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  • #431823
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I know that I am behaving like I don’t learn from my mistakes Tee please forgive me.

    I am sorry you are suffering so much, and I am not judging you at all. I know how it is to do things that are self-destructive, or against our best interests, but to keep doing them still, to not be able to stop. It’s like an addiction, it’s stronger than us.

    The thing is I know better but I have a lot of pride and I can’t seem to let go of it. I don’t want to give her the satisfaction of believing that she was right all along.

    It is like the saying “Imagine being bitten by a snake and instead of trying to help yourself heal and recover from the poison, you’re trying to catch the snake to find out the reason it bit you and prove to it that you didn’t deserve that.” I can’t seem to be able to get myself out of that mindset.

    Okay, so you are aware that she is like a snake, but you still have the urge to prove it to her that you didn’t deserve to be bitten – that you are a good person, right?

    Because she is portraying you as a bad person, as an abuser, and you want to prove it to her that she is wrong. So I guess you want to prove it to her that you are a good, loving person. That your intentions are pure, right?

    EVEN IF I WAS LYING, THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE MY INTENTIONS. That is what I hate the most.

    Okay, so you want to prove it – to her – that your intentions are pure. I see a theme, the main striving of yours: to prove that you are a good person and that your intentions are pure. Would that be true?

    Even though she is so wrong, she hit my ego really really hard and I don’t like it. She has successfully hit me where I am most vulnerable.

    But she is hitting me hard where it hurts the most and idk how to deal with it. The way she describes everything just makes me question my reality and doubt everything I have done and it is driving me further into depression cause everything I did and trying to do seems pointless.

    It seems to me that the place you are most vulnerable is believing (at least a part of you believes it) that you are bad. That you are an abuser. That you cause other people pain. And that’s exactly one of your false core beliefs, which we’ve identified before: “I am the source of pain for others.”

    So the dynamic is: one part of you (your inner child) believes he is a source of pain for others. And he is trying to prove that he isn’t. He is trying to prove that he is a good, loving boy, with pure intentions, and that he doesn’t want to hurt anybody.

    The problem is that he is trying to prove that to people who lack empathy and understanding. People who are unable to understand. People who refuse to listen. People who are accusing him, instead of seeing how hurtful their behavior is.

    And who are these people? B. And your parents.

    So that’s what you are dealing with, Paradoxy. A childhood wound that you are trying to heal with the wrong means.

    As you said, you have been wounded (by a snake), and instead of tending to the wound, you are trying to catch the snake and prove it to her that you didn’t deserve to be bitten. That you are a good guy, with pure intentions, who doesn’t want to cause her pain.

    Does the snake listen, is she trying to understand? No, she bites you once again… and again… finding more and more “proofs” how bad and insincere you are.

    And so, by engaging with the snake, your inner child gets wounded more and more. With each interaction, he gets a confirmation of his false belief: that he causes pain to others.

    That’s why this is happening:

    The way she describes everything just makes me question my reality and doubt everything I have done and it is driving me further into depression cause everything I did and trying to do seems pointless.

    Exactly. Because in the interaction with the snake, the wound of your inner child gets deeper. And it causes you to feel even more helpless and depressed.

    So what’s the way out? You need to tend to the wound of your inner child, properly. Which means: you need to stop interacting with the snake. Stop wanting any kind of validation from her. Get away from her. There is nothing she can give you except injuring you even more.

    Can you see that?

    And then you need to start healing your inner child. Which means: start loving yourself. Start having empathy and compassion for yourself – something that neither your parents or B had.

    You need to give yourself empathy, rather than seek empathy from people who are unable to give it.

    How does this sound?

     

    #431779
    Tee
    Participant

    * correction in the first sentence: that her lying and deception about her ex

    #431778
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I’d like to comment on some of your thoughts, because it seems you believe that your lying and deception about her ex is the same as you lying about having received a message from you high school crush.

    She is referring to my high school crush incident that I shared with you which unfortunately looks like I lied, from her perspective.

    Let’s see: you received a message from your high school crush and family friend (a girl named Pryanka, right?), practically flirting with you because she asked you if you cook, and when you said only pasta and noodles, she said you should cook for her some day. You declined the offer and deleted the entire conversation because you didn’t want to be unfaithful to B:

    one of my crushes from high school (who is a family friend so we still talk) asked me about how college life was and whether I cook and stuff and I told her that I cook simple meals like pasta and noodles and she told me that I should cook for her one day. I obviously declined that offer. B saw those messages and couple days later asked me about what I would do if a female asked me to cook for her. And my stupid self completely forgot about the conversation with the girl as I had decided to keep her out of my life by deleting everything related to her (including that conversation).

    So by deleting that conversation, your intention was to remove even the slightest possibility that you would get tempted by this girl. Your intention was to be 100% faithful to B, with no distractions and no temptations. You lied to B about it because you didn’t even want to make it a topic of discussion, since you in your mind and heart were resolute not to engage in it and to nip in the bud. Would you agree with that?

    B on the other hand lied to you about being in a situation where cheating with her ex was highly likely, because they both had feelings for each other, and they were living under the same roof. So her lying was to hide the ongoing cheating, or a possibility for cheating – her lying was to hide a potential foul play. Whereas your lying was to not even start the entire topic, because it was a non-issue for you, and you didn’t have the slightest intention to cheat.

