Home→Forums→Relationships→What if you are the toxic person?
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March 17, 2019 at 11:46 am #285009
AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
I will read and reply to you in a couple of hours or so (not sure how long).
anita
March 17, 2019 at 3:28 pm #285035AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
Plans changed and I will be able to read and reply to your recent post (and anything you may add to it) when I return to the computer in about 14 hours from now.
anita
March 17, 2019 at 5:15 pm #285041
LilyParticipantDear anita,
today the same flatmate ignored me again. She was not at the meeting yesterday.I am wondering: what did I do wrong? It is possible, that I was not polite to people sometimes. At the moment I just feel stressed here at this dormitory and I don’t know how to act anymore. For example, I saw one neighbour when getting out of the train from behind. I don’t know her that well and was feeling weird and didn’t want to walk home together. So I quickly walked past her…
I guess things like that can make others uncomfortable. And because I get the feeling that people talk about me, I become more and more uncomfortable. And then I act less and less natural.
Or maybe it was because I was so nervous at the meeting and asked about the suspicions. Who knows, maybe I made myself seem guilty.
I guess all my attempts to fix things are incredibly clumsy… But I tried. And I fixed the thing with the co worker. I also faced my fears and wend to the meeting (even though it probably made things worse). And I was able to say no to K. I was able to tell him my true feelings.
It is actually progress, I think (at least I tried to face my problems), so why do I still feel so bad?
March 18, 2019 at 8:53 am #285101AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
“I went to the meeting and nobody accused me”- remember this experience. You expect people to accuse you and most often it doesn’t happen. The one who often accuses you is that voice in your brain, that “inner critic”, the mental representative of a parent or parents who did accuse you as a child.
“I was very nervous and probably made others uncomfortable”- an assumption, probably not true: you felt your own discomfort, not others’ discomfort and you assumed they felt the discomfort that you felt.
I think it is a good thing that you shared that you feel uncomfortable about being suspected as one who stole items.
“there were weird looks and someone ignored me”- you assumed that people were thinking about you and their thoughts about you brought about weird looks. They probably were not thinking about you at all, or not more than a passing thought. Maybe some had a weird look on their faces because their stomachs hurt or they needed to go to the bathroom and were holding it, or something like that.
“I don’t want to be noticed or be seen as different”- again, I don’t think people notice you anywhere close to how much you assume they are noticing you. It is that inner critic inside you who is noticing you, a whole lot of the time.
“People were friendly..”- you dismiss this evidence of people thinking well enough of you, and make unchecked assumptions about an expression on someone face meaning they think ill of you, etc.
“In school people called me ‘freak’..”- that experience stuck, understandably. But it doesn’t mean that in every social situation in the present and future people think you are a freak. You keep experiencing your childhood experience in the present, everywhere you are. I did too. Learning and better understanding made it possible for me to see the present for what it is, removing what-was from what-is.
“maybe a lot of it is in my own head!”- yes, the “inner critic”, that mental representative I mentioned, it is in your head. I have my own, every person has his/ her inner critic.
“there was only judgment” you wrote about your childhood experience. That judgment or criticism by the parent/s is the criticism taken on by their mental representative, aka inner critic.
“I had this feeling that I was responsible for everything that goes wrong.. I was the problem” in your childhood home, and you keep having the same feeling as an adult, everywhere else (“And I still feel like I am the problem everywhere”).
“It is just, that I secretly want to be in a relationship and sometimes he (K) showed me his affection”- unfortunately, the affection you experienced with him was limited, on his part, to the context of sex (before, during and after sex). You need affection beyond sex, emotional closeness otherwise.
I wish you experience a loving relationship soon enough, I do hope it will happen, but I don’t think it can happen with K.
“On the phone he said… I don’t know if someone could lie so shamelessly??”-
I do. I know: lots of people can and do lie shamelessly. As a matter of fact, lying shamelessly to a woman is part of normal courtship for many men. Not all, maybe not most, but it is the case for a lot of men. They will lie shamelessly so to satisfy their sexual needs.
He didn’t want his sister to know about you and him (“make it a secret”), maybe because his sister knows that he is seeing another woman and he doesn’t want her to know he is cheating on that other woman. Maybe.
