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November 19, 2023 at 8:23 am in reply to: Confused on How to Deal With This Side of My Boyfriend: Am I overreating? #425121
anitaParticipantHow are you, anonymous03? I hope my last very long message to you was not too much…?
anita
November 19, 2023 at 8:13 am in reply to: Seeing a man still living with his ex after 20 yrs. #425120anitaParticipantHow are you and your fur babies, Shookie?
anita
anitaParticipantHow is Everything, Cat?
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, Peace?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Luna:
I am well, thank you.
“we all begin to build our understanding of emptiness, and it is striking to know that the experience of it never really ends either“- amazingly, the experience of Emptiness, on a personal level, did end for me in the last few years and most significantly, in the last year. It happened some time after I moved from a very big city to an agricultural town where everyone seems to know everyone and people are predominantly kind and have treated me kindly, like an equal.
The change in how I feel as a result is.. seems like depression is gone, the despair is gone. I feel more alive, as in looking forward to life, instead of hiding from it. In real life, I reach out to people I never met (ex., people who visit this town from a big city to the south or north) excitedly, like a child eager to connect, without the previous shame and self consciousness.
“I’ve never watched that movie. I’ll have to try“- the technological side to the movie is not evolved, so it’s not as fancy as later movies.. but maybe you will like it because of that. This movie inspired me so much at the time, that I left the country I grew up in, all by myself, on a journey inspired by the journey of Atreyu, a child warrior, a character in the movie.
Here is a quote from the movie (G’mork is the agent of The Nothing):
“Atreyu: What is the Nothing?
– G’mork: It’s the emptiness that’s left. It’s like a despair, destroying this world. And I have been trying to help it.
– Atreyu: But why?
– G’mork: Because people who have no hopes are easy to control; and whoever has the control… has the power!”Isn’t it true.. what G’mork said… ?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Saje:
You are welcome, and I am well, thank you!
Back on July 15, 2021, you shared the following quote: “Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are. When you realise there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.” Lao Tzu.
How is the quote working for you these days, 2 years, 4 months and 3 days later?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Hamza:
You are welcome and I am well, thank you!
You expressed (I am paraphrasing) that you accomplished 95% healing in regard to the relationship with her, and you are wondering if you can accomplish the remaining 5% without blocking her on social media, and without apologizing to her for not replying to her email of almost a year ago..
(I am adding the boldface feature to your quotes from here on): You expressed that you “worry about what she thinks about what I post online”, that in regard to what you post online, you are “trying to show her how good my life is”, that you don’t want to “come across petty” to her, if you block her; that you have trouble with the “irreversible decision to permanently cut all chords” with her (once you block her), and that if you don’t block her, she “she continues to live in my head as I feel ‘watched'”.
Before I respond to the above, I want to re-read and summarize what you shared back in January: she initiated the breakup on Aug 1, 2022. At the end of November 2022, the two of you met and you remorsefully apologized for everything you did wrong in the 3.5-year relationship with her. She followed up by sending you a long, gracious online message where she expressed her concern (in regard to your suggestion that the two of you would become friends and see where it goes), that she might not be able to fall back in love with you, and that it will hurt you even more than you were already hurt. In early December 2022, you sent her a message saying “I’ll come back to her as soon as I am able to do so”- and (fast forward to today, almost a year later), you never came back to her. That was the last contact you had with her.
On January 5, 2022, you wrote: “I feel like I’ve already lost all respect in her eyes by first pretending I was mutually ok with the breakup, then trying to get her back, then trying to be friends, then going NC, then saying I’ve accepted the breakup, then… I feel I’ve made every mistake in the book and have gone from someone she respected and loved to someone she doesn’t respect and love, or worse yet, looks down upon. The most important thing for me, above all, above getting her to fall for me again – is to pursue a path forward that restores my dignity and self-respect. How do I do this? Walk away forever now, or re-initiate contact as friends, get her to see the strong me one or two times, and then walk away forever”.
Back to yesterday, November 17, 2023: when you post on social media, you still “worry about what she thinks”, and she “she continues to live in my head as I feel ‘watched'”.
My input today: somehow she has become, in your mind, the one holding your sense of self worth hostage. As in.. it’s up to her to declare you worthy or unworthy, deserving respect or deserving disrespect. This is why you’ve been stuck in analysis-paralysis for so long: the weight you have placed in what she thinks of you is so heavy that.. you haven’t been able to move one way or the other.
