Dear Dafne,

you’re very welcome, I’m glad I could help.

Tee, what is your general idea of dating a separated man? If I happen to meet a separated/divorced man in the future, how should I go about it? Is it ok to ask him to see the final divorce papers? If yes, after how many dates to not offend him?

Hmm… good question. I think you don’t need to necessarily ask to see the divorce papers, because as you said, it might be offensive. But rather, you pay attention to his behavior. For example, if he is never available on the weekends, it’s a red flag because it might mean he is at home with his wife and kids. Similarly, if he can only meet you during working hours, and never in the evenings. If he is secretive about some aspects of his life and tends to be unavailable for days. Or if he gets mad at you for trying to reach him outside of the “designated” hours, which he approved of.

Also, if he is still living with his wife, claiming he is “planning to move out”. If he is afraid to be seen with you in public (as the last guy), etc.

In general, if you feel something is off and he seems like hiding something, or things don’t add up. All those are signs that he is leading a double life and is trying to trick you.

Also, if he seems very emotionally attached to his (soon to be ex) wife or ex girlfriend, i.e. constantly talking about how badly she behaved, how she hurt him etc. Focusing too much on his pain in a past relationship can be a sign that he is technically free, but emotionally not – that he’s still not over his ex.

And would you advice to stay friends first with any separated man and date other men meanwhile (until his divorce is finalised)?

Yes, I guess you can be friends with a separated man – provided that he is willing to get to know you as a person, go on walks with you, go for coffee/lunch with you, go for hiking or other similar activities (if that’s what you’re both interested in). In other words, if he shows interest in you as a person, and isn’t trying to get physical immediately.

I think if you are developing a relationship with one man, and he seems genuine and you like him, I personally wouldn’t go for other dates at the same time. But that’s just me and my preferences…

In your previous post you said:

I believe in friendships before any physical contact. The problem is that men that I’ve met do not want to be friends first and try to kiss me pretty soon. I always refuse the kiss in the first weeks of meeting and it always ends there.

That’s unfortunate that men don’t really want to get to know you better, and expect sex rather early on. In what circumstances do you meet those men, if I may ask? Perhaps online?

Dear Dafne,

you’re welcome, and thank you for your kind words!

I understand now why you considered asking for divorce papers pretty soon in the relationship – because you have been fooled before! It seems this man you were in a long-term relationship with used you for taking care of his small kids and never wanted to marry you. Even if he was always available and responsive, and there were no warning signs, he wasn’t available for marriage. But you didn’t know that, since he was lying to you.

I think that in the light of this painful experience, you can actually ask for divorce papers from the guy, once you see the relationship is getting serious.

Also, what I’ve noticed is that you said “when I started to push for marriage“. Never push for marriage – I mean, if the guy isn’t willing to marry you, there’s no point in pushing. Better leave. You want someone who wants to enter marriage happily, not pressured.

For that to happen, I think you’d need to clarify certain things relatively soon in the relationship – such as what’s his view of marriage (and children, if you’d like to have children). You don’t need to talk about it immediately, but within a few months, if you see things are doing well and there is potential for a long-term relationship. Talk about your desires and expectations about the future, and see if they match what they guy wants.

Just an update: I’ve sent a text to the last guy (separated policeman that pushed for sex) to ask how he was doing and he red it but did not reply. I guess not kissing him on that 1 date was a deal broker for him or maybe there is another reason?

I am glad he didn’t reply because he realized he cannot trick you into having sex with him. So he lost interest. That was the deal breaker for him: his inability to trick you into getting what he wants. He saw you have demands, you wanted to be his friend and get to know him, and that’s not what he wanted. He only wanted sex, no strings attached. So be glad that he’s gone from your life!

Tee, what mistakes do you think I’m making with all those men? How would you react on my place?