“the same flatmate ignored me again… I am wondering: what did I do wrong?”- it is the same core belief, the same feeling you mentioned in your post before last, a belief/ feeling formed in childhood: “I had this feeling that I was responsible for everything that goes wrong… I was the problem“.
So the flatmate ignored you, probably nothing to do with your behavior, maybe she is just not a polite person and ignores lots of people. But you assumed, once again, that you are the problem.
Congratulations for fixing the problem with your co worker, for attending the meeting and for saying no to K. I am very pleased about this progress that you are making!
“It is actually progress.. so why do I still feel so bad?”-
-because you keep feeling the same that you felt as a child. Quality psychotherapy is the best place to re-visit one’s childhood and see the child that you were truly as she was, not the problem. When that happens, you will feel differently. It is a process that takes time and dedication.
anita
March 19, 2019 at 12:18 pm #285341LilyParticipantDear anita,
thank you for your long response. And how are you? Is your leg doing better?
I think I have to stop to seek validation from outside and just become o.K. with myself. Deep down I know that I am o.K., that I am honest and that I have some other good qualities. But this fear of judgement is deeply ingrained inside of me and hard to overcome.
Next time I see my therapist, I will talk to her about it. About this core belief that I have and how to overcome it. I feel like I am already making some progress. Because of talking to her and to you too.
Yesterday I asked one of my floormates that I talked to before, if there was a problem. But she said that everything was o.K. and that people liked me. I almost started to cry and felt a bit embarrassed afterwards. But it helped me to feel a little better. If there was a problem, I would prefer to talk about it. Sometimes I fear that I seem too fragile, so people won’t tell me the truth. But probably I should stop to think so much and just accept if people tell me it is o.K.
I guess they really will not think so much about me. Unless I keep asking stupid questions again. At the moment, it is better for me to spend time alone, I think. I am more relaxed then. Better work and study instead of wasting my time with worrying so much.
You are right, I need to stop making assumptions too. Not assume that people will dislike me. I think if I am just being myself, without all the fear and self doubt, it will be o.K. And I should stop taking myself so seriously. People have their own problems to worry about.
Yes, I think I am reliving my childhood experience. but I think I have begun to understand things a little bit better lately.
Just in the past months, what happened with K. just stressed me a lot and weakened me. I hope that he stops contacting me now and if he does, I have to say no to him. Even though I liked him, but in the end, I don’t really know who he is. I never was part of his everyday life and we didn’t share our problems. The only thing I can do now is learn from this experience and take things a lot lot slower next time. And listen to my own feelings and speak up more. Also be more careful and observe more how the person behaves.
Yes, I was also suspecting that he did see other women after that one phone call where I threw away my phone. I probably should have realized sooner, but I was very convinced that he was honest. And I thought that he had just lost interest in me, because I am too difficult and that he just didn’t know how to end it.
When he asked me if I saw another man, I asked him back and absolutely didn’t expect something. But he answered “not in the same way as you.” Which is a very weird answer! But then again he said that it was all in his past and that he doesn’t have the time to date other women.
If he had a girlfriend, it makes me sick that I was part of something like cheating. It is not what I believe in and I don’t want to be involved in something like this. Next time, I have to be more careful. I was very naive…
Maybe I also shouldn’t have talked to him again after he already said all of these weird things. But his sweet talk confused me. And he said that it was all in his past… And I guess I deluded myself for a few days about a possible relationship…But I guess I am just not perfect.
But at least talking to him again gave me the opportunity to assert myself more and say no to him. I was also able to explain to him why I acted the way I acted, because I wanted him to understand me better. Even if he maybe didn’t care, it made me feel a little bit better. And it was a better way to end it for me, instead of such an abrupt ending. Well, he didn’t address anything I wrote to him and wrote just a short message. Maybe because it was a bit too much, maybe because he doesn’t care.
With time, I will feel better without him. And maybe in a faraway future there will be a chance for a relationship. But right now I should try to work on myself and try to like myself.
March 19, 2019 at 1:13 pm #285343AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
Yes, you do understand yourself and others a whole lot more than before and you are making excellent progress, I am pleased to see it for myself, over time as I communicate with you here.
I do not like K, not any more than I liked the dormitory guy. You deserve so much better. You deserve an honest man, one who doesn’t use women. My goodness, you definitely don’t deserve to be used.
