Home→Forums→Relationships→What if you are the toxic person?
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January 2, 2019 at 6:25 am #271983LilyParticipant
Dear anita,
happy new year! I hope it will be a good one for you.
Regarding starting a new thread, I still feel undecided…
My therapist also told me, that the relationship between a therapist and a client is different. That unlike in other relationships, her interest is to help me without her having so much of her own agenda like in other relationships. That it is a room to try out things. In general, I had a good impression of her. She seems to truly care and I also like that she tells me more of what she thinks, unlike with my former therapist, who seemed more cold or distanced.
Just during or after the last session I felt confused. Like she was not happy how the therapy is going? Maybe I should ask her about that. I see her in about a week.
In the last week I was visiting my parents. I would have rather had more time for myself and to work for my classes. Now that I’m back, it’s hard to get started again. I did something, but I feel it’s not enough. And it’s also too much stuff to do, so I feel overwhelmed and I’m disappointed in myself.
At least I managed to cut down my internet consumption a little bit. But I found other ways of procrastinating, like reading in bed after I wake up. But maybe that’s o.K., because it’s the holidays and I felt stressed before. Now I’m a little bit more relaxed.
Recently I read a book about GDR history. And the things said about the people that lived there sounded similar to the way my family communicates. After all, my parents grew up in this system. Not openly talking about things, doing things in secret… it seems familiar.
For example, it was not allowed to watch west-German television. But most people still did it. They even had a campaign to remove the antennas from the roofs, but people just hid the antennas. Do you know what I mean?
We were at a family dinner with my grandmother. My sister made the observation that in my family, we don’t really talk to another, we talk more past each other. So I also thought more about our way of communication. My sister told my grandmother, that she has found a job. It is her first real job, it is related to the field she studied, it really seems to suit her and she can now live independently of my parents. But my grandmother only asked how much she was earning and that she also has to think about the future. She also brought up my cousins, who were earning the same amount while they were still in college, working part time. No encouraging word at all. My sister is clearly making progress, so why only focus on the negative??
O.K. I’m probably rambling and I don’t know if this all makes sense. I guess I’m still trying to understand what it means myself…
But maybe it has something to do why it is so hard for me to express what I want or to openly say what I feel? My family is so strange… My sister said that she finds it depressing to go visit our parents. She is also in therapy and her therapist said, that it seems to her that my parents just didn’t know how to be parents.
Sometimes I feel just like I want to go to sleep and not wake up again. I don’t know how to improve my life. I try to make little steps, but some days it works and on others it doesn’t. But maybe this is o.K. for now.
I made some goals for the new year.
– I want to finish my studies by at least February 2020
– I want to work towards getting a job to support myself
– I want to inform myself more about how to get jobs as an illustrator
– I want to spend less time online and spend more time reading, doing sports, meeting friends, drawing
– I want to eat healthier (I eat pretty healthy, except that I eat too much sweets), exercise more, read more
The career goals seem especially hard to achieve… It was always important to me, but I’m not making much progress there. Maybe I wanted too much. Or didn’t really know what I want. And I always felt like I was not good enough. But it would be such a relieve to finally make progress there, to be more settled.
But I guess it all starts in my mind? I was thinking that my career problems are the root of the problem, the root of my lack of confidence. But now I realize, it was already there before. Even when I graduated from school (with average marks) I thought that I wouldn’t be successful, even when I was still in school I thought that. And it became a self – fulfilling prophecy….
Sorry for the long text… I feel confused… I would like to change something, but it’s not going to be easy!
January 2, 2019 at 7:42 am #271993AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
What you shared about your current therapist reads promising to me, I am hopeful about her being able to help you.
You wrote: “Just during or after the last session I felt confused. Like she was not happy how the therapy is going? Maybe I should ask her about that”- this is consistent with you believing that people in any situation, really, aren’t happy with you. Of course you should ask her about this, absolutely. This may lead to a discussion about the pattern, of you ruminating about displeasing people in all kinds of situations.
