlike at home. At the workplace, she plays, but not too loudly and she doesn’t run around breaking things. Much of the time she can sit still as she plays. And so, the mother and the child can co-exist at work.

The second child is not used to be care-free and childlike at home, she often feels restrained and having to act like an adult, careful and cautious, walking on egg shells, so she craves to be carefree and childlike. Once given the chance (outside the home), she overdoes it: she keeps yelling, running and bumping into things and she can’t sit still. The two, mother and child have to go home, or to the park because they cannot co-exist at work.

“This is intense. Towards the end of living with my dad and after, I thought his misplaced trust or expectations of me were those that he expected and never received from my mother… My mom broke his trust in many ways, and it was as if he treated my teenage years of sneaking out to parties I wasn’t allowed to go to, as if I had cheated on him in marriage.. He also treated me like I was a (very bluntly put) like I was a slut like my mom… Before leaving to school from ages 13-18 my outfits would get checked… he told me I wasn’t allowed to wear jeans without a shirt that covered my butt… he would promote outfits that made me look like a box… sexualizing me and telling me how boys would think”, “what do you think about this?“-

– I think covert incest. I think of a child placed in a box that’s labeled “adult”. I think of a daughter placed in a box labeled “wife”. I think it gets claustrophobic in that box. I’d think you can’t sit still in that box.

“I went to the kitchen, got a knife from the drawer and went back to my room and held it to my bare chest, I remember wanting to end it right there, but after just leaving a very small red dot, I put it under my bed“- this is what a girl does when placed and kept in a box for too long.

“I was able to calm my anxiety, when he showed up it re-appeared inside me but I didn’t say anything in the anxiety and after about 15 min we were sitting down and I felt at peace and we enjoyed the evening together. When I wrote the post the next morning, the feelings rose up again, and it made me wonder if the night before I ‘over-tamed’ hatchling? What do you think?”- I think that it will take a significant degree of freeing the caged girl from the box before you can figure appropriate self discipline vs over-self-discipline. The caged girl (over-tamed hatchling)- needs out of the box.

“I feel like I have been dealing with two separate battles when it comes to deciding if this is the right relationship for me. Part one of the battle, is what we majorly speak about… Also sexually, we are compatible in many ways, enough to be satisfied with. However I find a lot of other things in life erotic, foreplay… he skips foreplay often unless I sort of make it all happen… I like myself better when I embody my feminine energy….  N brings out my tom-boy behaviors..  I miss my femininity. I sort of feel like I want a man that brings the parts of me I love, out to the surface“-

– out from the dark box to the surface where there’s light; out of the non-feminine, non-sexual/ tom boy box your father (not N) placed you in?

“I also feel like eroticism is what I want to be involved too. By eroticism, I mean a compatibility in what turns us on and makes us feel connected, I have this desire for someone to connect with me so deeply, I know it exists on this earth and I want it. Sometimes I wonder if I break up with N…  the universe will reward me with something magnetically just magical.. I truly hope my hopes are not DANGEROUSLY too high of expectations“-

– I think your that your expectations are indeed too high because.. a girl caged in a non-sexual box IMAGINES that sex must be .. eternally magnetic and magical. It is similar to a starving person imagining eating a steak, imagining it to always- every time and for the rest of his life- be a magical, heavenly experience. But after the first few times.. it isn’t. Sometimes it is, but at other times it’s overcooked or undercooked or it’s too chewy or you’re just not very hungry, etc.

N may not be the guy for you, there might be someone more compatible, but unrealistic expectations need to be considered.

“Do you think that I can re-associate and release my feelings about my childhood experiences with my father through art?… a blank canvas could be helpful for me…  I have considered starting an art therapy class, I am not sure how to go about it or what qualification’s I would need, but it seems like I may be looping back to that idea“- reads promising to me. Art is definitely a way to re-associate with and process dissociated feelings.

“I appreciate this option to journal here“- journal away..!

“(F) would also always tell me I basically wasn’t special… He literally told me I didn’t have original thoughts. Like I would say something I thought was a good idea or think I started a trend or that people liked what I wore or something like that and he would laugh and just make fun of me for thinking I came up with it”- he wanted you in the box: no curves and no original ideas (or humor) allowed.. In the box without anything that makes you.. you.

“I do believe I am unique. I think I project F into N in this scenario though, because I don’t feel like he thinks I am special.. I battle this. I often wonder if N would pick me from a room of women… I don’t know how much of this is projecting F into N“-

– I agree that you are unique but your craving to be unique is too strong.. like the starving person craving a steak, the craving leads to (1) frustrations that are too intense in regard to what’s lacking in the present, (2) unrealistic expectations of a magical future.

