Dear Beni

 Maybe there’s someone who’s afraid to skate in the park and I notice it. I go to the person and I talk with her about it and let her know he/she’s welcome.

Well done you for a) being perceptive about another human being that you do not know & b)  the willingness to approach & offer help.  Imagine if all humans acted in that way what a kind & peaceful world we would live in.

Roberta

Hi Beni,

I think I was strong for my mom. My mom tells me that I was really intense.

In what sense were you intense?

I think you had a simillar struggle if I remember right.

Well, I always tried to console my mother, i.e. explain why she shouldn’t be so negative, why things are not so bad as she sees them (and I never succeeded). But that was already when I was an adolescent and in my early 20s. As a child, I wanted approval, I was a good kid, a good pupil. But I never got approval, e.g. I was never praised for my good grades. Instead, I was scolded if I got a B instead of an A. So I was supposed to be perfect.

I also don’t remember super much. It’s hard to differentiate between analyzis and expirience.

Do you remember at least something from your childhood? Do you remember more from your teenage years?

I notice that I’m cold to my mom when I feel vulnerable like I do not send emojis then. I don’t trust that she can handle it then. Like she would get high on it.

I think I was strong for my mom.

Okay, so when you feel vulnerable, you don’t have the compulsion to please her, to “console” her, to make her less sad, right? Because I am guessing (based on what you said about her earlier) that she tends to complain a lot and would like to receive sympathy from you. And she would “get high” on it, i.e. it would only confirm her martyr stance, right? But you don’t want to take part in that game of her playing the martyr, and so you are cold with her. You are not giving her sympathy, right?

When you say that as a child you were strong for her, maybe it means that you didn’t want to express your own sadness or upset, not to bother her with it? Because she was burdened with her own stuff anyway. Maybe that’s when you rather smashed the window, or hit your own head, or got in tension with your younger brother?

So she wasn’t able to meet your emotional needs, and then you suppressed those needs in front of her, but then acted out in different ways, like smashing the window, having tension with your brother and suchlike. Is that what happened?

You know what Gabor sais, it’s what’s not there. Empathy and the ability to express how you feel, really listen with the heart. I do not remember my parents doing that.

Yeah, “what is not there”. It’s emotional neglect. What you’ve experienced from your parents is probably emotional neglect. Your mother didn’t have the capacity to soothe you, to regulate your emotions, because she couldn’t do that for herself either. And you say your father was rarely home, and I guess not really emotionally available (even when he was home)?

BTW how did your parents react to you smashing the window, getting in tension with your brother etc?

Telling me how they feel or having these moments of connection much. Even nowadays it’s difficult and often I create it. I meet people who tell their parents are like their best friend and that’s how I imagine is how it can feel when you can express yourself both ways.

Well, when we are children, we are “takers” – we need our parents to emotionally soothe us and be there for us (not the other way round). And that’s how the emotional bond is established. So we are takers, we receive, and they give. They give us love, support, care, understanding.

At least that’s how it should be, with healthy parents. But often our parents are not emotionally healthy and mature, and they’re not able to meet our emotional needs. Your parents were like that too (and mine too).

For people who had healthy parents, they have established that emotional bond of trust and unconditional love, which is always there. And so as grown-ups, they can share everything with their parents: their worries, dilemmas, whatever is on their heart…  and their parents will be there to listen and help if they can. With no judgment, no blaming, no manipulation.

And indeed, those parents are their children’s best friends. But that’s rare, or at least it’s not too frequent. According to some studies, around 50% of children in the USA are securely attached, i.e. have that secure emotional bond with their parents. And maybe that’s even too high of an estimate, I don’t know.  So probably at least 50% of people you see around don’t have that bond…

Mhh, yeah I do that and it seems to be wholesome. I still think the mentioned situation is in a way superfiscial but honest and authentic. It often feels not deep enough.
I feel that I long for a partner.

It’s a different level. Being kind to a stranger in the park is not the same as opening up to someone in all your vulnerability. In that sense it is “superficial”. But it is serving a purpose of you being true to yourself and doing acts of kindness – something that your heart is telling you to do. As you say, it’s honest and authentic. So it counts. But it’s a different level, of course.

I think love couldn’t be received emotionally by my parents as much as I needed it or was toxic when given.

Yes, it seems they couldn’t provide that emotional support for you. Perhaps they weren’t abusive (e.g. criticizing you harshly, or shaming you and humiliating you), but they simply didn’t pay attention to your emotional needs. So yeah, it would be emotional neglect.