At the family dinner your sister shared with your grandmother five things: that she found a job, that is her first real job, that it is related to the field she studied, that it suits her and that she can now live independently of her parents. Your grandmother ignored all five, and brought up one thing that your sister did not mention, the pay.
Your sister didn’t hide anything from your grandmother, telling her five things. Your grandmother didn’t hear any of those things. When a child grows up like this, with this kind of interactions, it is like… not existing, is what comes to my mind.
“maybe it has something to do why it is so hard for me to express what I want or to openly say what I feel?” – when growing up we need the adults in our lives to listen to us, hear what we are saying, then repeat those things to us and then ask questions, so we can better understand what it is that we want. For example, your grandmother would have said to your sister: you really want to live independently (this is the repeat part), tell me more what living independently means for you? (the asking part).
I wonder about the secrecy you mentioned regarding your family, other than the TV example, do you have other examples that may be relevant to your current struggles?
Your new year goals read sensible to me. I hope that in this coming year, your therapist will be the capable therapist I hope she is and that you will do good work there, that you will persist through the difficulties and make progress.
Post anytime. I am interested in reading more and more from you in this new year.
anita
January 3, 2019 at 7:30 am #272107LilyParticipantDear anita,
I think K. and I just broke up. Yesterday I sent him a message, asking if we could talk. Because we rarely see each other. Because we almost never text each other. When I text him, he only replies with “how are you” and doesn’t respond much to my questions or doesn’t tell much about his life.Yesterday I looked at his facebook profile and saw that he has marked himself as “single”. I don’t know if this had been there all the time and maybe I only realized yesterday?
To me it seemed like he was not interested in me. Also when we met a few weeks ago… We watched a movie together, we started kissing and moved to the bed, but he turned the PC around so he could see the movie. Even after we finished he went straight back to watching the movie. Then when it was over, he asked if we should turn off the light. We were sleeping hugging closely and I felt close to him that night. But in the morning I felt insecure again.
We just talked on the phone. I barely could hear him, because my phone is old. Maybe I should have gotten a smartphone, to communicate better? I don’t want a smartphone because it is a big distraction… I asked him if he found it weird that we barely communicated with each other. He said that he has a lot to do and that he thought I would understand. He said he doesn’t want to hurt me anymore and asked what I suggested. I wanted to ask, if he could just write sometimes and tell me more about his life. But I don’t know if he heard me correctly, I think he just told me that he doesn’t have the time. He suggested that we break up, because he doesn’t want to continue to hurt me anymore. He said he didn’t think it would be so difficult. He also said that a relationship should be more fun and not so stressful. Apparently this call was too stressful?
I don’t know, he acted like my request to communicate more was somehow unreasonable? But I don’t think I want too much! I just want him to tell me more about his life, want to be at least a little bit of a part of his life? Just that he writes me a few sentences about his day a few times a week. Not even every day, not a whole essay or something. How long can that take? Five or ten minutes? Maybe sometimes a call and sometimes seeing him.
It doesn’t seem to me like I asked for too much! More like I asked for too little.
It appeared that he was truly upset. But over the phone, who can tell? I felt worse after the call. Asked myself: “Did I want too much?” “Did I ruin everything?” I felt more guilty. But I can’t see how this would have possibly progressed. without talking to each other, why even be in a relationship? It’s probably better to end it.
Sorry, I know you already told me that it wouldn’t work out. But I guess I didn’t want to give up. I guess I will get over it. i already didn’t have high expectations.
I also will reply to your previous post another time.
January 3, 2019 at 7:49 am #272111AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
I was surprised to read in your recent post that you and K broke up because I don’t remember thinking that you were in a relationship at all. I knew there was a casual contact here and there, but not a relationship. I know there were sexual contacts, but very little communication between the two of you. It was about two strangers meeting for some sex and company, very infrequently, as I remember it.
Do you think the two of you were more than strangers, other than the infrequent sexual get togethers?
anita
January 3, 2019 at 8:05 am #272113LilyParticipantDear anita,
it didn’t feel much like a relationship to me either. It all happened too quickly for me… He also used these terms “break up” and “relationship”. I guess I wanted a relationship, but it never really progressed into one. Maybe I just never had a real relationship, and this was the closest to a relationship for me.