It is your right of course, to break up with N. I’m just saying that.. well, I said it right above.

anita

Dear Kate:

Welcome back to the forums, and congratulations n getting married. You shared about your husband in your first thread back in May-Sept 2021. I want to go over the content of your first thread where we communicated,  so to understand your current situation better.

In late May 2021, you shared that in 2020, during lockdown, you started talking to a guy (you referred to him as D, your current husband) who was “a very good friend since the start of my college“. You developed feelings for him sometime along the way and got emotionally attached to him . In November 2020 he proposed to you, you accepted his proposal and the two of you started dating.

At the end of May 2021 (the date of your first thread), you expressed a concern which is very similar to your concern today, 2.5 years later: “It concerns me. Had my bf had feelings for someone else, it would have really hurt me and wouldn’t, for sure, have known how to deal with that. Even sometimes currently, when D doesn’t reply (to) me on time, despite being online, I get scared thinking that he might be talking to someone else. Not sure if I am having trusting issues or I am insecure of myself“.

In the beginning of June 2021, you shared about past romantic relationships that didn’t go well. In the first, your boyfriend at the time told you that while the two of you weren’t talking for seven days, “he started seeing someone else. And when we got back together, he broke up with that girl. And this really broke me. My belief system was complete shattered“.

Your second boyfriend was critical of your body and looks. You shared about him and a girl in your friend group: “gradually I started seeing their rapport building…  we would fight a lot because of that girl“.

In regard to D: “I find it difficult to remain positive about my current relationship. My boyfriend is a great guy. He cares for me and loves me. But sometimes, I just feel a disconnect. I am not sure where is the issue and how do I deal with it.. I find it difficult to trust him. I feel scared that what if he talks to someone and falls for her. The other day we were just talking and he tells me that there are no girls in his team (work). I asked if he wants girls in his team to which he said it’s good to have a diverse team. He meant everything in a positive way but it’s me who’s not able to take anything positively I guess. Whenever, he doesn’t reply to me, I feel paranoid about what he might be doing“.

“As a child, I was insecure of my looks and was made fun of or not treated well by other children at times“.

End of September 2021: “I am doing good. Started with a new job. Relationship is progressing. Though there are ups and downs but it is going in the forward direction“.

Two+ years later, you shared today, Nov 9, 2023, that you are married to D: ” I read my husband’s text messages sometimes. I know I shouldn’t do this but just not able to control it. May be, trust issues.”-

– surely trust issues. At the end of May 2021, you wrote: “Not sure if I am having trusting issues or I am insecure of myself“. I think it’s both and the two are connected: feeling that you are physically unattractive can easily lead to not trusting a man to be loyal to.. an allegedly unattractive woman.

“So, a few days ago, I read that he texted one of his female friends back in 2021 (we were dating then) that if he ever has to have an extra marital affair, it would be with that friend….  I knew of this girl to be a close friend but I had no idea about any history with this girl“- he may have a flirting history with her and nothing more. Flirting between young, single men and women is very common. At the time you were neither married nor engaged, correct?

Here is a key question: since you’ve been reading his text messaging history: did you find any flirtatious messages between him and other women while the two of you were engaged or married?

“I feel his involvement too much in his friends or phone at times and that causes insecurity and anxiety. Please help me how should I handle this!“-

– In regard to you feeling that he is too involved with his friends and phone-  male and female friends? Any flirtatious involvement? If the answer to the latter is No, and if you found no history of flirtatious messages on his phone since the two of you were engaged and married.. then it is very normal (although not a positive thing) for especially young people to spend a LOT of time on their phones- not an indication of cheating. Also, because of your great sensitivity to the possibility of being cheated on, I assume that any involvement with a female friend would feel like too much… depending how insecure and anxious you feel at any particular moment. Do you agree.. or disagree?

“I don’t know if I should confront him or not about this. If I have to confront him then I don’t know how should I do that. Because I read his messages secretly“- the title of your thread is Trust issues. If he finds out that you’ve been secretly reading his messages, he might develop trust issues in regard to you! Clear to me that you should stop reading his messages.

“Not able to control it“, you wrote today in regard to secretly reading his messages. We can talk about ways for you to become able to control the compulsion perhaps, to secretly check his messages.