    Can you see the difference in those two cases of lying? She lied with the intention to hide a potential foul play, while you lied because you wanted to spare her of jealousy and worry, since you knew that there would have been no basis for her jealousy and worry (because you were 100% faithful). And perhaps you lied also to spare yourself of her false accusations.

    So those were two totally different categories of lying, with a different intent.

    But she made them equal. She equated her foul intention (to possibly cheat) with your pure intention (not to upset her about something that is a non-issue).

    There was another situation, where she too unfairly accused you of lying and possibly cheating, just because you confided in your close friend about fighting with her:

    She had told me not to tell my only other close friend that we broke up, but in a weak emotional moment, I told him that we were fighting. She found out and she told me that I lied to her and made her look like a fool. She also said that if I am able to hide her from my parents for two years, then I can also hide a “bitch” from her too (implying that I would cheat).

    This is another such outrageous twisting of the truth, where she equated your inability to hide the truth from your friend with deceptive lying (which she was a master of). And then she had the audacity to further escalate it and accuse you of potential cheating as well.

    You see? She equated your inability to hide the truth with her lying and twisting of the truth – as if those were the same categories.

    Where they are completely opposite. In fact, according to the Bible (and common ethics), the former is not a sin, whereas the latter is a sin.

    She was equating your non-sinful lying (which would be equal to saying a white lie) with her sinful, deceptive lying. And then saying “we both lied”, “we are equal”. Whereas this cannot be further from the truth.

     

    #431758
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    lovely to hear from you again!

    There is definitely a lot less pressure in this relationship which I like. She is in a similar position – likes where things are going and happy to see where it leads

    Okay, so she seems interested in a long-term, committed relationship, possibly ending in marriage? Have you talked about marriage, kids and the possible time frame for that?

    I do find myself trying to leave the door open for deeper discussions a lot and she doesn’t really seem to want to engage in that. This is probably my only red flag I’ve noticed … eventually things will need to be spoken about, like exes etc.

    recently I have just felt like I don’t fully connect with people even though I do try too, conversations can be hard at times.

    It seems you would like to talk about your feelings more (perhaps even about how you felt with your ex), but she isn’t open to that? Do you feel that you can’t really share if you are upset about someone or something, because she doesn’t seem to be  interested? Like, she doesn’t show empathy or even a willingness to listen?

    So maybe you would like to connect on a deeper level with her, as your special person, but she isn’t very receptive?

    I find myself wanting to go back into a comfort zone of just smoking weed and being by myself. Not sure what the reason behind it is though.

    I can understand that not being seen and understood – not being able to share emotional intimacy – can be hurtful for you. And so that would trigger the need to self-medicate with weed.

    I encourage you to acknowledge the need for emotional intimacy as a legitimate need. So your need is not bad. But perhaps she is not able to partake in that kind of intimacy? Maybe she is afraid of emotional vulnerability?

    When you talk with her, is she a happy-go-lucky person, who doesn’t want to talk about “heavier” topics, and so you feel she can’t understand you and empathize with you?

     

    #431755
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I’d like to comment on something else she said in her letter:

    You don’t tell me I’m beautiful, but you will let a stranger on the internet know that. You don’t make me feel wanted. … You may have been my boyfriend, but there were certain areas of me that needed you, and you ignored those.

    It seems like she didn’t feel wanted by you, while she has the need to feel wanted. So she fulfilled that need by being in the company of men who desired her, who lusted after her. Right there she admitted what I told you earlier in my analysis.

    So she wanted to be desired by you. But you said you didn’t want to have sex with her after you found out that she prostituted herself. Around that same time you also found out that the guy in the half-naked photo was her ex, who was living as her housemate.

    After she dropped those two “bombshell” news on you, no wonder you didn’t want to have sex with her anymore:

    But ever since finding out what happened, the pain and sorrow never left me. The inner turmoil I felt was eating me up from the inside. I no longer wanted to have sex with her. I feel disgusted. I hated myself. I hated the pain. I wish I could just die. Though we continued to date, nothing was ever normal again despite trying my best to.

    Your reaction was normal. How can you appreciate and be intimate with a woman who sold herself for money, and who was lying to you about her involvement with her ex. You cannot. But she was blaming you for that – as if you suddenly and for no reason at all stopped desiring her. She saw herself as the victim, completely disregarding the causes of you turning cold towards her.

    I just wanted to mention this, because I think it showcases how she was blaming you for your reactions, without acknowledging her own actions – her own bad behavior, which led you to react the way you did.

    But it is extremely difficult for me to knock some sense into her, as she does not have the patience to listen and arguing with her is a waste of my energy.

    A person who doesn’t want to admit their own mistakes and be accountable for their actions behaves like she does. You can’t reach them. And they turn everything around: they blame you for being upset about their bad behavior. That’s what she has been doing to you.

    Why does it seem like she is not even aware though? Like even in the long message she sent, she appears to not even be aware that she is the one acting like a victim and blaming me.

    She doesn’t want to be aware. There are people who always blame others and never take responsibility for their own actions. She seems to be one of them.

    There is no point in arguing with such people. The only way is to let them go.

    In some languages, there is a saying “The smarter one gives up first” (as in, gives up fighting, gives up arguing). That’s what you should do with her – give up trying to make her understand. Give up arguing. Let her go.

    And refrain from replying to her letter, because it will be futile, and you’ll risk getting entangled in another round of pointless, exhausting arguments (that are aimed at blaming you and portraying you as the bad guy).

