HomeāForumsāRelationshipsāWhat if you are the toxic person?
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October 24, 2018 at 5:31 am #232911AnonymousGuest
Dear Lily:
You have a very persistent, active inner critic that is making your life very difficult. Let’s look at its contribution to your life based only on your recent two posts. I will quote from those and suggest what your inner critic is saying or said, italicized (notice the italicized is not what I am saying to you, but what your inner critic is saying to you, and none of it is true!):
“To know that it is okay that I’m only making slow progress”- you are making slow process, hurry up!
“Sadly, in real life, I don’t always tell people how I feel in such an honest way”- you are dishonest!
“I’m afraid that, if they get to see my more broken side, they will be disgusted with me and judge me”- you are broken and disgusting!
“I don’t know if it was stupid of me to reply like that”- you are stupid!
“Or was I just being too cold?”- you were too cold to him, you hurt him!
“this meeting.. it took longer. Hopefully he didn’t wait for me… Was he angry that I went to that meeting?”- you shouldn’t have gone to that meeting and make him wait, poor him, you hurt him by making him wait!
“Maybe he is disappointed”- you offered to help him but didn’t! You failed him, hurt him!
“I’m too cold… didn’t establish my boundaries and made it into an unhealthy relationship.. I wasn’t honest enough… I promised help, but now I’m not helping.. I’m not there for him enough… too mentally ill and will drag him down… I am very toxic. I’m a horrible person and will only hurt him”- you are too cold! You don’t establish boundaries! You are not honest enough! You broke your promise to help him! You are not there for him enough! You are too mentally ill and will drag him down! You are very toxic! You are a horrible person and will only hurt him!
“Under noĀ circumstances did I want to force him or manipulate him to stay with me”- you are trying to force him to stay with him, you are manipulative!
The core belief under all these messages from your inner critic is this: “You are a horrible person and will only hurt him”. With this belief and the over- activity of your inner critic, anything you say and do is something for your inner critic to comment on. You just can’t win: if you try to help him, you do it wrong, if you don’t try to help him, you are not there for him, and so on and on and on.
The way to proceed for you, at this point, based on my experience with my overactive inner critic, is to notice when you hear a comment by it, then talkĀ sense to yourself. Do it again and again.
You wrote”I also shouldn’t contact him any more, if he doesn’t reply first”- yes, I agree.
And you wrote, “He also said ‘I love you’ very quickly and wanted me to say it. But maybe this was because of sex”- yes, I think it was because of sex.
One more thing: you really want to help him, but notice, you are the one who needs help, attend to yourself, help yourself in this way: every time your inner critic tells you something hateful, as it often does, talk sense to yourself, replace the hateful message with a realistic thought, best you can.
You can make a list of the hateful messages you hear in any particular hour or few hoursĀ and your replacement thoughts and I will give you my input on your list.
anita
October 27, 2018 at 4:17 am #233627LilyParticipantDear anita,
thank you, your reply made me feel a little bit better! At the moment I’m not feeling so good about myself…
About this guy, I think he is a good guy. For example, he didn’t take my offer when I suggested that he could spend the night at my place… Or he is always respectful and kind.
I talked with my therapist about it and maybe saying “I love you” can mean different things to different people. Some say it, because they love you in that moment, others only if they are interested in a serious relationship.
She also suggested that I could message him and ask what’s going on if he isn’t replying. So that we both understand each other better. Also if he doesn’t want to see me, I think I would feel better if he lets me know that. But I don’t want to bother him… Maybe I want to ask him: “Hello, are you doing o.K.? I was thinking a lot about you, how was your week? I wanted to ask you something, as I don’t know what you’re thinking. If you don’t reply back to me, is it just because you’re busy? Do you want me to still write you then, or better wait for you until you have more time again? Or do you not want me to write to you at all anymore? If so, it would help me very much if you let me know.” Does it sound too pathetic? But I would also like some clarity and a better communication.
I think I gave up on this potential relationship, before it even started. Because it’s hard for me to imagine, that someone could like me or love me… And I was very overwhelmed and too insecure and couldn’t be just myself around him…
At the moment, I feel very bad for especially two things: 1) that I asked him if I could help him twice more, when he already said that I couldn’t help him. 2) That I offered to spend the night without meeting before. I mainly said this, to make him happy, even though I didn’t really want it and was too tired anyways. But it must seem very weird… Like I’m only interested in sex or I don’t know…. I feel ashamed of myself.
