Being better at accepting depression

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This topic has 541 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 11 months, 2 weeks ago by anita.

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August 4, 2018 at 7:20 am #220287

Anonymous
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Dear noname:

I need to share this little bit about myself because otherwise, our communication will not be honest: I thought about suicide from a very early age and I thought at the time that I didn’t do it so to not make my mother more sad than she already was. I thought it will kill her if I killed myself. I wanted to end my suffering so badly. Later on, as an adult, I repeatedly threatened suicide directly and indirectly, but did not proceed with a sincere effort. I ended up in a hospital after threatening such one time, made to drink that awful thick, black liquid so to vomit the few pills I took. At another time I collected enough methadone (someone else’s) to suffice for an effective suicidal act. But didn’t.

When my most recent and first effective therapist in 2011 or so suggested that I was manipulative when I mentioned suicide yet again, I was very angry with him. I didn’t feel that I was manipulative, I really was in pain.. I really did want to end my pain. I didn’t understand at the time that the manipulation was not in me being insincere, but in not considering the affect such threats had on another person.

This is a very important distinction: it was not that I was not honest when I expressed the pain I felt and my real desire to end the pain the only way I perceived possible at the time, but that I was not aware of the affect such threats had on a person hearing my threats.

So why don’t you and I come to an understanding on the issue of suicide- if I assure you that I understand the depth of your pain, because I experienced a very deep pain myself for so very, very long, will you believe that I know how much you are hurting, and therefore you mentioning suicide is not necessary, not anymore?

anita

August 4, 2018 at 7:41 am #220291

noname
Participant

Anita

Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I think I express it in that way so that people can understand the pain. I can see that you understand and that makes me feel cared for, and I don’t need to share that with you anymore since I can now see you are familiar and understanding of the pain I’m experiencing. I’m genuinely sorry I did that, I know it’s manipulative. In the past it has been the only way I’ve gotten anyone to listen and not belittle my problems.

August 4, 2018 at 7:52 am #220293

noname
Participant

I do want you to know that your words did give me a push I needed regardless if that was your intention or not. Sometimes I need to be reminded that I do have a choice and the oppression I continue to feel is my choice as well. Since I’ve been in my most recent depression over the past year I have not been choosing life, I have been hurting myself In other ways than physical self harm because I believed nothing I do mattered. Yesterday I slept most of the day away after reading this thread in its entirety and continuing to feel hopeless, when i woke up from my depressive sleeping I went to talk to a friend about life, then went to the skate park to clear my head, then talked to another friend, and then yet another friend. I spent time yesterday experiencing myself as someone worthwhile to be around, a good friend, because of what you said. I very wellcould have stayed inside depressed, but with little coping mechanisms here that actually work for me I decided to reach out and I’m glad I did.

August 4, 2018 at 7:55 am #220297

Anonymous
Guest

Dear noname:

I am definitely not belittling your problems, never had. I am aware of the severity of what I referred to as your injury in childhood, a repeated, ongoing injury inflicted on you and the consequences of it. I do know emotional pain so great and so prolonged, that the desire to end that pain, and quickly, is a sincere desire. I also know the great desire to be seen, to be seen hurting and then, to be helped.

You apologized for being manipulative. Again I do believe that your suicidal talk was sincere. But it did have a negative affect on me, so I do accept your apology and the issue, for me, is now resolved.

Are we going back to the healing plan then, the one started yesterday?

And how did you sleep last night?

anita

August 4, 2018 at 8:00 am #220299

Anonymous
Guest

Dear noname:

Double posting. I just read your most recent post (or what may be the most recent). Good thing you talked to friends, excellent and that you slept some.

You wrote, “Sometimes I need to be reminded that I do have a choice and the oppression I continue to feel is my choice as well”- I don’t think anyone chooses oppression and misery. I don’t think you chose that. You want to feel good, to feel love, that is your choice. This is your motivation, always has been.

anita

August 4, 2018 at 8:19 am #220301
noname
Participant
Yes we can go back to the healing plan. I think what I mean by choosing to continue to be oppressed is that I could’ve tried harder. I tell people all the time my greatest fear in life is if I felt I didn’t try hard enough. On second thought I may have not been resourced enough in the past to take on the pain that comes along with quitting smoking, or changing the communication with my parents. I feel more resourced now because of this thread, because I’m seeing my therapist on a weekly basis, because of being more open with friends, and starting to learn how to actually empathize with myself. So maybe it wasn’t the case that I was oppressing myself, just that I wasn’t well equipped to take the pain. I know the pain needs to be felt before I can heal, I just haven’t been in a place where I could handle the pain until now.

