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SereneWolfParticipant
Dear Tee,
ahh, I think I am not a typical case and not responding well to treatmentâŚ
Oh I hope you feel better soonâŚ
Â
What kind of expectations do they have? To provide for them financially, or in general, about how you should live your life and what career path you should take? Do you feel that your mother treats you kindly, talks nicely to you, but underneath you feel she expects you to follow a certain path or be a certain way?
Providing financially is okay for me and Iâm doing that. But itâs also general like my father now donât tell me things to do in certain way but still kinda pinpoint what others are doing and itâs frustrate me a lot like why do you have to care what theyâre doing? Canât you be satisfied once with what we have? Same with my grandfather whenever I call him.
For my mother sheâs just still overly protective (I know thereâs some fault of mine as well for this) She literally tells me to lock the door before sleep. Like mom I know Iâm not a child anymore.
Â
Yeah, itâs a way to separate ourselves from our fears and our resentments â because by writing them down, itâs like we observe them, we donât identify with them. So weâre less consumed by them. Which means â more regulated, more able to think clearly. And also, once we write it down, we gain clarity about what bothers us, and it helps us deal with the problem.
Right and you know I got another idea for this. Taking voice notes like as I said before when I was feeling frustrated after talking on call with my father, I take voice notes to let out that frustration, but my anger is I think nearly at tipping point so maybe I will confront things to him.
Introspection, courage, curiosity, fast learning, openness to new ideas⌠to mention just a few  But in fact, you are worthy just by being born. For some people, their talents are hidden because they have been abused, and so they may have become addicts etc. However, they are still worthy, they only need to connect to their core, their true selfâŚ
Itâs like diamonds covered in dirt â they arenât always visible, but they are there. Your talents are visible, but I am just saying, even if they werenât, you would still be worthyâŚ
Thanks! And yeah, I agree also since you mention addiction, I think itâs also something which is wasting lot of my time. Iâve read more about CPTSD, and it’s also mentioned that anorexia and Technology addiction could be the part of it and itâs relatable for me. For me even though when not working itâs not easy for me just not waste time on screen for no reason at all.
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I am sorry youâre not getting the desired results. Is there someone you can consult about it?
No I canât. because Iâm supposed to be âExpertâ in this. I talked to the people working on the same kind of projects and they are all telling me the same things that I’m already doing. Which is making me even more anxious… But I’m trying to ground myself by not getting attached to the results.
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
But anyway, we canât suppress negative emotions selectively without suppressing positive emotions as well. So if you suppress anger, you cannot express love freely either. Thatâs how we operate.
Hmm Thatâs interesting, I didnât know about this
Right now, your âcalm and composedâ stance in social situations is more due to the suppression of anger and self-control, right? Likewise, your slightly distant and detached stance with your girlfriend is a part of the same pattern. Itâs not really your true self, but a defense mechanism. But itâs the same pattern: suppressing emotions, keeping a distance, which you exhibit both in social situations and in intimate relationships.
So I was wrong when I said those are two different things. They are not â itâs the same defense mechanism working in you. But as I said, donât worry about it, youâre working on it.
So this defense mechanism is like still part of me or just something Iâm using as a block for intimate relationships?
Amazing, mature response! You re-stated your current limitations and boundaries, and you stood by them. But you were also kind and caring towards her, telling her you donât want to hurt her by those limitations/boundaries. And so you are letting her decide how to proceed. Well done, SereneWolf!
Good! I like that you can talk to each other so honestly. Thatâs a good sign. I hope itâs not the end of your relationship, but even if it is, you handled this very well. Very maturely. Kudos to you!
Thank a lot for your encouragement. I did learn things from you so thanks to you as well.
So yeah, I do like her vulnerability and honesty. But I think her older emotions are still strong. And to be honest I totally understand her dilemma as well but I donât want to be with someone who isnât sure about me. So, when sheâll come back Iâll tell her No. Iâm not worried about ending this relationship. Itâll take few days but Iâll be alright.
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
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well, she wanted to tell you she loves you, and probably expected to hear the same from you⌠Because youâve been dating for a while, visiting each other, watching the stars together⌠I donât think itâs extreme, but for you, itâs too much. Because for you, telling someone you love them comes with a lot of load, with fear of vulnerability, and perhaps fear of their expectations⌠Perhaps for you itâs like something that would start an avalanche of scary things, and you donât want it, right?
Well in-person we met like total 5 times only. And yeah so for me telling someone I love them comes with lot of responsibilities (Which Iâm always trying to run away from) Because then there are just lot of rules as a lover you know. And after admitting I prefer to follow those rules no matter what.
HmâŚ. yeah, or itâs fear of getting hurt? I think in people with avoidant attachment, itâs rather the latterâŚ
Hmm I guess so, But right now I donât feel hurt (much)
Well, that eagerness might have lasted for a month or two, and then youâd likely get cold feet⌠I mean, now you were more patient and self-aware than with your previous date, which lasted for only a short while. And you could better control your impulse to run away, which is great! So I think you are actually doing better now than a few months ago, but itâs still probably not enough for her, since youâre not very âeagerâ.
Yeah finding the ârightâ woman ainât that easy. But yeah thanks I do feel like I did good progress regarding this matter
Actually she kind of did â remember when she got angry when you didnât contact her while you were at your parentsâ place for a week? Also now, she was surprised that you werenât more upset when she told you about her ex. And even the fact that she chose to meet her ex and is considering getting back with him is to me a proof that she isnât getting what she wants in the relationship with you.
I am not judging you or anything, I am just saying that these are all signs that she probably didnât like your coolness towards her, although she might have appreciated it otherwise, in other situations.
Hmm I see so I guess in some situations I might have didnât showed my coolness
Not necessarily. She might appreciate someone calm and composed, i.e. stable and not overly emotional in everyday situations, someone who will not explode easily at people or make rash decisions. So maybe someone a little different than her. Someone to ground her. However, it doesnât mean that she likes when you are being cool and not eager towards her. Because those are two different things â how you behave with others and how you behave with her.