     

    #431741
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    She is not in need of money as of right now, so does that mean she still wanted my validation?

    I don’t think so, since she has already moved onto someone else:

    I just found out that she already started flirting with a guy who she knew in high school and he expressed that he has some feelings for her already. And she told him that she is healing from a relationship that ended FEW months ago.

    And she is already twisting the truth to the new guy, telling him you broke up a few months ago, which is not true, because you broke up beginning of April, right? (and you stayed broken up only because you refused to reconcile, right?)

    So she is already feeding the new guy a re-touched version of the story, according to which she is “healing”, presenting herself as the victim of her ex’s (your) abuse.

    And besides, she made it clear in this letter that she doesn’t want anything from you, she wished you a “good life”. So she knows she can’t get anything from you anymore. However, she doesn’t want to come out of this fight as a loser, as a defeated one. She wants to kick you one last time (They were not all slaps, they were different types of hits, like an elbow to the face when she opens the door or something, and the next time she kicks me in the shin while walking).

    I see this letter as her “parting gift”, in which she repeats once again all of her “grievances” against you, and blames you for her own actions. A letter where she presents herself as the victim, and you as her abuser. And she managed to achieve her goal, because you are again doubting yourself, thinking that what if it’s all your fault:

    But reading her messages make me feel like maybe she is right, maybe I am the problem overall.

    I don’t want to be the cause of her pain

    She has been falsely accusing you all this time, making you believe that you are the cause of her pain. That you are harming her, when in fact, she was harming you. The pain she caused you with her lies and deceptions (and false accusations) is much bigger than what you caused her by trumpeting your parents’ false beliefs about women.

    So if you are looking at the bigger picture – which you should, rather than focusing on details and technicalities – she is not your victim, but you are her victim. And she is trying to turn that around: turn the truth upside down, and present herself as the victim.

    I don’t want to be the cause of her pain but I don’t see any other option but to leave.

    I hope that you’re not entertaining the thought of reconciling again? I thought that chapter is closed, and frankly, I wouldn’t like to keep convincing you that you should stay away from her, and why.

    So I do hope you can start moving on, i.e. start healing and learning from your mistakes.

     

    #431738
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Dafne,

    If I was sad, I had to get over it & stop being so sensitive about it. My only coping mechanism was to shut down & find solace in my solitude.

    I am sorry, Dafne, it is very hard when you have no one to confide in, no one to understand how you are feeling.

    I stayed for too long. I felt frozen. I felt that there was no way out & that there is nothing better out there in this scarry world. And fear was my only companion.

    You concluded those things based on your childhood experience: an abusive and neglectful father, and a mother who is pushing you to love him. No wonder world seemed like a scary place, because you didn’t have anyone to protect you and to understand you. You were lacking a basic sense of safety, which is one of our existential needs. Perhaps you didn’t lack physical safety as much as emotional  safety – to have someone to understand you and empathize with you and validate your feelings.

    The same old fear comes back to me when I think that I ruined my chances with the man I’ve met at the church outing.

    This fear would then be the fear of staying alone and left to struggle with your emotions alone, never be seen for who you are as a person, never be soothed that things will be okay and that someone has your back. It seems like both the need for physical and emotional safety, right? Which you are looking for in a man, in a romantic partner.

    Those are all our basic childhood needs, which if we don’t have met, do cause us a great deal of fear and anxiety in our adult life. We believe we need a partner to meet those needs, when in fact we need ourselves and a good therapist to help us along the way.

    Somehow I still keep thinking of what did go wrong and if not contacting him first, contributed to his decision?

    You actually did contact him and sent him a video, if I remember well, but he never responded to that. So it wasn’t the lack of your initiative that made him pull away, but probably he wasn’t “feeling it” with you, which he felt with that other woman. It’s not about you not doing enough, you can be sure about that.

    But I understand how the fear of staying alone is making you believe that you didn’t do enough, that if only you had written a few more messages, he would have shown interest in you. That’s not true – it’s your fear speaking. Fear of staying alone and not having those basic needs met.

    Yes, Tee, most of my relatives passed away, and unfortunately, there is no one now to really listen.

    This holiday felt quite lonely. I’m still taking care of my elderly and feel guilty leaving them. Talking to my mother seems pointless at this stage. It always ends up in some kind of argument and pointing all my past mistakes. I also realised that she feels quite comfortable with my current situation.

    I am sorry, Dafne, that none of your living relatives can really understand and support you. I am not surprised your mother is unable to do that. She is in fact invalidating your feelings and forcing you to go against them – forcing you to be kind to your mean father. So don’t even aspect any kind of empathy from her.

    And yeah, I can imagine it suits her to have you stay single and take care of her (if that’s what you are doing for her?). And who are the other elderly, that you need to take care of, if I may ask?

    So it looks like I am on a good path to healing, I am aware and I know that I need to work on my self worth more. But at the same time I feel stuck again and can’t find an exit.

    It’s great that you are aware that you need to work on your self-esteem. But what is also important is to be aware of those basic childhood emotional needs (the need to be seen, appreciated, your emotions validated, also the need to be seen as special and important), that you need to meet, at least to a certain extent, before you can actually have a healthy relationship.

    Basically, you would need to meet the needs of your inner child. Perhaps till now, you have been identifying with your inner child – the part of you which is scared, feels helpless and needs others to save her. And you were looking for a partner, who would fulfill the role of the loving, caring parent – whom you didn’t have as a child.