Yeah, that’s what I want most in live. So, simple. Thanks for the support Tee ,<3

You are very welcome, Beni! <3

Hey Beni,

I have been trying to understand the dynamic with your mother, and so far my impression was that she used you to meet her emotional needs, because that’s what you said in the beginning of your thread:

[I asked you this] So she maybe used you to meet her emotional needs, because her husband was emotionally unavailable? (Perhaps she complained to you about your father or other problems in her life?) That can put a big stress on the child, because the roles are reversed, and instead of meeting our emotional needs, the parent expects us to meet their emotional needs, which we as a child are totally unable to.

[You replied this] Yes, I belief this is it. I met her a week ago and I saw it in her eyes.

In your latest post you say she didn’t complain to you directly:

I think she did not complain to me in a direct way. It would rather be that it’s kinda dependent if the kitchen is in order and that I needed to do what she said else she could loose it. Like she needs an illusion of control.

From this, it more seems like she complained about you, i.e. was displeased with you, when you didn’t clean the kitchen or didn’t do what she told you to do? And then she would “lose it”, you say.

Does it mean she would get angry with you, start yelling etc? Or she would start pitying herself, saying something like “No one ever helps me around here. Why can’t you do what I’ve asked you to? Why is everybody so ungrateful when I am doing so much for this family?”

Or perhaps both? Maybe she would be angry that you didn’t do what she told you to do, and then she would start pitying herself, complaining about her life, perhaps about being disrespected and not cared about by you (and your father and brother)?

Because my mother was like that – she was strict with me and expected obedience (and I was mostly obedient), but still, in my puberty and adolescence I wasn’t too eager to help in the household. So she would use that to criticize me and then to present herself as a martyr. In fact, she would use every opportunity to pity herself and blame someone for her misery, because she always had complaints about other people, specially about me, my father and my father’s side of the family.

Like she needs an illusion of control.

My mother too, she liked to boss me and my father around. She was strict and behaved a little bit like a tyrant within our small family. But to the rest of the world, she presented herself like a meek, nice woman. But within our four walls, she definitely was abusing power.

I wonder if your mother was abusing power with you, but perhaps was weak with your father?

My father was a people pleaser, so she could do that with him. But you said that your father was more black-and-white and colder (My dad and brother are more black and white and colder). Perhaps that means that he didn’t really care about her complaints and didn’t try to please her? (and that your brother is similar?)

I just had a similar situation with her lately. Where she would say I need to do something right now! And I couldn’t do it. I’d just sat and looked at her. I’d have needed to hear her feelings to understand why it was so important and needed to be done right now. I did not understand. She said sorry after and I told her that in a case of emergency I need more information. I can’t take it if it’s being pushed around.

I understand. You don’t want to be bossed around. Perhaps you were bossed around as a child, and sometimes you tolerated it (because you wanted to please your mother), but at other times you disobeyed and smashed something, hit your own head, etc. Was that the dynamic between you and your mother?

It’s good that you can now say No to her bossing you around, and that she actually apologized for treating you like that. So it seems that she is getting more insight into her behavior and that therapy is actually helping her…

You also said in the beginning of your thread:

I’d reject my mothers kisses and hugs.

I wonder if she was eager to give you hugs and kisses when you were well behaved, when you were a “good boy” and did everything she told you to? But maybe you felt those were conditional, because she didn’t really care about you and your emotional needs? She only liked you when you were obedient?

What do you think about daydreaming or imagine future situations, feelings are often included?

Well, I know daydreaming can be maladaptive, like when we do it to escape our painful reality (because in that imagined future we feel good, we feel loved, and so we escape our grim emotions).

But imagining future situations – e.g. envisioning what you would like your future to look like – can also be a good thing. If it’s not an escape, but something you actually believe you can achieve.

Thanks for the word <3

You are welcome! <3

Hi Beni,

Maybe my Das is involved too.

So far you haven’t talked about your father too much. How was he involved? Was he the one who sent you to your room when you were misbehaving?

Based on your latest post (and all the previous ones 🙂 ), I am starting  to form an idea of the kind of dynamic you had with your mother. But I would like to hear also about your interaction with your father, if you would like to share.

You haven’t been talking much about your father. If I may ask. What is your relationship to men these days? Is there a sex which company you value more.