Yeah so about this, Iâm still learning how to express myself and not always hide if Iâm showing that Iâm not calm with that thing yet even though I am, That would be lying, Donât you think so? And Yeah I accept itâs just my non-attachment towards her talking
So yeah I talked to her If my coolness is bothering or thereâs something else? She can share anything without hesitating.
She told me that âWhen I started talking to you I thought youâd be obsessed with me, Because thatâs how it went for me in the past, and Because I already love you, Things would go much faster between us, and yet I enjoyed every moment we shared together I was waiting that youâd break your ârulesâ just for me (Because I already talked to her about my fear in relationship) and take steps further, So I tried to do it but you still stopped me and I agree with you, You wanted things to go slow but it did hurt me because no one ever said me No like that. But the thing is that I couldnât make you feel very attached me and it frustrates me a lot. â
I was speechless after hearing this! I couldnât even say anything for a minute. I was thinking like what should I even say to this.
But I said âIâm sorry you feel that way but Iâm still working on myself, healing myself if I take things faster I worry that I might hurt your feelings and my first priority is that not giving you discomfort or hurt you just because of me.â
She went on trip with her sister so when sheâll be back sheâll think about this matter.
SereneWolfParticipantHola Tee,
I am doing similarly, still no big breakthrough in healingâŚ
Ohh you still havenât found a good doctor?
Yeah I know what you mean â when you feel that their kindness is not sincere, but it comes with an expectation of you doing them a favor in the future, of giving them something in return. Yes, Iâve met such people. Donât like them eitherâŚ
Sometimes I wonder if itâs the same with my parents. I mean it could be just innocent love to their kids. But just because they provided me in the childhood now theyâre expecting things from me?
Right, you seem âcalm and composedâ, but thatâs because youâre good at controlling yourself and not letting it show. But inside, you feel very angry. As I said, I think a part of that anger isnât related to the actual person standing in front of you, but itâs the anger at your father⌠and so you overreact (internally) to the person, although it doesnât show on the outside. Or at least itâs not so obviousâŚ
Yeah thatâs right
There is this youtube channel that I like, called the Crappy Childhood Fairy, which is focused on healing from C-PTSD. And she teaches a method of daily journaling, which she calls âThe Daily Practice.â The video describing it is titled âCalm Anxiety â Learn this simple technique 15 minutesâ. She explains how she writes down all her fears and resentments, meditates on it a little, and then she asks God (for those who believe) to remove them. Or for non-believers, they can say they are ready to release those fears and resentments.
I do it a little differently, but I do write things down, and usually have some insight about whatâs behind my fear or resentment, and it makes me feel better.
Iâve watched the video and it seems really on point so basically the idea is just putting down your negative thoughts on paper because PTSD mind is mostly dysregulated. Right?
Also she said anyone who gone thorough abuse would most probably have dysregulated mind and therefore symptoms of C-PTSD
I also took her free test for today and now Iâm more firm that I may have C-PTSD
Iâve just tried the method today and Iâm kind of feeling like less weight of fears already. I’m also trying to find insights, but I guess I’m just tired today.
Do you think you could do it, or you still have doubts?
Well currently Iâm just trying affirmations but the thing is that Iâm not used to tell myself nicer things, so I have to dig deeper and find my unique and skills and abilities.
I took time to write because I was busy and frustrated with work, I think I’m still very much of a result-driven person. Because I’m working on this project for so long trying different strategies but getting the same result and less efficient. It’s really making me feel down and questioning my abilities.
SereneWolfParticipantYeah, thatâs your avoidant attachment style. You keep a distance, you put on a guard, you donât allow yourself to get too close⌠In this situation now it might be useful, since the girl still has feelings for her ex. And it doesnât leave you too affected emotionally, in fact you feel a sense of reliefâŚ
Well I think I did put my guard down, and I did felt close to her. But not like what we could say heavily attached? But yeah I do feel sense of relief
I guess she is disappointed a little that you are so âcalm and composedâ about not having her in your life. That you donât love her and miss her more. Thatâs what the sigh means, I guessâŚ
I guess youâre right. She wants extreme kind of love but now that Iâm much aware Iâm taking things slowly
Yeah, you stopped her from expressing her love, I guess because you didnât want to express it to her either? You were afraid of deep emotions. And also, perhaps the belief that âI am hard to loveâ was still present in you a little, so how could she possibly say that she loves you â it must be the breeze and the starsâŚ?
It could be that she agreed to give her ex another chance because she is missing more âattachmentâ from you, more eagerness to be with her? I am not saying it is your fault that she is conflicted, but it could be that she feels sheâs not important enough to you, and this contributed to her conflict? Has she ever complained about your emotional âcoolnessâ/reservedness till now?
I mean like we discussed I was already anxious and afraid of taking things so fast.
I guess thatâs why I stopped her from expressing her love, and I donât know Iâm just believe in slow love more? Like aging wine. It gets better, In No rush.
If sheâd met me few month ago, sheâd get exactly what she wants. More attachments and eagerness haha
And No She never complained about my emotional âcoolnessâ/reservedness only praised it many times.
But like I told you before sheâs like a high school girl she just feels âa lotâ so itâs obvious that she wants someone like that?
So I talked to her this evening. She and her ex had a meeting and apparently, He wants her back and she said heâs not like before (Which I doubt it somewhat) sheâs still feeling conflicted but she said she donât want to cut ties with meâŚSo she didnât gave him any answer and told him to waitâŚ
So I told her take her time, Iâll support her decision.