    But now, the goal would be to stop identifying with the inner child, but to strengthen the adult part of you, who isn’t so helpless but can actually do something to help yourself. The more you feel capable of changing your life, the more chance you have to be happy and even find a healthy partner in the future.

    But the focus right now should not be on finding a partner, but on strengthening your adult self and soothing your inner child. In other words, on meeting some of your basic needs.

    For example, if you feel that you are stuck in the caretaker role for others ( I’m still taking care of my elderly and feel guilty leaving them.), and that you are neglecting your own needs, the goal would be to start paying more attention to your own needs and reject some of those requests if they take a toll on you.

    The goal would be to learn how to set boundaries and say “I can do this for you, but I won’t be able to do that.” Basically, learning to set boundaries, the same as you are learning in the relationship with your father.

    Setting boundaries and respecting your own needs (both physical and emotional) is a way to become more anchored in the adult self, and less in the helpless child self.

    So I would suggest learning about childhood emotional needs, and then trying to meet those needs, either by yourself, or with a help of a therapist. I can provide you with some resources (youtube videos and such) if you’d like to start learning about childhood emotional needs and how to meet them.

    Dear Dafne, you have the capacity to help yourself, please know that. Start small, with tiny steps, and you won’t feel so paralyzed any more. It’s great that you are helping in the animal shelter – but that’s again helping others, focusing on others and their needs.

    I think it would be super important to start focusing more on your own needs (e.g. to simply become more aware of them throughout the day) and how you can actually meet them – be it by simply taking a nice bath, or going for a refreshing walk, or doing something else that fills you with energy and inspiration.

    Thank you for your kind words, and your empathy and encouragement on my healing journey. I wish you healing too, and want to ensure you that healing is indeed possible! <3

     

    #431711
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I’d like to comment some more on her letter, because it is quite telling…

    So here are some things she said about you:

    you had expectations, and when those weren’t met, I was crucified but made excuses for it at the same time.

    I never felt safe enough to tell you because I felt like I needed to be the one who was there for you. I didn’t feel protected by you

    you had broken up with me while I was going through the inhumane things I was experiencing [btw, did she tell you before that fight for Christmas that her aunt is pushing her to prostitute herself (if those are the “inhumane things” that she is referring to)?],

    and then the things your parents said about me… your parents labeled me as a gold digger, a girl trying to secure her future by dating you; they said I was taking advantage of you; I would cheat on you, etc., all because I am black and from the west.

    So around Christmas 2022, before she prostituted herself, she saw you as someone:

    • with whom she felt crucified for not meeting his expectations,
    • with whom she never felt safe enough,
    • who couldn’t protect her,
    • whose parents are racists and will never accept her, and
    • who is under the influence of his parents and will not marry someone they don’t approve of (“I told her why my parents would not approve of her and the consequence of us dating would be that I would have to choose my parents over her when it is time for marriage if my parents reject her“).

    And yet, merely a week after the prostitution, she came back to you, wanting to reconcile because: “it felt like you were the only good thing in my life at the time.”

    So she described you as a judgmental, unsupportive, bigoted guy, who is most probably not going to marry her. And yet, she wanted to return to you, because “you are the only good thing in her life”.

    And then, as the time went by, she says you were “destroying” her more and more, and that she became unrecognizable:

    Before I met you, I was happy and glowing. While I was dating you, I became unrecognizable. Sad. Always trying to please you, wear what you wanted me to wear, say what you wanted me to say, and do what was pleasing in your eyes.

    But still, she always wanted to go back to you. After each break up she would tell you she misses you… even though, according to her, you were abusing her.

    I was thinking how is that possible. One explanation could be that she developed a trauma bond with you (trauma bond is when the victim is trying to get love from her abuser, and therefore cannot leave the abuser). However, that could have been an explanation for her behavior – if she truly became a different person and “unrecognizable” due to being in the relationship with you. For example, if she became isolated from her friends, depressed, sitting at home all the time, wearing only the clothes that you approve of, not posting anything on social media, etc.

    However, based on everything you said, it seems to me that she didn’t become a different person: she actually kept behaving the way she liked, not the way you told her to behave. You did try to control her and change her, which was a mistake (because controlling someone like that and trying to force them to be something they are not is abusive. But that’s a different topic).

    So you wanted to try to fit her into your vision of a perfect wife, but she never “gave in”. She might have apologized, but those were fake apologies, because she continued to do stuff that you didn’t want her to do. So in that sense, I believe she never “succumbed” to your pressure, and never became a different person.

    That’s why I think that she wasn’t really your victim, as she is portraying herself, but in fact stayed with you for a reason. Not because she was trauma bonded and wanted your validation, but for a very pragmatic reason: because you were helping her financially.

    In the beginning I thought she might really need your validation (and that’s what she herself claimed). But after the financial aspect of your relationship became clear, I realized that she most probably doesn’t need validation, but money.

    Anyway, that’s my current understanding. I believe she wasn’t your victim, but chose to stay with you for her own purposes. It doesn’t mean you treated her well, even though you believed you were a loving boyfriend. We can talk more about your own mistakes.

    But in any case, I believe she wasn’t a naive, innocent girl whom you harmed, but rather, she seems like a calculating woman, who stayed with you for her own interests.

     

    #431690
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    She apologized for saying that it was not my business to know about what happened in January but she could still be manipulating the truth.

