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Yes, but versus don’t know .. mind

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  • #452655
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Hello Alessa,

    It isn’t that there is nothing new in James posts or threads. After all, it is what it is. But, I feel his words lacks the feel of the real truth. Yes, he thinks I judge and criticize and compare. I do. I think everyone does to some degree. But, I am also on a spiritual journey of my own. I have met real teachers who present the most profound insights and teachings that it has to come from an inner source. James believes that no one can help me. Well if that is true then please let it be the last message he sends me. His rhetoric, although there isn’t anything that is not true, doesn’t seem to come from a completed realized truth. I don’t know. Maybe he is the next prophet but not for me. I get the terrible feelings that he has experienced something but has not completed enough training to be preaching. Yeah, that is my prejudice.

    Someone said to me that I needed to control my physical desires and my emotional feelings and my thoughts as a prelude to becoming enlightened. I could only respond by saying that enlightenment is not for me if those are the requirements. Cause I have no physical control. When I am hungry, I eat. When I am tired, I sleep. Cause I have no control over my emotions. When I see my wife, I feel love there and a sense of peace. When I see someone getting hurt, my empathy or compassion comes out. My thoughts runs rampart and I have no way to control its intentions. So, yeah, there is no “one” who can help me.

    I don’t preach. I am not like James. I have no wise words to pass on. Only what I have seen and think to be true. If that has ruffled a few feathers then I apologize for being the wind in the sandstorm. Sorry for all the misery I have caused.

    #452675
    Roberta
    Participant

    hi

    I read your words, they are black on white, & yet my mind adds tone & personality to it even though I do not know you.
    I wonder how much peace, love, compassion & gratitude is actively & passively sprinkled through your day?
    Long ago I had red hair & occasionally outburst of fiery temper now I am old and grey but still can be quick to judge, but I am lucky to have friends who help me see different perspectives, this is a two way street of vibrant & loving discourse, we do not take theses interjections personally.
    peace on earth & goodwill to all men

    #452677
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Hello Roberta,

    Thanks for the post. That is quite an introduction. Am pleased to meet you.

    Long ago red hair and outburst of fiery temper? I wish I met you long ago. Now old and grey? I wish to meet you now.
    Long ago I had hair and now I am bald (mostly and shave the rest).

    Quick, judge me and tell me what you think. Am I a silly fart with no sense. Do I make trouble wherever I go? Do I judge others too harshly? Does my ego prevent me from learning from others? Okay, never mind I don’t want to know. You can be so mean … lol.

    Can I be your friend who helps you see different perspectives? Maybe?

    Yes, peace on earth and good will to all men. A lovely saying.

    #452678
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Tommy

    I don’t think you have ruffled feathers or caused misery. I’m used to men talking. I enjoy having men around on the forum. It’s nice to see. 🩵

    Everyone has things that resonate with them and things that don’t? Things they feel drawn to explore and otherwise?

    What is complete realised truth? 🩵

    Once upon a time I used to feel that my judgement was normal. Until, I realised one day it wasn’t. Sometimes things that we are drawn to change and unfold in their own time. 🩵

    Ah well, the likelihood of becoming enlightened in this life is minute for all of us. You are not alone. I’m not a monk, so I don’t worry about that. 😊

    #452682
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Hey Alesa,

    What is complete realised truth? Good question.
    Having a realization or a Kensho experience doesn’t make one enlightened.
    It is more like what some call “stream entry”. It is a glimpse of what is possible.
    So a person can go thru all the lessons and have such an experience.
    It doesn’t mean the transition is complete.
    It is only a beginning. It takes much more practice to learn the whole truth.
    Much like shining a flashlight into a very dark hole.
    One sees spots and conditions which are available to one at the moment.
    But, it isn’t the complete picture.

    In some Buddhist traditions, it may take a few lifetimes to gain enlightenment.
    In Zen, one is already enlightened. It only takes one to realize this truth.
    So enlightenment is possible in this lifetime.
    If you have a good teacher then the teacher would know how to point out what in your practice is right.
    Point you closer and closer to reaching the enlightened mind. To realize emptiness, stillness.
    One sees the truth that all things are empty. Form is empty. The practice deepens and brings insight with it.
    One sees the reality as it is and not deluded by our mind and thoughts.
    The only measure of realizing the truth of our nature is the awakened mind.

