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SereneWolf
ParticipantHello Tee,
My absolute favorite would be a nature walk with my husband, but since I am suffering with mobility in recent years, this is one thing I had to practically give up, and itâs very hard
Oh I can totally understand that. Nature walk are really soothing. And I guess even more when youâre walking with your S/O. I hope you get healthy soon so you can continue your nature walks
Oh I see⌠so you are always on the lookout, fearing that somebody (perhaps your boss or an authority figure?) might be displeased with you and lash out at you (verbally)? So youâre afraid of being judged when among people?
I mean I know theyâre professional they wouldnât lash out at me that easily but easily disappointed because of something? Yeah! But yeah Iâm afraid of being judged
You also donât like people who are constantly critical and try to dominate you (I guess because they remind you of your father?):
Yes Exactly!
I wonder if perhaps your mother showed some of the manipulative behavior in the past, e.g. when she would tell you to be âmatureâ and not react angrily to your father?
Hmm I guess so?
Could it be that you are sensitive to other peopleâs anger/frustration/negativity (because it reminds you of your father)? And that you are also sensitive to âweakerâ emotions, perhaps worry and sadness, because it reminds you of your mother?
I guess itâs bit of both? One of the reasons why I havenât been enough emotionally expressive. Because Iâd feel like Iâm being rude and insensitive to others
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I like the word! Good if you can appreciate her honesty and emotional expressiveness. You donât feel like she is trying to manipulate you with her emotions, right?
Well thatâs easy to answer as of now. Because you know when some people give you bad vibes even though theyâre acting nice with you? So, I donât think sheâs manipulating with her emotions.
Another thing is that itâs hard to know if sheâs emotionally mature or not. Because so far I do like her innocent emotional behaviour. Sheâs like a naĂŻve little girl who doesnât like to bottle up emotions like we âmatureâ adults do
What feels like the biggest work in your current relationship? Whatâs the hardest?
Self esteem, Being emotionally expressive, Being compassionate with myself thatâs what I can think about now
Yes, you canât be the only one âcarryingâ the relationship. Or as weâve talked before, if you are trying to change the other person and be their therapist, then of course it feels like hard work. Because you are trying to work against their own self-sabotage and their resistancesâŚ
And it took me years to realize that đ
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Well, youâll see relatively soon that the person has a lot of issues, they canât be happy, they are addicted, they are self-sabotaging, they are playing hot and cold (one day they are very into you, the next they are rejecting you and being distant) etc etc. So youâll be able to notice that somethingâs not right, that they are fighting an internal battle and canât be really present in the relationship. And then youâll let them go, instead of trying to âsaveâ themâŚ
Right I agree few days ago there was this reel on my IG. She was like after youâre healed, Itâs really easy to see red flags everywhere. And dating will be even harder because you wouldnât just settle with anyone. And there are lot of people who doesnât even know that they need to heal their selves.
Are you talking about the decisions you took in romantic relationships? Like when you followed your intuition and it turned out to be the right decision?
Haha no I mean like workwise decisions. But good question when it comes to romantic relationships, I didnât felt like Iâm taking a big decision.
Well, I think everyone who was exposed to prolonged emotional abuse suffers from CPTSD. Itâs a different name for developmental trauma â it didnât happen suddenly, like one traumatic event, but over a long time, i.e. while growing up. So I guess you have it, same as me and numerous other children with emotionally abusive/unsupportive parents.
Oh right I agree and I think thatâs also the reason that itâs giving me nightmares sometimes
Like just last night I had a dream that my father was angry at me and comparing me with someone but this time I didnât listened, and I got angry at him and told him lot of things that I wanted to tell him! It could be the sign that I still haven’t forgive him and I’m carrying that baggage?
Right… so youâre still afraid of their judgment. You still care what theyâll think of you, and I think itâs because a part of you still believes youâre not good enough. So you need their validation and approval.
Yeah which I think itâs really concerning thing to work on
Yes, you were criticized a lot, and you internalized that voice, and so now you donât only have the voice of your father and grandfather against you, but also your own inner critical voice. So itâs 3 to 1. Three critics to one helpless inner child. Fortunately, youâre developing the positive father voice to counter those critics. But it takes time, it doesnât happen over nightâŚ
Yeah itâs years of their sweat it doesnât going to just disappear over nightđ
But I wonât give up. I’m stubborn too so đ
What exactly did she suggest you talk to them about? I mean, if you still have an unhealthy emotional bond (which in my opinion is the fear of their judgement, i.e. the need for their approval), only you can release that bond. Only you can set yourself free.
Because as you said, your parents will likely not change. Theyâve changed somewhat in the sense that they (specially your father) isnât that judgmental with you any more. But I guess theyâll never approve of all of your decisions, e.g. theyâll never approve of you getting a tattoo
What I am saying is that if you want their blessing to live your life as you please, I donât think youâll get it. And I donât think itâs necessary either. There will be always something they will disagree with. And thatâs fine.
What youâd rather need is to free yourself from the need to get their approval⌠Itâs you who should set yourself free, not themâŚ
I mean I know what you mean and I agree. But she suggested me kind of things that Iâm feared to talk to them I already know their response (Somewhat) Itâs just kind of practice not letting my fear of speaking for myself to be grown even more..
Another thing I know my parents did things knowingly or unknowingly. But I don’t want to be a typical American psycho kid who thinks it’s cool to have not good relationship with their parents because of the rise of modern business “therapy”. Because at the end of the day the day they are part the family, and family does matter. And I’m not saying I want perfect relationship with them because I know it’s not possible, But just not hateful relationship.
This week it was my birthday, Iâm in my late 20s now. And oh dear I definitely felt like âTime is passing too fastâ I mean I know itâs normal and there wasnât any critical voice this time. But it does feel that time is going too fast and I donât know what Iâm trying to get a hold on, World is moving fast, I donât know why am I feeling pulled down and if I donât, I feel like Iâm missing out a lot as of my age.. I guess we always run for big achievements when we think itâs meaningful but after weâve achieved it, It just lost itâs meaning.. So itâs like a constant chasing something that weâre sure we wonât be satisfied withâŚ
SereneWolf
ParticipantNamaste Tee đ
I am doing a bit better at the moment, thank you. I do say this very cautiously because Iâve had improvements before, followed by a setback⌠but I am starting to feel a little more optimisticâŚ
Iâm glad to know that. Hope youâre having a good weekend. I have a question. What’s your absolute favorite thing to do on weekends that isn’t productivity related?
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You mean, when you are among people, you worry what people will think of you and you want to be liked? And you say things you donât really mean, or something like that?
Hmm not sure about that. But my main concern is I donât like when people feel discomfort around me or specially because of me. It could be because of my childhood wound as well. You see my fatherâs anger was always on the edge so whenever he was around even he was calm I was anxious that at any time heâd flip out so I was constantly anxious and worried about his mood swings.
Well, you said that being among people drains your energy and you donât know how to protect yourself from that. So I asked what are the behaviors you canât protect yourself from. But I guess the real question is: what is so draining when being among people? Perhaps what you said above â that you feel the need to âpeople pleaseâ? As in, maybe you feel the need to be liked, and so you canât be yourself and relaxed?
Okay I got it and I think It could a long list but generally I donât like manipulative behaviours, and most of the time I can sense when people are trying to manipulate me or the others.
I also donât like being around people who are always projecting negative energy and criticizing others all the time. Or when they trying to be dominant with me for what they want.
But I believe particularly sensitive to the emotions of others, and I kind of struggle with managing my own emotions in response to others.So she is emotionally expressive â she expresses her emotions freely. She is not shy to show anger and upset, but also joy and excitementâŚ. if I understood you well? How do you feel about that feature of hers?
I do think itâs kind of a healthy thing since I like things straight forward and itâs something that is easier to read from her? In my previous relationships none of them was this much emotionally expressive I had to ask them things so they can let out things you know.. Yet still I wasn’t sure about it. But Now I have this newfound appreciation for this kind of emotional authenticity? (Don’t know if that’s a right word)
Yeah, Iâd say that in the relationship department, so far you were alternating between a bad connection and no connection. You gravitated towards âno connectionâ in the past months, because you were disappointed with previous relationships. But then you decided to still give it a try. And now youâre in the middle of an experiment, of potentially creating and maintaining a good connectionâŚ
Well yeah I guess so.. But now Iâm realizing how much more work that I have to do.. and it feels like a lot
Hm.. I think that because of troubles with self-love, you easily get into the inner critic (or the outer critic), which then sabotages the relationship. So I think that for you, lack of self-love is what keeps you out of the relationship. Or when you are in a relationship, it prevents vulnerability and intimacy (because youâre afraid to be judged). So, although you may be in a relationship, you donât really engage in emotional giving and receiving. I mean, it seems that so far you havenât. Now, in this latest relationship, this might changeâŚ
Oh yeah that is right. So I need to work on healthy emotional giving and receiving.