When we feel Wrong, we think everyone else is Right, including someone as wrong as K.
“What if you are the toxic person?” reads the title of your thread-
– well, you are not the toxic person!
I hope you examine the Wrong core belief in therapy, it is an incorrect belief, not true to who you were or who you are. Problem is we believe what we are told as children. And it is very difficult to change these early childhood core beliefs, they are imprinted well in our brains, glued, or cemented with strong feelings.
If you read and believe, for example, that there are 10,000 people in town X and later you read that according to a new census there are 15,000 people in that town and that the previous census was incorrect, a mistake- it is not difficult to correct our belief and believe in the new number. It is easy because there is no emotion that glued and cemented this belief in our brain. On the other hand, the core belief that there is something wrong with us, that we are responsible for everything that is wrong in the world, that is glued in our brain with feelings of shame and guilt and fear, so it is difficult to change these emotional beliefs.
My leg is fine, thank you, a bit of leftover tiny pain here and there, that is all. And the ice and snow here have melted, warm and sunny, like summer.
anita
March 23, 2019 at 6:25 am #285879LilyParticipantDear anita,
yes, honesty is probably the most important quality I am looking for in a possible partner or also in friends. I thought K. was honest, but maybe he was just manipulative… I am tired of him. Hope he leaves me alone now.
Yesterday I talked a little with my therapist about how to change… Hm, I am not sure if I understood and maybe I will have to ask again next time. She said something how I am used to my negative self-image and that we often try to keep everything as it is. And she gave me a book about thoughts and feelings. It seems to be good and talks about managing thoughts and feelings…
Your example makes sense. I can understand what you mean. Hopefully I will be able to change my negative feelings about myself. I think I have already started…
During the last days I felt a little bit better, but I also didn’t enter the community rooms. It just feels better for me to concentrate on myself and my studies. I also painted more and got more work done. Being alone feels more calming to me right now. So I don’t have to worry so much, what others think.
I know, it is not a real solution, more like a band aid… I can see that I absolutely overreacted when people forgot to say hello and such little things. It might mean nothing. What happened I think is this: I was feeling unhappy and insecure because of K. I withdrew myself more and more and got more nervous. After a while, people might have noticed and wondered about me. Maybe they also don’t know how to react to me because I give off such an insecure vibe…
But for now, I prefer to be just by myself. I want to be calm and not have more stress and worries…
I am glad to hear that your leg is fine. And with the sunny weather you can also go for your walks again, right? Here, it is starting to look more and more like spring. You can see plants blossoming and birds with twigs in their beaks… But it is still cool.
Hope you have a good day!
March 23, 2019 at 6:31 am #285881
TonyParticipantThings I learned:
1. Toxic relationship can get untoxic if right steps are taken.
2. If you are toxic person you can get non-toxic if you really get to it.
It’s all about really wanting.
March 23, 2019 at 9:33 am #285911AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
I’ve been walking every day for a long time now and it is still sunny, Spring where you are and where I am!
Regarding K you wrote: “Hope he leaves me alone now”- don’t give him the choice of you being left alone, you make this choice! –
– do not allow him access to you!
Yes, you are making progress and it takes a lot of time, persistence, patience and hard work to change a core belief, and it takes help, so keep seeing your therapist, as long as she is helpful and keep posting here, for as long as it is helpful to you!
anita
March 24, 2019 at 9:18 am #286057LilyParticipantDear anita,
yes, I won’t let K. back into my life again. Today I am feeling unhappy about letting myself get used by these two men. Sometimes I even wonder, if I should have reported the first one! What he did was really not o.K. It was definitely abusive in his case…
In any case, I don’t want to let something like this happen to me ever again. I think I have become clearer already about what I want and that I don’t have to please everyone. And that I should value my own feelings and wishes more. If only I would have learned that sooner. But at least I know better now…
Thank you anita, for helping me in this process of learning and for always being patient with me. It his helped me and therapy is also helping me, I feel.
Dear Tony,
thank you for your reply.
Yes, you can always work on yourself, even though it is not always easy. You can also work on your relationships, but in some cases, it’s better to walk away!
March 24, 2019 at 9:56 am #286071AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
You are welcome. I am glad you won’t let K back into your life. I understand you feeling unhappy about having allowed these men use you and I hope this unhappiness will prevent it from happening again.