    It was also very recently that she was still claiming that you didn’t need to know about it, because you were not together in that week:

    We are already broken up, but we still kept in contact since she owes me a lot of stuff but she cut out the last part of me that cared for her when she told me that what happened to her in January was none of my business because it happened right after our break up and that she shouldn’t have even told me because we were not dating when it happened

    So I wouldn’t trust any of her apologies. Because it seems that’s her modus operandi: first she tries to find an excuse, then she blames you, and then if you’re still insisting that what she did was wrong, only then does she apologize. Her goal is take the responsibility off of herself, at all costs. No matter what she does, she isn’t to blame. Everybody else is, including you, but not her.

    In her letter, her 3rd sentence is already a lie and twisting of truth:

    The fights and lies were a lot to deal with for both of us.

    She doesn’t say “I lied to you”, but she makes it seem as if you both lied to each other. Which isn’t true because she was lying and hiding the truth about her ex. You did nothing of the kind. She was lying to you, but she makes it seem as if you both lied.

    because I was your first relationship, you had expectations, and when those weren’t met, I was crucified but made excuses for it at the same time.

    She blames you for having expectations, and says that you had those expectations only because it was your first relationship. As if having expectations is wrong. Well, your expectation that your partner shouldn’t lie, hide the truth from you, or deceive you are totally legitimate expectations. But she feels “crucified” for not having met those basic expectations.

    She was shamelessly lying to you, and when found out, she feels “crucified”. That’s victim blaming. She blames you for calling you out on her dishonesty and deceitfulness. She presents herself as the victim, as the “crucified one”. Whereas you – the real victim of her lying – she views as the perpetrator. She is not only twisting the truth with this one, but turning it upside down!

    Because I know I am being held to a certain standard, I have always told you that I felt like you were pure, and I didn’t like that I had sex with you.

    As if the biggest problem is that she had sex with you. A much bigger problem is that she had sex with other people, while being in and out of the relationship with you.

    I felt terrible because I knew that I had so many things to deal with that I could never tell you.

    Well,  she did tell you (very early in your relationship) about her aunt’s plan for prostitution.

    Though I was your girlfriend, it felt like I was your protector,

    Protecting you by hiding crucial information from you, such as that her ex (whom she still had feelings for) is her housemate? How “thoughtful” of her…

    You think I didn’t wish I could just run to you and lay everything at your feet? You think I didn’t want to just tell you everything and know that I was safe and secure? You don’t think I would love the feeling of me feeling like I don’t have to worry because my man got me?

    If you were “her man”, why was she secretly living with her ex?

    Godwin, you had broken up with me while I was going through the inhumane things I was experiencing, and then the things your parents said about me that had you upset and coming to me, which then turned into a fight later, made me feel like I really needed to handle things on my own. I did not feel safe telling you any of that.

    Your parents labeled me as a gold digger, a girl trying to secure her future by dating you; they said I was taking advantage of you; I would cheat on you, etc., all because I am black and from the west.

    I had already never felt safe. I love you, and I felt like over time we would reach that level of security in our relationship, but I was not feeling it, and with the fight and what your parents said added on top of it, I decided to deal with it on my own.

    Let’s see: she was hurt by your insensitive question (whether she was a gold-digger) and by your parents’ (alleged) racist comments, where they warned you that she would cheat on you and that she is a gold-digger, only because of her skin color? (is this true btw?).

    She felt they labelled her unjustly. She presumably felt alone and abandoned by everyone, and then…. she decided to deal with it on her own? So her way of dealing with an offer for prostitution is to accept it?

    And then to blame you (and your parents) for “forcing” her into it?

    See how insidious it is? She is again playing the victim: this time she is the victim of your “racist” parents (and of you, who is upholding their beliefs), and she had “no choice” but to accept the offer for prostitution. But why? That’s a very twisted logic. Actually I think I know why she accepted it, but it has nothing to do with you or your parents offending her. You are not to blame. But she is still blaming you.

    Even though in the very next sentence she says she is not blaming you:

    I do not blame you or anyone else for anything. I was a grown 21-year-old who was dumb in my ways. I take responsibility for my actions.

    Yeah right. The whole previous paragraph was about blaming you and your parents for her prostitution.

     

    Okay, I’ll stop here because it’s hard to read all those lies and manipulations. I might continue analyzing her letter later.

    B keeps saying that she is not trying to justify her actions. She says that she is only explaining how she felt.

    But you see that she IS trying to justify her actions and blame you in process, don’t you?

    But reading her messages make me feel like maybe she is right, maybe I am the problem overall. Maybe women are just better off without me.

    No, she is manipulating you because she doesn’t want to take responsibility for her actions, even if she claims she does. She is still blaming you, while claiming she is not. Pretty insidious!

    I understand my mistakes and I want to correct them.

    Good to hear that. But you shouldn’t take advice from her on what to change, because she is a very manipulative and abusive person. Please don’t believe her words, don’t believe her judgment of you.

     

    #431680
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    Unfortunately we cannot work with just assumptions, I don’t want to take that chance.

    It’s more than an assumption, but a very strong likelihood, if we take into consideration everything that happened and the type of person she is. It is actually common sense to assume that she slept with him, since they both had feelings for each other. And she’s not some prudent girl, but someone who believes that it’s okay to sleep with another man if she on that particular day is broken up with you.