Actually, when both parties are emotionally more or less healthy and free to be themselves, a deep intimate relationship isnât that hard to maintain. It sort of flows spontaneously⌠But a lot of work goes into getting to that point of being emotionally healthy, thatâs true.
Yes but finding that kind of a person isnât easy either. With me, I got really emotionally invested and thought I can work and maintain on these things but yeah itâs definitely a two-person job.
There are no guarantees that she is âthe oneâ. But as you grow emotionally more healthy, youâll be able to recognize people who are wholesome and healthy themselves, and you wonât end up wasting your time in draining relationshipsâŚ
Hmm really? How Iâd be able to recognize that?
Yes, be mindful that a lot of those questions (âWhat if I get bored, what if I am wasting my time, what if I get to like her and will need to work hard to maintain the relationship?â) are coming from your fearful self. They are fear speaking through you. And you are learning now to face this fear, not to get into its trap again. So yes, be mindful, just notice it as a strong voice in you, however itâs not the only voice in you. Itâs not the voice of your true self.
Yes I agree itâs nothing less than going on a war with my own self. Fighting with my own fear. Thing that Iâm trying to do is that trying to make notes from my past where I took decision and I was right about it so my rational mind donât always ask me question about it and be little more confident you know.. and I guess It could affect my self-esteem as well. But if you have better suggestion you’re more than welcome
Yes, surrender as in accept the things as they are, even if they are bad at the moment. And hope that they will get better⌠so yes, I am learning to accept it, but also not to lose hopeâŚ
Thatâs good! Keep it up! đ
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Wrist, ankle, forearm, underneath the collarbone, hip area⌠I am no expert, but am sure there are a lot of ideas on the internet.
I do have Pinterest board but itâs been a while and itâs not easy to choose.
I also had an appointment with my therapist. She told me Iâm doing quite good progress. And I talked about CPTSD as well. So listened things carefully and ask me lot of scenario type questions about my childhood. But she said she isnât sure about and said there is really mild signs about it. But still we can work on it.
One of the questions that could be helpful for us.
So she already know that Itâs been a while that Iâm living on my own.
So she asked me What happens if you buy something expensive without asking your parents? How theyâd react and how youâd feel?
And I said Iâd still feel hesitant about it because Iâd be worried what theyâd think and feel guilty because I havenât even asked them.
So she asked me questions like that and said I still have fearful emotional pattern that I need to work on. Even though now Iâm financially independent now Iâm still attached to this kind of unhealthy emotional bond⌠She actually suggested me to talk more with my parents about this kind of things so they would be aware that Iâm much more grown up than what they might think
Fearful emotional patten and self-esteem these two things mainly she gave me homework for… Because like we talked, she said because of long term of criticism from every side (even my inner critic) My self-esteem took lot of damage and I have to heal that…
SereneWolf
ParticipantHola Tee,
How are you doing?Definitely itâs a good experiment to try to socialize more and see how you feel about people⌠if you still feel theyâre very different and you feel like an alien?
Right but Iâm kinda getting that I still have people pleasing behaviour
Are you saying that she gets upset by something (some human behavior), and this same behavior doesnât affect you that much? Or she gets super excited about something, and youâre like âmeh, nothing specialâ?
Yes kinda like that.
And there was also a bad connection, Iâd say, during your LDR. Because that relationship was mostly frustrating for you, right?
Well yeah I guess we can count as a bad connection
Yes, for example we should love ourselves and feel lovable, without needing to get love from someone else. Or we shouldnât feel helpless like a child and wait for someone else to fix our problems. I think those are examples of emotional self-sufficiency.
But I think because self-loving is still isnât easy for me maybe thatâs why Iâm finding myself going towards emotional giving and receiving
Yeah, youâd probably like to fix the problem ASAP and make them stop (crying, or being upset or whatever). Whereas the best thing you can do is to simply listen and show empathy. You donât need to fix anything, and your partner doesnât even want it, in most cases. They only want empathy and understanding (remember that short video about the nail in the head? )
Yes I do remember that well and as Iâm practicing empathy, but I guess because of my work, my problem solving abilities takes the turn first you know đ
Oh I see⌠youâre filtering all critical and unsupportive people from your life⌠cool! good strategy!
Thanks hahaOkay, so you can ask yourself: what if I like her more with time? Whatâs the worst thing that can happen?
Umm a serious hard maintaining relationship that I have to work hard for!?
Or what if I feel bored with her after some time? And like what if she is not on the same page as me?
Exactly the thing that Iâm scared about⌠Wasting my time and energy on a person
She is different than the usual type youâre attracted to (insecure, low self-esteem). I think thatâs whatâs scary because you canât apply the usual tactics of your outer critic, which would be to see her as inferior and imperfect (which would then serve as an excuse to distance yourself from her). The inner critic is trying to sabotage you, by telling you you are worse than her in some respects. But nowadays youâre watching for the inner critic and youâre not believing everything it says. So the inner critic isnât managing to sabotage the relationship so easily eitherâŚ
But something in you (hint: the inner child) is still afraid, and so youâre coming up with these what-if questions, which serve the same purpose: to sabotage the relationship. My suggestion is to notice that too: that these what-if hypothetical questions serve the same purpose, and so not to give too much weight to them. If you want to try to push through the fear some moreâŚHmm so basically be mindful and not overthink about these things? Well Iâm trying and yeah youâre right I maybe comparing myself like that but I know that we both donât have be perfect in every regard. We can just learn things from each otherâŚ
Thank you! Yes, itâs hard when it gets physical, when itâs your body that aches and there is no escape from pain.
Yes I can understand even though I donât have much experience with physical pain but the thing is I did spent time with people close to me in the hospital and it doesnât feel easy.
I feel that I could much more easily deal with emotional pain than with physical pain.
Well at least one less thing to worry and you worked on yourself all these years, so I guess thatâs why itâs much easier for you
Because I canât just think about it differently, so that it doesnât cause pain any more. Although I think I can still be telling myself a positive, optimistic story, or I can be telling myself a negative, hopeless story (like that Iâll never get better). And that too makes a difference⌠But itâs hard, thereâs no doubt about itâŚ
Yes, it is hard. When I talked to my therapist first time, she explained the Surrender in that way. Because as a human nature we want to know things for sure, Otherwise because of uncertainty we get anxious.. and result even more less energy⌠So I believe surrender + hope are much better in situations like this..
Whatâs the worst kind of behavior that you feel you canât protect yourself from?
Hmm Iâm not really sure đ¤
I guess I have think back analyse more
You meant like behaviours that I canât tolerate?No, I donât have any tattoos. Not my style, and besides, Iâve got many birthmarks, so Iâd worry about damaging those. So no, no tattoos for me
Oh that many birthmarks? So itâs like your body jewelry?
If you worry about how the tattoo will look, Iâd choose a spot which doesnât depend on your muscular mass. So somewhere where it always looks the same, regardless of how fit you are
Hmm and those are? đ
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
Yes, definitely. I mean, a part of the problem could be that youâre an introvert and you donât feel good in large crowds (I am like that too!). But a part of the problem could be that you see people as different, and yourself as alien, and this might contribute to feeling trapped or endangered in some way.
Well yeah youâre right and thatâs why these days I do try to socialize more. (As an experiment) Thatâs why I noticed that and I told you⌠Iâm just too much comfortable with my own company but I do need to get out of my comfort zone without draining my energy. And Iâm an ambivert.
In what sense? Can you give me an example?
Like for me Iâm not much emotionally expressive. Or like I just donât get surprised with lot of human behaviour or things. I find it really normal. But her she like really emotionally expressive like a high school girl who feels too much you know đ
Great! At least youâre aware what to watch out for, and even if you start comparing yourself with others, you can recognize it as an inner critic mechanism, and know that itâs a lie, itâs an illusion, not reality.
Yes! And before there was time where I used to just blindly believe everything my inner critical voice told me because I didnât know the difference between my own self and inner critical voice.