My father was a people pleaser and basically, my mother’s enabler. He himself hasn’t abused me, but he didn’t do much to protect me from her criticism and harsh treatment. And he always tried to appease her, so to maintain the “peace” in the family.

I never had prejudice against men, though I didn’t like men who resembled (physically) to my father. Luckily, I found a good husband and we have been happily married for many years now, although we did have our ups and downs. But our relationship grew and got stronger over time. So I am pretty happy with that aspect of my life.

When I talk about envisioning the future it’s more conscious.

Yes, I believe the same.

There are many teachers saying that you imagine something to make it happen. I think there is a right and a wrong way to do it. Like when I observe myself:

I Imagine possibilities and opportunities, goals and it feels good. Also I kinda experience it in my head, feel the good feelings as if I archived it and it’s as if I did it and don’t need to do it anymore.

Interesting. So when imagining it, you feel good about it in the moment, but then you feel that you sort of “ticked the box” and you actually let go of that dream? You don’t engage it any more?

Sometimes there is the experience of no perspective which I usually try to overcome.

So sometimes you try to imagine your future, but you feel without perspective? Does it mean that nothing comes up that would excite you as your possible future?

Lately I thought and felt that maybe that’s the place which is peaceful and grounded in the moment. It feels like it’s a burden to keep ties with the future and all it’s ways and keeps me from meeting higher needs.

It seems that sometimes there is a certain burden and heaviness when you try to envision your future. It feels easier not to envision anything, but to only focus on the present moment, because staying in the now feels peaceful and grounded. Is that what you’re saying?

keeps me from meeting higher needs.

What do you consider to be your higher needs?

Hey Beni,

How is your back?

my back is fine, thanks for asking. The worsening that I experienced about a month or so, has now passed, and I am back to my baseline, which is a low-grade pain but manageable. I am fine with this status and not really focusing on being pain-free, because it seems like something I cannot control. So this is good enough…

And how is your back?

Mhh, my Dad was in Hospital as a child for one week and his mom couldn’t see him. I think that created some kind of void and he needs my mom and his job for it and my mom needs my dad.

He can’t really say how he feels. Lately he said he was depressed for a decade in his 40ies. He would just say he’s alright all the time. My mom would always want to know how our day was or his day at work and we did not really wanna answer.

my mother would struggle to stand up for herself and when she tried my father, brother (and I’m not shure if I did. Cause I’m more like her than my Dad) would put her back to her place in a way. Because she would be emotional and it would not make sense in a logic way.

When she was emotional he kinda put her back to her place. Like when you need empathy and you get logic.

Okay, it seems your father wasn’t really good at expressing emotions, while your mother wanted emotional intimacy. That’s why she would ask him how his day was etc. But it seems he wasn’t attuned to her (or his own) emotional needs, e.g. perhaps he failed to notice when she was sad or there is a problem. Her emotional states were “invisible” for him, which in practical terms means he lacked empathy for her.

She probably felt unseen and was stuffing her hurt for a while, until she could no longer bear it. That’s when she would break down and start crying. A trigger for that could be if the kitchen was in a mess. In those moments, she probably felt that no one cares about her, no one “sees” her, and she would react with anger at you, ordering you to do something ASAP (perhaps a chore or something).

But it was out of character for her, because she wasn’t a bossy person. She wasn’t a strict, authoritative parent. But sometimes, when she was desperate (believing that no one cares about her), she would lose it, and that’s when she acted angrily and “bossy”. You said it felt “like she needs an illusion of control“.

It seems she didn’t have much control in your family, she was suppressing her needs. Or when she expressed it, your father would dismiss her complaints (When she was emotional he kinda put her back to her place.). But sometimes she couldn’t bear it any longer and that’ when she would break down, start crying and/or become bossy with you.

Maybe when she would finally express her needs, it would be from the position of a victim, like “why don’t you ever see how I am suffering?”, or “why can’t you do xyz for me, but let me do everything by myself?” Like, blaming your father (and you and your brother) for not being caring enough or sensitive enough, or for not helping her enough?

My mom would always want to know how our day was or his day at work and we did not really wanna answer. It didn’t feel right. It was/is often a too open a question and doesn’t feel save to reply. It’s in someway food for something unwholesome. When you don’t listen but project yourself on the reply it can be painful to the replier.