SereneWolfParticipantDon’t know what happened with markdown
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Yeah, thatâs your avoidant attachment style. You keep a distance, you put on a guard, you donât allow yourself to get too close⌠In this situation now it might be useful, since the girl still has feelings for her ex. And it doesnât leave you too affected emotionally, in fact you feel a sense of reliefâŚ</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Well I think I did put my guard down, and I did felt close to her. But not like what we could say heavily attached? But yeah I do feel sense of relief </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Â </p>
<p style=”background: white; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I guess she is disappointed a little that you are so âcalm and composedâ about not having her in your life. That you donât love her and miss her more. Thatâs what the sigh means, I guessâŚ</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I guess youâre right. She wants extreme kind of love but now that Iâm much aware Iâm taking things slowly </p>
<p style=”background: white; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Yeah, you stopped her from expressing her love, I guess because you didnât want to express it to her either? You were afraid of deep emotions. And also, perhaps the belief that âI am hard to loveâ was still present in you a little, so how could she possibly say that she loves you â it must be the breeze and the starsâŚ?</p>
<p style=”background: white; box-sizing: border-box; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>It could be that she agreed to give her ex another chance because she is missing more âattachmentâ from you, more eagerness to be with her? I am not saying it is your fault that she is conflicted, but it could be that she feels sheâs not important enough to you, and this contributed to her conflict? Has she ever complained about your emotional âcoolnessâ/reservedness till now?</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Â </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I mean like we discussed I was already anxious and afraid of taking things so fast. </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I guess thatâs why I stopped her from expressing her love, and I donât know Iâm just believe in slow love more? Like aging wine. It gets better, In No rush.</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>If sheâd met me few month ago, sheâd get exactly what she wants. More attachments and eagerness haha </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>And No She never complained about my emotional âcoolnessâ/reservedness only praised it many times.</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>But like I told you before sheâs like a high school girl she just feels âa lotâ so itâs obvious that she wants someone like that? </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Â </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>So I talked to her this evening. She and her ex had a meeting and apparently, He wants her back and she said heâs not like before (Which I doubt it somewhat) sheâs still feeling conflicted but she said she donât want to cut ties with meâŚSo she didnât gave him any answer and told him to waitâŚ</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>So I told her take her time, Iâll support her decision.</p>SereneWolfParticipant<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Yeah, thatâs your avoidant attachment style. You keep a distance, you put on a guard, you donât allow yourself to get too close⌠In this situation now it might be useful, since the girl still has feelings for her ex. And it doesnât leave you too affected emotionally, in fact you feel a sense of reliefâŚ</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Well I think I did put my guard down, and I did felt a little close to her. But not like what we could say heavily attached? But yeah I do feel sense of relief.</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”> </p><p style=”background: white; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I guess she is disappointed a little that you are so âcalm and composedâ about not having her in your life. That you donât love her and miss her more. Thatâs what the sigh means, I guessâŚ</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I guess youâre right. She wants extreme kind of love but now that Iâm much aware Iâm taking things slowly </p>
<p style=”background: white; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Yeah, you stopped her from expressing her love, I guess because you didnât want to express it to her either? You were afraid of deep emotions. And also, perhaps the belief that âI am hard to loveâ was still present in you a little, so how could she possibly say that she loves you â it must be the breeze and the starsâŚ?</p>
<p style=”background: white; box-sizing: border-box; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>It could be that she agreed to give her ex another chance because she is missing more âattachmentâ from you, more eagerness to be with her? I am not saying it is your fault that she is conflicted, but it could be that she feels sheâs not important enough to you, and this contributed to her conflict? Has she ever complained about your emotional âcoolnessâ/reservedness till now?</p><p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Â </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I mean like we discussed I was already anxious and afraid of taking things so fast. </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>I guess thatâs why I stopped her from expressing her love, and I donât know Iâm just believe in slow love more? Like aging wine. It gets better, In No rush.</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>If sheâd met me few month ago, sheâd get exactly what she wants. More attachments and eagerness haha </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>And No She never complained about my emotional âcoolnessâ/reservedness only praised it many times.</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>But like I told you before sheâs like a high school girl she just feels âa lotâ so itâs obvious that she wants someone like that? </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>Â </p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>So I talked to her this evening. She and her ex had a meeting and apparently, He wants her back and she said heâs not like before (Which I doubt it somewhat) sheâs still feeling conflicted, but she said she donât want to cut ties with meâŚSo she didnât gave him any answer and told him to waitâŚ</p>
<p style=”background: white; margin: 0cm 0cm 7.5pt 0cm;”>So I told her take her time, Iâll support her decision.</p>SereneWolfParticipantHey Tee,
How are you doing?
Youâre welcome! I am glad youâve started to believe that you are easy to love, and that youâll be using that affirmation. I love that affirmation btw, I think itâs very powerful.
Oh good! Hereâs another one I kinda created from the conversation we had, I am enough, just as I am, and I am worthy of all the good things that life has to offer.
Â
Yeah, it could be that some of the positive attention and praise youâve received was genuine, but you didnât register it as such, because you believed you were hard to love⌠so you didnât believe them.
Love bombing is usually used by narcissistic people as a way to hook you in, to âcatchâ you. Once they succeed, they become very different, they start controlling you, putting you down, manipulating you etc. Have you had such an experience before â of someone first playing super loving and nice, and then turning against you?
No actually not turning against me but like fake youj know?… I donât like those kinds of people who just do something for me just because they want something from me. Thatâs not love. Thatâs simply like a business transaction. For example when I decide to help someone I donât think I should only help this person if someday he/she can help me. In the past I had experienced with those kind of people and Iâm not fond of that kind of greed even though it seems normal to everybody else.
Okay, this sounds like the way you reacted to your father: you actually wanted to tell him what he deserved, but you were afraid to do so⌠and so you remained silent but were boiling inside, right? Nowadays I guess when people remind you of your father, that same anger wants to come out, but you suppress it (rightfully so, because it would be inappropriate to express it to their face).
However, I think thatâs why it would be so important to process the anger you feel at your father, because once you do, youâll be much less reactive with other people, specially in professional settings, where itâs important to keep your cool.
Yes Iâm keeping my cool but like you said sometimes Iâm just boiling inside
Another consequence will be that you wonât be so afraid of speaking up when you disagree with someone, because youâll be able to do it calmly, in a civil manner. Or without sarcasm (because sometimes when youâre upset, you use sarcasm, which is a form of passive aggression).
Iâd really like that Yes!
Hm, I think itâs writing it down⌠I write it down when I am angry and upset. Itâs a form of processing, because while writing, I usually get some insights about why I am angry, or sad, and how I can help myself. So journaling helps me.