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Well, this term âemotional self-sufficiencyâ just kind of came to me, I havenât read it anywhere. I did look it up now and it has both positive and negative connotations. But what I meant is that we are wired for connection (Henry Cloudâs video âWhy itâs important to stay connectedâ talks about it. I mentioned it a while ago and I think you watched it).
I see but this term is pretty self-explanatory so I get it, And Yes Iâve watched the video and I told you that Iâm mostly between good connection to no connection back and forth
Healthy relationships are good for our health and well-being. For example, married men live longer. And for women, those women live longer who have a network of supportive friendships. So emotional giving and receiving is very important. In that sense I said that emotional self-sufficiency isnât a good thing: itâs not good if we donât have emotional exchange and connection with anyone. And if we guard ourselves from it.
It doesnât mean we should be needy and clingy. Someone who is alone can be happy and fulfilled too. But someone who is emotionally healthy will not guard themselves from emotional closeness with safe and supportive people. Because thatâs what makes our life richer and more enjoyableâŚ
Hmm I see so you mean there should be a good balance right?
So youâre afraid you wouldnât know how to react if your partner is sad or anxious?
I mean I know what to do but I just overreact in those particular situations and try to make them in better state ASAP otherwise I feel anxious as well.
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I guess youâre filtering out the very strict and judgmental types automatically â youâre not attracted to that type of girls. I mean, your current girlfriend is self-confident, but sheâs probably not judgmental like your father, so it doesnât trigger the escape reflex immediately?
Haha I donât remember Iâve been with any strict and judgmental type girl even as female or male friend. Creating the good supportive circle you know? đ
But I think that possibility of turn this into something else is just scaring me like what If I like her more with time? Or what if I feel bored with her after some time? And like what if she is not on the same page as me? So questions like this as well her different but confident persona is something I feel…I think thatâs just an excuse. Because there are girls who like traveling and exploring similarly like you. Maybe girls wouldnât appreciate some reckless feats, if thatâs what youâre into. But definitely there are adventurous types out there, with whom you wouldnât need to miss out on anything.
Well yeah I know but because I still havenât met those types girls much itâs just my old belief I guess
Staying positive and optimistic in spite of persistent health problems and chronic painâŚ.
Inner and outer youâre dealing with both of these things which isnât easy at all. Iâm proud of you and I hope you progress better and healthier way with that. đ¤
Absolutely yes. Itâs when our rational mind is not in the forefront, and weâre in touch with our senses and our intuition⌠thatâs when the best ideas comeâŚ
Yup. I love it!
Maybe this is same problem that you were talking about above â you donât like crowds because they drain your energy? But maybe it can be applied to certain people too â they drain your energy and you donât know how to protect yourself from that?
Yes exactly and I don’t know how to protect myself from that for sure!
As for not falling asleep in the afternoon, how about watching some of those videos on your watch list?  (Turns out it was already on my watchlist but I still havenât watched it.) Because for me, such videos (not all, but with good presenters) can be quite captivating and not something Iâd doze off with.
I agree! And turns out I already watched that video and when we were talking about implementing new things for fresher employees. Video was one of the reason for that idea! Also it made me think deeper about vulnerability as well as empathy. And how important connection is⌠But another thing I liked about the video is the storytelling. As a Leader I think itâs really important skill to cultivate.
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I see⌠well, how big of a tattoo are you planning? If itâs huge and sort of âin your faceâ, it might not be good from a business perspective either â if you want to present yourself as a solid business person. But if itâs something more discrete, itâs very common nowadays and not a big deal. And if it would make you happy, why notâŚ
Haha Nothing that shows too much. Like not on the face or neck. But l prefer around the shoulder, back, hands, biceps and maybe chest. Â But yeah mostly desecrate. Yeah I know itâs normal nowadays but there are two things. One judgment from my family and another thing is that gaining enough weight so tattoos look much better. Have you got any tattoos though?
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
Next week I have an appointment with a new doctor, so I am hopeful but also slightly apprehensive, because Iâve been to several doctors already and no improvement so farâŚ
Oh I see, I can understand but who knows maybe this one can give you much better results? So be hopeful. Update me when you do give a visit though.
Okay, so you feel very different than others, like youâre some alien. Thatâs probably because your true self wasnât appreciated by your parents or grandparents (or other adults you grew up around). You were constantly judged and criticized for being yourself. So you believe that youâre fundamentally different from other people, which isnât true.
However, you might have developed a defense mechanism that keeps you away from others and makes you fear others, as if theyâre going to harm you. You might be looking at people through that lens, magnifying the differences, seeking imperfections in them etc. This lens, i.e. filter is what actually creates a greater sense of distance between you and others. I think this filter is creating an artificial sense of distance and difference, which in reality doesnât exist.
Hmm thatâs right. Is that could the same reason I canât spend longer time around the crowds? Because it just drains my energyâŚ
You said is about yourself too (or a friend of yours said it about you, I donât remember anymore?). They said that you have a heart full of love, but are afraid to share it with others. And itâs true. Because you fear others.
Ah yeah my friend told me about this for myself. But yeah I agree there is fear
Yes, vulnerability is actually a strength. There is a famous TED talk on vulnerability by Brene Brown. It describes how she, who was someone who feared vulnerability, discovered the importance of vulnerability, by studying hundreds and thousands of happy people. She discovered that vulnerability is actually a prerequisite for happiness. You can enter âBrene Brown vulnerability TED talkâ in youtube search and youâll find it. Really powerful stuff.
Thanks for sharing Iâll watch the video. Turns out it was already on my watchlist but I still havenât watched it. Still lot of articles left to read as well. Don’t know where the time is going lol đ
Itâs good that she has this strength! Because she wonât be playing games with you. She will tell you what bothers her and what she would like from you.
Hmm I hope so⌠She seems quite sensitive
But I want to add something here: try not to compare yourself now and think âoh she has this strength and I donât. I am so much worse than herâ (which would be your inner critic). Rather, try to appreciate her for her ability to be vulnerable. You too will develop this strength, and youâre on a path to do that. Because frankly, till recently you thought it was a weakness, and a part of you still thinks itâs a weakness. So it will take some time to change the old habits and beliefs.
Oh yeah youâre right Iâm not comparing and I am aware that Iâm capable for cultivating good emotional patterns for myself (Or at least Iâm trying)
Youâre welcome, you are making a great progress! Actually, we humans are social creatures, and weâre meant to be interdependent, not independent. I mean, weâre not meant to be emotionally self-sufficient (if there is such a word). Weâre not meant to be in a relationship with only ourselves, and not to be bonded to anyone. Being independent is good up to a point. But if you want to be emotionally independent and self-sufficient, thatâs already a defense mechanism.
Wow! So this challenged me for lot of things that I’ve consumed in reading and watching over the years. And kind of really challenging for my old belief. But If you have any recommendations for articles or videos or just you want to explain by yourself you can elaborate more this with me. Because I do understand what you mean but I donât have clear picture just for meta thinking with myself you know
The other part of the problem might be that in a relationship, you feel trapped, like a fish in a bowl of water. And I think it could be because you see the other person as a threat. As very different than you. As judging you. As wanting to control you and suppress your true self.
Yes exactly I do feel trapped one of the reasons Iâm scared for commitment. But mainly for controlling because their actions would affect me a lot emotionally. Like if my partner is anxious or sad it affects me directly.
You probably see the other person as your father, and itâs threatening your freedom, and you want to run away. You want to be free, like a fish in the river. You ran away from home, because of this feeling of being trapped. And now you want to apply the same coping strategy to your romantic relationships: run away, be free from âthreatâ. Would you say itâs true?
I donât know if I see other person as my father because then I believe I wouldnât even want spend lot of time with.. I donât know how to explain properly but yeah I guess Iâm running away because that feeling. But there are other reasons as well. Like Itâs my curiosity so Iâm just striving for exploring more and novelty so I donât feel like Iâm missing out..
Youâre welcome, itâs a pleasure to talk to you and help you on your pathâŚ
Haha Iâm glad. Currently what kind of emotional patterns that youâre working on?
Yeah, I find that visiting the same places in nature â the places that I like and enjoy â is totally okay, because they recharge me. And they are never the same, really, there is always something different to appreciateâŚ
Totally agree and sometimes it kind of gives me solutions out of nowhere have you experienced it before?
