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SereneWolfParticipant
Dear Tee***
SereneWolfParticipantDear SereneWolf,
Yes, and the imprint is carried by the inner childā¦ thatās why it needs inner child healing.
I told you about my CEN (Childhood Emotional Neglect) Right?
Ā
Well, my father had his own emotional wounding related to his mother. I think he was trying to get love and validation from his emotionally distant mother. He repeated that in the relationship with his wife, i.e. my mother. So he always tried to āpleaseā and āappeaseā my mother, and he never wanted conflict with her. It was important for him that my mother isnāt angry with him. That was his priority, not my well-being or even his own well-being. And so he stayed silent and endured what he shouldnāt have endured.
Ohh I see. So just enduring silently could be pretty damaging as well.
With your mother, there could have been also cultural factors at play, maybe that women shouldnāt object to their husbands? So perhaps that contributed to your mother staying silent?
Yes totally agree! Old beliefs!
I seeā¦ yes, if youāre missing a deeper sense of self-worth, itās very likely related to that incessant criticism that youāve heard from your father and grandfatherā¦.
Even now? Even though I donāt focus much on what they say. Even if itās the past wound. Iāll have to build strong sense of self-worth again. Iām done feeling worse about myself! And also because itās something stopping me from being compassionate with myself.
Rightā¦ because the closest relationships for you were a source of stress and humiliation, not a source of encouragement and support. And also broader relationships werenāt too supportive either, because as youāve said, it was all about rivalry and who is more accomplished, who makes more money etc. No wonder you didnāt want to show any vulnerability, or your true self.
Exactly!
But do you know what Henry Cloudās definition of intimacy is?Ā Intimacy = into me see.
We need to allow the other person to see us, to seeĀ intoĀ us, otherwise there can be no intimacy and no real relationship.
What a great way to explain! I agree with that. But like what does it mean to let them see into us? Does it mean let them know what weāre thinking without judging, without fear of criticizing, and also being vulnerable or something more?
It could be that your inner child is still afraid to be seen, because he believes heās not good enough, not worthy enough? But if you can truly believe that youāre good enough and have so many good qualities, and that you donāt need to be perfect (unlike your parents and grandparents told you!)ā¦ then you might allow another person to āsee into youā. As weāve talked about before, you donāt need to spill out all your deepest secrets on the first date, just maybe share one vulnerable thing and see how she reactsā¦
Yes maybe this inner feeling not being worthy is damaging me for so long that I lost track of my own self.
Right! One step at a timeI said it because you mentioned earlier that you fear they might judge you for your spontaneity:
I mean with my parents I still do, but not with my romantic interests.
Ā
Good! I guess you can now be more mindful while dating and observe yourself, and notice if the fear arisesā¦ which is already a big step!
Thanks for giving me hope though. I was about to give up if I didnāt find out its not only about dating but itās much more deeper thing to resolve.
Today I listened to this podcast and it had an interesting concept about childhood trauma. Like today pretty much every one have some issues related to childhood that they need to address and work on. But instead feeling like a victim. Being mindful in the present and accept that and he quotes from the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna said: “Whatever happened, happened for the good; Whatever is happening, is happening for the good; Whatever will happen, will also happen for the good only.ā
Just think about it like if everything went perfectly would you have this drive to improve yourself and work on yourself every day? Probably not. So itās like bitter and sweet things mixed cocktail which is fun thing about life and thatās what makes it interesting and worth living not just like a raw water.
Makes me think that striving for this inner peace is nothing less than a great war against ourselves.SereneWolfParticipantDear Tee,
Good that youāve realized it at a relatively young age! But the imprint stayed, and so their perfectionism became your own perfectionist inner critic. Which is telling you that youāre not good enough, not accomplishing enough at work, not earning enough money etc etc. Itās sad that both your father and grandfather were perfectionists, so you received a double dose of criticism.
Yes the IMPRINT! Thatās the thing Iām working on
Not only that, but it seems there was no male role model who could have served as a positive father figure (āMy neighbors are like that, older relatives etc because they grew up in competitive environmentā). So you were surrounded by bad role modelsā¦
Yes exactly! And as we talked recently now I realized how good it is to be surrounded by good and supportive role models
Ā
Rightā¦ so for your grandfather, it seems you were a tool to boost his vanity and pride. He boasted to others with your accomplishments, while at the same time he wasnāt really proud of you, but kept criticizing you. I can see how damaging it was for you, and how toxic. I understand why you wanted to get away ASAPā¦
Yes and at that time I was like Iāll make him proud of me. But later I realized that his pride and ego are much toxic
Itās good you werenāt criticized by your mother and grandmother. However, I get the feeling that they didnāt protect you from your fatherās and grandfatherās criticism either. Your mother told you to take your fatherās criticism silently and āmaturelyā, so basically she never challenged your father to change his approach. My father never protected me from my motherās criticism either. Thatās why the damage done by my mother was much bigger than it should have been. Because my father allowed the abuse and didnāt say anything. I think something similar happened to you too?