Ah right itâs been a while since I did journaling, I should start this good habit. But for this setting I should just write down what I feel and how can I make it better?
You can do it either on your own, or in therapy. If you want to do it on your own, you can write it down, journal about it. Recall an incident from your childhood or youth which was really upsetting, and write down everything you feel about it. Write down why you are angry and how your father hurt you. You can also punch a punching bag or a pillow â that helps to express anger and release it from the system.
Remember, youâre not a bad person, or a bad son, for feeling angry about the way you were treated. Itâs a justified anger and you have the right to feel it.
Okay that seems like a good solution.
Because we all have gifts and talents, we are born with them, itâs like jewels we are adorned with  We are all special and unique in our own way. Thatâs why weâre worthy simply be existingâŚ
This is something I need to learn to accept.
Yes, quite possible, because if we donât feel worthy, we typically want to achieve something big to prove our worth. Some people even do achieve great things, but they play it down, telling themselves itâs not a big deal, that they simply got lucky and donât really deserve the praise (thatâs the impostor syndrome).
You too mentioned you suffer from the impostor syndrome. And itâs possible, because you downplay your achievements and are pushing yourself to achieve more and faster. And thatâs probably because deep inside, you donât feel worthy and you seek validation.
So actually when you say your subconscious wants it â I think itâs actually your inner child who is seeking praise and validation from your parentsâŚ
Oh right you explained it very well. So I just need to make myself feel worthy again?
Â
You are very welcome! Iâll repeat it: you are doing a lot, and have achieved a lot. Itâs your feeling unworthy that is telling you differently!
Right!
SereneWolfParticipantHm.. thatâs not a good sign, since it means she still has feelings for him. And that she is considering going back to him, otherwise she wouldnât want to meet him. BTW, was he the one who left her? Because usually thatâs when we still have feelings for the exâŚ
I know but I’m not disappointed because I wasn’t much attached, I didn’t ask if her ex left her, or she left him
I guess you meant that you donât want to beg her either, right?
Lol NOPE!
I donât know how you feel about it?
Well I know it’s not really normal, but I feel good like I’m saved from emotional frustration and etc. đ
Like how Americans say “Dodged a bullet?” Idk if it’s relevant here đ
 how did she react to your relatively detached reaction?
She wasn’t surprised she already sees me as someone who’s “Calm and composed” She told me this in our first date and I said It’s what you see but I do have anxiety like some other people…
Even this time she told me – you seem not agitated about this at all. I just asked her reversibly do you really want me to?
And yet still she kissed me good before she left with little sigh…
I guess I didn’t told you, Remember when she came to my place and cooked for me? Well that night after dinner we went on my terrace for stargazing, and we were talking and she was about to tell me I love you, I just shushed her and told her that, let’s take it slowly and kinda also sarcastically said it’s the “mild breeze” talking
She laughed and also said yeah I’m being eager. but that’s a “twinkling” talking.
SereneWolfParticipantAlso, so I had another date with doctor, and I spent really good time with her. But at that night her ex called him and talked to her, Next day again we had lunch together and told me about it. She says she’s really confused because he asked him to be back together. They were together for more than 4 years, so her emotions are really strong. and she said she really feels secure with me and really like spending time with me but her ex wants to meet her so she doesn’t know what she should do and asking me… And I said I’m not in the position to give you any advice on this, Do what feels right for you. I won’t force you to stick with me.
So let’s see what happens…
SereneWolfParticipantOla Tee,
Thanks, thatâs one of my greatest wishes!
I hope your wishes come true đ¤
Â
I see â so youâre on the lookout because youâre afraid you might say something that these people wonât like, and theyâll start judging you and thinking poorly of you. This is most likely the consequence of fearing your father and never knowing when heâll lash out at you (my fatherâs anger was always on the edge so whenever he was around even he was calm I was anxious that at any time heâd flip out). Now being around authority figures gives you the same anxiety⌠because youâre projecting your father into them.
If thatâs so, the first thing you can do is to be aware of this dynamics. Perhaps you can also tell yourself that 1) other people are not like your father, and 2) you are easy to love (I mention this because youâve realized this recently about yourself, and I think itâs a good phrase to repeat to yourself, even in a professional setting). If âI am easy to loveâ is too much, you can repeat to yourself something like âIâve got many talents and abilities, I am good and capable enough.â Perhaps this would help you be a little less anxious at business/professional gatherings?
Thanks a lot for clear and stepwise guidance! itâs much clearer to me and yeah, I do like âIâm easy to loveâ affirmation more, Because I started to believe that somewhat
Can you give me an example of a manipulative behavior you donât like?
Hmm currently Passive aggressive and love bombing comes to my mind.
Thereâs another thing though.. I guess in past I may took some things as love bombing even though they were being genuine. Because itâs been hard for me to take compliments (Even from my gfs)
Â
Alright, so you feel that if you were really honest with people, youâd be rude and without much empathy for them (or for some of them)? I mean, you would tell them what they deserve? And so you rather donât say anything and donât show your emotions?
Yes Exactly!
Â
Good that she doesnât use her emotions to manipulate you! As for the notion that to be a mature adult means to bottle up oneâs emotions⌠well, thatâs not really true. It sounds like something your mother would have told you when you were angry at your father?
Because in truth, to be mature means to be able to regulate our emotions, not to suppress them. Remember, anger is a signal, not a solution (Henry Cloud). If you cut off the signalling system, thatâs not a sign of maturityâŚ
Yes I remember the Henry cloudâs video now! Iâll take a note of this. Regulations my emotions, thatâs we are already working on so
What single thing that been most helpful for regulating your emotions?Â
Okay, so it seems you feel a little threatened by her talents and abilities, you feel less-than in some aspects (perhaps in emotional expressiveness too?), and your inner critic would like to sabotage it. Just keep noticing it, and keep telling yourself âI am easy to loveâ, or something long those lines. If it works for you, of courseâŚ
Okay Iâll try this affirmations and update you
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Well, Iâd say it makes it easier, not harder, if you know how to spot emotionally unhealthy people. Because you wonât get into relationships that will drain you and that have no future. Or even if you enter such a relationship, youâll quickly see itâs not good for you and youâll leave. So I donât see any drawbacks of healing, just positivesâŚ
Hmm thatâs a positive perspective to look from
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I think itâs a good sign that you confronted him in your dreams. And that you told him what youâve always wanted to tell him! The thing is, you canât really forgive him if you havenât expressed the anger for what he did to you and how he treated you. You donât need to express it to him, and it wouldnât even be advisable, but youâd need to feel it and express it either to yourself or in therapy â before you can forgive your father.