As for the healing plan, I’m willing to take the pain now. I’ve decided even when I’m able to smoke again i won’t do it unless Its a social and only a few times a month, I need to help my body learn to function properly without it, and stop being psychologically dependent on it. I should be going on a date tonight, and I’ve also decided that I won’t have sex with this person on the first night, regardless of how sexually deprived I’ve been. I think finding someone I can connect with is much more important to me right now, someone who is curious about me and not just my body.

I’m still not sleeping well between last night and the morning nap I just took I got about 3.5-4hrs.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by noname.
August 4, 2018 at 8:59 am #220309

Anonymous
Guest

Dear noname:

You wrote, “I know the pain needs to be felt before I can heal”- you felt enough pain already before healing. It is about feeling the pain and not quitting, but instead, continuing to heal through the pain, while feeling the pain.

When you are in the process of healing and you feel better, you keep going, right? But then something happens or nothing in particular happens and you feel the same old, same old pain. So you say to yourself, don’t you, something like: whatever I was doing didn’t work, if it worked, I wouldn’t be feeling this pain.

This is the wrong thinking. As you heal and do well, you will feel that pain, but it doesn’t mean you are not healing and that you were not doing the right things for your healing right before you felt the pain.

The feeling of pain, of distress when it is an activation of old childhood injury will continue to show up, to be reactivated for any reason or no particular reason. Continue your healing regardless. Trust that you are in the healing process no matter how you feel.

It is not so much about being “willing to take the pain now”, it is about understanding what the pain means and what it doesn’t mean. It means a reactivation, most times. It is similar to this concept: expect to feel an electrical shock once in a while as you proceed. It will happen no matter what happens in your life. Proceed anyway, persist, keep going. Trust the process.

As far as smoking, it will be a process for you. Allow imperfect execution of your intentions. Be gentle with yourself. Regarding the date tonight, if you don’t want it to turn sexual, make sure you meet her in a public place and remain in public with her. Better not go to your place or hers and then struggle with the now difficult execution of your intent to not be sexual with her.

Regarding your sleep deprivation, most important, relax repeatedly during your waking hours, that is the best you can do for yourself. You can function well without much sleep if you keep yourself calm, paying attention, not rushing, moving slowly and intently, pre-thinking your next move before making it, planning.

anita

August 5, 2018 at 3:39 am #220363

Anonymous
Guest

Dear noname:

I am wondering how you are doing/ feeling today.

anita

* Dear Monica: I am looking forward to reading your own thread, which you wrote that you will start two days ago.

August 5, 2018 at 6:17 am #220375

noname
Participant

Good morning Anita

This thread has become such a great source of support for me lately and I’m grateful. Yesterday turned out okay. I got stiffed once again, and that hurt. I had been working on some photography stuff with one of my friends and cut it about an hour short because she confirmed the date. Then 15 min before I’m about to leave my house to go meet her she tells me she actually made other plans with someone else. I came to the conclusion that I really need to give up on online dating all together, and stick with the reliable people in my life and be patient enough to find a woman who cares about me, not in a bar, not on an app.

I’m going to use letters in parenthesis to represent my friends names from now on to avoid confusion.

After my photographer friend left and I ended ready for a date that didn’t happen, I started feeling bad again, as if there’s something not good enough about me is why this happened. Luckily one of my childhood friends(j) who recently moved a half mile from my house stopped by to see me with his girlfriend, they talked to me for a minute and They gave me a hug before they left which i really needed. My other friend(m) and his girlfriend(b) who I live behind their house in a detached garage apt, invited me to sit on the back porch with them and talk/drink celebrate because his gf(b) just bought a house. Me and B have a lot in common as she has a similar reasons for being a helper as I don because of childhood wounding and taking care of her parents, and she is a nurse, so she understands the difficulty of being in being in a helping profession, my friend m isn’t the best with deep conversations as he’s very distracted and self centered, so she really enjoys our conversations when we have them. I generally connect well with women, because I really enjoy listening to the details of people’s story. We talked for a few hours over quite a few drinks and really connected which I needed.

