Dear Dafne,

yes I am still here 🙂 Thank you for your kind words!

I am glad he wasn’t pushy and didn’t insist on having sex, which is what I was concerned might happen if you go to his place again. So at least he seems safe in that respect.

He is not a traditional type like me. Being just friends is not enough as there is too much attraction between us but also he is not ready to offer too much emotionally.

Sure, you don’t need to be just friends with him – after all, you want a relationship, right? The problem, as you see it too, is that he is not ready to offer an emotional connection and emotional intimacy – which you said is paramount for you. You said you don’t want to be treated like a sex object – you also want to have an emotional bond with the man you are with.

This guy told you from the get-go that he is basically only interested in a sexual relationship. He told you he had great sex with his wife, and he misses that. Well, if he only needs sex, there are women out there who provide such services. Sorry if this is rude, but yeah, this is what I think about his attitude. Why would you put yourself in a position of a sex provider for him?

I know for sure that I won’t accept another invite to his home without going out first. Also, I think it is better to not contact him first and wait.

Good! I hope you can stay strong and not be manipulated into another visit without going out on a date with him first. He promised to take you out on a date, so let’s see if he can keep his promise. And yes, I think you shouldn’t contact him first, but wait till he is willing to ask you out. If he wants to meet at his place again, I’d refuse, with the wording I suggested last time.

Tee, I’d like to ask you to advice me what would you do next? Shall I tell him that I do not want to have any intimate activities without a relationship?

Hmm… I think that he already knows your conditions, which is that you don’t want him to use you for sex only. I think he understands that already, because you told him more than once. Last time you told him again: But I explained that I want more than sex and it is too fast.

But he is nevertheless trying to manipulate you, because he sees your weakness and insecurity. You did agree to go to his place for the 2nd time. And he might think you’ll be willing to go again, and perhaps go all the way. He is probably hoping for that.

At the same time, I don’t want to scare him away with my demands too soon.

I am afraid you’re not seeing this clearly, Dafne. Demanding that he shouldn’t use you for sex only isn’t too much to ask. It’s the bare minimum if you want a relationship.

What is the best timing to say it and how to say it?

If he calls you next time and tells you he wants to meet at his place again, perhaps that’s when you could clarify things one more time. You can tell him something like: “[His name], I can’t keep seeing you if you don’t want to take me out and get to know me as a person. I need a proper relationship, I can’t be intimate with someone who only wants me for sex.”

What other question shall I ask to bring him closer emotionally?

Well, if you tell him the above (that you want a real relationship, not just sex), you’ll see how he reacts. If he is dismissive and tells you he is not ready to open up emotionally, that’s your answer. As Roberta said, you don’t need to push him to open up emotionally. Instead, you should stop pursuing him, because there is nothing he can give you. Nothing that you really need in a relationship.

Dear Dafne,

you are very welcome!

To summ up, next time he contacts me I will only accept meeting him in public (no going to his place for at least 2 more dates outside). I will find an excuse that the evening I’m busy and only day time works for now. If he doesn’t accept, I will say that I won’t be coming to his place. And that I can wait when he is ready for a more romantic relationship. We can stay friends for the moment being.

Sounds good! Let me know if he messages you again…

Actually, he doesn’t text me, only before the meeting so that might also be a sign that he doesn’t want to bond emotionally.

Yes, if he isn’t interested to check in on you throughout the week, and only texts right before he wants to pick you up, that too shows he isn’t interested to bond emotionally.

One of my friends came up with a new idea for dating. I’m curious what is your take on that. She advised not to be boyfriend/girlfriend until engagement. Basically we are connecting as friends, maybe kiss and hug (no sex with men).

Hmm… that’s a strange concept: to get engaged without being in a romantic relationship beforehand. If that’s what she meant?

I can meet with more than 1 person and get to know without giving the benefits of a relationship.

Yes, that’s dating. In the dating phase, you can meet more than one person and have that “interview” type of conversation, where you see if you are on the same page regarding what you want from the relationship, whether they want to get married eventually etc. But then once you pick your guy and start bonding emotionally and developing feelings, you can’t just remain friends till they ask you to get married. You need to have the romantic phase of the relationship, which can or doesn’t have to include sex. But what it has to include are mutual feelings and affection for each other, and prospects for a committed relationship, i.e. marriage.

So you cannot really jump from dating multiple people to getting married without choosing one particular person with whom you’ll engage in a romantic (boyfriend/girlfriend) relationship. That’s because you want to get to know the person quite well before deciding to marry them. You don’t want someone who will promise to marry you already on the second date, because that would be a big red flag.