Yes I can say thatās really similar what happened to me. But what do you think what stopped your father and my mother from protecting us?
Yeah, and I think there is even a difference between self-esteem and self-confidence. Self-esteem is a basic sense of self-worth (which doesnāt depend on any skill that you possess), whereas self-confidence is related to various skills we have. Say a professional athlete may have a lot of self-confidence that they are good at sports, but once they get injured, they may feel worthless because their self-esteem was based on their skills and not on a deep inner sense that they are worthy as a person.
Perhaps you too feel self-confident is some things, but what is missing is a deeper sense of self-worth, of being worthy simply because you exist?
I totally agree with you! I do feel like Iām missing deeper sense of self-worth. And recently quite a lot
Ā
Right.. and it seems to me that youāre very cautious with relationships not only because of your fatherās (and grandfatherās) criticism, but also because you werenāt protected enough by your mother. So relationship might seem like a very scary thing, where no one is on your side?
Right! and thatās the reason why I also still have fear of commitment. It feels so scary.
Ā
Okay, youāre afraid to be judged by your partner. So to protect yourself, you rather judge her and make her seem deficient, so to feel less vulnerable? Like, you first judge her before she can judge you?
Hmm may not like whoās first but like because I tried to kind of make the relationship and the person āPerfectā like we talked about empathy before. I used to directly run for the fix instead of empathizing first.
Okay, so you donāt want a relationship to be a competition and a power struggle. You hate it.
EXACTLY!
And thatās why youād rather not go into it. But the problem is that a part of you believes that relationshipĀ isĀ a power struggle. Or at least that being in a relationship means being judged, criticized and hurt. That you canāt show your weaknesses, or even your spontaneity (like dancing while cooking lunch) without being criticized. Right?
Yes being vulnerable and showing weakness as well as opening up as I should be thatās something I need to work on.. and I believe Iām little better than before in that regard.
For spontaneity I donāt feel criticized. Because in my previous relationships I received lot of good compliments about it and I myself believe that without spontaneity relationships are much less fun.. Because Iām someone who gets bored pretty quickly
And if you approach relationships from that vantage point (which is a vantage point of fear), then I think itās better not to date. Because youāll likely get more of the same. But if you work on slowly dissolving that fear, on realizing why itās there and then dissolving itā¦ thatās when you open yourself to a different kind of dynamic in a relationship. To a possibility of a healthy relationship.
I want to get out from this fearsome repetitive cycle. So, I will date and experiment till I have the success.
That would be my answer to your question whether youāre ready to date (You think Iām ready? Or I still need lot of healing even to start dating someone?). I think youāre ready to date if you can let go of some of that fear of judgment in the relationship. We can talk more about it, if youād like toā¦
Yes we can talk more about it since Iām still confused even so that Iām being mindful about myself. Itās still makes me overthink
I have a funny example about fear of judgement. So the date I told you about (Before the doctor) I was in hurry, I took a shower I get ready and forget to put the deodorant and just went out. And when she started being touchy and huggy with me I realized heck I forget the deo and instead of being in the moment and even though I knew that sheās not thinking about that I smell, But in my head I was like donāt let come near too much now because of your mistake now sheād take you as someone who doesnāt even groom himself properly. And I was actually trying to be less touchy with her just because of this overthinking and fear š
SereneWolfParticipantI looked it up for what CTPSD means.
And not all, But many things are related. I’m actually surprised!
- difficulty controlling your emotions – Yes
- feeling very angry or distrustful towards the world – No
- constant feelings of emptiness or hopelessness – Frequent (Nowadays)
- feeling as if you are permanently damaged or worthless – Mostly
- feeling as if you are completely different to other people – Yes more or less
- feeling like nobody can understand what happened to you – Yes
- avoiding friendships and relationships, or finding them very difficult – Yes
- often experiencing dissociative symptoms such as depersonalisation or derealisation – Yes
- physical symptoms, such as headaches, dizziness, chest pains and stomach aches – Less Frequent
- regularĀ suicidal feelings. – No
SereneWolfParticipantDear Tee,
In fact, I am thinking now that their biggest mistake as parents wasnāt excessive worry (because you sort of gave them the reasons to be worriedĀ Ā ), but rather, it could be the criticism and judgment that you grew up with. Feeling constantly criticized (e.g. your father was very harsh with you when you didnāt hand him the proper tool right away), always compared to others, perhaps always feeling that something is wrong with you and that youāre not good enough? Like, being seen not with loving, accepting eyes, but with strict, judgmental eyes, who always evaluate you and seek a reason to criticize you?