    Moreover, she conveniently lived in the same house with him, perhaps not in the fist week of your relationship, when the half-naked photo was taken (because you said she had a female housemate at that time?), but soon enough. Because in December he was already living there, and was angry and jealous of you when you came to her place. So that was an arrangement she was hiding from you. I have no doubt in my mind that her intention was to deceive you.

    In a recent conversation she claimed that she found out where the money was coming from a day before the guy took her.

    As I said, in recent conversations she was twisting the truth, making herself appear more “innocent” and less responsible for what happened. She was re-touching the story and changing the facts.

    based on that, she knew her aunt’s plan, but she had apparently rejected that plan.

    Well, she hasn’t rejected the plan.

     

    Maybe stereotype number 1 did blind me. But a lot of guys told me it was normal, so I thought it was normal too.

    Those guys obviously grew up with the same stereotype. In what part of the world do you live, if I may ask?

    My father never said that women are inferior, he just said that women will be hard to deal with cause of their actions are based on emotions than logic, but they should still be treasured.

    Well, if emotions are inferior and women base their decisions on emotions, it does make women’s decision making inferior, doesn’t it? And so, women are inferior too, at least when it comes to decision making about important things in life. The conclusion: women shouldn’t be trusted to make important decisions, right?

    but they should still be treasured

    How should they be treasured? If they fulfill their role of wife, housewife and mother? Cleaning, cooking, taking care of their husband’s needs, and… not having a say in important life decisions?

    I will comment on B’s message a bit later. But what I notice is that she is presenting herself as the victim and minimizing her own bad behavior: her lying and deception regarding her ex, as well as her prostitution, as if those were minor things.

    I never expected anything from you other than respect and faithfulness,

    When a promiscuous girl like her tells you she wanted faithfulness…. and she started cheating from practically Day 1. It’s called hypocrisy. She is not seeing the log in her own eye, and then blaming you for your own.

    In fact, your own “log” (the false belief about women) is what made you fall for her excuses, but it also made you look down on her and treat her with contempt (telling her she was stupid, a whore, etc). Your own log upheld this toxic relationship, and it did hurt her as well.

    But her log is huge, and she isn’t willing to take responsibility for it, but is blaming you.

     

    #431661
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Helcat,

    those are all great affirmations for improving body positivity! Yes, we often focus on our imperfections and what is lacking, while forgetting and taking for granted what we have.

    Very long ago I was very unhappy with my own body, but as I got older, I realized that health is the most important. And I was grateful to my body for serving me so well. Nowadays, with my health (i.e. movement) limitations, it is harder, but I am not blaming my body. I know it’s not my body’s fault that things turned out the way they are, and so I am trying to work on my mind, to help my body too.

    I am glad that you are finding more and more acceptance of your body every day, loving it, and taking care of it. Also it’s wonderful to hear that your husband is a great support, both in taking care of your baby, and in every other aspect of your life.

    And congratulations on finishing your exam!

     

    #431659
    Tee
    Participant

    Sorry, bad formatting. Here it is again:

    Dear Paradoxy,

    here are my thoughts on suppressing emotions…

    We’ve already talked about your father and how he believes that emotions are bad and should be suppressed. Since women aren’t able to disregard their emotions so easily, and are more prone to be lead by emotions, I think he believes it makes them less rational, less smart, and therefore, more stupid. He believes that “succumbing” to emotions causes them trouble.

    As we have established, your father doesn’t want to get in touch with his emotions, and so he accepts a worldview where emotions are bad and inferior, and where he, with his “pure logic”, is superior. Consequently, women too (as more prone to be governed by emotions) are inferior to men, who are (or should be) governed by “pure logic”.

    Unfortunately, you have experienced on your own skin how logic can be twisted. Because B was twisting logic: she was claiming that sleeping around isn’t cheating, as long as on the day of cheating she is officially not in a relationship with you. Even if she was with you a week before and a week after having “gone astray”.

    This logic was unfair to you, it was hurtful, but you couldn’t find a way to dispute it (“I don’t know how to argue with the technicality”), because indeed, she wasn’t with you on the days she slept with another man.

    You couldn’t dispute this “logic”, which is focused on “technicalities”, without taking into account the emotions: your emotions, to be more precise, and your pain. You were being treated unfairly, you were emotionally abused, but the logic said: “she hasn’t cheated”. But your heart knew the truth: that she hurt you. And that you were in pain, because of her.

    Your father used logic too, without considering your emotions. He could shut you down, using pure logic:

    my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic.

    And it seems B too could shut you down too, with her twisted logic. She could disable you and you didn’t know how to fight against it.

    Because your father taught you not to fight against it – he taught you that emotions are not important. So you couldn’t just say “she is hurting me, I am leaving.” Because that’s not an “argument” for your father. Emotions are simply not an argument.

    So this is my take on how suppressing emotions can lead to a twisted, heartless logic. It’s not even logic, but a kind of reasoning that excludes the heart and emotions. It’s a false reasoning… technical reasoning, perhaps, which disregards the heart of the problem (pun intended).

     

    #431658
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    here are my thoughts on suppressing emotions…

    We’ve already talked about your father and how he believes that emotions are bad and should be suppressed. Since women aren’t able to disregard their emotions so easily, and are more prone to be lead by emotions, I think he believes it makes them less rational, less smart, and therefore, more stupid. He believes that “succumbing” to emotions causes them trouble.