Because those people who immediately offer marriage usually have an ulterior motive, e.g. they may want you to do the chores for them, look after their kids, take care of their sick parents etc (you were already involved with such guys, right?). Or maybe they are a conman who is after your money and wants to exploit you financially.

In any case, if someone wants to marry you only a short time after having met you, that’s a big red flag. So you need to be wary of both such guys, as well as guys who only want sex and don’t want any commitment. Both are bad news and something to stay away from.

I’m curious, Tee, what is your opinion on that? Is it a good way and more effective than being boyfriend/girlfriend first?

No, in my opinion it is not effective, if it means you skip the romantic phase and look for men who will tell you they want to marry you right after they meet you. You can’t expect such a guarantee. A guy can be interested in marriage as such, however he cannot immediately promise you anything. It’s a big deal, a big life decision, to get married, so the couple wants to get to know each other properly and know what they can expect from each other. I would date for at least a year before getting married. Anything that is rushed isn’t good.

I would like to get married and not stuck in a relationship forever.

I understand that, but as I said, you can’t marry a good, decent guy without first being in a relationship with him and getting to know him. What you should establish in the beginning is a) if he is free to marry and b) if he is interested to get married. If those 2 preconditions are met, and you like the guy, you can proceed to date and develop a relationship. And if there is mutual attraction and similar values, it will hopefully result in marriage, not too far down the line.

How does this sound?

Dear Dafne,

good to read from you too!

Skipping the romantic bit completely till marriage did sound a little bit strange to me too. I know that in some religious communities it is normal and even expected to date without any physical/romantic relationship but otherwise not sure.

Yes, arranged marriage is a concept like that, where there is no physical or emotional bonding before marriage. But that’s when someone else (your parents or a religious elder) decides whom you should marry. In Christianity and other religions too, there is a concept of “no sex before marriage.” That’s when emotional bonding is allowed and encouraged, but no sex.

So skipping the romantic part happens only in arranged marriages, and I guess that’s not what you want…

So I asked her to give me more details. She explained that the concept she is talking about is called rotational dating. And you can be romantic (kiss, hug etc. but no sex) with other people but you don’t have to.

I found the website of this dating coach, who is promoting “rotational dating” (her name is Sami Wunder). I kind of understand what she is talking about, however I personally wouldn’t be able to kiss, hold hands, go on romantic walks… with more than one person. Which is what this coach suggests.

I agree that we can date multiple people in the beginning, to filter out people who don’t share our values and only want a casual relationship. But at some point, I think the most natural and honest thing is to pick one guy and start forming that deeper bond with him. I personally wouldn’t be able to form a deeper bond with more than one person at a time.

What’s the difference to date casually and in rotation?

If I understood her well, in rotational dating you are being emotional/romantic (but no sex) with more than one person simultaneously. She recommends 2 to 3 people max – those are the guys whom you’ve screened out as suitable candidates. She recommends to date all 3 of them until one of them proposes or gives you whatever commitment you are hoping for.

But as I said, it’s not something I could do, because first, it involves emotional intimacy, kissing and holding hands with multiple people, which is unacceptable for me. And also, it’s a bit like choosing the “best bidder”, which is not love and more, but a business deal.

What do you think Tee? Does it make more sense to you now? Would this concept help me to choose wisely and heal faster?

Honestly, I don’t think it would help you. I think it might hurt you even more. What I think would help you is to do some healing related to your childhood wounds, so you could have more self-confidence and more clarity in picking the right guy.

One of my favorite coaches on youtube, Anna Runkle, also known as the Crappy Childhood Fairy, talks about how to find true love. She specializes in dating, relationships, and healing from childhood trauma. She has a video you might like: “How to heal and find real love” (enter the title in youtube and you’ll find it). Let me know what you think…

Dear Tee,

I hope you had a good weekend.
<p style=”text-align: left;”>I was trying to submit my new post but unfortunately it did not go through. So I’ll try to do it again today. I hope I did not forget anything :)</p>
Thank you for looking into this concept in more details. I can feel you and completely relate to what you said regarding the physical intimacy. I could date more than 1 man but only in a platonic way. But how long a man can wait with a kiss or holding hands? I don’t think that very long. Also they always ask if I am seeing other men.

My friend told me that the original concept comes from a lady named Rori Ray. I’ve checked her webpage and there are many women who have an anxious attachment style but found her concept helpful. There was 1 women who was romantically involved with a man that wasn’t ready for anything serious. She decided to also date 1 more man and now they are engaged. She did not tell the 1 man that she is dating around but kept her schedule busy. It might work for some people..