I totally agree like you mentioned (and even others told me) I was resourceful and pretty much self- reliant. But the thing is that for my parents and grandparents they never saw that as my good accomplishments. They were always like look what he did at this age? Look what he accomplished?Ā Mainly my grandfather and father (Both are very “perfectionist” nature) So instead of praising they were criticizing me and that made me realize that no matter what I’ll do I wouldn’t be good enough for them. (I realized that years ago) And after that not spending that much time with them, I think they already see me as someone not “inclusive” in the family. Because they be like whatever they think is the only truth and I didn’t like that. My siblings felt the same way as well. But I believe it’s not their fault. My neighbors are like that, older relatives.etc because they grew up in competitive environment. and time when over-achievers were praised and also by that I mean who’s earning more. and Fast! another reason for my impatient behavior sometimes
This seems to me the greatest wounding that youāve experienced. Iāve experienced the same from my mother. She took my good results at school for granted, never praised me for that, and at the same time she looked for every opportunity to scold me. There was always something wrong with me, in her eyesā¦ and so I grew up with the belief that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. My self-esteem was zero.
Yes, I can totally relate! I know that feeling, but it must have been hard for you. In my case it was my grandfather. And even though I had good grades, It wasn’t enough! I felt literally pressurized to be in the Top 3 students! and yet I still made it as a Top 1st student till the end of high school. Just to feed their ego. So he can talk others like “look my grandson has always been the 1st”. But Because my mother and grandmother never criticized me for that and just loved me without any expectations from me. so It was kind of sane place for me. Otherwise, I swear I’d have to run in the jungle much earlier and never return. And sometimes I think how self-confident, fearless and full of hope kid I used to be. Because of the criticized father and my inner criticism over the years my self-confident and self-esteem is still quite low, and it did affect my career and relationships quite a bit. So I still have to work on my self-esteem and self-confidence.
The above is the excerpt from Pete Walkerās book āComplex PTSD: From Surviving to Thrivingā. It could be that you felt very unsafe and criticized when you showed vulnerability or weakness in front of your parents. This might have given you the message that being anything less than āperfectā means being judged and rejected. It also might have led you to believe that the person you are in the relationship with is there to judge you and criticize you.
To the degree that our caretakers attack or abandon us for showing vulnerability, to that degree we later avoid the authentic self-expression that is fundamental to intimacy.Ā The outer critic forms to remind us that everyone else is surely as dangerous as our original caretakers.Ā Subliminal memories of being scorned for seeing our parentsā support then short-circuit our inclination to share our troubles and ask for help.ā
Would you say this is true for you? I have more to say and Iād also like to answer your questions, but let me know if the above resonates with you?
Yes I believe I can resonate. Ā Because those lines hits me. As you know in my previous relationships, I wasnāt being my true self and shielded my heart.
You might even subconsciously believe that this is what relationships are all about: competition, who is better, who is more successful, who is more āperfectā. If so, you naturally want to either win in that competition (be the āmore perfectā one, and judge the other person for her supposed deficiencies), or you want to leave the competition altogether (not be in a relationship at all).
Okay so Iām not sure if my subconscious mind believes in that but Iām sure that my conscious mind doesnāt believe competition in the relationships. It was mostly fear of judgments, criticism and inability to express my emotions properly.
or you want to leave the competition altogether (not be in a relationship at all).
This part could be true though. Conscious and subconscious both levels
SereneWolfParticipantDear Tee,
Is that Romanian? Had to look it up but am still not sureā¦
Haha Yes
Oh I see, it was recent. What would they argue with you? That you shouldnāt take swimming classes because itās dangerous?
My mom was scared because in past my little brother had an accident at the river but luckily saved. I was with him that time and I didnāt knew swimming either. So itās like swimming and river are past fear for her..
Yeah, it does seem they are a little overprotective. I wonder how theyāve survived you leaving home at the age of 16 and living alone, if they are so worried about you even to this day? How did they even allow it?
Omg yeah It wasnāt easy! and they tried lot of things to make me stay. But I was really stubborn about it and figured every answer to their worries. And still, theyād call me every day for more than two months.
Yeah, and there might be a similarity with how your parents acted with you (and are still acting with you). Overprotective, trying to control you (although not succeeding), and doing it āfor your own goodāā¦
Oh you know what this could be right! š
Yes, it does seem like thatā¦ that you tend to behave in romantic relationships a little bit like your parents behave with youā¦
Yeah, need to break this pattern.