Glad your job isnât boring. Then I guess simply spending time at home, comfortably seated in front of your computer, and being alone, naturally makes the person want to take a nap  If you were in the office, you would need to control yourself better, but like this, itâs easier to just doze off⌠So if you want to avoid afternoon slumps, I guess one solution would be to work from the office more frequently
Haha I donât think thatâs a good idea since being around with lot of people for a while takes up my energy a lot. Heck even if itâs just a single person and if I donât like spending time with him/her it just drains me. Same goes for outside work as well. But I’m aware as for my position I do have to learn to overcome this challenge.
Okay, so youâre still afraid of their judgment? Both your fatherâs, grandfatherâs and your brotherâs judgment as well? Btw whatâs that âsomething crazyâ that youâd want to do, but are reluctant to (if itâs not too much to ask)?
Hmm so Iâm thinking about getting a tattoo. And my grandfather is always saying ânot niceâ things about getting tattoos so whenever I think about getting a tattoo for few minutes I do feel good and think about ideas and etc and after that I overthink what would my grandfather say? Sure he wouldnât like it.. same for my father.
And actually a while ago I stopped this kind of thinking what others or even my own family is thinking about me but I think Iâm kind of back to this
SereneWolf
ParticipantHey Tee,
my weekend was fine, thanks. Still doing the same health-wise, so my leisure time isnât as active as Iâd want it to be, and itâs not a good feeling. I hope things will change for the better, sooner than laterâŚ
Oh I hope you’ll be better. You still havenât found a good doctor?
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Yeah, you got impatient and started pushing her. She didnât like it, and it was this superior-inferior dynamic, rather than an equal, loving and mutually supportive relationship. But I guess youâve realized by now that this isnât how a relationship should be, and that you shouldnât be the girlâs therapist.
Yup I think Iâve learned my lesson there haha
Uh-oh⌠itâs not good news for the girl then Yeah, you said earlier that you find it easier to bond with animals than with humans⌠If we miss someone, it means we created an attachment (a bond) with them. And I guess since you are afraid of attachment, you donât easily create a bond⌠and so you donât really miss the person either. At least this is how I am understanding itâŚ
Yes, I think youâve explained it well. Also most of the time I have to try to blend in around strangers, Other times Iâm like what these humans are? How I could even be the same as them? Like Iâm some alien đ
She did miss you, because she told you so (she wanted to text you to tell you that, but she deleted it). And she was upset that you didnât text her. So she did miss you indeed⌠I am glad she isnât angry with you anymore!
Iâm starting to think there are lot of people who have heart full of love and they would love to share their love but it isnât easy. It needs guts to trust on that level and vulnerability. And now Iâm thinking as like peopleâs strength. And she certainly have this strength. For me admitting to someone that I miss them is really hard. Heck I donât even remember when I did that last time.
Great, fantastic that you can enjoy the present moment more, without overthinking too much and being scared. And itâs amazing that youâre realizing you are not hard to love!! Thatâs wonderful, SereneWolf, really a great development!
Thanks! you know realizing this makes the process of loving myself little easier. But it made me think like if I rely on that feeling doesnât it make me dependable? Which is against one of the values that I have. Being self-independent.
And I think you know the answer to âwhy have I been so hard on yourself for so longâŚ?â Because of you having being judged and criticized as a child, and developing that harsh inner critic. You were made to believe that you were hard to love, when itâs not true at all. And now, as youâre starting to have more compassion for yourself, youâre starting to feel love for yourself too, and that youâre not hard to love⌠the inner critic is getting weaker, as well as that old programmingâŚ. I am really happy for you!
I agree and after getting stepped up from these old programming I donât want to step back and just keep rounding for the same things and waste my physical and emotional energy. So Iâll try to spend more time in journaling and convincing my inner child even more. So he doesnât see this as like bowl of water but more like a riverâŚ
Great! Youâre being mindful and repeating those affirmations, and it helps you stay in the present moment, feeling love, rather than fearâŚ. Wow, amazing! I am proud of you, SereneWolf!
Youâve put quite a time and effort on me as well. So thanks to you too. Iâm grateful to have a supportive friend/mentor like you đđ˝
Yes, you feel intimidated by those you feel âless thanâ. The goal is to feel âgood enoughâ and worthy always, even if someone is more talented in some areas than youâŚ
Yes thatâs something Iâm struggling with⌠I feel like Iâm threatened or challenged
Right⌠okay, so perhaps you didnât seek praise and validation so much. You rather wanted âresultsâ, like the drill sergeant wanting results from the novices. It could be that you adopted the persona of your father a little, who was also quite critical and impatient with you. Only you tried to hide your impatience with your ex, while you father didnât temper himself at all, he gave you the full power of his angerâŚ
Yeah even in work Iâm really result-driven. So youâre right I may have adopted his persona. As Iâve told now Iâm much better at managing my anger and be calm as possible. Because to be honest after I started practicing spirituality nothing seems like a big deal to me.
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Okay, wish you luck with finding a good remote job! But while youâre still tied to one place, could you go travel on the weekends and spend time in nature? So reserve the weekends for adventure and âbattery chargingâ?
Thanks for your wishes! And I already do that on weekends. But I want to visit different places every weekends not the same places. But yeah itâs true that even though most of the time Iâm visiting same places now it doesnât bore me because spending time in nature does recharge me so well.
Well, maybe your job is a little boring?  But does it also mean youâre working mostly from home and no need to go to the office?
My job isnât boring. Or I guess now it seems boring because I saw more exciting opportunities? haha.. and currently Iâm working on hybrid mode. 2 days office and 3 days from home. They wanted the other way like 3 days from office but I convinced them for 2 days lol
So you dreamed about your father, grandfather, brother and you all getting angry and yelling at each other? Not at the same time, but first your father got angry with you, and then you and your grandfather had a fight, and than in the next dream you and your brother had a fight, right?
Yes!
It could represent anger as the âmodus operandiâ among the men in your family?
Well all 3 are impatient and gets angry real fast soâŚ
And that it affected you as well?
I think for impatient part yeah I guess so
I mean, thatâs only my suggestion. What do you think it represents?Umm Iâm not sure but I still may have fear? Like still if I want to do something crazy I know they wonât stop me but my mind first think like what they would think about me and judge me or something like that
SereneWolf
ParticipantHola Tee,
How are you doing? How was your weekend?
Thatâs interesting⌠since therapists are vowed to confidentiality and they are non-judgmental per definition. But some people are like that with authority figures, and maybe a therapist in her mind meant a judgmental authority figure, and it scared her⌠But it could have also been an excuse, because if someone rejects therapy, and hasnât even given it a try, it usually means they donât really want to change in a deeper wayâŚ
I guess so yeah and I was just worried so much about her healing that I didnât even try to look from different perspective, and I believe after a while my âdrill sergeantâ just started being harsh on her
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Well texting all day (i.e. making it the only way of communication) is tiring, but this would have been more like a check-in text, just to show youâre thinking of her. And since you were at your parentsâ place, you had an excuse why it would have been only a short text..
Haha yeah you do have a good point. But when I was at my hometown tbh only thing I really missed was my cat đ¤Ł
I am not sure itâs more connecting, but itâs a good replacement for texts. If you want more connection, a phone call would be much better, in my opinionâŚ
We talk on phone call but not that much frequentlyâŚ
Okay, but she could have texted you too, if she was so keen. So itâs like she expected you to text, and was angry when you didnât, but she hasnât texted you either. She only admitted later that she wanted to, but then deleted it. I mean, I understand she is upset and feels like you donât care, but she could have texted you firstâŚ
I know right!?
But I think I know the advantages of physical relationship now. We met this Saturday evening, and her anger was gone. She hugged me with good warmth like she actually missed me. And we did have a good time together. She even cooked for me. but surprising enough I don’t feel much scared now because I’m not overthinking much and like we talked about mindfulness I’m just trying to enjoy present moments more… Because this different kind of feeling makes me feel like I’m not hard to love then why I’ve been so hard on myself for so long and not being compassionate with myself?
There’s good quote from Lord Krishna which I remembered so, Love when you can, Tomorrow isn’t promised. so I’m just reminding myself kind of things like this which could help me for loosen up my heart shield.
Well, your fear is still strong. Thatâs why you rather play it cool and uninterested. Youâre doing the avoidant pattern.
Yes exactly!