Because anger in this case is a natural reaction to having been emotionally abused, and it is justified. Once you express your anger (either to yourself in private or in therapy), you can get clear about your boundaries, i.e. what you will and will not tolerate in the future. It will also enable you to forgive your father â as in not hold a grudge against him, not resent him forever. But it will also enable you to protect yourself from his anger and condemnation in the future.
So expressing anger (in a safe environment) is in my opinion the key to move on in a healthy way, which means: without resentment towards the person, but with healthy boundaries.
Okay means I should express this anger to myself first and then therapy? How do I do that to myself first?
About boundaries youâre right and for so long he havenât disrespected any of my boundaries tbh
Yeah, youâd need to validate yourself. Youâd need to tell yourself (and your inner child) that you are worthy, and that youâre worthy simply because you exist. You donât need to do anything to earn your worth â itâs something all of us as human beings innately possess. I think thatâs the bottom line: if you know youâre worthy, you wonât need others to validate you.
Okay so I know what you mean but my rational my mind always ask me questions when I tell myself things like that like how you could be worthy if you havenât done something worthwhile?
So you want to talk to them about some topics that you already know their opinion on (something they donât agree with you?), and you want to try to explain it to them once again? If I understood it correctly?
Yes kinda like that
I understand that you want to have a relationship with them, you donât want to cut ties. And you donât need to cut ties. The way you can do it â to have a relationship without hate on your side â is to process the anger you have against them, as I suggested above. Which means in therapy, or to yourself in private.
You can write down everything you resent them about, separately your father and your mother, and allow yourself to feel your anger (which is justified, remember, because what you went through was emotional abuse). Expressing anger will reset your system and youâll be able to forgive them, but also to set some boundaries, that are respectful to you. You wonât allow to be abused like before.
So youâll be able to love them, but also to love and respect yourself at the same time. Thatâs the only way I know of how you truly healâŚ
I agree with you, Expressing anger in healthier way thatâs what I need to learn now
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Happy birthday, SereneWolf! All the best to you!
Thanks Tee!
Perhaps you chase some big achievement, so you can feel worthy? So your parents would finally be proud of you and acknowledge your worth?
Iâm not sure but I guess my subconscious wants that?
In reality, you are still very young, youâve already accomplished a lot professionally (e.g. you are the youngest manager in your company). Youâre also finishing your bachelors degree while working full time, and are planning to enroll an MBA. Apart from that, youâre constantly improving yourself, both your tech skills and your soft skills. You are learning how to be vulnerable in romantic relationships and are applying that with your new girlfriend. You are willing to self-reflect and challenge yourself⌠I mean, you are doing A LOT, SereneWolf! And you have achieved a lot in your young life. Whoever tells you differently is lying big time!
But I know that those critical voices are still strong in you, and this sentiment is coming from them. Luckily, as you said:Â I wonât give up. Iâm stubborn too
Cheers to that!  And to another challenging/amazing year in front of you!
Thank you so much for always giving me good reminders!
SereneWolfParticipantHello Tee,
My absolute favorite would be a nature walk with my husband, but since I am suffering with mobility in recent years, this is one thing I had to practically give up, and itâs very hard
Oh I can totally understand that. Nature walk are really soothing. And I guess even more when youâre walking with your S/O. I hope you get healthy soon so you can continue your nature walks
Oh I see⌠so you are always on the lookout, fearing that somebody (perhaps your boss or an authority figure?) might be displeased with you and lash out at you (verbally)? So youâre afraid of being judged when among people?
I mean I know theyâre professional they wouldnât lash out at me that easily but easily disappointed because of something? Yeah! But yeah Iâm afraid of being judged
You also donât like people who are constantly critical and try to dominate you (I guess because they remind you of your father?):
Yes Exactly!
I wonder if perhaps your mother showed some of the manipulative behavior in the past, e.g. when she would tell you to be âmatureâ and not react angrily to your father?
Hmm I guess so?
Could it be that you are sensitive to other peopleâs anger/frustration/negativity (because it reminds you of your father)? And that you are also sensitive to âweakerâ emotions, perhaps worry and sadness, because it reminds you of your mother?
I guess itâs bit of both? One of the reasons why I havenât been enough emotionally expressive. Because Iâd feel like Iâm being rude and insensitive to others
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I like the word! Good if you can appreciate her honesty and emotional expressiveness. You donât feel like she is trying to manipulate you with her emotions, right?
Well thatâs easy to answer as of now. Because you know when some people give you bad vibes even though theyâre acting nice with you? So, I donât think sheâs manipulating with her emotions.
Another thing is that itâs hard to know if sheâs emotionally mature or not. Because so far I do like her innocent emotional behaviour. Sheâs like a naĂŻve little girl who doesnât like to bottle up emotions like we âmatureâ adults do
What feels like the biggest work in your current relationship? Whatâs the hardest?
Self esteem, Being emotionally expressive, Being compassionate with myself thatâs what I can think about now
Yes, you canât be the only one âcarryingâ the relationship. Or as weâve talked before, if you are trying to change the other person and be their therapist, then of course it feels like hard work. Because you are trying to work against their own self-sabotage and their resistancesâŚ
And it took me years to realize that đ
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Well, youâll see relatively soon that the person has a lot of issues, they canât be happy, they are addicted, they are self-sabotaging, they are playing hot and cold (one day they are very into you, the next they are rejecting you and being distant) etc etc. So youâll be able to notice that somethingâs not right, that they are fighting an internal battle and canât be really present in the relationship. And then youâll let them go, instead of trying to âsaveâ themâŚ
Right I agree few days ago there was this reel on my IG. She was like after youâre healed, Itâs really easy to see red flags everywhere. And dating will be even harder because you wouldnât just settle with anyone. And there are lot of people who doesnât even know that they need to heal their selves.