I think I felt weird for exactly that reason, that we didn’t do much else together. We once went out to eat together, went for short walks… In the summer I went to his room and he to mine. We also talked about future plans, his life in his home country. He showed me music from his home, showed me a game with stones that they play there. We watched movies together, slept together. But I never got fully comfortable with him… Because of my self doubts…
I don’t know much about love, how it is to be loved or in a relationship. Even in the summer, I felt like I wasn’t truly part of his life. He never had the time. I was also too afraid to ask for more.
January 3, 2019 at 8:11 am #272115AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
“We watched movies together, slept together. But I never got fully comfortable with him”- how did the sex feel for you, I mean, if you weren’t comfortable with him, was the sex comfortable?
anita
January 3, 2019 at 10:05 am #272119LilyParticipantDear anita,
no, sex didn’t feel comfortable, I didn’t enjoy it. Enjoyed it when he held me during the night or took my hands or kissed my forehead. But I wasn’t so comfortable with the sex. It was more about pleasing him. I worried even that if I didn’t seem like I enjoyed it, he would be displeased and so I felt stressed. The last time we only had oral sex (only for him though) and I was thinking: I hope it’s over soon, I feel like a whore and I hope he comes quickly. After I returned home, I felt bad and confused. And I told him it was nice seeing him, to make him feel good I guess. But I think he didn’t buy it.
It’s better it’s over, I think. Only the call confused me. I wanted to finally have a more open and honest conversation, but I felt guilty afterwards, but is it only because I always feel guilty? He acted like it was a serious relationship and said he was sorry, that he didn’t want to hurt me, that it was his fault. I ended up writing him messages that he should not blame himself, that he shouldn’t say he’s guilty and that it was only the circumstances. Now I kind of wonder, if he only wanted to present himself as the good guy? Also acting like I had unreasonable expectations (when my expectations were very low)? His actions tell a different story than his words, I think… He almost never messages me, but when I’m with him, he takes phone calls or texts with other people. I think his argument that he doesn’t have time doesn’t make much sense. It’s not like expect lengthy phonecalls every day. I don’t know am I too wary? Or does he think I’m stupid? Maybe I’m stupid for taking this seriously, for ignoring the warning signs and my own feelings.
January 3, 2019 at 10:47 am #272125LilyParticipantI still feel confused. I don’t think he is a bad guy… Maybe I make it too easy for others to abuse or use me? Maybe my behaviour misleads others into mistreating me? That’s also what I thought about my other ex. Am I abusing him by letting him abuse me? I still get very confused when thinking about it.
I do hope that K. feels o.K. I don’t want him to think he hurt me or that he feels guilty… Do you think my question about, if he also feels weird that our communication was so sparse, was too accusing? I just wanted clarity… I didn’t want to make him feel stressed.
My encounters with men are always a mess! I know my behaviour is abnormal. At least I know one thing: I don’t want to have sex with any men again, until I know and trust them. I need to learn to trust myself more.
January 3, 2019 at 10:50 am #272129AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
You are a woman biologically and legally, but emotionally, you are a child. It is not right for you to be in a sexual relationship with anyone. You are too focused on what you believe that are doing wrong to have the mental space available to see who the man is: who is this person?
You had interactions with this K, not a relationship. You are wondering, after the breakup of a non-relationship, who was this man. You wrote: “His actions tell a different story than his words, I think..”- you are not sure. And you are not sure after the breakup of a non-relationship.
You need to be able to find out if a man is trustworthy, if his actions fit his words, before you have sex with him.
I do hope that your new therapist will help you see that you are a worthy person, a person worth no less than any other human being on the face of the planet. But until you realize that you are worthy, it is necessary in the matter of basic decency, that you do not engage in sexual activity.
Get to know a man if you want in a public place, stay away from being alone with a man anywhere, so there is no chance for sexual activity. Basically, you are a child in a woman’s body. Honor this child, keep her away from harm.