And it could lead to breakup with time, specially if she expects a normal level of interest and dedication from the guy. And I guess she does, thatâs why she is so upset. So yeah⌠youâd need to decide what you want. Do you want to challenge your fear, or you want to succumb?
Well I can try to challenge my fear
The perfectionist likes to fix people whom he sees inferior than him in some way. Itâs more like a defense mechanism, because if you see the person as inferior and in need of fixing, then you feel safe because you feel youâre above them (âbetterâ than them) and therefore, they wonât judge you.
Ah right also the reason why I donât feel intimidated around them and not alarmed…But with people “better than me” I do feel intimidated.
Thinking about your 3-yr long LDR, perhaps the perfectionist in you needed to receive praise and validation from her, because this is something you were missing as a child. But it could be that she didnât give you too much praise and validation, because you said she often sabotaged your meetings, didnât listen to your advice etc?
So I am thinking now that your perfectionist fixer is possibly a reaction to not receiving praise and validation from your parents? And trying to get it now in romantic relationships?
I do think so it could be like that even though lot of time she did praised me how Iâm helping her but all I wanted was seeing a real change and actions which she didnât.
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that interview⌠sorry you didnât get the job. But then again, at least youâre clear now with what you want: a position with more responsibility, fully remote. How come youâre sticking to fully remote btw? So youâre more flexible with where you live?
Yes because of the fully remote job flexibility. I also want to start travelling more because I think connecting with nature is really healing for me and I feel so calm. One of the reasons why I’m trying so hard.
Alright, so youâre doing that Mon-Friday, during working hours? Youâre having long naps in the afternoons, and then you need to work late to finish your tasks, right? Perhaps you can introduce a short walk (or even a bike ride) in the afternoon, to freshen you up?
Yes during work hours! But Iâve tried what you suggested but now Iâm feeling sleepy at early evening time đ
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Sure, no problemâŚ
Thanks. So Iâm not sure itâs related to CPTSD. But like just last three times in raw I had nightmares about my family members. First night my father getting angry and then my grandfather and I yelling at each other and then next day while taking a nap, my brother which is surprising because weâre very close to each other and it did felt really unpleasant and depressing. I wasnât even able to do meditation properly in the morning.
SereneWolf
ParticipantOla Tee,
yes, itâs emotionally draining, specially when you see the same issues come up again and again⌠and nothing changes.
Yes Exactly! And that repetition was making me angry a lot but I bottled up my anger.
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Yep.. people who donât want to seek therapy usually donât want to really help themselves. They tend to complain and maybe feel a bit better when you encourage them, but this only lasts for a short while and they slip back quickly into their old patterns. So no real change happens.
Yes and Iâve tried but perhaps she had even deeper trust issues than me, so she didnât wanted to share anything with a therapist (Or a stranger as sheâd like to address)
and even for me I donât think moving from old patterns is that easy.Â
Yeah, thatâs you not wanting to show neediness and vulnerability. So there was a moment when you did feel like texting her (that was a spontaneous impulse), but then you shut if down, for fear of appearing needy.
Yes I think so, Also because Iâm kind of bored of texting but if I rethink in person Iâm not that much better. So I guess I just need more âin-personâ practice.
Well, your fear got in the way. You can still repair the damage, if youâd want toâŚ
I did tried it. Iâve tried to encourage for voice notes since itâs time-saving for both of us and also more connecting? And seems like sheâs okay with it.
But yeah sheâs definitely not a person who forgives you easily. I could notice that from her tone of voiceđŹđWhat are you telling yourself, i.e. whatâs your internal dialogue, which makes you believe it will soon end?
That Iâm not ready for this and sheâs gonna turn her back anytime.
Correct! We hope to change our parents, and then we hope to change our emotionally unavailable partners, but we donât succeed. And it leads to disappointment.
Hmm so for expectations like this itâs just a perfectionist inside me trying to âfixâ others? So as we talked I still need to work on my acceptance part gradually.
Remember that I told you about the interview? Turns out I didnât got that job. But Now that rejection made me feel like no matter what I want more responsible fully remote position like that. So I started to apply and got more rejections and now I feel even more down
And nowadays Iâm also getting crazy afternoon slumps. Like after 1PM I canât of think anything but eating and sleeping. Iâm taking more than 2-3 hours long naps and then be like oh day is already ended.. So now Iâm mostly finishing my work at late night. Itâs been like a month! So kinda it turned into a habit.
And yeah I also want to go deeper into CTPSD things we’ve talked about if you don’t mind
SereneWolf
ParticipantDear Tee,
I have, but he wasnât helpful at all⌠so Iâll keep looking. And thanks for your support!
Ah I see, Hope you find a really good doctor that helps for your health much better
Yeah, supporting each other is a natural thing in a relationship. But if itâs one-sided and youâre âsupportingâ, i.e. trying to heal her all the time, thatâs not healthy. I mean, youâre not her therapist, youâre her boyfriend. It doesnât mean you canât talk about issues, you sure can, but deep emotional wounds can only be healed in therapy, not in a romantic relationship.
Yes I knew that well but since she wasnât comfortable opening up with therapist I felt like I should help her much as much as I can. But in result it just emotionally drained me because yeah it was one-sided help. And it sometimes it made me question myself like does it even matter to help people? because at the end of the day theyâre going to do just whatever they want.
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Okay, I like that she was honest about wanting to text you, but then deleting it. So she showed her vulnerability after all, even if at first she wanted to hide it.
Yes I do feel bad though. Because in short time sheâs quite vulnerable with me and Iâve disappointed her already.
How come you didnât text her at all while you were away? Didnât feel the need, or you stopped yourself because it would have seemed âweak and needyâ?
Well kind of yeah both reasons I didnât feel the need and when I did feel it I was like letâs not rush sheâs going to text if she wants it, Why should I seem needy first? Thatâs what I was thinking
Right⌠whatâs the first thing that comes to your mind when she says âI miss youâ?
Overthinking and fear I suppose. Like now relationship is gradually getting deeper but soon it will end
Yes, we (our inner child) is trying to finally get our distant/unloving parent to love us. Only now itâs not the parent but our romantic partner whom weâre trying to change.
Hmm I seeâŚ
  but we believe we can finally turn them aroundâ
But we actually canât and thatâs what disappoints more. Right?
Okay, so if the inner critic can still make you believe youâre not good enough, it means that your inner child feels not good enough. And youâd need to tell your inner child that he is precious and talented and lovable, and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with him.
I do try to pep talk with him time to time.. but not much frequently
When those thoughts of ânot good enoughâ start popping up in some form, try to be like general Iroh to your inner child and tell him how precious he is. And that whoever tells him differently is a liar and doesnât know a thing!
Youâre right! Iâll try to do that more
Be aware of it. I think the main duality in you is 1) the inner child who is afraid of judgment and believes he is unworthy, and 2) the protector (which is the shield around your heart) who wants to protect your inner child from harm. But he is doing it by wrong means â by shutting down intimacy and vulnerability altogether.
What would need to happen is that you be a good parent to your inner child and assure him that he is worthy (as I described above). And you also assure him that youâll protect him from other peopleâs judgments and mistreatment (by setting boundaries, learning to say No, etc), should there be need for it.
So you, the adult SereneWolf, become the good and healthy protector for your inner child. Like a good father. Thatâs how you can replace this unhealthy, toxic protector, who is the Outer Critic/shield around your heart.
I hope itâs not too messy the way Iâve explained it?
You explained it well. You already noticed the main pain points. And yeah itâs been days I havenât been a good parent to my inner child but feels like work when you already feel emotionally drained you know
Good! If he isnât trying to put you down, isnât yelling at you etc, thatâs great.
Naah he doesnât do that to me. Itâs been a while, he used to do that a lot in past
SereneWolf
ParticipantDear Tee,
Iâve visited my hometown and it was good.
Still no good news unfortunately⌠I am going to see another doctor and look for other treatment options, because so far I had no relief.
Ah I see, Have you already visited another doctor? What did S/he? said? Take care of yourself.
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Yeah, and it might have even led you to believe that she doesnât appreciate you enough, because nothing you said or did managed to convince her to open up to you and change her attitude.
Yes Exactly!
We might even feel bad about ourselves for not being successful in âsavingâ our partner (I donât know if this was the case with you?) Whereas in reality, their rejection doesnât mean that weâre not good enough or not important enough, but it is the consequence of their own internal issues. And thatâs something we canât do much about if they arenât willing to help themselves.