Are you talking about the decisions you took in romantic relationships? Like when you followed your intuition and it turned out to be the right decision?
Haha no I mean like workwise decisions. But good question when it comes to romantic relationships, I didnât felt like Iâm taking a big decision.
Well, I think everyone who was exposed to prolonged emotional abuse suffers from CPTSD. Itâs a different name for developmental trauma â it didnât happen suddenly, like one traumatic event, but over a long time, i.e. while growing up. So I guess you have it, same as me and numerous other children with emotionally abusive/unsupportive parents.
Oh right I agree and I think thatâs also the reason that itâs giving me nightmares sometimes
Like just last night I had a dream that my father was angry at me and comparing me with someone but this time I didnât listened, and I got angry at him and told him lot of things that I wanted to tell him! It could be the sign that I still haven’t forgive him and I’m carrying that baggage?
Right… so youâre still afraid of their judgment. You still care what theyâll think of you, and I think itâs because a part of you still believes youâre not good enough. So you need their validation and approval.
Yeah which I think itâs really concerning thing to work on
Yes, you were criticized a lot, and you internalized that voice, and so now you donât only have the voice of your father and grandfather against you, but also your own inner critical voice. So itâs 3 to 1. Three critics to one helpless inner child. Fortunately, youâre developing the positive father voice to counter those critics. But it takes time, it doesnât happen over nightâŚ
Yeah itâs years of their sweat it doesnât going to just disappear over nightđ
But I wonât give up. I’m stubborn too so đ
What exactly did she suggest you talk to them about? I mean, if you still have an unhealthy emotional bond (which in my opinion is the fear of their judgement, i.e. the need for their approval), only you can release that bond. Only you can set yourself free.
Because as you said, your parents will likely not change. Theyâve changed somewhat in the sense that they (specially your father) isnât that judgmental with you any more. But I guess theyâll never approve of all of your decisions, e.g. theyâll never approve of you getting a tattoo
What I am saying is that if you want their blessing to live your life as you please, I donât think youâll get it. And I donât think itâs necessary either. There will be always something they will disagree with. And thatâs fine.
What youâd rather need is to free yourself from the need to get their approval⌠Itâs you who should set yourself free, not themâŚ
I mean I know what you mean and I agree. But she suggested me kind of things that Iâm feared to talk to them I already know their response (Somewhat) Itâs just kind of practice not letting my fear of speaking for myself to be grown even more..
Another thing I know my parents did things knowingly or unknowingly. But I don’t want to be a typical American psycho kid who thinks it’s cool to have not good relationship with their parents because of the rise of modern business “therapy”. Because at the end of the day the day they are part the family, and family does matter. And I’m not saying I want perfect relationship with them because I know it’s not possible, But just not hateful relationship.
This week it was my birthday, Iâm in my late 20s now. And oh dear I definitely felt like âTime is passing too fastâ I mean I know itâs normal and there wasnât any critical voice this time. But it does feel that time is going too fast and I donât know what Iâm trying to get a hold on, World is moving fast, I donât know why am I feeling pulled down and if I donât, I feel like Iâm missing out a lot as of my age.. I guess we always run for big achievements when we think itâs meaningful but after weâve achieved it, It just lost itâs meaning.. So itâs like a constant chasing something that weâre sure we wonât be satisfied withâŚ
SereneWolfParticipantNamaste Tee đ
I am doing a bit better at the moment, thank you. I do say this very cautiously because Iâve had improvements before, followed by a setback⌠but I am starting to feel a little more optimisticâŚ
Iâm glad to know that. Hope youâre having a good weekend. I have a question. What’s your absolute favorite thing to do on weekends that isn’t productivity related?
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You mean, when you are among people, you worry what people will think of you and you want to be liked? And you say things you donât really mean, or something like that?
Hmm not sure about that. But my main concern is I donât like when people feel discomfort around me or specially because of me. It could be because of my childhood wound as well. You see my fatherâs anger was always on the edge so whenever he was around even he was calm I was anxious that at any time heâd flip out so I was constantly anxious and worried about his mood swings.
Well, you said that being among people drains your energy and you donât know how to protect yourself from that. So I asked what are the behaviors you canât protect yourself from. But I guess the real question is: what is so draining when being among people? Perhaps what you said above â that you feel the need to âpeople pleaseâ? As in, maybe you feel the need to be liked, and so you canât be yourself and relaxed?
Okay I got it and I think It could a long list but generally I donât like manipulative behaviours, and most of the time I can sense when people are trying to manipulate me or the others.
I also donât like being around people who are always projecting negative energy and criticizing others all the time. Or when they trying to be dominant with me for what they want.
But I believe particularly sensitive to the emotions of others, and I kind of struggle with managing my own emotions in response to others.So she is emotionally expressive â she expresses her emotions freely. She is not shy to show anger and upset, but also joy and excitementâŚ. if I understood you well? How do you feel about that feature of hers?
I do think itâs kind of a healthy thing since I like things straight forward and itâs something that is easier to read from her? In my previous relationships none of them was this much emotionally expressive I had to ask them things so they can let out things you know.. Yet still I wasn’t sure about it. But Now I have this newfound appreciation for this kind of emotional authenticity? (Don’t know if that’s a right word)
Yeah, Iâd say that in the relationship department, so far you were alternating between a bad connection and no connection. You gravitated towards âno connectionâ in the past months, because you were disappointed with previous relationships. But then you decided to still give it a try. And now youâre in the middle of an experiment, of potentially creating and maintaining a good connectionâŚ
Well yeah I guess so.. But now Iâm realizing how much more work that I have to do.. and it feels like a lot
Hm.. I think that because of troubles with self-love, you easily get into the inner critic (or the outer critic), which then sabotages the relationship. So I think that for you, lack of self-love is what keeps you out of the relationship. Or when you are in a relationship, it prevents vulnerability and intimacy (because youâre afraid to be judged). So, although you may be in a relationship, you donât really engage in emotional giving and receiving. I mean, it seems that so far you havenât. Now, in this latest relationship, this might changeâŚ
Oh yeah that is right. So I need to work on healthy emotional giving and receiving.