Hm… I am thinking that you might need to be more resolute with men and set your boundaries better. For example, when the policeman came to pick you up, you told him that he should choose the destination, and when he proposed his apartment, you gave in after some convincing from his side. You didn’t like it, you made him promise he wasn’t going to force you to have sex (After a long convincing and promise that he won’t be forcing me to sleep with him, I went to his place.) But still, you gave in to a completely inappropriate demand: to go to his place for your first date.

This should be a boundary, a red line, that you’re not wiling to cross. Even if the guy is pleading, making all kinds of excuses etc, you simply say “No, I can’t go to your apartment. Let me know when you’re ready to meet in public.”

So, I think you’d need to have that inner strength and determination to refuse things that go against your wishes and where you’re not respected.

Do you feel that a lot of times in your relationships you’re suppressing your wishes or going against them, because you’re afraid to lose the guy?

Dear Dafne,

you are very welcome. Thank you so much for your kindness and appreciation!

I’m someone who believes in giving second chances but I feel that sometimes I give too much.

The problem is that I am always trying to see the good in a person and find the excuses for their behaviour. Maybe deep down I am afraid of a rejection. I suffered a lot of emotional pain in my childhood and same pain came back as I started dating men (which was really late, in my 30’s). My dadd was mostly cold and absent from my life but I never wanted to blame parents for my difficult dating experience.

Well, the thing is that our childhood experience with our parents affects us so much in every aspect of life, specially in the field of romantic relationships. If we had a cold and emotionally unavailable parent, we tend to be attracted to people who are similarly cold and unavailable, in hope to finally get the love we haven’t received as children.

Also, it could be that you found excuses for your father’s coldness and absence (that’s what we always do as children). And so now, you tend to find excuses for the poor behavior by the men you are involved with? You even feel sorry for them (I felt sorry for this last man as divorce is never easy). It’s very similar to how you as a child felt for your distant father, I assume – feeling sorry for him, finding excuses, even blaming yourself for his lack of love?

Also I could not understand why he did not want to keep in touch and see how things will progress? It was his way or no way at all.

I could understand that he did not want to meet me in public as they could accuse him of adultery etc.. and he could pay more in divorce. The thing I did not understand is why he did not park in his building’s parking but 2 streets away and had to walk all the way back?

Well, I think you couldn’t understand because you wanted to believe him. Even if his behavior was deceptive (parking his car 2 streets away from his apartment), you didn’t see it as something fishy but you just went along and trusted him. It’s not your fault – we tend to have blind spots when we have emotional wounds from childhood. That’s why we don’t see those red flags…

He told me that he needs the closness and even only a kiss would be fine for him to feel better.

He tried to manipulate you into kissing, and then from there, he would have proceeded to touching (because he said he wants cuddles)…

He got a hug instead and this was not enough for him on a first date.

Hug wasn’t good enough for him, because hug is more of a friendly gesture, and he didn’t want to be friends with you or develop any kind of emotional intimacy. He only wanted sex.

Some of the dating advices (and woman I know too) say that NOT kissing a man on a 1 date is a very bad thing and most man will not want to see you again (even if you hug him or say that it is too fast). Is that true Tee?

No, it’s not true. In fact, a lot of dating coaches view dating as an interviewing process – you see whether you are compatible, whether you share the same values and ideas about the future etc. Kissing on the first date is absolutely not a must. And if the guy breaks up with you for that, well, good riddance! You’ve dodged a bullet, as they say.

Does it apply to separated men too? And shall we always accept it and if not, how to refuse it to not hurt his feelings?

Yes, it applies to everyone. Separated men also need to go through the “interviewing” process with you. Perhaps even more than someone who was never married and doesn’t have children. Because being separated and having kids is complicated. You need to ask all sorts of questions. And perhaps yes, ask for divorce papers relatively soon in the relationship, to know where you stand.

You refuse the kiss by saying something like “My rule is no kissing on the first date.” It doesn’t matter if they get offended. You don’t owe them anything. If they start guilt tripping you, feeling sorry for themselves, or telling you how much they like you, you can calmly repeat “I am sorry if you feel disappointed, but I am not kissing on the first date.” So you just re-instate your boundary and stand by it.