Yes I think it was the same with me. Because I did felt like Iâm the responsible for âsavingâ her since I was in the relationship with her so I used to think as her best supporter and a lover itâs my responsibility. Otherwise what am I even doing for this relationship?
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Oh so she started seeing a therapist after you broke up, then she stopped, but now she started again, after you told her youâre seeing one too?
Yup
Hm⌠hard to say. There was a study in the US, I think, where they said that around 50% of people are securely attached (which would lead to being an emotionally healthy, non-traumatized individual). In other parts of the world, with a more patriarchal society, I am assuming this would be less. I mean, this is just my assumption and I am no expert, so please take this with a grain of salt. But it could be that at least half of the people have some kind of childhood trauma.
Wow so I think 50% means still thereâs good chance. Although Iâm surprised since US consumes more anti-depressants than any other nation. As per statistics more teens and women.
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Well, you spent 3 years being in a relationship that was very frustrating to you most of the times, but still you say it was a comfort zone. So perhaps being with someone with low self-esteem is still more comfortable than being with someone with healthy self-esteem, whom youâre afraid might judge you?
Hmm I donât know if I feel judged, Just not sure since Iâm still not spending enough time with her but yeah I do feel lot different (but not in a bad way)
And yeah she seems pretty upset because I didn’t try to contact her while I was in my hometown, and today she told me that she actually texted me “I miss you” but then deleted because she thought that I’m not missing her so she shouldn’t admit that either. But we’re meeting this weekend so let’s see what happens. and tbh I already feel scared just because she said “I miss you”
Well, I think you had higher self-esteem (at least in some aspects) than the girls you were with so far. So you were the âsaviorâ in the relationship, right? You were trying to fix them and help them. You had less problems than them, so to speak.
Yes thatâs more accurate from my part.
And itâs a pretty common dynamic. Weâre often attracted to people whom we think we can âsaveâ, people who are emotionally unavailable or troubled, but we believe we can finally turn them around. That all stems from our childhood and the dynamics with our parentsâŚ
Oh I see I didnât know that. So itâs also related to PTSD weâve talked about?
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I guess itâs your protector part that says âIf she doesnât want me, I donât want her either.â But your emotional part (your inner child) attaches quickly to her and wants her all for himself. So the possessive reaction seems like an inner child reflex in you. But the ego part says âno, I am cool if she doesnât want me, I am totally fine aloneâ.
Oh yeah it could be like that! Like I said before about duality, What to do about that?
When we feel worthy and valuable as a person, we donât get jealous about the qualities that other people possess. Because no one possess all the gifts and talents in the world â someone is talented in one thing, another person in something else. We are all special and unique in our own way.
So if you feel that she is e.g. more energetic than you, you can appreciate that quality of hers, rather than seeing it a threat, or as something youâre missing. Because youâre happy with your own gifts and talents, you donât feel deprived. Does that make sense?
Yes It does makes sense. And since Iâm practicing more empathy I do see more good qualities that people have around me..
And another thing: I think you too are pretty energetic and fierce, considering that you started living alone at the age of 16 and all other things youâve achieved in your life. So I think youâre not seeing yourself clearly and are selling yourself short. Again, thatâs the inner critic that gets activated and convinces you that youâre not good enough. So when you start hearing that voice telling you âlook at you, youâre so weak, why arenât you energetic and fierce as herâ, you can tell the inner critic to shut up and back off.
Thanks for the reminder! I think even though Iâm getting enough reminders inner critic is still isnât fully silent.
So I think you can do two things against the inferiority complex. One is: appreciate other peopleâs talents and good qualities because theyâre not a threat to you, because you have your own talents and gifts. And secondly, silence the inner critic who wants to make you believe youâre lacking in so many ways, when youâre not.
Thanks Iâll do that. First one isnât seems hard but yeah second one does seem hard
No, you donât need to try to change him, or encourage him to seek therapy. People like him (similar to my mother) are set in their ways. They donât believe they have a problem either â itâs more like everybody around them has a problem, but not them. Someone who believes thereâs nothing wrong with them and thereâs nothing they should change about themselves wonât be open to therapy either. Trying to get them to go would be futile.
Yes exactly! Youâre right if they donât even admit that they have the problem so thereâs not even a question to work on that.
What you can do though is stop him from talking disrespectfully to you (if he still does). Maybe you can sometimes disagree with some of his judgmental comments and remarks that he probably passes around frequently. But donât get into an argument with him. Just express your opinion respectfully, not expecting that he would agree or change his view.
He doesnât talk disrespectfully to me anymore. He talks more calmly to me, Explain things to me.
But if you see that thatâs futile too, that he starts arguing and you get drawn into an argument, you can spend less time in his company. Thatâs how you can protect yourself from his critical and judgmental attitudes, even if they arenât directed at you.
Since Iâm not living with my family I already spend much less time with my father.. and even when Iâm home I mostly spend time with my siblings and mother.
SereneWolf
ParticipantDear Tee,
You haven’t updated me about your health in a while. So, tell me the good news?
Yes, I see⌠she had very low self-esteem, and felt ashamed of herself even in front of you.
Yes, I guess it was one of the reasons I felt more hurt even after reassurance, time and trust it wasn’t enough for her.
Although to be honest, I donât know how one can be critical and superior, but not judgmental? Because acting with superiority kind of implies that one looks down at the other person as not good enoughâŚ
Hmm I guess because I still admire and value their good qualities over the ones that I donât like?
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So to me it definitely seems like an unhealthy parent-child dynamic, even if you were trying to be as patient as possible, and would only get upset occasionally.
In fact, I guess you were upset more frequently than you let on (weâve talked about it already), so she could probably feel your disappointment and frustration, even if you tried not to show it. And even if you managed to hide it, it was still frustrating for you, right?
Yes exactly!
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Yes, it does. But itâs in vain, unless they work on it therapyâŚ
Because I talked to her after a while and I said Iâm seeing a therapist, She was bit more enthusiastic about seeing the therapist again
Oh I see⌠so she felt neglected because her little sister âstoleâ her parentsâ attention. And she probably felt not good enough and not lovable enough because of that. That can very easily be the cause of her low self-esteem.
Yes thatâs what Iâm thinking
Yeah, itâs always a recipe for failure to be in a relationship with someone who cannot love themselves. If youâre attracted to such girls, who seem needy and in need of your help â thatâs something to be aware of and to work on. Okay, the doctor is certainly not that type, But in general, if you feel better being with girls with low self-esteem, thatâs a problem.
Okay so just a general question. Suppose we go out and take 10 random people and out of those 10 people what do you think how many would be loving themselves as they should?
And I know Iâm feeling different but I also know that Iâm not afraid of change.
But Iâm also thinking itâs could be like similar to comfort zone thing? Because Iâve mostly been with girls who had low-esteem so now I feel just more comfortable with them
Or itâs like a attraction thing low self-esteem attracts low-esteem? đ
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Maybe you feel those other guys will steal her from you?
Hmm no, I donât think that way. I believe that weâre dating now because she chose me and I chose her, Thatâs a freedom. I donât care if some guy is trying to steal her from me. If heâs able to steal her from me and actually do then congrats to him but I donât like to compete when it comes to relationships. Iâll be just trying be myself. If she wants to be in, be in, or out, just happily out. For me itâs like if someone one else capable of steal her from me, itâs making my commitment decision easier for like now Iâm sure youâre not the one.
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Ah itâs like you start judging yourself for not being as energetic and fierce. So instead of appreciating her energy (which you like, as it seems), you start judging yourself for not possessing those same qualities. Your inner critic gets activated⌠So be aware of that: how you start comparing yourself with her and seeing her as superior, and you as inferiorâŚ. and this is another recipe to ruin the relationship. So be aware of your inner criticâŚ
Haha yeah thatâs right. I think nowadays Iâm doing comparison and get jealous even though I donât like it
And what should I do about this superior and inferior thing other than try to see all as equal?
Iâm at my hometown at my parents place and I did noticed that even though his behavior is better with me. With others heâs till same old narcissistic person who think whatever he thinks is right and others are wrong. I donât know if I should just accept that he canât change or if I should fight for it even more. Because the thing is that he doesnât believe in therapy even a bit. And I feel sorry for my mother because she have to live with him.
SereneWolf
ParticipantDear Tee,
Does it mean you did video call after all during those 3 years? Or she shared video notes with you, but never talked to you in real time on video?