Actually, when both parties are emotionally more or less healthy and free to be themselves, a deep intimate relationship isnât that hard to maintain. It sort of flows spontaneously⌠But a lot of work goes into getting to that point of being emotionally healthy, thatâs true.
Yes but finding that kind of a person isnât easy either. With me, I got really emotionally invested and thought I can work and maintain on these things but yeah itâs definitely a two-person job.
There are no guarantees that she is âthe oneâ. But as you grow emotionally more healthy, youâll be able to recognize people who are wholesome and healthy themselves, and you wonât end up wasting your time in draining relationshipsâŚ
Hmm really? How Iâd be able to recognize that?
Yes, be mindful that a lot of those questions (âWhat if I get bored, what if I am wasting my time, what if I get to like her and will need to work hard to maintain the relationship?â) are coming from your fearful self. They are fear speaking through you. And you are learning now to face this fear, not to get into its trap again. So yes, be mindful, just notice it as a strong voice in you, however itâs not the only voice in you. Itâs not the voice of your true self.
Yes I agree itâs nothing less than going on a war with my own self. Fighting with my own fear. Thing that Iâm trying to do is that trying to make notes from my past where I took decision and I was right about it so my rational mind donât always ask me question about it and be little more confident you know.. and I guess It could affect my self-esteem as well. But if you have better suggestion you’re more than welcome
Yes, surrender as in accept the things as they are, even if they are bad at the moment. And hope that they will get better⌠so yes, I am learning to accept it, but also not to lose hopeâŚ
Thatâs good! Keep it up! đ
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Wrist, ankle, forearm, underneath the collarbone, hip area⌠I am no expert, but am sure there are a lot of ideas on the internet.
I do have Pinterest board but itâs been a while and itâs not easy to choose.
I also had an appointment with my therapist. She told me Iâm doing quite good progress. And I talked about CPTSD as well. So listened things carefully and ask me lot of scenario type questions about my childhood. But she said she isnât sure about and said there is really mild signs about it. But still we can work on it.
One of the questions that could be helpful for us.
So she already know that Itâs been a while that Iâm living on my own.
So she asked me What happens if you buy something expensive without asking your parents? How theyâd react and how youâd feel?
And I said Iâd still feel hesitant about it because Iâd be worried what theyâd think and feel guilty because I havenât even asked them.
So she asked me questions like that and said I still have fearful emotional pattern that I need to work on. Even though now Iâm financially independent now Iâm still attached to this kind of unhealthy emotional bond⌠She actually suggested me to talk more with my parents about this kind of things so they would be aware that Iâm much more grown up than what they might think
Fearful emotional patten and self-esteem these two things mainly she gave me homework for… Because like we talked, she said because of long term of criticism from every side (even my inner critic) My self-esteem took lot of damage and I have to heal that…
SereneWolfParticipantHola Tee,
How are you doing?Definitely itâs a good experiment to try to socialize more and see how you feel about people⌠if you still feel theyâre very different and you feel like an alien?
Right but Iâm kinda getting that I still have people pleasing behaviour
Are you saying that she gets upset by something (some human behavior), and this same behavior doesnât affect you that much? Or she gets super excited about something, and youâre like âmeh, nothing specialâ?
Yes kinda like that.
And there was also a bad connection, Iâd say, during your LDR. Because that relationship was mostly frustrating for you, right?
Well yeah I guess we can count as a bad connection
Yes, for example we should love ourselves and feel lovable, without needing to get love from someone else. Or we shouldnât feel helpless like a child and wait for someone else to fix our problems. I think those are examples of emotional self-sufficiency.
But I think because self-loving is still isnât easy for me maybe thatâs why Iâm finding myself going towards emotional giving and receiving
Yeah, youâd probably like to fix the problem ASAP and make them stop (crying, or being upset or whatever). Whereas the best thing you can do is to simply listen and show empathy. You donât need to fix anything, and your partner doesnât even want it, in most cases. They only want empathy and understanding (remember that short video about the nail in the head? )
Yes I do remember that well and as Iâm practicing empathy, but I guess because of my work, my problem solving abilities takes the turn first you know đ
Oh I see⌠youâre filtering all critical and unsupportive people from your life⌠cool! good strategy!
Thanks hahaOkay, so you can ask yourself: what if I like her more with time? Whatâs the worst thing that can happen?
Umm a serious hard maintaining relationship that I have to work hard for!?
Or what if I feel bored with her after some time? And like what if she is not on the same page as me?
Exactly the thing that Iâm scared about⌠Wasting my time and energy on a person
She is different than the usual type youâre attracted to (insecure, low self-esteem). I think thatâs whatâs scary because you canât apply the usual tactics of your outer critic, which would be to see her as inferior and imperfect (which would then serve as an excuse to distance yourself from her). The inner critic is trying to sabotage you, by telling you you are worse than her in some respects. But nowadays youâre watching for the inner critic and youâre not believing everything it says. So the inner critic isnât managing to sabotage the relationship so easily eitherâŚ
But something in you (hint: the inner child) is still afraid, and so youâre coming up with these what-if questions, which serve the same purpose: to sabotage the relationship. My suggestion is to notice that too: that these what-if hypothetical questions serve the same purpose, and so not to give too much weight to them. If you want to try to push through the fear some moreâŚHmm so basically be mindful and not overthink about these things? Well Iâm trying and yeah youâre right I maybe comparing myself like that but I know that we both donât have be perfect in every regard. We can just learn things from each otherâŚ
Thank you! Yes, itâs hard when it gets physical, when itâs your body that aches and there is no escape from pain.
Yes I can understand even though I donât have much experience with physical pain but the thing is I did spent time with people close to me in the hospital and it doesnât feel easy.
I feel that I could much more easily deal with emotional pain than with physical pain.