She is engaged to another man now.. but still, in your mind, she is holding your sense of self worth and respectability hostage.
And because this is the situation, whatever I suggest to you is not likely to get you to move one way or another, is it? I mean, it’s what you think that she thinks (not what anyone else thinks) that’s holding you down, isn’t it?
You wrote yesterday: “I’ve been seeing a therapist regularly for the last 12 months and will continue doing so. I guess I’m just wondering if there’s a way for me to get to 100% without blocking her..“- didn’t you ask this question ‘in therapy.. again and again? Did you discuss in therapy about what I mentioned here in my input?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Priyan:
You are welcome.
(I will be adding the boldface feature to the following quotes): “In this month I have been totally honest with her about my feelings and intentions. I told her how I felt about her the first night we met and what made me change my mind and develop actual romantic feelings for her”-
– I think that she has not been totally honest with you about her feelings and intentions.
“Every time I reminded her about our FWB agreement when she wanted something too intimate her response would be ‘Don’t worry, I will never expect anything from you other than your physical presence and sex‘. So, I assumed we both were on the same page”-
– Repeatedly (“every time”), she wanted something too intimate (not FWB-congruent), repeatedly you reminded her of the FWB agreement.. and repeatedly, she told you what I think is not true. I think that she did expect something from you other than your physical presence and sex,. I think (at this point) that her expectation/ intent/ goal was that you will develop romantic feelings for her. Not for the purpose of entering a traditional, romantic relationship with you, but for the purpose of her feeling in-control of you and of the relationship.
“I know for a fact that her behavior towards me did not change after I said I only wanted sex from her“- she kept her romantic gestures going for as long as you didn’t express a romantic interest in her.
“What baffles me”- when one is dishonestly manipulated.. one is baffled.
“What baffles me is she seemed to have lost interest in me only after I confessed my feelings“- when you confessed your romantic feelings for her, her goal/ interest (that you will want to be in a romantic relationship with her) was satisfied: she was in control. To maintain her control, she withdrew her romantic gestures (keeping you wanting what you can not get).
“She never outright came and told me she had feelings for me. That is what made me think if I had imagined her feelings for me”- when one is dishonestly manipulative, one does not says things outright (openly and without holding back), but the opposite.
“I told her how I… develop(ed) actual romantic feelings for her. She heard all this and said she had seen me only as a friend since the beginning and never saw me as potential romantic partner. I went to the extent of even asking her if she felt any connection when we had sex and her reply was: ‘No, I just enjoyed the act’“-
– I don’t know if she ever saw you as a potential romantic partner. I think that she wanted you to want to be her romantic partner. It may be that she has been turning around the traditional dynamic of the woman being the one interested in romance vs the man being interested in sex, taking on the.. strong gender role/ the-one-in-control in this dynamic.
“Do you still think that I did not imagine her feelings for me? After hearing her answer about the sex, I can’t possible imagine she had feelings for me once”-
– I think that you didn’t imagine that her expressions “(wanting you to spend the night/ weekend with her, sending you amorous text messages, etc.) were romantic, I think that they were romantic expressions. At this point though, I don’t know if those expressions were sincere or strictly manipulative.
I will now re-read your original post, looking for answers: shortly after you told her in the beginning that you would like to seriously date her, she “came back after a week and said that she was not ready to emotionally invest in a relationship, but, she would be willing to casually hook up as she found me attractive”-
– she made you an offer most men will not refuse: to casually hook up with a woman they are attracted to. At this point of my developing understanding, I think that she set a trap for you when she offered you this irresistible offer, and the trap was for you to end up being- as you are now- emotionally invested in a romantic relationship with her.
When she left the country for 5 weeks, “She made it a point to video call me everyday and ask me about my day. She would also regularly send me amorous text messages that strongly hinted romantic feelings“- she didn’t want her.. work (all she did to cause you to emotionally invest in a romantic relationship with her) to lose momentum because of physical distance, so she kept herself in your mind by frequent contact and she upped her romantic gestures.
“(I) confessed mine to her… We still continue to meet for sex. She does text me everyday but she had stopped sending me those amorous texts and stopped using my pet name. Her calls have gotten less frequent“- you confessing your romantic feelings= her mission accomplished. After that.. her goal is maintenance: to keep you wanting her romantically by keeping you from getting what you want.
The last part of your original post: “The last few weeks have been really difficult for me. I know the right thing to do would be cut ties with her and walk away, but, I am having a hard time accepting what happened”-
– It will be easier to accept what happened when you understand what happened.