Yeah, itās pretty destructive for the relationship if you see the person as ālackingā and try to make them āperfectā. The person feels not good enough, whereas you put yourself in a superior position, and basically judge and criticize them for āunderperformingā. Of course, you can say itās all with a good intention, āfor their own goodā, but itās not a healthy, equal relationship.
Yes, and it makes them feel inferior which makes things even worse. Because they donāt feel much comfortable after that. Eg. āShare their true selfā And as the comfort decreases, means the distance is just increasing. Right?
In a healthy relationship, we accept the person as they are ā we donāt try to change them and mold them into something that we would like them to be. It doesnāt mean we need to tolerate and accept some of their bad habits, however fundamentally we donāt try to change the person to be something they are not. Itās like we look at them with love and acceptance, not with a measuring stick that says ānot good enoughā.
Yes I totally agree with you! But my critical self just tried to look what they can do better? Just like I did with myself.
Yeah, no wonder, because itās like youāre in a war with the person, trying to make her do what you think is right for her, and she wouldnātā¦ And maybe you think she doesnāt love you if she resists, if she has different priorities and preferences than you? And so you conclude itās not worth the trouble because things canāt be the way you want them to be?
Yeah so thing is that I did felt like they donāt care about me anymore because they donāt prioritize the same things. And after that Iām like well Iām doing this many things for them, Iām prioritizing them but If they donāt care why should I? I could be 10x colder than them (Crazy I know) and I did end my relationships in Iād say extreme anger. I felt it but I didnāt express that anger. I just wrote the letters that this isnāt working out and I donāt want it like this anymore. After that like we talked about āEmotional dependencyā, And I feel like I donāt need anyone to depend on.
Yes, it seems some of your friends tell you you need to āplay the gameā, which makes it look like some kind of competition, like who is going to outsmart whomā¦ Whereas a healthy relationship is not a competition, but a loving and supportive co-existence (or something like that, I canāt think of a better definition now).
Exactly! But I think it should be from both ways, right? It canāt work if Iām the only one being vulnerable and try to communicate clearly as possible. Or it could be same effect if I do that, But I think it depends.. Iām working on my heart shield, It doesnāt mean others wanna put out theirs
I imagine you havenāt had a healthy relationship so far, because of those emotional wounds and programming that stem from your childhood. So no wonder you fear more of the sameā¦ But what youāve experienced so far isnāt what a true relationship looks like. Trust that you too can have a healthy relationship, but youād need to heal some of your patterns before thatās possible.
I agree with you. You think Iām ready? Or I still need lot of healing even to start dating someone? I think now my goal should is being comfortable in dating first, So I donāt feel intimated quickly. You know what I mean? Also like just feel more confident around women and see all as equals.
Well, not particularly, I did get flowers from my husband. But weāve never really paid attention to that date, so I donāt consider it important. But we do have a very good and strong relationship, and thatās what matters most
Youāre right! Iām really happy for you š¤
And I wanted to ask… Weāre talking about already healthy and established relationshipā¦
But what can I do for just start the dating? Because tbh I still feel very new to all theseā¦
I mean like the learning the starting? Idk how to explainā¦ Since relationships I had without distance was lot of years ago and I already knew those women well, and they proposed, but I think that time I was really naĆÆve and I didnāt know what I was doing in the relationship.Itās been few days I started to feel hopeless and inferior at work, Just mood swings like that. And Iām feeling this pressure to get back doing productive things, and for a short while I am productive, but I searched, and I found that mood swings like those could be sign of bipolar disorder but Iām not sure. Itās like for a time being Iām feeling really good and after few minutes Iām like what am I doing? And then feel hopeless. Or this kind of things happen to an optimistic person?
SereneWolfParticipantBunÄ Tee,
I wish I could tell you I am feeling better, but I am not unfortunatelyā¦ Iāll let you know if thereās some progress finallyā¦
Okay Thanks. My well wishes šš½
Okayā¦ if you share about your own childhood and your own experience, that might have some weight and she might consider it. Also, you can say that nowadays children spend too much time on the internet, and itās not good for their health, so actually nowadays parents should encourage their children to go play outside and not try to keep them indoors.
This occurred to me because Iāve recently seen a cartoon about old and new trends. One of the illustrations shows the Old trend: mother pulling her son back to the house because heās been playing too much outside, and New trend: mother pulling her son out of the house, while he is glued to his smart phone
You always give great examples. Thanks! Iāll talk to her that way since I also think itās the same matter as you said. I do have problem for explaining things properly sometimes (More than I want to admit) So this would be helpful.