K used you for his needs selfishly, taking advantage of your inability at the time to evaluate the situation correctly and act and react for your best interest, just like the dormitory guy did, in essence.
The reason I feel so strongly about this, Lily, is that I was used too, the same ways you were used. What happened to you happened to me too.
anita
March 24, 2019 at 10:18 am #286085LilyParticipantDear anita,
I am sorry that you had to go through this. To be used in this way, it hurts and it’s so confusing, it was for me at least. Hopefully we can both heal from these experiences! Did you want to share more (I was not sure from your last sentence. Of course, you don’t have to!)?
Yes, I do not want it to happen again. After the first experience, I was still very confused and didn’t understand, but now I am beginning to see clearer. At the moment I won’t be seeing any men and focus on my healing process, that is my plan.
March 24, 2019 at 10:46 am #286093AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
Like you, I was unable at the time to evaluate situations and people correctly. I thought I was hurting everyone and was afraid to hurt them more. I didn’t understand that it is okay to… displease a person who is trying to use me selfishly. I didn’t understand that. You know the experience…
Thank you for your empathy. Like I wrote to you before, you and I have a lot in common. And you are getting better, I am so glad to be a witness of this here!
anita
March 24, 2019 at 12:34 pm #286115LilyParticipantDear anita,
yes, it sounds very similar to my experience. I think we didn’t learn those things in our childhood, so we had to make those bad experiences and learn it the hard way. But the good thing is, we can seek help and get better. Best we can do is to be patient and compassionate with ourselves. You seem to have come so far on your healing path and are now able to help others. Your advice was very helpful to me. Others would have judged me. And I also judged myself the harshest (still do often, sadly).
I don’t want to give people the opportunity to take advantage of me anymore. So I want to take things a lot slower, when meeting new people.
And about hurting others: I think if we get hurt ourselves, it will not become a healthy relationship. It should be balanced, I think. Even if your partner was the nicest person in the world, it is o.K. to say no to them or say goodbye to them. In theory, I know a lot of things…
With a person who might not be trustworthy, it is even more important to establish boundaries. Because then they will not be able to take advantage of you. In my last coversations with K. I was able to set better boundaries and so things went better for me. I feel better about myself, better than I would have felt if I would have caved to his wish for him to sleep over.
My feelings do matter, I think I have learned that now. Sometimes I wanted to help people, when I didn’t really have time or was overwhelmed myself. And then I said yes to things I didn’t want to do. I tried to help, but my heart wasn’t truly in it. So in the end it became a negative experience for both people. Better only say yes when I truly feel good about something. And it’s o.K. to say no. I am hoping to live more by these resolutions, but it will probably take some time to put them into practice and I will likely make some mistakes along the way.
March 25, 2019 at 8:34 am #286217AnonymousGuestDear Lily:
“Others would have judged me”- it is not your fault any more than it was my fault that I came to believe as a child that I was worthless, of very little value. And I supposed that something of very little value, such as myself, should be grateful for any semblance of positive attention. A bit of attention, no matter the price I had to pay for it, felt… special enough. Better than the alternative loneliness.
“I feel better about myself, better than I would have felt if I would have caved to his wish for him to sleep over”-
– I will state the following in a crude way simply because it is true, and this truth is.. crude. So here it is: it is very sad whenever a girl/ woman feels special enough to be the one chosen at any one time to facilitate a man’s ejaculation.
So here is this man (or that other man) interested in a female so to ejaculate in her company, using her body, or her servicing him somehow, and so, he is nice to her. Maybe he doesn’t want to pay for the service and getting it free requires that he smiles at the young woman and say something nice or go for a walk with her beforehand, or buy her a sandwich… so he does that, get serviced and moves on.
Then later, in need again, he contacts her, or some other women, depending on what is available to him and he again says something nice, buys her a piece of cake, or not, maybe he can get serviced without buying her a piece of cake, so why bother, maybe it is enough to just smile at her, say something like: I miss you. And she melts (oh, he wants to spend time with ME, I feel so special!), so she avails herself to him, he ejaculates and moves on… till the next time.
When this happens, and the man calls you again, in need of being serviced, are you doing anything wrong when you say “No!”?
anita
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