    I don’t worry about reaching for something I have no need for. It holds no value for me.
    I can not share it. I can not trade it. If asked then I can not even show it.
    So the truth is,…
    Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.
    After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.

    Oh, I am sorry if I sound like a broken record.
    I also do not want to sound like I am preaching.
    I have no wise words to spread.
    It use to be “Yes, But”. Now, it is “Don’t know”

    #452691
    Roberta
    Participant

    Welcome friend or could I say doubting Thomas or both, not one nor two ha ha

    Wild woman with red hair sought happiness in unskillful ways many times & that is putting it politely, not that I am ignoring or denying my skeletons I have taken them out & danced with them, many I hope have crumbled to dust from me admitting my mistakes & trying to make repartition, but take away or change one of my foolish acts or my acts of compassion then the two sons & my two grandchildren would not exist in this present manifestation such is the tapestry of my life, your life, all lives.

    I think we mainly live with conventual truth & can only ponder & glimpse at ultimate truth briefly. If we take our bodies for instance it has grown & now may be shrinking as well over these many years. In a sense it is the Centre of our universe any yet cells live & die constantly, we have a whole microbiome in our guts for whom in a sense we are god & their universe, the food we give them, the antibiotics that wage war on them the peace treaties of pre & probiotic fuel. If we have nits do we not commit genocide to get rid of them? Sorry if I have offended anyone who thinks that I am being glib.
    Anyway got to go & do an apology text, weed the garden of thoughtlessness, plant some seeds of forgiveness & love

    #452693
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Thanks for the greeting. Doubting Thomas, … struck a chord. You sound like you have a life well lived, living. Skeletons? Didn’t Jesus say who has not sinned can throw the first stone? Never knew why Jesus didn’t throw the first stone? Was he a sinner too? Sorry, off topic. My mind tends to drift. So, living a good life. Everyday enough to eat. Family and friends to talk to.

    Family, that is great. It is one of the things in life that I truly appreciate. Oh, how relationships change with time? First care taker then teacher and guardian. Later distant relative. Then dependent on those once taken care of. Lucky for me, I can still take care of myself for now.

    I try not to think about killing germs or bacteria. As I do prefer to eat rather than be eaten. That is why Cancer scares me. It has taken a relative and an old friend. Hmmm, back to something less morbid please. Do you garden? My wife loves it. Food for the summer months. Friends who also garden. Sharing seeds. Ideas. In the summer mornings she stands at the window and looks out at her garden. There is a sense of peace there in her.

    Well, it has been nice talking with you.

    #452704
    Roberta
    Participant

    Hi Thomas whyus (aquinas)
    Check out the quotes from a previous incarnation including this one – “sorrow can be alleviated by good sleep a bath & a glass of wine” or in my case chocolate or “We must love them both, those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject, for both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in finding it.”

    Just like you he waxes between going deep into truths & lightly making us smile.

    My mothers greatest fear was cancer, she hated the thought of her body rebelling against her. There is a phrase Be careful what you wish for or in her case what she most dreaded. okay I too will get off morbid subject.

    My garden has sadly been neglected this year in favor of looking after my father. I did plant a load of butternut squash plants – result one small gourd! At the moment my 3 chickens & 1 runner duck are free ranging for the winter. Come the spring I will hopefully have both the time & enthusiasm to bring about a little order from the chaos. I can see part of the garden from my bathroom it always brings a smile to my face to see my grandmother’s hydrangea bush, keeping me connected to my roots no matter what is happening with the weather.
    Anyway wishing you & your green fingered wife goodnight

    #452705
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Tommy

    Ah so you practice Zen Buddhism? I don’t know much about that branch. Thanks for explaining. Yes, I would agree. 🩵

    So it that similar to the concept of the seed of buddha nature being within us all?

    I feel similarly. I have too much on my plate to worry about enlightenment. I prefer to keep things simple. Take care of my family. 🩵

    You are too humble. Plenty of wisdom to share yet. 😉 🩵

    #452711
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Hi Alessa,

    Practice Zen Buddhism?? I don’t believe I practice Zen Buddhism. I don’t go to the church or temple or gatherings of Zen Buddhist. I have an interest and read much about it. I do sit in meditation everyday. And, I have encountered many who do follow Zen Buddhism or something about Buddha or Tao (not really sure what that is). Some believe in God and some do not. The thing I found about Zen Buddhism is that one doesn’t have to follow or believe. Can try to find the truth for oneself.