Well, if in the past she got worried about you for even as little as headache ā thatās a lot of worrying. Remember, what matters is what happened in your childhood ā thatās the imprint youāre living with ā even if now sheās not worrying that much. What did you do when sheād get worried about your headache, do you remember?
Well yeah past is lot of years so the imprintā¦ I donāt actually remember properly but what I do remember is that I just asked for written prescription to my sister (Sheās nurse) and then sheād be worried less since she is sure that Iāll be taking the medications.
Sure, that amount of worry is understandable, and since you were doing some really wild stuff, itās sort of obvious why you didnāt want to tell herā¦ But you also mentioned that she was worried when you wanted to learn how to swim, in a swimming pool with an instructor (if I remember well?). Thatās a bit of an excessive worry, in my opinion. How old were you then?
It was actually just recently few months ago. I started the swimming classis and after that I told them. So my parents wouldnāt argue with me. Heck theyāre even worried that Iām letting a stray cat inside my place. They be like she might have diseases and blah blah blah.. Iām like Iāll go to the vet and give her vaccination. So, you donāt have to worry about that. Literally no one in my family grown up with a pet. So I did see that coming.
Thing about them as they are scared of the things that they donāt know or experienced before. And Iām the opposite if I didnāt experience that thing, Iād get curious and explore it let alone the outcomes. Thatās why my family thinks that Iām a rebel šSo I was thinking about emotional enmeshment, which I suggested as a possibility last time, but based on everything weāve talked about so far, and how you behave in relationships, I donāt think this is the case with you after all.
Hmm yeah I donāt think soā¦
Youāve talked about this before ā that you get āoverprotectiveā i.e. controlling when you try telling your girlfriend that she should eat healthier, or have better sleeping habits. From what Iāve understood, you donāt just tell her āyou should get more sleep, staying late is bad for your healthā, and then sort of let it go, but you turn into this drill sergeant who is pushing her to eat healthier, sleep healthier, etc. Thatās the same drill sergeant who sometimes turns on you (in the form of the inner critic), and sometimes on the people close to you (in the form of the outer critic).
So it seems to me that the ācareā you show towards your partner has this overlay of criticism. And so you turn into this overprotective, critical father, who is watching his ādaughterāsā every step, trying to āimproveā her. You get so focused on her and her problems, that it consumes you completely and you canāt focus on your own life.
I think this type of dynamic is not emotional enmeshment, but more like that youāre focusing too much on her and her āwellbeingā (but in a bad sense, like an overbearing parent), and then youāre frustrated when she doesnāt want to take your advice. This then is frustrating to you and you rather give up, i.e. leave the relationship.
What do you think? Does this sound plausible?
Hmm I think itās plausible, it does have a connection. And I believe itās been weeks I havenāt awaken the drill sergeant.
But itās right I did act like an overprotective, critical father! Not all the time but stillā¦
And after that I get exhausted and give up on the relationship.
Striving towards Perfection (specially with Humans) isnāt a wise thing to do I guess… and I tried to make them āperfectā the way I wanted even though at that time I just saw it as a care and concerned about their health.
Or is it just like my parent thinks they still have to care about me like even though I’m not a kid anymore…
Yes, it was! But you know you donāt need to accept her marriage proposal, right?
Exactly! No rushā¦ If she wants to rush things, please know that you have the right to say No. Even if she doesnāt like thatā¦
Right haha! No I donāt need to accept her marriage proposal. Iāll still try to communicate clearly as possible.
The other day I was thinking about why I feel the way I feel and I thinkā¦ Like why I donāt have high expectations or even good expectations from the dating. And I could think of the possible reasons
- Iām emotionally exhausted from this
- External environment could be the big reason as well not just my friends but like everywhere I see it just that all be like itās lot of mind games and complex ā not like clear communication as it should be. So yeah itās like a confirmation bias
- The way I perceive my past relationships. Like Did I even had a healthy relationship before that Iām longing for it again?
So because of these reasons, I just feel more hopeless and I just feel not excited for dating. Not more than Maybe just some time spending and physical pleasure.
And yeah what about you? Did you celebrate valentine week?
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
You feeling better?
How old is he?
Heās like 7.5 Years old if I remember correctly.
I understand you, seeing yourself in himā¦ be polite though and very diplomatic when speaking to his mother. Parents donāt like to be given advice, unless they ask for itā¦
Yes I know but his mother is good natured and nice with me. So Iāll try to present this matter clear and calmly as possible. Because another thing I noticed is that I think sheās the main decision maker, her husband is naĆÆve and heās mostly saying yes to her. Itās actually funny to see them talking sometimes š
Ā
Yes, thatās typical for codependent relationships. Say if the parent is a worrying type, we try to make them not worry. If they are depressed, we try to cheer them upā¦ because when the parent is unhappy, the child is naturally unhappy too. So we do everything in our power to make them happy. Itās almost like a survival need, because having a happy, care-free parent is in the childās best interest. So weāre trying to regulate the parentās moods, so they could better take care of us.