I am looking forward to your reply and hope to communicate with you further.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

I will reply further in the morning, but for now, regarding your intelligent question: “how do I replace N with my actual father in that parallel universe?”-

-answer:  re-associate with your feelings about your childhood experience with your father. Elaborated: a child stuck with a difficult, abusive parent dissociates best she can, pushing her distressing feelings as far down as she can, becoming minimally aware of them and therefore, minimally distressed.

The real-life child dissociates from herself.. leading to an adult with a dissociated inner child, an inner child who will not stay quiet, insisting to be heard.

You can think of these dissociated distressing feelings as ghosts looking for a body to associate with/ to enter. So, they look for a romantic partner as that body to enter (be projected into), for the purpose of finding resolution and calm. Direct those ghosts to your father so that they will leave N alone. One way to do it is in talk therapy, expressing how you felt back then in the context of your interactions with your father; another way is to journal (you can journal here, on your thread).

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

I know the frustration when it happens. Try to relax and take all the time that you need.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

I hope that you are okay with another message with afterthoughts and further development of my yesterday’s message (while it is still fresh in my mind, the reason I am posting again this morning). Please take all the time that you need to read (if you choose to read, as always) and consider things at your own pace.

First, trying to resolve childhood conflicts with parents by proxy of romantic partners in adulthood is very, very common. Somehow the sexual factor in the adult, romantic relationship does not interfere with the projection of a parent into the romantic partner.

Second, while this is happening, what I wrote right above, your adult awareness is lacking and you think and feel that the problems are all about who N is, not aware that for Hatchling.. N is your father. If and when you become aware of this, you will be able to sort of rise above the situation and tell the difference between the real-life, current universe and that parallel universe I mentioned yesterday. With that awareness, Hatchling (the inner child) will no longer be in charge. Seaturtle (the adult) will be in charge, as she should be.

Let’s look back at your very first post in July 29, 2023 (and again, I am adding the boldface feature to your words): “I fell in love for the first time October 13 2021″- the projection f your father (I’ll refer to him as F in this post) into N was made possible by you falling in love with N. If you didn’t project F into romantic partners before, it was because you were not in love with them.

“We met on Tinder, he was late for the first date… our third date he accidentally stood me up after working an all-nighter and I was absolutely devastated, and told him it was over“- it could have been on the 3rd date that the projection of F into N took hold because N stood you up (a negative experience). Your response-absolutely devastated–  suggests this to me.

“He is not afraid of commitment with me, he talks about kids, willing to be a stay at home dad or be the bread winner, whatever I want!! He is truly a stand up man, he is so kind and deeply cares for those around him“- he is all these wonderful things.. but he stood you up on the third date and the projection of F into N was in place. Thereafter, Hatchling is focusing on N’s negatives, real and imagined.

“”I don’t think we are soulmates. But we are very in love, I have been dealing with these small disconnects for a long time but they keep coming back to me. OR is this all just me running away from the most genuine and loving/caring/kind/PATIENT/ would-do-anything-for-me man ??????????????”

Hatchling’s motivation is to change F (by proxy of N) from an ingenuine, unloving/ uncaring/unkind/IMPATIENT/would-do-nothing-for-me father into the most genuine and loving/caring/kind/PATIENT/ would-do-anything-for-me father.. a soulmate.

“I really have been having this entire debate in my head for a straight 6-8 months now and I don’t want to waste my time, I want to move on or commit…  I am exhausted with this decision” (July 29, 2023).

A day after, you asked: “I definitely know I have a great base to nurture and this could be a solid relationship. But then why do I crave to have the same sense of humor and be on the same spiritual journey. Is it just my own issues you think? and leaving him would just be some trust and commitment issues flaring up and running away from something  good?” (July 30, 2023)-

– I wasn’t a participant at the time, so I didn’t try to answer your questions. After reading your 7-page second thread, I will offer you my answers:

“Why do I crave to have the same sense of humor and be on the same spiritual journey”?- the LACK you experienced in your relationship with F was so severe (think of it as close to a 0% match or fit between you and F, between what Hatchling needed and what F offered) that it created a CRAVING for the extreme opposite of this lack, which is 100% match, a 100% fit.

“Is it just my own issues you think?”- your issues which predated the relationship with N are serious enough to address and resolve. It doesn’t mean that N is perfect and has no issues. Of course he has issues, (everyone does), but don’t use his issues to.. sort of prove that the main, ongoing problems in the relationship is caused by him.

“Leaving him would just be some trust and commitment issues flaring up and running away from something  good?”- Hatchling is running away from something bad (a bad relationship with F), not from something good. (I am not mentioning your mother’s part in the complexity so to keep it simpler and because in your younger years, Hatchling’s empathy- and  stronger emotional attachment- were with her father, not with her mother).