“I understand how FWB works“-
– I think that the central theme of the relationship has not how FWB works, but how she works: she uses the FWB factor as a way for her to be in-control of you and of the relationship via dishonest manipulation.
“How did I end up in this situation?“- you didn’t know.. how she works..
Do you think I understand the situation correctly, in part or in whole? (I am checking my understanding with you).
“How do I let this go and deal with the pain?“- let’s talk about it further, shall we?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Hamza:
Welcome back to your thread more than 9.5 months after the last time you posted here!
“I am feeling 95% better and normal again, though still suffer from intrusive thoughts / memories of her on a daily basis. Where do I go from here?“-
– How about quality, professional psychotherapy, one that will include treatment for intrusive thoughts?
“I feel shame that despite saying ‘I’ll get back to you’, I never got back to her, and wonder what she thinks about me. On the other hand, I also am starting to feel indifferent about the whole thing and thinking of never reaching out again… I am confused and stressed and anxious about what I do next. Do I block her. Do I remain indifferent and just forget about her..“-
– although you feel indifferent at times, overall, reads to me that you are not indifferent. Seems to me that psychotherapy that will address your obsessive thinking (about her) is the place to go, at this time.
I have suffered from OCD much of my life, so I know how draining it is to obsess about someone or something…
I am glad that you are feeling a lot better some of the time, and hope that you will feel way better much of the time.
(I will be away from the computer for the rest of the day).
anita
anitaParticipantDear Priyan:
You asked: “How did I end up in this situation?“- let’s see…: you (32) were sexually attracted to a woman (37) in a bathing suit, in a public pool=> you had dinner with her the same evening, an evening with “lots of sexual tension“. You told her that evening that you “would like to seriously date her“, and she didn’t give you an answer=> a week later, she gave you an answer: “not ready to emotionally invest in a relationship, but, she would be willing to casually hook up“.
Next, you hooked up and the relationship fit the Friends With Benefits category (a relationship that is sexual but not romantic, no commitment and no strings attached. It can be short term or long term. The extent of emotional involvement in different FWB relationships is different because no two people are identical and therefore, no two FWB relationships is identical).
Next, “she wanted to cuddle and talk after sex… she started texting and calling me every day and even expected me to stay the night with her when she got sick“=> you told her that you were “not looking for anything other than sex from her“-
– I suppose that your initial motivation “to seriously date her” was.. not your true motivation when you had dinner with her on the same day you met her for the first time.. that it was something you said at the time while under the influence, so to speak, of all that “lot of sexual tension“…?
* It is possible that at that point, when you told her that you were not looking for anything other than sex with her, that her feelings were hurt.
Next, you started staying nights with her, even entire weekends and accompanied her on shopping trips during which “she made sure that I never touched her/held her hand in public and never introduced me to her friends or family“. When she left the country for 5 weeks, she regularly sent you amorous, romantic text messages and used a pet name for you. It is at that time that you “started developing feeling for her“- romantic feelings, that is.
Next, you told her that you had feelings for her, and her response: “she showed no emotions and asked for some time to think about it“. Next, she said “she didn’t feel the same way. She said she saw me only as a good friend and an awesome sexual partner and nothing else“.
When you brought up to her the romantic, amorous text messages she sent you when out of the country, she told you that “she thought she felt something when we were apart but those feelings went away after she saw me in person and had sex“.
Currently, the two of you still “meet for sex“, but she no longer sends you amorous texts and she no longer uses a pet name for you.
“Did I misread her cues and signals?.. Or was it my imagination that she felt something for me?“- I don’t think that you misread her cues and signals; that it was your imagination that she had romantic feelings for you. I think that she really did have romantic feelings for you.
“Or did I do something that made her lose interest in me?“- possibly when you told her, after she clearly expressed a romantic need for you, that you were not looking for anything other than sex with her. No doubt that such a statement would offend many women.
“How do I let this go and deal with the pain?“- I am sorry that you are dealing with pain. If the two of you were able to be very honest with each other, that would help the two of you!
Maybe you can show her how honest you can be, and that will motivate her to reciprocate your honesty.
Here is what this honesty I am referring to may look like, as an example of what could be true to your situation (I don’t know what is true because a very honest conversation between the two of you didn’t yet take place): the two of you met in a pool, sexual tension was high on your part, maybe more than on her part. During the first dinner, fueled by sexual tension, you told her that you seriously wanted to date her (but meant that.. you seriously wanted to have sex with her). Scared of having her feelings hurt yet again in the context of a traditional relationship (as I am guessing happened many times in her past, particularly being that she is 37), she wanted to protect herself by placing the relationship in the FWB box.