Despite how bad I felt about getting stiffed yet again, im grateful im insulated with such loving friends. I still really need sex right now as I’ve only had sex a couple times this year, but there’s nothing I can do about it. I don’t know if I still feel like trying and my trust of women continues to be shaky. I’m not sure what to do about this need anymore but I feel as if the universe is telling me to stop trying so hard.

August 5, 2018 at 7:09 am #220381

Anonymous
Guest

Dear noname:

Good to read from you.

You wrote: “I started feeling bad again, as if there’s something not good enough about me… Luckily one of my childhood friends… stopped by t see me”-

notice this: the woman cancelled, a bad feeling was activated in your brain, a bad feeling that is attached to a core belief (“something not good enough about me”). Next an action was taken, by friends who came to visit you, gave you a hug and you felt better.

When you feel badly again, and you will, take the right action (if it doesn’t happen that luck is involved), and you will feel better. You already did this before and it worked. Be persistent and take the right action when you feel badly, call a friend, post here, take a walk and such.

When you feel bad it doesn’t mean something bad happened or that you did the wrong thing. It means that the same-old-same old feeling was triggered, as well as the core belief attached to the bad feeling.

You need to aim at no longer evaluating how well/ badly you are doing solely by the feeing you are having. When injured in childhood, our feelings are often not good indicators to how we are doing and what is actually happening. Got to judge our functioning and evaluate our situation from a different place than feelings-alone.

anita

August 5, 2018 at 3:58 pm #220393
noname
Participant
Anita,

I have never even considered that I judge my progress based on my feelings, until now. I think there is certainly a part of me that still believes constant happiness=good mental health. Going back to how i intellectualize, even though i know happiness like any other emotion will come and go, my feeling is still one that if i’m not happy that means i’m bad. Seeing that last sentence written down just now i was able to make a direct connection to my fathers words (“its your job to take care of your mother”) and that core belief i have that i’m a bad person. You continue to reveal traits about myself that are so obvious i don’t even notice them.

I think i struggle the most with this self-evaluation that im bad connected to anger right now. First of all i was never allowed to get angry growing up, all the anger in the house was reserved for my dad. If i ever got angry he made it a point to show me exactly how much angrier he was that i was angry and he also set a great example of how not to express it. What this means for me now is i’m uncomfortable with feeling angry, and think it means i’m a bad person.

Perfect example was the text message exchange i had with this woman yesterday who stiffed me. After she told me she made other plans, i instantly became angry. I thought back to this thread and trying to communicate my feelings in a more respectable way, but i feel like i failed that. At first i said “im disappointed. but whatever.” then she says maybe we could hangout later in the night for which i responded “f**k that. 2 hours ago you said you were down, so i cut my plans short because of that. im an actual person you know? but your a pretty girl im sure you’ll find what you want” I felt i shouldn’t have said that last sentence, and it was more of an expression of my anger towards women in general. I hate that i struggle with trusting women so much, I hate that i believe women are promiscuous, lying, opportunists. This is tainting the way i see people right now, and i have no doubt it will interfere with my career if i cant resolve this.

I continue to feel unattractive most of the time even though people tell me otherwise all the time, and as if i somehow deserve to be lied to consistently for some reason. My first serious self harm/suicide attempt was because of a girl who stiffed me when i 16. Every time this happens it makes me feel worthless and reactivates that pain, which is a reactivation of my maternal relationship. I would really like to work on this so that one day i might be able to attract and maintain a healthy relationship with a woman. I feel somehow i must keep attracting and being attracted to this same type of dishonest woman.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by noname.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by noname.
August 6, 2018 at 5:47 am #220447

Anonymous
Guest

Dear noname:

There are a few important topics in your recent post. Please take your time considering and evaluating the following:

1. “all the anger in the house was reserved for my dad“, you wrote in your most recent post. From previous posts, all the empathy in the house was reserved for your mother. That leaves you not in the position of receiving any empathy for yourself nor having the right to get angry about it.