When I say bad, I mean that to Hatchling, F was a bad experience, a person to distrust. Fast forward, Hatchling distrusts N because she projects F into him.

I want to elaborate on the complication in the situation: because you repeatedly accuse N of being unempathetic, insensitive, etc. (in between the positives that you express to him, the compliments, praise and support), he is getting fed up (I imagine/ understand), and like a self-fulfilling prophecy.. he is becoming what you repeatedly accused him of being.

You repeatedly accused him of being a bad person underneath his positive qualities (not a true accusation)=> he gets fed up and starts acting angry and mean.. rebelling against your accusations.

The result of this complication is that Hatchling is likely to say at one point something like: See what he said/ what he did, how terrible, how horrible he is.. I KNEW IT! His behaviors prove that my suspicions were true, that it was my gut telling me the truth! (I am referring to the title of this thread).

Or the result may be that he will end the relationship before you do, if you do. The reason I say “if you do” is because (1) Hatchling’s motivation- as I suggested yesterday- is to change the alleged bad N (F) into a good N (F) and (2) Seaturtle the adult suspects that.. like the title of this thread indicates, that it is fear (and wrong thinking fueled by fear) that drives her in this relationship, not gut/ not the truth in the current situation. And therefore, Seaturtle is afraid of regretting breaking up with him.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

“He doesn’t like to talk about emotions or feelings, I have to tiptoe around this, which is hard cause I do want to. He often feels good and ‘closer to me’ when we do talk about feelings but starting is super delicate“-

– it is super delicate for him because part of him is super hurt (his inner child). He doesn’t want to be made aware of the hurt, so he keeps it pushed down and he doesn’t want to bring it up by talking about it. But once he does (you must be very good at encouraging him to talk, and I am not surprised that you are), he feels better. It’s like a kid with a toothache who doesn’t want to go to the dentist because the treatment will hurt more… but after the dentist, the kid feels so much better,

“Interesting. I haven’t thought of my awareness coming from something ‘positive’ from ‘childhood.’ For some reason I felt it was negative childhood and positive adulthood that caused forced awareness after being made to feels so badly, so hurt you eventually start to wonder why. What do you think about this?”-

-(1) “so hurt you eventually start to wonder why“- imagine a child being so very, very hurt and so very, very alone with his hurt, that he is.. too hurt and too alone (no one there to listen and answer) to wonder why. Resigned to his questions being unanswered, he/ she stops asking. (This doesn’t seem the case with you or with N).

(2) “negative childhood and positive adulthood“- No childhood (and no adulthood) is all negative or all positive. As I see it, the positive part of your childhood is the part of your mother’s behavior toward you that made you feel seen. The positive parts of N’s childhood may be in that his father expressed to N that N was helping him feel better by talking to him and listening to N’s input; and his mother (taking this from her giving others the opportunity to win in that game you all played recently, instead of rushing to take the win herself)- let him win otherwise when he was growing up.. so both parents gave him a sense of personal power (vs weakness/ learned helplessness).

“After not speaking to my mom for a year, ages 16-17, my heart ached for her so much that I forced compartmentalized ‘my mom’ and ‘the woman who hurt my dad/family.‘ Also, living with my dad gave me insight as to why my mom ‘rebelled,’… I stayed with her for several months, which by the way made my dad upset…  When I stayed with my mom, we would smoke weed together… When I stayed with her for a certain amount of time I would start to feel a little unhinged, like I needed a routine. My dad’s home was very routine, he had a gym there and had all his meals planned in the fridge. By saying my dad’s home had more ‘safety’ what I really mean is consistency and routine. I would swing back and forth between my mom’s and dad’s, one with fun: takeout food, random activities, crafts, I think my mom was trying to get me to ‘like her’ again, so she just gave me whatever I wanted, this is what I meant by feeling free-er. Then the other with reliability and structure: healthy food, workouts, waking up early, no excuses for days off.