Okay well thatās a new discovery for me. Until now I thought I only have to deal with my Fearful avoidant attachment style but now Iāll have to work on this one as well. But I donāt actually remember try to regulate my parentās moods, For example whenever my father is angry me and my siblings would just try to avoid him and not face him.
Do you think this was the case with you and your mother? That you felt you needed to make her happy, i.e. regulate her moods? And you felt guilty if she was not happy?
No. Not really. Because I even told her about my hypothyroidism, and she took it well. And in past there was times when even if I have a headache, sheād get really worried.
But as far as I can remember I didnāt tried to regulate her moods.
I do remember you mentioned you donāt like to make your mother worry, so you often donāt tell her if somethingās bothering you. You pretend that everything is fine, and put on that big smile of yours. This could be exactly because of this emotional enmeshment: you can only be happy if sheās happy. And if sheās worrying about you, you canāt be happy?
You said that your two previous girlfriends didnāt really put any constraints on your freedom (I had two different partners who were very accepting yet still I was worried about all these things.). But your guilt of displeasing them is very likely the same guilt you felt about displeasing your motherā¦ itās the guilt felt by your inner child.
I mean which mother doesnāt worry about her Ā kids? So itās obvious that she is worried sometimes and yeah in the past I tried to hide things from my mother because I was scared that sheād be worried because I was still just a high school boy going in wildsā¦ But I think now sheās not worried as before because she can see that Iām a grown up? Iām not sure though. So now I do feel comfortable sharing my things with her as per her level
Ā
Yes, and I believe it has to include separating yourself emotionally from your mother (i.e. your partner). And allowing her to be frustrated (for whatever reason ā be it because of you or unrelated to you), and yet feel good about yourself. Donāt make your mood and the feeling of happiness depend so much on hers.
Because it seems that your tendency is to get emotionally enmeshed when youāre in a relationship. Thatās frustrating and exhausting (and you feel guilty all the time), so you think the only way to prevent it is not to be in a relationship at all. But itās a false cureā¦
Hmm youāre right and what steps I can take for separating myself emotionally?
And Yes allowing someone to be frustrated because of me already seems very unpleasant.
Right I know itās not the cure because few days ago I was talking to one of my friend and she was like I have so much love to give and but Iām not allowing other people to give and receive to myself because Iām not letting close to me emotionally. And without this healthy exchange thereās this void.
Oh and kind of a funny thing happened on valentineās day. One of my friendās doctor proposed me š
There was definitely fight or flight response feeling because It was kind of sudden
But the thing was that I couldnāt say No! I felt like if I say no today sheād feel disappointed and then it would make me feel guilty. But I didnāt said yes either. I mean I said yes for a date. It was really bold move for her. So I was stunned and sheās actually really attractive as well soā¦ I mean here I am thinking about taking a bold move like that for years but š
Itās been like 3 months, and she only knows me because I go to her clinic with my friend every two-three weeks, and sheās actually younger than me.
But to be honest Iām not putting up any high expectations. Go on a date, get to know her a little bit and then maybe somethingā¦
SereneWolfParticipantOla Tee*
I addressed myself instead of you šSereneWolfParticipantOla SereneWolfĀ
Sure, itās always better to be in or close to a green areaā¦
Also, because it’s just lot easier for evening walks and bicycling!
How come? Is he ill or the family just changed their habits?
Yup. His family is trying to change his habits. Already making him “ready” for “elite” school.Ā Typical. ://
It did make me angry when I found out and even though I shouldn’t be in between but at right time I will talk to his mother. Because it’s like I’m seeing my past in this! and I don’t want him to go through what I’ve been through.
Right, so it seems you got the message that spontaneity, silliness, or rather playfulness (which are the qualities of the inner child) are not good qualities if you want to achieve something in life? And so you did your best to behave yourself, to hide that playful side of yours in front of other people.
Yes kind of…
Perhaps thatās why youāre struggling to show that side of yours to your partner, fearing that you would be judged? Because your parents and grandparents judged it too?
I guess so.. Maybe?
This is what I am reading from your words: that what you cherish the most is your freedom and ability to do whatever you want,Ā without feeling guilty.