“If I ever got angry he made it a point to show me exactly how much angrier he was“. When you looked miserable as a child (and you said you did judging for one by a photo of yourself as a child), she made it a point to show you how much more miserable she was.

She still does, only very recently you shared how she talked and talked about herself, her troubles, not asking you about you, how you are doing.

2.”there is certainly a part of me that still believes constant happiness- good mental health”- this belief will continue to make your healing impossible because it is an untrue belief. It is not congruent with reality. This means that every time you are not happy, you think you are off track, everything is terrible.

There is no such thing as constant happiness for any person or animal in the whole wide world. To be congruent with reality, you have to accept that even after healing long enough, you will still not be constantly happy. People invented heaven and nirvana (as well as the “and they lived happily ever after” endings of children’s stories) and what not for this very purpose, to take comfort in a constant happiness future state of mind, one that does not exist.

3.”that core belief I have that I’m a bad person”- having shared and still sharing the same core belief myself, I can tell you from personal experience that this core belief comes with tons of misery and every time it is activated, so is the misery. I am still in the process of changing this core belief as it is activated during the day. Less misery is the result (but not happiness or constant happiness, just that great relief in being a good person after all). The belief of being worthless is tightly connected to the belief that you are bad, unworthy of the good things in life.

4. Regarding belief that “women are promiscuous, lying, opportunists”- some are. I would say therer are three groups of people: one is the majority of people who are sometimes promiscuous and/ or lying, opportunistic. A second group, much smaller than the first are people who are these things on a regular basis, cemented in ongoing, calculated, dishonest manipulation of others. A third group, much smaller than the first, are people who are aware and cautious about being honest on an ongoing basis.

When you get a chance, if you want to, think about your mother, in which group is she (regarding honesty and being an opportunist, if not regarding being promiscuous).

anita

August 6, 2018 at 11:52 am #220499

noname
Participant

Im having a hard time categorizing my mom into one of those 3. I see her as a person who plays the role of victim. Which i think can be manipulative.

In regard to my anger towards women i would like to be in a healthy enough place to be willing to take a risk and get hurt, and be accepting of it, and willing to do it again. I think this will take an acceptance of pain if i’m to find the mutually supportive other i would like. Sometimes i dont even know why i want a woman at all? it frustrates the hell out of me feeling like i need or want someone, it seems irrational to want someone else to give me attention and i feel bad for wanting a woman around at all, but i think we’ve already been over my issue with feeling in need. I’ve never felt comfortable relying on anyone but myself.

I’ve understood for a couple years now that happiness cannot be a constant state. It’s taken some work but what im striving for is peace of mind, and a capacity to take care of myself and be kind (to me & others) in my moments of pain. Which as of now i am not, when someone stands me up or cheats on me i try to respectfully let them know i am hurt without shaming them, which i struggle with now. I have no doubt i will be cheated on and lied to again i would just like to stop handling so poorly.

I also dont understand how to help myself feel worthy. I mean i understand my parental relationships are the cause and maintenance, but cutting contact alone wont do the trick. I have clients in their 70’s with similar parental dynamics as mine though their parents have been deceased for years (no contact) they still struggle with this belief

August 6, 2018 at 12:00 pm #220507

Anonymous
Guest

Dear noname:

I read quickly through your recent post because I am not focused and need to get away from the computer. Regarding your last paragraph I agree, “cutting contact alone won’t do the trick”. I will re-read your recent post thoroughly, as well as anything you might add before I am back, and reply in about sixteen hours.

Be good to you, you are worthy, and this is the honest truth.

anita

August 6, 2018 at 1:26 pm #220513

Prash
Participant

Dear noname,

Doing something that I feel is to the benefit of others is something that makes me feel worthy of myself. That feeling is strengthened when there is a sense of equanimity about the impact that has been made by the actions that I have taken.

Wish you the peace of mind that you strive for.

Take care.
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