Well at least one less thing to worry and you worked on yourself all these years, so I guess thatâs why itâs much easier for you
Because I canât just think about it differently, so that it doesnât cause pain any more. Although I think I can still be telling myself a positive, optimistic story, or I can be telling myself a negative, hopeless story (like that Iâll never get better). And that too makes a difference⌠But itâs hard, thereâs no doubt about itâŚ
Yes, it is hard. When I talked to my therapist first time, she explained the Surrender in that way. Because as a human nature we want to know things for sure, Otherwise because of uncertainty we get anxious.. and result even more less energy⌠So I believe surrender + hope are much better in situations like this..
Whatâs the worst kind of behavior that you feel you canât protect yourself from?
Hmm Iâm not really sure đ¤
I guess I have think back analyse more
You meant like behaviours that I canât tolerate?No, I donât have any tattoos. Not my style, and besides, Iâve got many birthmarks, so Iâd worry about damaging those. So no, no tattoos for me
Oh that many birthmarks? So itâs like your body jewelry?
If you worry about how the tattoo will look, Iâd choose a spot which doesnât depend on your muscular mass. So somewhere where it always looks the same, regardless of how fit you are
Hmm and those are? đ
SereneWolfParticipantHi Tee,
Yes, definitely. I mean, a part of the problem could be that youâre an introvert and you donât feel good in large crowds (I am like that too!). But a part of the problem could be that you see people as different, and yourself as alien, and this might contribute to feeling trapped or endangered in some way.
Well yeah youâre right and thatâs why these days I do try to socialize more. (As an experiment) Thatâs why I noticed that and I told you⌠Iâm just too much comfortable with my own company but I do need to get out of my comfort zone without draining my energy. And Iâm an ambivert.
In what sense? Can you give me an example?
Like for me Iâm not much emotionally expressive. Or like I just donât get surprised with lot of human behaviour or things. I find it really normal. But her she like really emotionally expressive like a high school girl who feels too much you know đ
Great! At least youâre aware what to watch out for, and even if you start comparing yourself with others, you can recognize it as an inner critic mechanism, and know that itâs a lie, itâs an illusion, not reality.
Yes! And before there was time where I used to just blindly believe everything my inner critical voice told me because I didnât know the difference between my own self and inner critical voice.
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Well, this term âemotional self-sufficiencyâ just kind of came to me, I havenât read it anywhere. I did look it up now and it has both positive and negative connotations. But what I meant is that we are wired for connection (Henry Cloudâs video âWhy itâs important to stay connectedâ talks about it. I mentioned it a while ago and I think you watched it).
I see but this term is pretty self-explanatory so I get it, And Yes Iâve watched the video and I told you that Iâm mostly between good connection to no connection back and forth
Healthy relationships are good for our health and well-being. For example, married men live longer. And for women, those women live longer who have a network of supportive friendships. So emotional giving and receiving is very important. In that sense I said that emotional self-sufficiency isnât a good thing: itâs not good if we donât have emotional exchange and connection with anyone. And if we guard ourselves from it.
It doesnât mean we should be needy and clingy. Someone who is alone can be happy and fulfilled too. But someone who is emotionally healthy will not guard themselves from emotional closeness with safe and supportive people. Because thatâs what makes our life richer and more enjoyableâŚ
Hmm I see so you mean there should be a good balance right?
So youâre afraid you wouldnât know how to react if your partner is sad or anxious?
I mean I know what to do but I just overreact in those particular situations and try to make them in better state ASAP otherwise I feel anxious as well.
Â
I guess youâre filtering out the very strict and judgmental types automatically â youâre not attracted to that type of girls. I mean, your current girlfriend is self-confident, but sheâs probably not judgmental like your father, so it doesnât trigger the escape reflex immediately?
Haha I donât remember Iâve been with any strict and judgmental type girl even as female or male friend. Creating the good supportive circle you know? đ
But I think that possibility of turn this into something else is just scaring me like what If I like her more with time? Or what if I feel bored with her after some time? And like what if she is not on the same page as me? So questions like this as well her different but confident persona is something I feel…I think thatâs just an excuse. Because there are girls who like traveling and exploring similarly like you. Maybe girls wouldnât appreciate some reckless feats, if thatâs what youâre into. But definitely there are adventurous types out there, with whom you wouldnât need to miss out on anything.
Well yeah I know but because I still havenât met those types girls much itâs just my old belief I guess
Staying positive and optimistic in spite of persistent health problems and chronic painâŚ.
Inner and outer youâre dealing with both of these things which isnât easy at all. Iâm proud of you and I hope you progress better and healthier way with that. đ¤
Absolutely yes. Itâs when our rational mind is not in the forefront, and weâre in touch with our senses and our intuition⌠thatâs when the best ideas comeâŚ
Yup. I love it!
Maybe this is same problem that you were talking about above â you donât like crowds because they drain your energy? But maybe it can be applied to certain people too â they drain your energy and you donât know how to protect yourself from that?
Yes exactly and I don’t know how to protect myself from that for sure!
As for not falling asleep in the afternoon, how about watching some of those videos on your watch list?  (Turns out it was already on my watchlist but I still havenât watched it.) Because for me, such videos (not all, but with good presenters) can be quite captivating and not something Iâd doze off with.
I agree! And turns out I already watched that video and when we were talking about implementing new things for fresher employees. Video was one of the reason for that idea! Also it made me think deeper about vulnerability as well as empathy. And how important connection is⌠But another thing I liked about the video is the storytelling. As a Leader I think itâs really important skill to cultivate.
Â
I see⌠well, how big of a tattoo are you planning? If itâs huge and sort of âin your faceâ, it might not be good from a business perspective either â if you want to present yourself as a solid business person. But if itâs something more discrete, itâs very common nowadays and not a big deal. And if it would make you happy, why notâŚ
Haha Nothing that shows too much. Like not on the face or neck. But l prefer around the shoulder, back, hands, biceps and maybe chest. Â But yeah mostly desecrate. Yeah I know itâs normal nowadays but there are two things. One judgment from my family and another thing is that gaining enough weight so tattoos look much better. Have you got any tattoos though?
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