About my negative thoughts: I find it hard to track them, but here are some of them. I find it kind of hard to find replacement thoughts.
– I’m embarrassing and stupid.
You only think that you’re embarrassing and because you think that, you act weird. Just let yourself be. You are not stupid, you speak two foreign languages and have a bachelor’s degree, you can’t be that stupid.
– I’m not capable of havingĀ a good relationship.
Maybe after you learn to like yourself more, you will be capable. You have, for example, a good relationship with your best friend where you’re spending time together, but also are there for each other. That must mean that you are capable of having a good relationship.
– I am difficult.
You are trying to overcome your problems. Don’t give up. You went through a lot, so be more patient with yourself.
– I am weird.
You are not weird, only when you think like this you will act weird. And everyone makes mistakes.
– Everything I do is wrong.
You focus too much on your mistakes, but a lot of times you also do good.
– I probably hurt him.
You didn’t have any bad intentions and you’re learning. You wanted to actually do something good for him, but you forgot to take care of yourself. You’re also hurt yourself.
– I imagine how I get hurt or killed
Maybe when I think about this, I should just try to think about something else? I usually think that I can’t do this to my friends and family. My family would be destroyed then…. I don’t want to hurt anybody.
– I don’t want to exist
I could try to think about the good things in life. Maybe I could go out for a walk or to a sports class to distract myself from those thoughts.
October 27, 2018 at 5:13 am #233631AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
You are welcome.
It would be way easier for you if any person told you clearly what they want, so you don’t have to guess. True to everyone, our lives would be easier if others are clear, and tell us what they want. Or if they don’t know, that they tell us they don’t know and why they don’t know. It would be nice if people responded within a reasonable time and answer clearly and honestly.
You wrote, “If you don’t reply back to me, is it just because you’re busy? Do you want me to still write you..”- you can ask him that, and he may answer and maybe he will not answer. Let’s say he doesn’t answer. So, what do you do, Lily, if he doesn’t answer: do you wait in limbo forevermore?
What I would do is to not write him again, following his non-response. Then if he writes to me or contacts me otherwise in the future, I will ask him: why didn’t you respond to me on (that particular date)? And wait for an answer, listen to it. He better have a good reason to not having answered before, if he wants to communicate with me now. It is not okay for a person to want to communicate with me and see me whenever he wants and ignore me when he wants to.
You wrote that you are feeling badly about “that I asked him if I could help him twice more, when he already said that I couldn’t help him… I offered to spend the night… to make him happy, even though I didn’t really want it”- notice your strong, impulsive need to be of help to another and your willingness to do just about anything, including spending the night with a man, just so to help him, just so to be of service. Whenever you notice this need, pause, stop before you offer that help. And if you already did, take it back, tell the person: I am sorry I offered (this or that), I was impulsive. I take it back. Next time try to not speak before that pause.
You listed the following negative thoughts:
1. “I’m embarrassing and stupid”. Your replacement thought: “You are not stupid, you speak two foreign languages and have a bachelor degree”. My suggestion to add to your replacement thought: I am intelligent academically but not so in human relationships. IĀ have a lot to learn and I am willing to learn it.
2. “I’m not capable of having a good relationship”. Your replacement thought: “Maybe after you learn to like yourself more, you will be capable. You have.. a good relationship with your best friend..” My suggestion to add to it: I am not capable currently to have a good relationship with a man, but I can learn the skills required to interact effectively with a man, and then I will be capable.
3. “I am difficult”. I like your replacement thought: “You are trying to overcome your problems. Don’t give up. You went through a lot, so be more patient with yourself”.
4. “I am weird”. Replacement thought: “You are not weird.. And everyone makes mistakes”. I will add: once I learn skills (interpersonal skills, which by the way, you should learn in therapy), I will behave in ways that are acceptable to me.
5. “Everything I do is wrong”. I would not have “You focus too much on your mistakes” because right there is more self criticism.
6. “I probably hurt him”. Your replacement thought: “You didn’t have any bad intentions and you’re learning” – excellent!
7&8: “I imagine how I get hurt or killed… I don’t want to exist” . These are expressions of your pain. Therefore I will think to myself when feeling that much emotional pain: I am feeling pain, I am hurting. I will be kind to myself now, what can I do to make myself feel better while not hurting myself? “Maybe I could go out for a walk or to a sport class” is excellent thinking on your part.