I avoided dating for a very long time. I really lost my trust. So I only kept men who were willing to remain platonic. I’m guessing it was a way of protecting my heart. Then I opened it again and got painfully disappointed again. I really lost my trust.

I think your request for platonic love is your way of saying “I want to be seen as a person, not as a sex object.” You need the man to be interested in you as a person, and you miss it because the most important man in your life (your father) wasn’t interested in you. He was cold and distant. You need someone to really see you and appreciate you for who you are. Would you say that’s true?

Dear Dafne,

you’re most welcome! I am happy you found my message comforting and that you started to look at your life from a new perspective.

I’ve spent past few days by myself. For the first time I didn’t run away from my own thoughts and feelings but just sat there and let myself feel everything.

Great! I am glad that you spent time self-reflecting, feeling your feelings and staying present with them…. that in itself is so healing, Dafne!

One of my biggest challenges is to make my own decisions. I am always afraid that I will hurt a person or that I’ve said or done the wrong thing. That’s why I always ask for someone’s advice. I am afraid of rejection.

Tee, how do I brake that pattern and why there is so much fear behind any romantic decision (eg. replying a simple text message, talking on the phone or analysing my every move and regretting that I could do it better)?

When we were not loved properly, or only conditionally loved, we fear rejection. We believe it’s our fault that our parents rejected us (which is not true!), and we try everything in our power to be perfect (to say the perfect words, send the perfect text, do things perfectly…) – so we wouldn’t be rejected. I think your worrying about what you said or did is a part of that same attempt – trying to be perfect so that the person (your father) would finally love you and accept you.

You break this pattern by learning to love yourself more… We can talk about the methods how to do it, if you’d like to.

He thought of asking me for a drink but then decided not to as I am looking for something more serious. I told him that I’m also afraid of men as much as he is afraid of women but still would like to try and in the worst case we stay friends. His reply was that he thinks that I deserve someone special and that he doesn’t want to hurt me. It all seemed very honest.

Well, in the paragraph above he honestly told you his intentions: that he isn’t looking for anything serious. That’s why he didn’t reply to your text. He also told you that he doesn’t want to hurt you (by his selfishness) and that it’s better you find someone who can give you what you want. And he told you it’s not him.

He also told you he doesn’t want a relationship right now and doesn’t want to be seen with you in public:

It turns out he signed the divorce papers but doesn’t want any relationship right now and is not ready to go out.

However, you still wanted to keep communicating with him, probably hoping that he’d still want something serious, eventually, i.e. that he would change his mind, right? And so you invited him to an exhibition, to which he immediately invited you to his place. Since you said yes, he decided to try his luck again and get to you to have sex with him. So he texted you the same evening to come over to his place. He wasn’t interested in the exhibition, getting to know you etc. He tried to cut corners and get you to sleep with him – on that same night!

By the way, I am sure he wouldn’t have invited you to his place if his son was really asleep in the other room. That was a lie. Same as probably what he told you about divorce papers – this could have easily been a lie too. Because he still doesn’t want to be seen with you in public. So it could be that he is still very much married….

He was very disappointed and said that if I do not want to come to his place then he doesnt want to go to the exhibition.

Here is your proof – he is not interested in any exhibition. He only wants one thing…

I really would like to give him the chance but don’t know how. Shall I just call him and say that I will come on the weekend but earlier? At what point shall I tell him that I won’t accept the casual sex but I can accept a bit of romantic closeness (say it in the car or when I get to his place)? How far is too far?

I understand that you want to give him a chance – it’s the little girl in you who would like to believe that the man she loves (her father) will eventually love her back…. That’s why you want to give this man a chance, even if he clearly told you that he’s not interested in a relationship, that he’s not interested in anything serious and that he doesn’t want to be seen with you in public.

Dear Dafne, this man can’t give you what you want, and he told you so. He doesn’t want to get to know you and see you as a person. He is the antithesis of what you really want… But the little girl in you would want him to be the fulfillment of her dreams… Please, stop contacting this man and focus on healing yourself and your inner child – on giving her what she really needs.