Perhaps you felt that she wasn’t really asking how your day was because she was sincerely interested, but because she was looking for an opportunity to start talking about herself and her issues and her problems. Since she never felt heard and seen, she needed to “steal” those opportunities from you. She wanted to force you to listen to her. But you didn’t want it, because it was a burden for you (and indeed too much for a child) to act as an emotional support for your mother.

In fact, I am thinking now that perhaps she had an unmet childhood need to be seen and appreciated. Maybe she felt like no one cares about her. And so she was trying to get love and appreciation from her husband and her children. But that’s impossible because our unmet childhood needs are like a bottomless pit – they cannot be met by anyone but ourselves. They can only be met via healing.

So if she was expecting her husband and specially her children to meet that unmet need, I can imagine it led to frustration on both sides.

Your father, as the adult, could in theory have had the capacity to “see” her, to give her the appreciation she craved for (except in practice, he didn’t have the capacity because of his own wounds). But you, as her child, definitely didn’t have the capacity to meet her emotional needs. You needed her to meet your needs, not vice versa.

That’s probably why you rejected her hugs and kisses – because you felt she is hugging you to meet her own need (Or needed it herself. It’s like taking a hug.)  She might have hugged you when she felt unloved, hoping you would give her what she is missing. But you felt it – you felt that her hugs were not for you, but for her.

But you also had some empathy for her – you didn’t want to always reject her, unlike your father and brother (My dad and brother are more black and white and colder).

So perhaps you had some feeling of guilt when rejecting her? Perhaps that’s why you nowadays struggle with ambivalence in certain situations:

[I said this:] It sounds like if you don’t do things others expect from you (or you believe they expect), you fear that the person might feel rejected, and it causes you pain. And you feel helpless because you don’t want to hurt them, but at the same time, you don’t want to do it either. So you are conflicted. You feel ambivalence, and perhaps you freeze in that neither-nor state, not wanting to do it, but not able to reject it either.

[you replied this:] What you write is very close to how I feel. Yeah, this impulse confuses me and it is a challenge to bear.

The above sounds the same as the conflict you had with regard to your mother: feeling guilty for rejecting her, but also not being able, or not wanting to, give her what she needed, because it went against your own needs, or because it felt inauthentic to you.

If we lift it to a higher level, it might mean that you are not able to clearly express your NO (towards the things you don’t want in life), but also unable to clearly express your YES (for the things you do want in life).

So perhaps that’s why you have issues with envisioning what you want? Because there is a subconscious fear that you would be harming someone else (your mother) if you actually allowed yourself to go after your true desires?

Okay, I’ll stop here. I made a lot of assumptions while putting this together, so there might be a lot of misses. But anyway, this is my current theory of your family dynamic. Let me know what you think and if it resonates… (corrections very welcome!)

Hi Beni,

happy to hear from you! Yeah it’s been a long time, but I am glad you’re fine, both your back and that you bought a new laptop 🙂

My back seems to be alright. I don’t really understand it sure it’s there I think i couldn’t do a full time construction job.

Really happy to hear this! That means you don’t even feel it for the most part, right? Are you still skating? And yeah, better not try full-time construction job, because that would for sure aggravate it.

My back is a little better too, thank God. But now my knee problem got reactivated, after having been dormant for 1.5 years (since my back injury). I hope it stays manageable and doesn’t escalate, specially now, before the summer holidays.

Wow, you make a big effort to put all the things together. … It touches me and at the same time feels far away from this moment.

I often felt like this is made up and I’m in a way justifying something I should rather confront. While I’m replying I had an encounter with my mom and I see it quite clear that it’s real.

Thank you, and you are welcome! It seems that at the time you started writing your reply, the explanation I offered sounded plausible, but you couldn’t feel it “in your bones”, so to speak. It felt emotionally distant, right? As if it didn’t affect you?

But then, as you were writing your reply, you had an encounter with your mother, and then you felt it emotionally? You felt the emotional dynamic between you and your mother, and that it is real. That it’s not just some theory that doesn’t apply to you. Am I guessing this right?

I think this pretty much hits the nail on the head. Thank you for writing it up.

You are welcome. And I am glad that you feel it’s more or less true for you.

By not expressing myself I protect my Mom from worrying or meet her need for control.

Can you give me an example of something you’d like to express to her, but you worry that she will worry and will try to talk you out of it? (and thus control you)?

If she makes a request and I’m not shure that it’s selfless I can’t do it.

Can you give me an example of a request she makes on you, which you deem as not selfless, and then you can’t do it?

Only if you’d like to share, of course…