I’ve also checked the coach that you know and I really like how she relates to women and their fears.

I will try to learn more about it. Thank you for this great recommendation! 👍

To be honest with you I was feeling a bit sad and depressed in the past days as the last man did not contact me again. He told me that we will be going outdoors but nothing happened. I’m trying to figure out why. Maybe getting more romantic with him was a mistake and it was better to keep him as a friend till he is ready. Well, now is too late for that..

Tee, do you think I should reach out to him first?

Dating is so hard nowadays and leaves so many women heartbroken. I’m really feeling so confused with all the rules and playing games.

You are giving me the hope to carry on with my life and to see the light that the loneliness may end one day.

Thank you for listening 🌷

Big hug 🫂 🤗

Dafne

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Dear Tee,</p>
It felt really good to read your message. I understand now the concept of circular dating much better and also can see all the side effects it may have if overused. I’ll try to follow the coach you recommend me and heal my heart first.

Tee, some days I feel really bad and helpless. My best friend moved abroad and I also can’t expand my love search to other places. I have to stay in my small town and help my elderly as they are in need. I feel stuck. I’m between helping them and trying to meet someone somewhere else before is too late. It would be ideal if things would work out with that last man I met. He is local, single now and loves his parents. Unfortunately, he has some other issues now.

Tee, I know that you told me to not contact him first but I really feel like sending him the last message asking how he is doing and if he is up to meeting for that Yoga class or walk (not sure if I should suggest him a specific date and time?). And if he doesn’t answer or rejects the idea of meeting outside, I will move on and try to forget him. I’m not sure how to phrase it but would like to give it a try as he promised to do it without giving me a specific date. Last week his son was over at his place but this week might be a good moment to give it a last try.

What do you think Tee? Would you help me to create that last text (to not sound desperate but nudge him to follow his promise in a light, funny way)? How would you write it?

I would really appreciate it 🙏

Thank you for all your support dear. I don’t know what I would do without you. Your presence gave me hope for better tomorrow. I was really close to giving up on my life but thank to you a spark of light and a reason to stay is with me.

Thank you Tee 💝

Have a good night 🌛⭐️

Dafne

Dear Dafne

My best friend moved abroad and I also can’t expand my love search to other places. I have to stay in my small town and help my elderly as they are in need. I feel stuck. I’m between helping them and trying to meet someone somewhere else before is too late.  

I too live in a small place population 2000 aprox looking after now just 1 parent with dementia. So I am curious about the ” too late” for what? In what areas of your life do you feel unfulfilled?

Roberta

Dear Roberta,

I’m sorry to hear that you’re also going through the similar struggles as I am. It is not easy at all.

Are you also looking for a husband/partner?
<p style=”text-align: left;”>I feel unfulfilled in this area and it has a big impact on every woman’s life.</p>
It might be too late for example for to have healthy kids (and still be able to be there for the grandkids), too late to find eligible men (as most man at that age are divorced with kids or forever bachelors and don’t want to get married), too late as after every rejection your mental and physical health suffers, too late as woman gets older faster than man and at certain age her chances to get married drop drastically etc. I know that there are some exceptions but what are the chances that it will be us?

Staying positive is important but so is being realistic in our expectations…

Have a good night

Kind greetings 🙏

Dafne
<p style=”text-align: center;”></p>

Dear Dafne,

I am fine, thank you. I do have some health issues, but I am managing, so it’s okay.

You’ve been so helpful again! I really like your suggestions for the vision of a dream man and also the example text you created

I am happy it helped you! Have you perhaps written your own version of your “dream man”?

Tee, you were right about this last man. Unfortunately, it got even worst than I expected. I’ve sent him the text 3 days ago and till now he did not reply at all! (left me on seen).

Sorry about that, Dafne. Sadly, I knew it would most likely turn out like that. He really isn’t interested in more than sex, that’s why he is not replying.

I can’t believe it. I’m not even worth a simple reply.

Oh you are so worth it! Only he is an inconsiderate, selfish man.

All the promises written in the sand. I was so wrong about him. I thought he is suffering after his divorce and needs time. Now I can see that he has not even the smallest decency to be a man and reply.

Yeah, I think he actually doesn’t know how to say it politely that he isn’t interested in going out with you and dating you properly. That’s why it’s easier for him to stay silent. He believes you’ll figure it out from his silence that he isn’t willing to give you what you’re hoping for…

As for his promises, it was just something he said to make you come to his place. Remember he said he’s only willing to go to the exhibition with you if you first come to his place. So all those “promises” served one goal: to get you to sleep with him.