Next, she wanted out of that box (yet, not ready to leave it), but when you told her that for you, she belongs in that box (that you were not looking for anything other than sex with her), you kind of added a lock to that box. You eventually developed romantic feelings for her and told her about it.. but she heard- and answered you- from within that box.
What do you think…?
anita
November 17, 2023 at 7:03 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #425098anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I wanted to add to my last night’s short message: I wish you a good last weekend of acting in the Shakespearean play you are part of, and a good Friday-Sunday with your mom. Keep it light on the relationship front with B (shouldn’t be difficult since you’d be so busy), and calm yourself whenever you feel too stressed, so that you don’t overreact to people and situations.
If you find yourself stressed or too intense in regard to your mother this weekend, you are very welcome to take time-out from her (press Pause on the conversation/ excuse yourself and go to the computer), and as you suggested: journal about it here, on your thread. I will be glad to read and reply as soon as I am able.
anita
November 16, 2023 at 8:24 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #425090anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
It sounds good to me, it does!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
How have you been feeling in the last 3 days since you posted?
Last Monday, you wrote: “I feel like… I am not capable to… save myself. To be my own parent“.
First, it takes getting acquainted with your inner child. Here is from John Bradshaw’s inner child worksheets available online, no cost ( (www. scribd. com/ inner child worksheets):
“Questionnaire for getting Acquainted with our Inner Child- Complete the following with as many answers as come to your mind:
1. As a child, I heard that my most significant faults were…… 2. As a child, I felt guilty for/ when…..
.. 5. Messages I received about money were… 6. I felt rejection when… 7. I felt fear when… 8. I felt anger when…”.
There is much more in the worksheets, in the section I quoted from, and in other sections. If you want, if you can, you are welcome to fill in parts of the worksheets here, on your thread.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Jay:
(I am the one adding the boldface feature to the following quote): “There was quite a lot of positive body language from her, granted there was a moderate amount of wine involved… The evening ended with what I would refer was a firm hug and ‘lets do coffee‘. Next day I send her a msg saying how nice it was to see her and let’s do coffee, 4 days later I get a response and it seems its (now) been defined as a ‘business’ coffee… What would you do?”-
– offer her: let’s do (a moderate amount of) wine, instead of coffee…?
Rarely do I suggest a simple solution, but maybe it is appropriate here, since as you know, alcohol relaxes and caffeine does the opposite.
* I am not promoting alcohol as a way of life when dating or otherwise.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Luna:
I am well, thank you and you are welcome, a pleasure to communicate with you.
(I am adding the boldface feature to the quote): “It was really comforting to know that I’m not alone in my experience of emptiness… I wish that yours find peace and joy during these hectic times…. keeping hope and seeing the light in friendships today is inspiring when everyone seems to lose patience and clarity of what really matters: Genuine and healthy human connections“- You express yourself so well.
I believe that it is emptiness, or as I typed it, emptiness with a capital E, that is behind these hectic times we live in, the violence, the wars. If only genuine and healthy human connections were common, beginning inside homes as children grow up, the world would be a different place. Emptiness (lack of genuine and healthy human connections) creates sickness, impatience, confusion.. and wars. Genuine and healthy human connections create patience, clarity and peace.
It reminds me of the 1984 fantasy movie The Never Ending Story. In it, The Nothing is a force that was destroying the magnificent land of Fantasia, a force representing the consuming despair of people who lose their hopes, dreams, and meaning in life.
For me, The Nothing is synonymous with Emptiness.
“I’ve spent the past month reevaluating my relationships and it has gotten to a point where I’m just drained from it. I’m very much aware that I need new energy into my life… by one sided friendship, I meant that I felt like our friendship was at the bottom of her priorities… I have given her a chance to get together and talk on her own timing but she didn’t show up“-
– genuine and healthy human connections invigorate, energize, revive, rejuvenate or comfort and calm the distressed mind. Too many human connections (between parents and children, between siblings, between husbands and wives.. between coworkers, between strangers on the street and in the supermarket, between people online, etc.) drain, misuse, abuse or create positive expectations that are not followed through.
“With so much love and peace… love and compassion“- may love and compassion in our words and behaviors lead to peace in the hearts and minds of the people we interact with, and in the world as a whole.
anita
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