No I didnât. She did shared lot of video notes with me. But didnât talked on real time on video. She be like she prefers to take videos 2-3 times after she thinks those are âgood enoughâ to share. You seeing the issue here right?
I see⌠she was shy and insecure, and thought people would judge her. But you tried to assure her how beautiful she is, both inside and outside, and that she has nothing to be ashamed for. Thatâs really sweet and supportive of you. And itâs absolutely not critical or overbearing.
But she did say she felt a sense of superiority from you and criticism, and it could be that in some areas you were indeed more critical, such as her health and diet? Also, perhaps you felt frustrated with her for not accomplishing some of the goals that she set for herself?
So you mean to say even though I wasnât being critical but itâs how she perceived me because of her issues? Thatâs wasnât even in my control so..
But Yes because I was worried about her mental health more. Thatâs why I wanted her to sleep properly and have fresh and healthy food. And at times I did felt frustrated and she said sorry to me lot of timesÂ
No, I donât think it was. The truth is that itâs hard to be with someone who has low self-esteem. No matter how much we love them, they canât love themselves and it ruins the relationship.
Yeah I totally agree! Lot of the energy goes into reassurance
I see.. maybe some dynamic with her siblings was going on, which made her feel less than and not good enoughâŚ
So the thing is her parents didnât waited much longer. Like first her and then directly next year her little sister. And I guess after that they found out itâs good to wait to give proper time. So after like 10 years another kid, her brother đ
And her little sister got attention more than she wanted to. So sheâs totally different from her. No matter what her parents says she doesnât listen and super stubborn with her parents because she knows that her needs going to be fulfilled.Â
I donât know either, it was just a hypothesis. But now I see that you werenât that critical with her as I thought⌠so maybe you werenât overbearing after all, but just frustrated with her consistent lack of self-esteem?
I was frustrated for sure! I think itâs one of the reasons I gave up on that relationship. Because If Iâm putting time and effort, I want to see progress. work or relationship.
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Alright⌠so the doctor seems to be the polar opposite of your first LDR â self-assured, daring and not afraid to show her attributes and stand out in the crowd  She also took the initiative with asking you out, so⌠yeah, she is different.
Sheâs different. Like different than any girl Iâve been with.
Well, in fact, we can have our discernment and still not be judgmental. If youâve noticed something fishy (e.g. if she flirted with other men), it can be a reason for caution. But if sheâs just vivacious and feels good in her own skin, thatâs not the reason to judge her.
I mean she wasnât flirting with them. But itâs kind of my problem even though It was only a first date I did felt possessive so.. It happened to me a lot of times even though I donât like to be committed I do get possessive quickly
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Good! So she seemed honest and authentic with you?
Yes. She actually complimented me that she didnât met good listener like me in years. I guess I did improve my empathy skills đ
You say you felt intimidated, and that itâs because she is more energetic and fierce than you. Does it make you feel inferior and you fear that she would judge you?
Hmm yes, kind of? Thereâs duality. Like one side thinking is like youâre good enough as you are, you donât need to âcopyâ others. And other side is like Wow how good it would feel to be this much energetic & fierce.
SereneWolf
ParticipantDear Tee,
it seems your first LDR girlfriend was severely anxious, since you said social anxiety was the reason she didnât want to video call with you during your 3-year long relationship. Which means she was embarrassed of herself even in front of you.
Yes, She was really camera shy even to take and share pics. But I had to encourage and reassure her a lot how cute and gorgeous she is (Which she is really!)
After that she were comfortable sharing pics, videos and voice notes.The above tells me that the dynamic in your relationship was that she needed to be âfixedâ, and you were the one who was trying to help her and fix her. She felt ashamed of herself and not good enough, and you were tying to help her âwork on itâ. But probably the dynamic soon turned into you feeling as the superior one, âpatiently waitingâ for her to change, while she feeling not good enough and failing you most of the time. And being afraid of losing you.
The thing is that we canât change other people. And you tried to change her, actually she too wanted to change, because she didnât like her social anxiety and her excessive shame. But instead of going to therapy and working on it, she fell into this dynamic with you where a part of the time she was trying to please you and make you appreciate her. And half of the time she was probably resenting you for not accepting her as she is, for trying to change her and improve her. She needed unconditional acceptance (which she could have received in therapy), but instead she expected it from you, which was a mistake.
You probably stayed for so long in this relationship because you tend to slip into the controlling/overbearing father figure easily. So you couldnât just leave because she was probably a challenge for you, and a part of you felt good being the superior one. Another part hated it, because she was often resisting your guidance, as it seems. She would sabotage your dates, cancel things at the last moment⌠almost like a teenage girl rebelling against her father.
So it seems to me like an unhealthy father-daughter dynamic. What do you think?
Well she does mentioned that she doesnât feel good enough and she always think about what other people would think of her what if they judge her? Even with her therapist she wasnât opening up properly. She thought that sheâd judge her. And I guess to this day sheâs still not opening up to her fully as she did with me. I tried to make her understood that itâs okay to opening up. Therapists donât judge and everything you say is 100% private, but sheâs not fully convinced. So sheâs focusing more journaling and yoga and meditation.
I mean even though I was trying to âfixâ her. I was trying not let her feel like sheâs less than anything. Time to time I wrote her letters about her inner and outer beauty to reassure and gain her self-esteem. But yeah maybe it could be true and there was some unhealthy dynamic going on.
I think I understand your dynamic better now. As I said, I think there was this duality in her: on one hand she wanted to please you and do what you say, but on the other hand she was rebelling against you because you reminded her of her strict parents (probably). And so she was sabotaging your dates, she had a certain resistance against you.
Right but from what she told me her parents werenât that strict, But she is the eldest sibling in the family so she didnât got the attention that she needed. and Iâm the middle sibling in my family so I think I can still understand.
So to answer your question: no, itâs not too much to ask for your partnerâs attention. But this particular girl couldnât give it to you because, if my assumption is right, she was rebelling against you as much as she loved you. It was the love-hate relationship on her part, I think.
Okay so it wasnât entirely my fault.
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Yeah, it shouldnât be one-sided. The girl should show interest and initiative too. Unless youâre overbearing and donât let them breathe. But if youâre not too intense, she should show initiative. If she doesnât (and youâre not overbearing), it means somethingâs wrong, there is some resistance in her. Like there was in your first LDR.
Hmm I see, Understood. Although Iâm questioning myself if I had overbearing tendencies
Also I went on a date with a doctor. And I donât know what to say. She is actually more energetic and fiercer than me. And it was definitely making me feel intimidating. And her outfit was like idk too much??? Other guys were staring at her and it made me angry and uncomfortable same time. But I tried to not focus on that and controlled myself and not judge. Other than that I did had fun. She was opening up to me like we are old friends. Which I liked.
SereneWolf
ParticipantDear Tee,
I see.. so it felt like she wasnât too keen to meet you and hang out with you (online). And it wasnât because she was super busy with her exams or anything like that? Btw was this your first LDR or the second one, which only lasted for a short time?
First LDR. And I know itâs silly but I actually was just curious about how LDR relationships are and just wanted to experience I didnât know we would be attached to each other that much and soon like a committed relationship.
And no it wasnât about the exams because it was her first LDR and first ever relationship. So she did told me that sheâs shy and insecure, I said itâs not my first relationship but Iâm somewhat shy and insecure too so.. So she said weâll work for it. Now thatâs the thing I cling to because she said weâll work for it. But I didnât understand sometimes itâs not easy for person just change their traits even though they want it to.
In my opinion, LDR only works if you also meet in person from time to time. You said that in your 1st LDR, youâve never even video called, right? And it lasted for 3 years⌠thatâs pretty mind boggling! But maybe it was during covid, so thatâs why?
Yeah I know but Iâm not fond of LDR anymore. Specially after I went on an in-person dates. We started it like one year before covid after she proposed. But the thing was that I saw the opportunity, I thought itâs like a blank page and together we could cultivate a real good relationship, Because I got the feeling like sheâs just good and we could work for this LDR thing. It was really really hard for us. And because she said sheâs shy and everything⌠Iâm like okay Iâll give her time and have patience. But my patience turned into a comfort zone for her and she didnât work for her social anxiety. so never even a video call.
And we did plan to meet and even decided to live together but because of covid and other circumstances we couldnât, which made things even harder.
Yeah, that would be the first step⌠at least mentally, know that it is possible. Itâs not a lost case from the start. There is hope!