    Sorry, I do not have much wisdom to share. Anything I have said can be found in books about Zen Buddhism. I especially love stories that present teachings. Like the story of the two monk who came upon a woman trying to cross a small stream. The first monk picked her up and carried her over to the other side. Put her down and bowed. Later the second monk tried to remind the first monk that they were not suppose to touch women. The first monk says he put the woman down, back at the small stream and asked why does the second monk still carries her. I won’t give out the lesson to be learned as the journey to the answer is just as important as the answer.

    I am sorry if my push pull against James has upset anyone. It was not my intent. I did want to rattle the cage and see what comes out. Holding it to the light, the picture comes out. I have my opinion of him. And will do my best to stay out of his threads. This forum doesn’t have an enlightened teacher. So James playing the wise man, well I guess it is what it is. It might help some. For me, I think I would like to dance to a different tune. Just being different or is it difficult??

    Roberta said, “Anyway wishing you & your green fingered wife goodnight”

    Thank you and good nite. I hope only my wife’s thumb is green. LOL.

    #452893
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Tommy

    Fair enough! That is more than most do. 🩵

    I don’t mind believing, but I don’t like to put labels on it. 😊

    I like stories too. Hmm well, it would seem to me that not helping is a bigger problem than touching. But of course it is still important to be mindful of rules.

    It reminds me of before a Buddha passed away, he told the monks that they didn’t have to follow the lesser rules all the time because they were not as serious. But the monks decided to follow them anyway out of respect for his teachings. 🩵

    I don’t know if you would agree with what came to mind for me?

    It is okay! I was curious too. Nothing wrong with being different. 🩵

    #452896
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Hello Alessa,

    The story of the two monks does say that we as people should be helpful to others in need. But, for me, it was more profound that the second monk carried the woman for longer than the first monk. Of course he didn’t physically carry her. So, the carry is in the mind. So, the mind is a factor of our lives. Something one say to me about all that one is can be summed up as everything one has thought. We live our lives in our heads. And so the state of mind is our life. Much like the old saying, looking at life with rose colored glasses. If one goes around with a smile on one’s face then the world is different than if one goes around with a frown on one’s face. It affects the quality of life.

    Before a Buddha passed away, he told the monks that they didn’t have to follow the lesser rules all the time because they were not as serious. But the monks decided to follow them anyway out of respect for his teachings. So, the monks ignored the last words of the Buddha? So the monks respected the teachings but not the teacher? It just goes to show that there are many ways to look at things. The Buddha was trying to show how to look at the truth of the world. Wisdom is seeing the truth and then doing what is needed. There is no enlightenment. Only enlightened actions.

    Sorry, I guess I was being difficult again.

    #452913
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Tommy

    Very true! It is important for me to work on that. 🩵

    Not at all. You made me smile. I appreciate when people are frank with their thoughts. It takes the guess work out of it. 😄

    Possibly they felt because he had bothered to teach it at all, it had merit? Perhaps for a monk the hardest attachment to overcome might be Buddhas own words? 🩵

    #452915
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Liked, “You made me smile”.

    When Bodhidharma went to China, the monks there were expecting a lecture on Buddhism. What they got was the lesson of doing. Bodhidharma sat inside a cave for nine years.I am not suggesting to sit in a cave for that long. Just that Zen Buddhism isn’t so much about words rather it is about practicing. Dogen said that Shikantaza and the enlightened mind is one and the same. (Of course there are those who warn against doing Shikantaza wrong). Sorry, got carried away.

    So, has your child gone to school or daycare? It is a rough time. My daughter hated it. We would sit in front of the daycare place and talk. She told me she didn’t want to go. She just wanted to stay home with me. Well, both parents worked. I just told her not to worry. Things will change in the future. It is tough to see your grumpy kid go to daycare. Things did get a little better. Preschool was better. She liked the teacher. Sorry got carried away again.

    Spend way too much time thinking about the past.

    #452984
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Tommy

    I’ve been learning about Shikantaza. I’d never heard of it before. Most of the meditation I’ve done is based around concentrating and focusing on one thing. I’m definitely cut from what I’ve seen so far. Do you have any recommendations? 🩵

    He has briefly visited with me. But not been on his own yet. He’s not due to start until after new year.

    Thank you for sharing your precious memories. You do the best you can for them and it’s not always easy. I think it shows how much your daughter loved being with you both. I’m glad to hear that it gets easier in time. 🩵

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