    As we have established, your father doesn’t want to get in touch with his emotions, and so he accepts a worldview where emotions are bad and inferior, and where he, with his “pure logic”, is superior. Consequently, women too (as more prone to be governed by emotions) are inferior to men, who are (or should be) governed by “pure logic”.

    Unfortunately, you have experienced on your own skin how logic can be twisted. Because B was twisting logic: she was claiming that sleeping around isn’t cheating, as long as on the day of cheating she is officially not in a relationship with you. Even if she was with you a week before and a week after having “gone astray.”

    This logic was unfair to you, it was hurtful, but you couldn’t find a way to dispute it (“I don’t know how to argue with the technicality”), because indeed, she wasn’t with you on the days she slept with another man.

    You couldn’t dispute this “logic”, which is focused on “technicalities”, without taking into account the emotions: your emotions, to be more precise, and your pain. You were being treated unfairly, you were emotionally abused, but the logic said: “she hasn’t cheated”. But your heart knew the truth: that she hurt you. And that you were in pain, because of her.

    Your father used logic too, without considering your emotions. He could shut you down, using pure logic:
    <p style=”margin-left: .5in;”>my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic.</p>
    And it seems B too could shut you down too, with her twisted logic. She could disable you and you didn’t know how to fight against it.

    Because your father taught you not to fight against it – he taught you that emotions are not important. So you couldn’t just say “she is hurting me, I am leaving.” Because that’s not an “argument” for your father. Emotions are simply not an argument.

    So this is my take on how suppressing emotions can lead to a twisted, heartless logic. It’s not even logic, but a kind of reasoning that excludes the heart and emotions. It’s a false reasoning… technical reasoning, perhaps, which disregards the heart of the problem (pun intended).

     

    #431650
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    Yes Tee, I understand, there is nothing wrong about your harshness. I was just afraid to face reality.

    I am glad you didn’t find it offensive or inconsiderate. But yes, unfortunately the truth can sometimes be harsh.

    Regarding the half-naked photo, I think your assumption that she could have slept with him is actually right:

    I confronted her and she said it was one of her exes, the one who she still had feelings for. She did not imply anything about sleeping with the man. I am the one saying that she COULD HAVE slept with him, and she could just be lying to me by not giving the details of what happened on that day, cause she was naked with only a towel wrapped around her. Everyone has hormones and if she was sexually stimulated enough by her ex, she COULD HAVE slept with him.

    She said he still had feelings for him, and you later realized that he had feelings for her too (because he was jealous of you). So what do you think happened when they reconciled and she told him she still loves him? I am pretty sure they didn’t remain platonic, and then, after they’d presumably abstained from sex, they made a photo with her naked, wrapped only in a towel.

    I mean, it’s pretty clear what happened. She actually told you that indirectly, but she also said it doesn’t count, because you were broken up in those few days. You said that’s her logic: even if you break up and reconcile every second week, sleeping with someone else in between wouldn’t be cheating, according to her. So it wasn’t “technically” cheating. But I am pretty sure it happened.

    But then, when she talked about it a year later, suddenly they didn’t sleep together…

    I don’t remember recalling events more favorable to her. I am considering all the factors that are playing in the situation.

    Okay, here it is. On April 8, you asked:

    Is it still considered cheating if she only slept with the man AFTER we broke up? Even though preparations were made WITHOUT her knowledge?

    However, in your very first post, on March 20, you said that the preparations were made with her knowledge. You said she knew where the money was coming from, but didn’t want to tell you:

    SHE KNEW BEFORE IT HAPPENED THAT THE MONEY WAS COMING FROM A MAN AND SHE DID NOT TELL ME WHEN SHE FOUND OUT.

    Also:

    The aunt told her about the married man when B and I started dating. So she was already in a healthy relationship when she learnt about the married man. And when the suggestion was made, she already told me that her aunt wanted her to do it and we had already discussed how wrong that was and it was obvious that I did not want her to do it and she had agreed.

    And:

    It so happened that her aunt had been giving her money for several months, which she had told me before but I told the fact that her aunt is giving her so much money is weird because no one gives money like that without expecting something in return.

    So she clearly knew about her aunt’s plan – she even told you about it. And when the money started coming, she knew where it is coming from. But she didn’t tell you, although you were suspicious about it.

    So that’s what you said on March 20, in your very first post. But on April 8, you said that the preparations were made without her knowledge. I mean, she knew about her aunt’s plan, she was receiving money beforehand….  there wasn’t much unknown to her.

    That’s why I thought that either she changed the story, or you started remembering it differently, to be more to her favor, because that was a part of self-deception. You wanted to believe her so badly, to make her seem innocent, and so perhaps you started remembering things differently?

    We do have a counselor here but that is the last thing I want right now. The only place where I get to rant is here. Besides, I have priorities. I find comfort in making music now as it is what I wanted to do more than med, and I find that good enough for now.

    Good to know you’re finding comfort in making music! Perhaps some day, soon enough, you’ll decide to see a counselor too.

    I can’t even confide in the close friend of mine because everyone is human, I can’t just rant to him like that. He most likely wouldn’t want to support me in that manner. That is why I said I have no friends. He is literally all I got and I am pretty sure he is tired of my drama cause I tell him most of the time whenever B and I break up only to get back together.

    I understand. He might not know what to say or how to support you properly. But you can tell him that you broke up with B (this time for good) and that you’re pretty devastated. But I guess you’ve already told him that?