“Wow I am having a realization. I have felt this way in my life for a long time. I switch between structure/routine and impulsivity/desires. When I am in one for a certain amount of time, about 4 weeks, I CRAVE the other.. This is actually something I have felt was ‘wrong’ with me. It affects my work, I often get inspired by the structure of my job, then after too much I start to call out of work, stay home and paint/whatever craft I am currently inspired by. I have been fired by jobs because of this and told by two employers I take too much time off.. But I have yet to find a job I care enough about, I get to the point of not caring if they fire me cause I want a new routine anyway. Acting in plays, classes and improv are actually the only activities I don’t desire to cancel on or take breaks from.”-

– This is all VERY meaningful (analyzing the above quote):

“I forced compartmentalized ‘my mom’ and ‘the woman who hurt my dad/family… living with my dad gave me insight as to why my mom ‘rebelled,’“-

– children naturally compartmentalize things; it is known as the all or nothing/ black and white thinking of children (this OR that, not this AND that). Some adults keep this childhood thinking as adults: it is known as the all-or-nothing/ black-and-white category of distorted thinking (another category of distorted thinking is the emotional reasoning I mentioned earlier).

For some time, according to your black-and-white thinking, Dad was Good and Mom was Bad.. But then you figured- after living with him for a while- that Dad had some bad in him and Mom therefore was not all bad (she rebelled against.. his badness)- a maturing, balanced thinking.

“I stayed with her for several months, which by the way made my dad upset“- the traces of you in his house (his words: my house, not our- dad’s and daughter’s house) made him upset (“any trace of myself in ‘his’ house, he would get upset“), but having no trace of you (when you lived with your mom) also made him upset.. So his upset-ness about you living with your mom was not about love for you…

“When I stayed with my mom, we would smoke weed together… When I stayed with her for a certain amount of time I would start to feel a little unhinged, like I needed a routine. My dad’s home was very routine, he had a gym there and had all his meals planned in the fridge. By saying my dad’s home had more ‘safety’ what I really mean is consistency and routine“-

-Unfortunately, the routine in his home was not limited to gym and meals (it would have been wonderful if it was), but included those house cleaning sessions (“Every 3 months, not an exaggeration, we would have what he began to call ‘house cleaning”).. him complaining about the traces you left in his house and otherwise, accusing you of being ungrateful and of not attending to his needs for attention and affection.

“I would swing back and forth between my mom’s and dad’s, one with fun: takeout food, random activities, crafts, I think my mom was trying to get me to ‘like her’ again’“- your father wanted more of your attention and affection that was appropriate for a daughter to give her father, and your mother wanted your affection back. Both parents operating like children, wanting their daughter’s affection like children need their mother’s affection. So, you didn’t get to be a carefree child/ teenager in neither home.

“So she just gave me whatever I wanted, this is what I meant by feeling free-er“-

– except she didn’t (couldn’t) give you the freedom to be a care-free child to a self-reliant, emotionally mature mother.

“Then the other with reliability and structure: healthy food, workouts, waking up early, no excuses for days off“-

– and.. no excuses for being a care-free child to an emotionally self-reliant and mature father.

“Wow I am having a realization. I have felt this way in my life for a long time. I switch between structure/routine and impulsivity/desires. When I am in one for a certain amount of time, about 4 weeks, I CRAVE the other.. Acting in plays, classes and improv are actually the only activities I don’t desire to cancel on or take breaks from”-

– I think that what hatchling needs is to be a care-free child, an opportunity she didn’t have living with mom.. or with dad. I think that you get a taste of this freedom when you act in plays and do improvs.

Routine (at your father’s) that includes a bad routine will not promote self-discipline. No routine (at your mother’s) will not promote self-discipline either.

And now to the rest of yesterday’s first message: “This may be why I have such an intense desire to increase my awareness, because of the previous lack“- I think that in my case, my intense desire to increase my awareness since I was a teenager, perhaps since earlier.. was about my desperate need at the time to (rephrased now).. to parent my very emotionally immature mother.. to raise her, so to speak, so that she will be the mature, reliable, strong mother I needed her to be.

“What is really cool, is my current roommate is one of my good friends from high-school… She said I have always been very cautious of the type of people I spent my time with, shying away from toxic people…“-  severely immature parents are toxic to their children. Even if and when they try to be good parents.

Your second post of yesterday: “Does hatchling need a more nurturing partner or even none at all?“- she needs to heal from her bad experience with her two emotionally immature parents. Your partner cannot provide you with this kind of healing.

“I am doing everything I can and I still feel overwhelmed by hatchling’s responses to N“- you may need professional help, quality psychotherapy. Part of it will be learning and practicing emotion regulation skills, so to lessen that Overwhelm Factor.

“But even you have said he is the perfect partner“- well, closer to perfect than most, in my estimation, from the totality of what you shared,

“so why is it so hard for me to feel safe and rested“- my answer: because outside your time acting in plays, doing improvs and certain other activities, you need more of the care-free child experience.. Hatchling needs it. She needs to feel that there is someone strong and mature that she can rely on.