I wanted to see him but my fear was stronger. And my friend advised to go another time, but bit earlier and when the son is not there. Tee, what do you think of her advice? I thought it is better when his son is there as he might be more careful.

I am glad that your fear was stronger. This man would have hurt you. It’s good that you didn’t agree to go, but it wasn’t necessary to invent an excuse (such as that your car broke down). It is absolutely acceptable to say No to an invitation to a man’s place at 9:30 pm. You would have been in the same situation as last time, only now he might have been more insisting. And I am almost sure his son (if he has one) wasn’t sleeping in the other room…

And yes, you’re right, I want a man who sees more than a sex object in me. Someone who is interested in me as a person. Maybe it takes time Maybe he can open up slowly? Is there any way to know?

It’s good that you’re clear on what you want: someone who is interested in you as a person. This man unfortunately is not like that. He is the antithesis of that. I hope you can see that now…

I hope this wasn’t too much to hear, Dafne, but this is the truth. You deserve a man who will really see you and care about you. This guy isn’t that. You deserve so much better, and you can have it too. You just need to do some healing before, so you can stand up for yourself better and not be tricked by selfish men.

Dear Dafne,

you are welcome!

This man seems to be honest with his intentions but not yet ready emotionally to move on. I’ve met some men before pretending to want a relationship when in fact they just wanted to have fun or use me for another things (eg. looking after kids, language lessons, cooking etc.)

Yes, he is honest about his intentions. However, his intention is NOT to have a serious relationship with you, not even to meet you in public, but only to meet in his apartment and have sex. He told you that openly. So even if he isn’t trying to fool you about what he wants – he is still not the man who can give you what you are looking for.

I live in a very small town where most of the people are already married, retired or interested only in casual relationships. It is why I feel that I won’t have a new chance any time soon.

You only need one decent guy, and I am sure there is one such person out there. If not in your town, then in the area. You don’t need to chase this guy, who told you openly that he is not interested in a real relationship.

Also, if I really wanted to get this man out of his shell, what would you suggest?

As I said, I understand your attraction to unavailable men because they remind you of your father. You think you’ll be able to turn this guy into the man of your dreams, even though he doesn’t show any signs of wanting to change, or wanting to change because of you.

When you refused to go to his apartment, “He was very disappointed and said that if I do not want to come to his place then he doesnt want to go to the exhibition.” This shows he is still not interested in meeting you in a public place and getting to know you – he is only interested in sex with you. Nothing changed since the day you first met.

My friend adviced me to call him and say that I want that we both compromise (if we want to keep seeing each other). She said that she can think of 3 suggestions:

Dear Dafne, he only wants to see you for sex. Is that okay with you? If not, then please don’t pursue him any more.

1. Tell him that I want to show him my favourite place for walks or taking a drink (near my appartement) and would like that he takes me there and after we can go to his place but no sex

The first part (meeting in public for a walk and talk) is good. The second part is not necessary. If you don’t want to have sex with him, why would you go to his apartment? And secondly, you shouldn’t need to bribe the guy with sex so that he would go out for a walk with you.

2. To invite him to my place for a short tea time and then trying to get him in public near my place

Again, this is bribing him with private time (where he can try to have sex with you), so that he would go out to talk to you.

3. To accept his invitation to his place (before 9.30 pm) and saying upfront that there will be no sex. If he refuses, there is no point to keep on trying.

Why would you go to his place and expect that he wouldn’t initiate sex? What do you really expect of him in such a setting? Okay, I know you expect he’d finally open up and start talking to you…. but if he really wants that, he would do that in a public place too, during a walk or a coffee together. You don’t need to be in his apartment if you want him to open up. If you go to his apartment, it will mean only one thing for him: that you’re willing to be convinced to have sex.

Tee, which of these suggestions would you advice to use? Personally, I do not feel like inviting him over is good at this stage but maybe I’m wrong.

I really need to try one more time even if it sounds desperate.