    I am just disappointed that everyone was right about her.

    Yeah, sometimes it makes sense to pay attention, if everybody is telling you the same. But it’s hard, it often takes a big disappointment and disillusionment, before we can see the truth.

    I believed she would be the exception to the stereotype everyone (not my parents) kept describing.

    Yes, that’s hard – to believe you’ve managed to find a good woman, who doesn’t fit the stereotype, only to fall into one.

    Actually, I think the stereotype your parents (and everybody else) taught you consists of two parts: one part of the stereotype is that women do stupid things (women “overthink” and “don’t listen”, as you expressed). And the other part of the stereotype is that most modern women are gold-diggers and/or immoral.

    I think you didn’t completely adopt the second stereotype – you didn’t completely believe that all women are gold-diggers. You thought there are exceptions (and you thought B is one such exception). But you completely believed the first stereotype: that women tend to do stupid things, or behave stupidly. And that’s what made you believe that B’s behavior is stupidity, rather than manipulation. So believing in Stereotype No 1 blinded you to B’s true nature.

    That’s why I said that a part of your healing should be to get rid of those stereotypes, i.e. false beliefs about women.

    If you have more things to say, might as well finish it off in this thread because you never know when we might talk again.

    Yes, I wanted to write some more about how suppressing emotions leads to believing that women do stupid things, i.e. to Stereotype No 1. I’ll try to get to it soon.

    Thank you for all the advice and support you have given me.

    You are most welcome, Paradoxy!

     

    #431626
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    thanks, I am fine, my back is better again, so I feel good. Hoping that it will last… (a praying hands emoji)

    Yes that’s what I try to tell my inner self like no matter what I’ve been through I didn’t lose hope in humanity and connections. Then have some love for yourself.

    I am happy you haven’t lost hope in humanity and relationships. Because there are wonderful people out there, not everybody is like your father, or even your mother. So yeah, cheers to good people and good, healthy relationships! 🙂

    And I am glad that people at your new workplace, including your bosses, seem super cool:

    I’m finished with my onboarding, It wasn’t that long, But I’m still learning their ways, I really like that they’re not rigid about certain ways If I like something my way I can do it that way. But they’re humble enough to show like here’s what we think is the most efficient way.

    That’s fantastic, SereneWolf, and it means so much! That they give you the freedom to do it your way, if you find it better. So it’s not like receiving top-down orders, which you need to follow, but they give you a degree of freedom and independence. Which is exactly what you cherish, isn’t it?

    Yes I do think it’s like that I don’t perform good if I’m not attached to it emotionally. But It was also because of my people pleasing behaviour, Like I didn’t wanted to disappoint my parents. But nonetheless later on I did, After 4 semester (2 Years) I put a stop to that college.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. They wanted you to study in that field, and you wanted to please them. You tried, but it wasn’t working out. It’s good that you decided to put a stop on it eventually. Even if it meant hard decisions, like getting a job and supporting yourself.

    But you’ve managed to make up for it all: you’ve earned your Bachelor’s and now you’re doing a Masters in the field you like. So it all turned out well…

    And I’m kinda proud of myself since They already gave me an assistant (She’s also intern doing Masters in sustainability) in just 2<sup>nd</sup> week because during the talk they didn’t say I’d have manage anyone. But they trust me enough even taking on consulting projects. So my work is more diverse towards Product analytics and Consulting side as well.

    Congratulations on getting an assistant and being entrusted with more demanding projects!

    And another cool thing we’re all in different time zones. That means no unnecessary meetings.

    Hahaha 🙂 True to your introverted nature 🙂

    And talking about it it makes me remember this point. Is this why I’m also not impressed with anyone’s educational qualities now? Or just not impressed with anything that much. Like huh. Good. So what? Am I becoming my father?

    Hehe, well, your inner critic is very similar to your father. It is your father’s internalized voice. But you know, it’s a good sign that you can be proud of yourself (you just said you’re proud of getting an assistant). It’s a sign that your inner critic couldn’t spoil the party – couldn’t tell you “so what?”, or “big deal”. Seems you are getting out of its grip, which is a very good development!

    And Yes I’m trying to be vulnerable with friends, Just a recent example, My friend’s friend reached out to me and wanted talk even though another friend told me how she is opposite of what I like, She smokes, she’s dramatic and her anger is always on the edge. But I didn’t said no. I saw it from a different perspective this time we talked till 2am. I tried to understood why she’s the way she is and I noticed that it’s just her coping mechanisms, At heart she’s kind and loving woman.

    Okay…. was it like a date? I must admit, it got me worried a little that now you’ll go into the opposite extreme of being open and receptive to everyone, without discernment. And kind of “try to understand” this girl, who might have anger issues… which might not be the best predictor for a healthy relationship. I mean, in case you are considering dating her…

    Sorry if I am preaching, I just wanted to say that you don’t need to like everybody, you don’t need to suddenly drop all judgment. In fact, the ideal would be not to be judgmental, but to still have discernment. Anyway, I felt the need to mention it, just in case 🙂

    Also I’m not judgy like I used to be. Before I’d be like hmm this person and labels them now I try to understand first and I don’t try to fix them or at least urge to fix them is gone.

    Good to hear that you don’t have the urge to fix the person. You can simply observe and see whether they are (in this case, whether she is) compatible. If you like her and don’t feel like changing anything major on her, that’s a good sign.

     

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