Good job, Lily, doing this exercise, excellent! Keep at it.
anita
October 27, 2018 at 12:19 pm #233747LilyParticipantDear anita,
thank you for your feedback! I will try and stop and think better thoughts when I get these negative thoughts again.
As for this guy, I decided to write another message to him, because I wanted to at least try to clear things up. I didn’t even finish my message, when he responded. He said all is o.K. and that I don’t need to worry. He said that he was learning today and that I worry a lot. And then he left the conversation again when I tried to talk more (about everyday things).
It doesn’t seem like he is hurt very much or thinking much about me at all. I get the impression that he is not very interested in me, but still, this information helped me. That he seems to be o.K. (or maybe he doesn’t want to tell me more, but then I can’t do anything). Now I will really not write to him again unless he does. And if he wants to come for another visit, I don’t think I want him to spend the night… Maybe all this pain finally helped me to see who I don’t want to be… And I don’t want to make the same mistake again!
It will be better to focus on myself, my studies, health, friends…
October 28, 2018 at 9:07 am #233851AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
Your core belief that you hurt people is so strong that even after he told you that he is not hurt, and after you figured he seems to be okay, you still thought that he is hurt by you, but wouldn’t tell you (“or maybe he doesn’t want to tell me more”).
I do hope you focus on yourself, your studies, health, friends, just like you wrote. I don’t think you are ready for a romantic relationship, you are simply too scared to hurt the man simply by saying the wrong word, or not saying the right word… can’t have a relationship with the almost constant fear of hurting the other person. Maybe later, when you are less afraid, when you no longer believe so strongly that you are “a toxic person”.
Post again anytime.
anita
October 28, 2018 at 1:50 pm #233903LilyParticipantDear anita,
If I continued seeing him, what would happen then? It would probably become an unhealthy relationship… right? Or what did you mean?
I only know I felt overwhelmed during the last weeks… And it caused me a lot of stress, because of my insecurities. It distracted me from my studies and I wasn’t feeling good. And he doesn’t know about it (or not much).
October 28, 2018 at 2:00 pm #233905LilyParticipantBut I also think it’s because he is far away and we have problems with communication. And I don’t think it’s only my fault that the communication doesn’t work. He doesn’t show much interest, but also doesn’t end it. He doesn’t really have time for me. Or was I expecting too much? I don’t expect him to write or call me everyday… But then he also leaves during a text message conversation without saying goodbye or doesn’t tell me much about what is going on in his life.
October 29, 2018 at 6:40 am #234249AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
I agree: he does not show interest and I don’t see a point in attempting to have a relationship with a man who shows no interest. You’ve been chasing him, pursuing him. I don’t see how pursuing him can possibly benefit you.
It seems like you have been pursuing him simply because you happened to meet him, simply because he stumbled into your life, or you stumbled into his. There has to be a reason better than that!
anita
October 29, 2018 at 1:12 pm #234369LilyParticipantDear anita,
it was not for no reason! I genuinely like him. I like listening to him. It would have beenĀ nice to learn more from each other. I like hearing about his life experiences, his life in another country, his values. When he talks about his goals, it also inspires me to try harder myself…When I first met him, I wanted to becaome just friends with him…
Yes, my behaviour was stupid! I feel very ashamed of myself. I should have known better!!! I let things happen too fast and didn’t listen to my own needs… I need to get to know people very slowly. And of course it was stupid sleeping with him when I was not at all ready. It was an attempt, I was also lonely and in comparison to that other man he was so kind…
I guess I haveĀ a lot to learn when it comes to social competences!
I don’t intend on writing him anymore. I know that he is okay, that’s all I need to know.
October 29, 2018 at 1:27 pm #234375AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
You have a lotĀ to learn and so do I. There really is no end to learning and there is plenty more for me to learn. We all should relax into learning, be humble as of how much there is to know more, and gentle with ourselves for not knowing a whole lot. Somehow get to be okay with learning, with knowing more today than I did yesterday, and less than I will tomorrow.
Try to repeat to yourself when in doubt, that you do not have that power to hurt people, like you feel that you do, nor do you have the power to help people much. I too felt that I had the power to terribly hurt another on one hand, and on theĀ other, to save another. All through the years of believing this, I didn’t help myself, neither did I save myself. Or anyone else.