Make this new year one where you honor you, a year for you to treat yourself with respect and see to it that others do too.
anita
January 3, 2019 at 10:53 am #272131AnonymousGuest* I wrote the above post before reading your most recent post, right before mine (double posting). I am glad you arrived to the same conclusion that I did, independently of me; “I know one thing: I don’t want to have sex with any men again, until I know and trust them”.
anita
January 3, 2019 at 11:18 am #272141LilyParticipantDear anita,
no, I don’t want to make the same mistake again. I don’t want to sleep with men I barely know.
Being a child in a women’s body is not what I want to be. Maybe it is the truth. Even though I wish it wasn’t. I don’t know how to change it. Is it just about valuing myself more? I don’t know if I can learn to grow up. If I can heal.
I knew this was not a true relationship. I’m not that stupid. I knew there was something wrong. I know there is something wrong with me.
January 3, 2019 at 12:01 pm #272145AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
We all have inner critics. Most of us have overly active, aggressive inner critics. You have a particularly aggressive, persistent inner critic that in the context of interactions with people it tells you that you are doing something wrong, or that you did something wrong, every step of the way, all day long, all the time, almost all the time.
So often that when interacting with a man, you don’t get the mental space to learn who the man is. He can be the most selfish man in the world, a dishonest, even cruel man (ex., man in dormitories), and yet you will be wondering what you did wrong, and how you should not hurt his feelings.
It is as if you took ownership of ALL that is wrong or could be wrong, freeing others from any ownership to what they do wrong.
I will soon be away from the computer for about sixteen hours. Don’t despair, Lily. I had a particularly aggressive and persistent inner critic myself, almost as bad as yours. There is a way to turn the volume on it, to silence it gradually, slowly. It takes certain techniques but also insight on how it came about.
Because your inner critic probably tells you that you post too much or type the wrong things or bother me, etc., I am letting you know that your inner critic is wrong and often it makes no sense. So post anytime.
anita
January 3, 2019 at 12:17 pm #272149LilyParticipantDear anita,
thank you for your encouraging words. Hopefully I can, like you, overcome my struggles. For now, I will also get away from the computer and try to read something and sleep. I wish you a good day!
January 3, 2019 at 12:31 pm #272153AnonymousGuestYou are welcome and thank you, Lily. I hope you rest well.
anita
January 4, 2019 at 12:39 am #272191LilyParticipantDear anita,
I couldn’t sleep well. I felt so worried about him.This is why I truly am toxic! Something is very wrong with me and my problems are much bigger than I thought. It was wrong to call him, bother him, right? My intention was just to finally clear things up, but I think I hurt him. It sounded like he started crying and then he was online on facebook until now, the whole time.
He said on the phone that he didn’t want to continue hurting me, that it was all his fault. It was never my intention to make him feel guilty. Just to finally change things for the better. End this thing or improve it for the better.
Why was I unable to see that I needed to stop this much earlier? I saw signs that this was not going anywhere and that he is not interested. But somehow we continued the exchange, out of politeness? Because none of us was able to say “stop”? I even asked him: “It feels like you are not interested anymore. It would help me very much if you let me know if you still want to stay in contact with me”, after he hadn’t responded in a while. He just said, that he had been sick. But it was probably also the wrong way of asking him. It confused me, that he still wrote back to me, said on a phone call that he wanted me to visit him, that he was just busy and wasn’t not responding to me on purpose. He also said that everyone was mad at him, because he wasn’t responding to them quickly. He also was the one who initiated sex all the time. These things confused me, made me believe he still was interested. I should have seen that he was not.
I am a very sick person. Did I abuse him? I think I did. I was not able to say no, I was not able to protect myself. I let this happen and I hurt him in the process. Now he feels guilty, maybe he feels ashamed. Is what I did to him a form of sexual abuse? It is not what I wanted. He is such a good person, a person that I truly liked. I only want good things for him. I feel like I severely hurt him. I hope he is o.K. That he takes care of himself and heals.
I better don’t try to be in a relationship with someone ever again. I don’t want to hurt people! There is no way for me to live a normal life like others, be in a relationship. I am too sick.
My only hope is that he will be o.K.
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