It seems youāre very sensitive to your partnerās moods and are worried if she is worried, to the point of not being able to sleep:
hmm Yes that’s right…
What youāve described is similar to being co-dependent: your mood depends on your partnerās mood, and if she is unhappy, you have the need to make her happy. And you canāt be happy if sheās not happy. You canāt separate your own mood and happiness from that of your partner.
Also, you donāt want to cause any frustration to your partner, so youād rather cancel your plans than to see them disappointed. Youād rather adjust to your partner than see them displeased with you. However, you donātĀ wantĀ to adjust and stop doing what you love doing, since youāre a freedom-loving guy. So youād rather not haveĀ anyĀ relationship at all than have to sacrifice the things you love for another person.
The truth is that you donāt really have to sacrifice the things you love ā it is only yourĀ beliefĀ that you do. The problem you have (if I am seeing this correctly) is thatĀ you canāt stand your partnerās frustration. Itās too painful for you and you feel guilty. So rather than try to assert yourself or negotiate, you run away from the relationship entirely. Itās easier for you to live without a constant feeling of guilt.
Am I seeing this right?
Yes exactly! Because I think it feels like lot of sacrifice. it does include my partner’s frustration. But not always, There are times when I can be extremely stubborn about things and not give up until they agree. But another thing I felt that when people around me are sad I feel extreme need to help them in whatever way I can. It’s like people who are near me should be happy around me even though it’s not in my control yet I’m still trying to control that. And until I’m able to help them properly I feel anxious and restless. It’s like I feel very responsible even though I’m not.
But you’re right I need to work on this constant feeling of guilt…
SereneWolfParticipantOla Tee,
I am having another not so good period health-wise, so I am not too cheerful. But holding on, keeping hope that itās going to get better eventuallyā¦
Oh I see but Iām glad youāre keeping up the hope. I also hope youāll be better
True, I was told that Spanish and Italian are sort of similar. Donāt know about French ā everyone says itās pretty hardā¦.
Haha yeah French is not that much similar or say least similar in romance languages, also tongue twisting a lot. But Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are very similar to each other.
For a guy who watched a lioness give birthā¦ no wonder that cities are boring
Well even in the big cities I prefer outside areas not center areas just for near to wild and some more peaceful and farther from city noise.
Great! So at least intellectually you know youāre free to make your own decisions and no one is forcing you to tie the knot.
Yes I know that so I just have to stop fearing about it
Hahaā¦ I donāt even think itās possible with cats ā they are great individualists and pretty sneakyĀ Ā But you can be a father figure to that boy from the neighborhood, whom you were teaching how to ride a bike.
Haha I agree with you on cats. And yes I do spend time with him but less since heās spending more time indoors.
I get itā¦ thatās great that youāre in touch with your inner child! When you were a child, did you feel judged by your parents for being spontaneous and a little silly? Did they often tell you to ābehaveā?
Hmm they never had to tell me to ābehaveā because I was very observant. And grandfather used to talk about other kids of my age how much they have āaccomplishedā and well behaved they are. So without much thought I was like okay as a kid this age I have to be well behaved and not do many silly things like other kids doing who arenāt much āaccomplishedā
Can you give me an example? What in your life should be your way and you wouldnāt agree to any kind of compromise?
Thatās not an easy question to answer but Iāll try
Hmm I think my freedom and ability to do whatever I want. Because like in relationship I care too much and even if theyāre little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I canāt focus on my things.
After that I noticed that in relationships I just loose myself in the process because over caring and overthinking about partner. And it affects my mood and even the sleep soā¦
Back to the freedom part like I said If I even notice even a little that what I suggested made them uncomfortable I wouldnāt hesitate to change my plans just to see them not disappointed.
Also ability to go wherever I go. Itās like a parent would be like donāt go to hike there itās dangerous out there and then even after she said no and Iād go I feel guilty.
But I had two different partners who were very accepting yet still I was worried about all these things.
SereneWolfParticipantI don’t know why that post goes into moderation.
Anyways I have another question. Did you also had self-esteem issues growing up? How did you tackle it?
SereneWolfParticipantDear Tee,
How are you doing?Wow, youāre quite ambitious wanting to learn 3 new languages!
Well romance languages are kind of similar to one another, So not so hard and itās just fun watching old vintage French and Italian movies on weekends soā¦
I myself am more of an utilitarian type of person ā Iād do it only if I absolutely need it, e.g. if I want to live there.
Well thatās also good and feels like less burden I guess haha
So you too are keen to leave, right, because youāve started getting bored with the city you live?
Yes. I get bored pretty quickly. If there arenāt enough things that interest me
Great that you gave the newcomers the freedom to make mistakes, so they donāt need to feel so anxious! That, together with some meditation techniques, might be really helpful.