Unfortunately, none of these ideas are good. I know you feel desperate, Dafne, I know you think he is your last chance. But that’s not true at all. You can find a good guy if you stop settling for breadcrumbs thrown at you by bad guys. Honestly, I am concerned that if you keep pursuing this guy, you may get burnt. He might take advantage of you if you agree to go to his apartment again.

So my advice is: don’t try to bribe him with sex, i.e. don’t agree to meet in either his or your place – before you go out and spend time in public for at least 3 times. If he isn’t willing to spend time with you in public, he is no good.

I wish you strength in this, Dafne. Don’t sell yourself short, you are worth so much more!

Dear Dafne,

you are welcome!

My 50’s mindset doesn’t always fit well into this modern dating culture. Nowadays, the hookup culture doesn’t help women to settle down. Sex is too available and most men want an easy access, so to say. I’m a hopeless romantic but maybe too naive at the same time.

Yes, the hookup culture is widespread, but you can still stick to your values. Many women are hurt after agreeing to have casual sex, developing feelings, and then realizing that the guy doesn’t want anything serious. So I encourage you to not give up your values for some societal practice, which actually harms women… and would harm you too, no doubt about that.

At first those 3 options seemed good & innocent but you’re right they can be traps. And going to his place again and refusing sex may actually mess up with any future possibilities with him. Isn’t it?

If you go to his place with the intention to talk and get to know him better, you can do it in a public place too. I am convinced he would try to initiate sex, and if you refuse, he might get angry. I mean, I don’t want to frighten you, but what if he thinks that your coming to his place means you’re willing to have sex (even if you said No), and then starts becoming pushy and aggressive once you refuse? I don’t know… going there for the 2nd time, after he has told you his conditions (that he wants cuddles and isn’t interested in a real relationship) – seems to me like putting yourself in a potentially dangerous, or at best a very uncomfortable situation.

So I will not invite him to my place or go over to his before going out in public. Meanwhile, I will also keep my eyes open for other possibilities. I pray for a miracle to happen.

Good! Please don’t meet in private before you meet at least a few times in public.

The last time he called me (few days ago), I said that we need to postpone as it is too late now to come over. So after my refusal he expects me to call him and let him know when I will come over.

You see? He is expecting you to come to his place, and only wants to meet you under those conditions. To me, it’s a clear sign that he doesn’t want anything else but sex. He is practically demanding it (I mean, that’s his condition to keep seeing you), and is telling you to take it or leave it.

Tee, how can I apply your suggestion now about meeting in public? I’m not sure what wording can I use. I want to insist in a polite way that I’ve been thinking and decided that I’m interested only in going out for a walk or drink and for the moment won’t be coming to his place until he is ready to ask me out.

You’ve phrased it very well in the above paragraph. You can say something like: “[His name], I’ve been thinking and decided that I’m interested only in going out for a walk or drink and for the moment won’t be coming to your place. If you’re not willing to ask me out, I can’t keep seeing you.”

If he tells you “alright I’ll go out with you, but only if you come to my place”, you tell him “Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for me. I’d like to go out on dates with you, and if you don’t want that, I can’t keep seeing you.”

I’m really bad at texting or expressing myself on the phone so really need your help with that conclusive phone call (and also how many more days to wait with the call

I think it’s best if you write down what you want to say on a piece of paper, so you don’t get confused in the moment. Stay strong and focused on your own values and your worth. You don’t need to give in to a guy who doesn’t care about you and only wants you for sex.

You can call him whenever you feel ready. In a few days perhaps (say a week after your last call)?

Let me know how it went!

I am rooting for you, Dafne, wishing you strength and determination!

Hi Dafne

I feel that this man may take a long time to become emotionally available.

If you decide to keep seeing him go in with your eyes wide open with no expectations.

Allow things to grow naturally, enjoy doing things together, keep it light, do not allow yourself to be hurried into a more intimacies than you are comfortable with and do not try to manipulate/ pressurize him into being emotionally close.

Best of luck