N cannot be that strong and mature person for her.

“Wanting to run away now is a similar feeling to when I would want to run away from my dad”- hatchling wants to run away to a place where she can be (I am repeating myself, I know) a care free child, a state of mind possible when and where there is someone mature and strong, self-reliant and not so needy- to depend on.

Your most recent post of today: “So is the answer through the relationship?“- no, like I wrote above: the answer is outside the relationship. N is not your therapist. He couldn’t possibly be your therapist even if he was a professional therapist because the therapeutic relationship is not possible for two people who are involved with each other in a romantic (and sexual) relationship.

“I started to have this feeling about a year into the relationship but the past year has been the ‘8 months my mind hasn’t rested’ (the title of my first forum). Does ending this cycle require me to be alone with hatchling more? or to actually spend more time with N to build trust?“-

– ending this cycle aka healing requires that for as long as you stay in a relationship with N, that you completely give up on the expectation that he becomes the .. strong, mature parent that you did not have. He can not succeed in this role long-term (beyond making you feel good for a moment here and there). He is not your Answer.

Trusting him to be the parent that you need will lead to ongoing frustration on your part and on his. It’s a misplaced, inappropriate trust.. similar perhaps to.. your father’s misplaced, inappropriate trust or expectation that you will be.. the strong, mature and attentive mother that he didn’t have.

“For example, like I mentioned in my post, November 4, 2023 at 1:33 pm… The next morning feeling so delicate, it really felt like he kicked me while I was down by texting me so coldly, when I asked when we were meeting for lunch he says ‘I ate lunch at 10am lol”, like this message is such a brush off and the “lol,” like does he have zero sensitivity?'”-

-Objectively, this is what happened: you asked him: When are we meeting for lunch? and he answered: I ate lunch at 10am lol.

The rest in the quote above is how you felt/ your subjective experience: “feeling so delicate, it really felt like he kicked me while I was down.. so coldly… such a brush off.. zero sensitivity“.

Back to what happened objectively, the way I understand it: he was hungry at 10 am so he ate. Maybe it crossed his mind that you wouldn’t like it, but he brushed it off saying to himself something like: no matter what I do or don’t, I get in trouble with Seaturtle anyway.. so I’m going to eat now.  He later inserted an lol into the text so to make light of things, so  to .. lighten up your expected heavy overreaction.

As a matter of fact, he recently told you that you were bringing him down.. down with your heavy overreactions…? Maybe he is angry at you for feeling like he has to walk on eggshells, that any little misdeed or perceived misdeed can cause a bomb to go off.

Back to your subjective experience of what happened: “feeling so delicate, it really felt like he kicked me while I was down.. so coldly… such a brush off.. zero sensitivity“- what if you, in this incident, are expressing zero sensitivity to him: not being sensitive to how difficult it is for him to walk on eggshells?

“I do not understand this lack of empathy and sensitivity from him and this honestly just triggered another panic attack… THEN the next evening, Sunday night, he was to come over for dinner and he was an hour late! Just kicked again while I was down”-

– maybe he was an hour late because he overworked. You said that it is difficult for him not to answer calls in regard to his business. And maybe he is getting angry with you and is giving up on the idea (and your expectation) that it is possible for him to NOT trigger you.

“Honestly I literally felt like he just wanted me to be cold like his mother, but if he is going to try to put me into that box I want to be far away from him”- N is a nice, hard working young man who is being mistaken for some other person (your father). What if you are putting him into that box, the box of being cold like your father…?

“I haven’t talked to him about the CALLOUS text messages or being late, on top of everything that had just happened!” – N is not CALLOUS (but may be in the process of becoming callous with you). It’s your father who was and is CALLOUS with you. Think of this, if you will: there is a real-life universe and an alternate, or a parallel universe. Hatchling used to live in a real-life universe: her childhood, when she was a real-life child.

Currently, hatchling is living in a parallel universe where N is her father: an immature parent who is unempathetic, cold and callous.

“with love, hatchling and possibly Seaturtle in defense of her“- hatchling needed defending in that real-life universe of her childhood. But because for her (as it is for any inner child), there is no distinction between past and present, she is now living, to a great extent, in a parallel universe where N is her father. Hatchling has unfinished business with her father and she is- and has been trying for a long while-  trying to resolve this unfinished business by proxy of N (using N as a substitute for her father) by either turning her father into an empathetic, sensitive, attentive good father,  OR leaving him.. breaking up with him.

anita