Yes I know and to be honest Iâm trying to be hopeful but itâs not that easy.. and because of that I just try to focus to be better on other areas
Because of the attachment â it is in our nature to form deep bonds with people closest to us. Our first attachment âfiguresâ are our parents, and our second major attachment figure is our romantic partner. So what weâve learned about love and bonding in the relationship with our parents, we carry it over to our romantic relationships. Itâs the same âprogrammingâ, so to speak.
Oh okay I seeâŚ
No, being aware of it is just one part of it. Another part is emotional healing. Thatâs when the inner child comes into the picture, because the inner child carries those old hurtsâŚ
Ah yeah, Right! need to take care of the inner child.
Yeah, seems youâre conflicted. Like, âI need you so muchâ, and then in the next moment âI donât need you at all!â. Itâs like love and hate relationship. In fact, our relationship with our parents when weâre children is often like that: we need them, but we also hate them because they donât give us what we need.
So perhaps this is what happens with you in those moments: when the girl doesnât give you what you need (e.g. her absolute dedication), you get angry and protest. Itâs like the child who protests when the mother doesnât pay attention to him 100% of the time.
I am not saying you should tolerate if the girl is neglecting you and doesnât want to spend time with you. I am more talking about the extremes where you maybe expect her to leave everything and spend time with you, even though she is studying for her exam (just as an example â donât know if itâs applicable?). Maybe in those extremes you donât have much understanding for her needs, but you demand her time, or else you get very angry? I am not claiming this is true for you, just speculating⌠so let me know if it applies?
Well not really. You see even it was new for me, I did told her that whenever she needs space or time she can feel free to tell me. I literally told her that âDonât talk to me for a week or even a month if you donât want to or able to, I wonât mindâ but just let me knowâŚAnd yeah at times I was seeking undivided attention but itâs only because I was giving her my undivided attention. Is that wrong?
Yes, itâs very possible that you need to better regulate your emotions. If what I suggested above is true, then the main driver for your strong emotions would be the inner childâs feeling of abandonment and anger when heâs not getting 100% attention all the time.
 Hmm I’m thinking is it really about seeking attention? or something else? Because I do know well attention doesn’t indirectly mean love or affection or validation from the partner
Well, I just yesterday watched a video where they said that around 50% of all relationships among young people are online. Which is a lot! I had no idea it was so much. And I can imagine it gets competitive if one has to compete against dozens of guys online. Thatâs why I think itâs better to have an in-person relationship, or if you have an LDR, preferably you originally meet the person face-to-face (say on a trip or a business conference). And then you continue LDR, but with regular visits. In any case, I think that being exclusively LDR isnât optimal because you canât have that level of bonding being just online.
Exactly! Thatâs why Iâm like enough and also ended my second LDR. I did felt bad because that was really my fault like even after got out from one long LDR I tried to have another one? what was I thinking? But luckily I didn’t spend much time on it so not much extra emotions.
Good that youâre still focusing on the positives! If you start finding (unjustified) faults in her, notice it and stop yourself, because maybe itâs your outer critic/saboteur in actionâŚ
Yes I will try to stop my outer critic. But I think lot of times my pride/ego comes in between. Like why I should always text first? let her decide where to go, let her plan, I won’t be doing the work alone. and like that in most of my relationships in-person and LDR I felt one sided pretty frequently.
You aware about 5 love languages, right? Mine is Act of service and Quality time equally so maybe that says something đÂ
So sheâd like to reconcile, but you said no, and she accepts it?
Yes, I talked to her few months after the breakup.
She was like I wanted to work on my anxiety and fear, and when I was with you it got much better I never even thought that I would actually start an online relationship, be this much vulnerable and open myself to someone, but I was always trying to please you and felt insecure that If Iâd do something wrong our bond wouldnât be strong and itâll break and because of LDR it wasnât getting strong either.Another thing, When she told me about her anxiety and she wanted to go to therapy I said itâs a good idea. But to be honest all this time I felt like I was kind of worked as her therapist. But she only started to see therapist after the breakup. And later she found out the along with social anxiety she also has ROCD.
SereneWolf
ParticipantDear Tee,
In other words, if she was passive-aggressive about it (she would promise something but then always flake on it), thatâs not good. But if she would change her mind occasionally, specially it wasnât such an important thing (like how youâll spend your date), I donât see it as a big problem.
She did it often. And yeah if her intention matters, Mine does too. And at some point I knew Iâm being overly strict about this and creating fights but I also knew like Iâm not doing anything wrong just protecting something that I value more. Straight forward behavior.
Sure, keeping oneâs word is important. But you also have to take into account whether itâs an important thing, like being there for you in time of need, or itâs a minor thing, like choosing which movie to watch. Thatâs a big difference.
Okay so in LDR, She was studying her masters and me working full time. So there was very much less time we were spending together and I felt like she wasnât even respecting even that much little time. Just taking it for granted. Then why should I always be the first one to push things further?
having hope is key⌠so restoring hope and a positive attitude about relationships is probably what youâll need as a part of your healing process.
Youâre right. Iâm having hope in lot of areas in my life except love part. I guess it times to restore hope for a loving & healthy relationships
Yes, if you got disappointed in your closest relationships, with people who were supposed to love you and support you, itâs hard. The fear and resistance remains in you, and you treat other close relationships (such as romantic relationships) the same.
Why am I connecting my romantic relationships to closest relationships even though Iâm aware itâs not the same. It was in the past but this is the present. Wounds are there I know, But being aware about it isnât that enough?
Yeah, this need to know everything about them at once is probably because you want to âbe sureâ what youâre getting into. And thatâs because you want to minimize the potential harm. So I think you actually do it for your own protection â because youâre afraid of getting hurt.
Thatâs why you also start over-analyzing them and finding their potential âweaknessesâ â all because youâre afraid of getting hurt. The latter (the over-analyzing and finding weaknesses in the other person) is a part of the outer critic â which over time sabotages the relationship.Hmm I guess thatâs relatable
If you do vibe, then you probably want to make sure that they are the right match, so you amp up the efforts, youâre like all in. And perhaps youâre testing them if they show the same amount of intensity as you. And if they donât (because they have other things going on in their life and canât dedicate 100% of their time to you), then youâre like âno, thatâs not the real thing. Sheâs not committed like I amâ. Is that what happens?’
Yes I think thatâs what happens! I do know that relationships donât work that way. But still I do crave the same intensity if Iâm putting it out there and making myself vulnerable.
and the thing is like I feel duality a lot. For a moment Iâm like yeah I need her I want to spend time with her, Why I canât get the same energy back? And seek attention maybe and another moment when I get even a little doubt Iâm like I donât need anyone or her. Why do I even need her? So itâs like either extremely high or extremely low.. No balance in between with myself.
So maybe I just donât know how to balance my emotions in healthier wayAnd after my breakup
And after talking some of my female friends I found out that It was wrong of me to being the pushy one.
And they said like for a woman, specially in their 20s, There are lot choices available. Itâs not like only youâre being good to her. So believe it or not it gets competitive even if they donât want it to be and they canât decide rationally or directly the way you want them to be, and it makes them quite undecisive about things.
What do you think about that?Good! So you like her and youâre actually keen to communicate with her. Are you starting to notice her âweaknessesâ already?
Well I donât think Iâm finding her weaknesses already. But I think subconsciously my mind is mostly thinks how this shouldnât work out even though things are going well. Fear of the past you know⌠So far I like her cheerful behaviour.
Actually, itâs okay if you donât remain friends with your exes. You donât need to force yourself to do it. So if you feel uncomfortable talking to her as friends, you can tell her that. But if youâre cool about it and it doesnât make you feel uncomfortable, then fine.
Well yeah for me I know itâs okay. She does talks about past sometimes and regret but she knows well it wonât melt me. So she kinda accepted that.
Yes, if you define âchallengeâ as something insurmountable, and it paralyzes you, then yeah, itâs better not to see it as a challenge. But if you define challenge as an opportunity to learn and grow, and something that basically wonât harm you â then you donât need to fear the word âchallengeâ. But anyway, as he said: âtraining mind to be less fearful about whatâs coming nextâ â thatâs a good piece of advice.
Yes exactly and as someone who have like inferiority complex and anxiety itâs really easy for me to get intimated with new things or challenges. (Except new places and traveling đ)
So thatâs why Iâm working on that -
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