Yup! I really hope so
Well, the first thing is to become more mindful ā to slow down and observe yourself as youāre going through some of those triggering situations. To notice that e.g. āmy anxiety is going up because she mentioned a long-term commitmentā. You notice it and you know itās a trigger for you, which gets you to react defensively (fight-or-flight).
So if you donāt want to react defensively and run away immediately, you may want to take some slow breaths to calm yourself down. And you can tell yourself āI am being triggered nowā. Also, donāt judge yourself for being triggered. Instead, have compassion for yourself as youāre observing the surge of emotions and the impulse to run away.Okay so Iāll note this and try to work on that. Thanks! In some situations like when my anger gets triggered I do notice that directly, be mindful about it and then ask questions and calm it down after some slow breaths
So just breathe and observe yourself without judgment. That will help you stay in your rational brain and not be completely taken over by the limbic brain. Maybe this is enough for starters. Or you can also tell yourself something like āI donāt need to get married if I donāt want to. I am free to decide what I want to do.ā If you donāt trust these affirmations (i.e. if you donāt trust that you have the freedom to decide), youād need to work on that in therapy.
Hmm I think I can trust these affirmations if I reach to this step after being mindful about this specific trigger
But in any case, strengthening the observer part of yourself would be very important. Your therapist suggested the same: mindfulness. Be mindful, i.e. notice when you get triggered. And then try to slow down and calm yourself down, instead of reacting from your limbic brain, making rash decisions.ā¦.Yes I agree
Yes, when you make a mistake, or when you feel you should be doing more at work, call in the positive father figure and send the drill sergeant away
Yes thatās what Iām working on.. You think act as a father figure to my cat counts? š
Yes, youāve been independent since your teenage years, and it certainly made an impact on you. In fact, you said the reason you left home at 16 or 17 was that you didnāt want anyone (specially your parents) to tell you what to do and how to live your life. You wanted to be free from their grip and their control (and their judgment).
Living with someone and being partially ādependentā on them, or at least affected by them, probably causes a terrible fear in you. Because in your mind, it could be that living with someone means to be subject to their control, judgment, constraints to your freedom etc. Maybe you equate living with a partner to living with your parentsā¦. and it terrifies you?Hmm well thatās an interesting and clever of you to think from that perspective and I think yeah! I donāt like being even partially ādependentā on someone or affected by them. It could be because I like to control (Itās lot better than before but still) but not being controlled. Because I prefer some things should be my way. And It should be without judgements. Like I know Iām in touch with my inner child and I still do lot of things that an adult actually doesnāt do like I turned into a kid when Iām with kids, Different kind of bicycling, Singing and dancing for no reason (Lot of times while cooking, Watching Anime and Cartoons and lot of things like that) And I kind of fear they would judge me for that and not actually understand. And also constrains to my freedom is a big thing you see sometimes I canāt say No to a person even though Iād like to say No. But another reason is I really fear disappointing them. So yeah lot of things going on
Youāre afraid of intimacy, of being judged by the other, perhaps of being controlled by them and losing your freedom. As I said above, perhaps you see an intimate relationship a similar kind of prison like you saw your childhood and the relationship with your parents? And thatās why the very idea of living with someone in a committed relationship gives you the creeps?
Hmm I guess so.. with my parents It was mainly the freedom thing because of their overprotectiveness. But I do get what you mean in relationships we also get over caring and over protective.. or at least thatās something how I feel it
I am glad that your real connections are growing, and that you see me too as someone who supports your growth. I am really happy for you and am rooting for you, as you continue to walk your path!
Thanks a lot!šš½
SereneWolfParticipantDear Anita,
Your impact is immense here, So the energy you put here to give insights as well. But I guess maybe it could feel draining because it’s mostly giving and not receiving. and As humans we need receiving as well.Dear Lori,
I’m no expert but Maybe she needs a little space to recharge herself?SereneWolfParticipantAlso, I just finished watching the video you told me about – <b>Why itās important to stay connected.Ā </b>
It was insightful and something to think about
In video he gives good example of Phone’s network connection and asks where are you?
And after some thinking I’m just going back and forth to every connection type. But I’m more jumping on No connection to good connection (To get that next thing addiction)
about bad connection one thing is that now I feel like I’m working on it good enough that I don’t let other people judgments define me so even if they say something I don’t care about it. For example, like what my father told me in past and how critical he was, Yeah, I accept that it gave me an emotional wound to heal but I’m at least not letting that wound to get worse.
And for Real connection – and I think it’s a good reminder of what we talked about having a good supportive people around
I can safety say that my real connections are growing. They help me become who I and empowers me. You, Some good supportive friends, Good career mentors…
So Yeah I’m thankful for everyone and everything. šš½ -
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