My friend suggested to give him a final call in few days to have a closure but I’m not sure if asking for reasons over the phone is a good idea? Also meeting him at his workplace might seem like too much.

I don’t think calling him is necessary. If he picks up, he’ll probably try to manipulate you once again to come to his place. You don’t need to know his reasons – what you need to know is that he isn’t willing to have a serious relationship with you. That’s all you need to know. And he was very clear about that. And yes, if you go see him at his work place, he might view it as too intrusive (and it is, in fact). So no, please don’t contact him, don’t ask for explanations, don’t seek him out. Let him go.

Also, my friend found his profile on the dating site so I guess he is busy with other women. I believe that they are more easy going & carefree than me so it makes him more interested

Yes, he is seeking women who are more willing to have casual sex with him.

He told me that he is not looking for anything serious but on the webpage it says that he is not sure yet. Might be a way to attract more women?

Yes, that’s a bait. It’s rare that a woman would want to get involved with someone who from the get-go tells her he only wants her for sex. By being vague about it, he is increasing his chances to meet someone who would give him what he wants.

Maybe the sexual compatibility is more important to him than getting to know someone as a person first. Maybe that’s how the relationships start nowadays and I was not aware of it.

I don’t think sexual compatibility is what he is interested in, unless he is into kinky stuff, which he would have indicated on his profile. He is interested in plain old sex (sorry to be so blunt about it), i.e. in a woman who is willing to give it to him. That’s all. No mystery there.

And no, relationships shouldn’t start with checking each other’s sexual compatibility, because I believe that if two people love and care for each other, sex will come naturally. In other words, there is a high probability that they will be sexually compatible. It is the personalities that need to be compatible first and foremost.

Tee, how is it that some women go easily for casual sex and it turns into a committed relationship? And women who wait with sex are ghosted in the end?

Maybe they don’t go for casual sex, but fall in love and have sex pretty early on. And if they’re lucky, it’s a good guy and things progress into a committed relationship. I think it’s not that frequent that a woman is “cool” about having casual sex and doesn’t develop feelings. There are some women like that, but they are not the majority.

As for women who wait with sex, it depends how long one wants to wait. If she wants to wait till marriage – it has to be consensual. She has to communicate it with her partner. But if she wants to wait for a few months, or whatever time she needs to properly get to know the guy – that’s not an unreasonable expectation.

I think the worst is if the woman feels pressured to have sex, even though she isn’t ready for it and doesn’t want it. If you feel pressured by the guy or modern societal “norms”, and your heart isn’t in it, you shouldn’t do it.

Is there any way to know when is the best moment to start being physical with a man (and avoid being ghosted)? Some coaches say that it is not about sex on the 1 or 2 date but the emotional attraction you created before it happened. But how is it that those women create the bond so fast?

I agree that emotional bond is important. As I said above, what happens frequently is that the woman falls in love and is eager to enter sexual relationship too. If the woman is relatively emotionally healthy and can recognize a good guy, then chances are she won’t be disappointed and things will turn out just fine.

But if the woman has issues (e.g. emotional wounds), she might be attracted to problematic guys. So she falls in love with the guy, enters a sexual relationship with him and is eager about him, believing that he is “the one”. But the guy is actually trouble and doesn’t feel the same about her. Maybe the guy is just using her, or isn’t emotionally available and cannot really give her the love she is longing for. But she is in love with him and suffering…

What I am trying to say is that a lot of times when you think that someone created an “emotional bond” very fast, it can be that this emotional bond is one-sided, where only the woman has deep feelings and hopes for a long-term, committed relationship. While the guy is not that enthusiastic at all and sees the relationship more casually. (Of course, this can be vice versa: in some cases, the guy is the one with a deeper attachment, while the woman is flaky and avoidant). Real love requires two-sided emotional bond…

It is all a big mystery to me…

Yeah, there are no hard and fast rules. The best advice I can give you is to work on your healing, so you can recognize a good, decent guy, whose goals are compatible with yours. The more you respect yourself, the less likely it is that you’d tolerate lesser treatment and men trying to take advantage of you.

I regret that I let him be more than a friend. I was hoping that it might change something between us but it didn’t.

Be satisfied with yourself that you didn’t fall for his manipulation and slept with him. You weren’t really friends either – as he wasn’t interested to get to know you as a person. So the little that happened between the two of you cannot break your heart because you wisely decided not to give yourself to this guy. You decided well!