I still think at times, even less than an hour ago, that I hurt others. Less than an hour ago I felt that something I wrote another person (in my personal life, something I wrote regarding dinner with best intentions!) has hurt his feelings. I had to talk sense to myself. And so do you.
I will be back to the computer in about fifteen hours.
anita
October 29, 2018 at 1:36 pm #234383AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
Another thing, I just realized I was impatient with you in my post before last, the one I ended with an exclamation mark ! IĀ I apologize.
Be back in fifteen.
anita
October 29, 2018 at 1:59 pm #234387LilyParticipantDear anita,
thank you for your reply! Please also be kind and gentle with yourself. Your advice to me and others here is very valuable (to me it is). You take so much time out of your day in replying to every single thread!
I know the feeling of not finding the right words and then thinking I hurt somebody. But we have to forgive ourselves, I think, and remember, that we had good intentions. And we can’t always be perfect, nobody is… And when in doubt, we can always talk to the other person, to clarify.
It’s hard being in this place, knowing that I have so much to work on. But at least I realized more things about myself… I feel more motivated now, after this experience. For a long time, I didn’t even see the value in trying. It was like nothing mattered to me (I think that was also a big reason why my other therapy failed). But if I someday meet some awesome person again, I want to be in a better place.
There is no need to apologize, I know you have good intentions. And maybe I need to hear these things… Maybe some of what you said was right. I do like him, but I was also guided by fear and the need to behave “right” (whatever that would mean…). But I now realize that it will only lead to shame, if I let the wishes of others (or what I think they wish for) guide my actions… I hope I can become wiser in the future, but like you said, there is a lot to learn.
Please take care of yourself!
October 30, 2018 at 5:01 am #234463AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
Thank you for your good wishes for me, I appreciate it. I realized lately, as a result of communicating with you, that for the purpose of learning, we have to silence that inner critic voice. That self criticism prevents us from learning. All the years that I severely and continuously criticized myself led to zero learning.
So being gentle with myself really is necessary for the purpose of learning. As long as we listen to and obey the self critical voice, we do just that.. obey. To change, to live more functionally, we have to create and listen to a sensible, logical and kind voice.
When you hear that self critical voice, it is not only hearing a voice, or a thought, there is a feeling that accompanies that voice, a feeling of believing the voice is correct, for example, that you really hurt that man by not cancelling a plan you had for the day, it feels so real, so convincing.
The work that needs to be done to promote healing is to relax when that happens, check with the other person if possible (asking the guy, let’s say: when I didn’t cancel the plan I had so to see you, how did you feel/ what did you think about it?), and otherwise, say to yourself: I automatically feel guilty, this is one of these times. Relax. Let’s see if there is any logic to my thoughts here.
And remember, help yourself, be the receiver of all the help you offer others.
anita
November 12, 2018 at 5:52 am #236489AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
How are you?
anita
November 12, 2018 at 11:09 am #236535LilyParticipantDear anita,
sorry I didn’t reply earlier. I was busy and also I think I needed a break from analyzing my life so much.
I’m feeling better lately. For some weeks I was feeling really stressed and I think it was mainly because I wasn’t true to myself and offered something I didn’t really want. It made me think about my own behaviour a lot. I don’t want to do that again.
But at the moment it’s better. I’m drawing more, I’m drawing every day and I upload my stuff to instagram, so maybe I can connect with future clients or other artists… It’s a new form of procrastination though because I’m not working on my most important project for art school. I wanted to make a comic about my family history and myself and I got positive feedback from the professor and other students. But now I’m not sure if I really want to publish something about that and am a little stuck. But it’s better than before!
And I also did go to some sports classes and the choir again. Plus I asked the guy if he still wants to write or have contact with me. He said that the reason he didn’t write was because he was sick. Since then we are writing a little bit more.I’m trying not to worry so much about him anymore and see what happens. In any case, I think it’s better to talk to people directly instead of making up crazy fantasies in my head… I also talked with my therapist about this. She also said, like you, to better question my assumptions and see if there are other possible explanations and to check with the other person if possible.
I’m trying to help myself and I write down my goals and want to review them every week.
And how are you doing? Thank you for checking with me and for your help in this thread and the others!
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