HomeโForumsโRelationshipsโThe Phantom of Love
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Call Me Ishmael.
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August 15, 2016 at 4:34 am #112392
Inky
ParticipantHi Call Me Ishmael,
Something like this happened to me.
Reality: He was a jerk, bitter and a loser.
Fantasy held by me and a couple others: He was a kind, wise, with-it being kissed by the Divine.
The Cognitive Dissonance was unreal.
One day his mother died. Immediately after the funeral I had a dream of his Ideal Self. It was spiraling down into a whirlpool in the ocean. He was calling, “You are the only one left on the planet who knows me (his Ideal/Fantasy Self). If you stop seeing this I won’t exist!”
Now there is a jerky, bitter, older man out there and no one is left who sees/”sees” this other side.
What I’m saying is wait a couple decades. All the games and charades no one will put up with the older and less awesome she will appear.
Blessings,
Inky
August 15, 2016 at 8:38 am #112398Anonymous
GuestDear Call Me Ishmael:
Good exercise of not sending her an email or gift and instead sending this post to no one in particular.
It is interesting how the mind can hold, with equal emotional energies, two completely disparate understandings of the same events, you wrote. I am assuming that the woman you shared about, at times, felt close to you and shared that closeness and what you saw in her eyes was real affection, real vulnerability and that endeared her to you. Same person, later, away from you and in the presence of others, has other thoughts not congruent with affection for you but with anger, suspicion, distrust.
Every person is born vulnerable and loving and that part stays but injury adds layers of ongoing anger, distrust, the motivation to hurt, punish etc. and in between those layers there is a bit of that loving nature coming through.
Thing is, when you become vulnerable to a woman, better make sure she doesn’t bite you in between the kisses. Now, that is not too much to ask, is it? Many people don’t understand that it is not to much to expect from a partner- to NOT be abusive, hurtful in between the good, loving moments. To be dependably loving doesn’t mean to always feel loving; it means to act lovingly regardless of the emotion of the moment.
anita
August 15, 2016 at 8:43 am #112399Amanda
ParticipantYour post could have been about me, because it resonates on many levels (except the one about my birthday coming up soon).
I’m not telling you to get her a card or send the earrings, but know that sometimes, people genuinely don’t realize what they’re doing wrong in a relationship. Maybe it was the way she was raised, as it was with me, to never know what a healthy relationship is. Obviously lying about someone is not acceptable behavior, and we’re all responsible for our own, but falling in love can be an overwhelming thing for those who’ve never truly experienced it before. If we have trust issues to boot, it only makes us more confused.
I think you did the right thing for yourself (and maybe her) in walking away. I’m not attempting to justify her behavior, but sometimes experiencing the loss of someone is the only thing that can jerk you into the reality of what you’re doing wrong. It happened to me. While I knew him, I was listening to all the wrong people, letting their projections in, and consequently was unable to do the same with him. I wasn’t able to rise above the opinions of the people around me and express what I truly wanted after the initial “glow”. My heart, head, and body weren’t in alignment and as a result, every relationship I had suffered, including the one I cared about most.
He’s gone now, and while I don’t expect I’ll ever see him again, the loss made me realize the kind of person I wasn’t, and the kind I want to be. My life is on a completely different track, and although it’s still bittersweet, I’m more myself than ever before. But maybe it can be different with you two.
Maybe you’ll find one another again, or for the first time, someday. Even if you decide not to see her again, it’s possible to love someone from a distance.
August 15, 2016 at 9:34 am #112405Amanda
ParticipantWhat I’m trying to say above is that unless she’s told you specifically what her intentions are, you can’t be sure. I never had poor intentions when it came to the man I was into, but everything I did must have come out the wrong way. It doesn’t sound you have the highest hopes in regards to her intentions. If that’s the case, I would definitely recommend not reaching out. If, however, you think she had the best intentions, it may be in both your best interest to get some clarification. If nothing else, maybe you’ll get some much needed closure. It’s a luxury not all of us have the possibility of.
August 16, 2016 at 12:13 pm #112500Butterfly
ParticipantI could have written this myself. I hate to know that others have and are feeling the pain that I felt/feel. But selfishly I am happy as well to know that there is nothing wrong with me (per se) that I am not the only one. I dated a man off and on over the last 14 months who I FELT I loved and loved me but he took me the worst emotional roller coaster of my life through the entire thing. Burning hot and then Ice Cold….off and on… over and over. It’s been one week since I have heard from him. I am TRYING to move on with my life as I know this “relationship” is not healthy. I have been doing good with my not attempting to reach out and I have deleted him from my phone but I have this overwhelming need for closure. I am almost scared that I will never hear from him again and I will never be able to express to him how much he has hurt me. At this point I don’t even know that he cares if he did?! I am trusting in GOD that he will see me through this. Some days the pain is crippling because I thought this would be the man I would spend the rest of my life with. I don’t know what the future holds for he and I. If we will ever speak again and if I can ever even be his friend or if I should even want to. I am an good person with a huge heart. I never did anything to hurt him and I can’t wrap my brain around why he continually hurt me seemingly without any real remorse. I refuse to be a gluten for punishment and keep breaking my own heart. Please pray for me that I will stay strong and hold out for the love that I deserve. Thank and GOD bless you all who are hurting as well.
August 16, 2016 at 3:41 pm #112525Call Me Ishmael
ParticipantHi, Inky.
Thanks for your reply.
Iโm sorry that you went through that.
Even now her โless awesomeโ side is emerging. I wonโt go into detail, but it is very sad to see.
I sincerely hope that in a couple of decades she will have had twenty years of excellent therapy, with a qualified and caring therapist, and that she will be well on her way to being the truly awesome person I believe she has the potential to be.
By that time, though, our relationship will only be a distant memory and a tiny thread in the fabric of my life.
Blessings to you, too.
CMI
August 16, 2016 at 3:41 pm #112526Call Me Ishmael
ParticipantDear Anita:
Thank you for your reply.
I would certainly like to think that the closeness she and I shared was indeed real, and that she had at least some genuine affection for me. But, of course, I canโt see the world through her eyes. Without a doubt it was all real on my part. When we discussed our relationship, closeness, challenges, etc., she was at times more inclined to talk about those things in terms of the superficial rather than the substantive. I donโt doubt that she felt vulnerable, though.
After several months of getting to know each other, she began confiding her past experiences to me, and the subsequent mental issues with which she had been diagnosed because of those experiences. I chose to allow her a certain amount of latitude in her behavior in the belief that her struggles with her supposed issues deserved some leeway. (I say โsupposedโ because in my research into her behavior, I found that the behaviors she manifested where far less indicative of the things with which she told me that she had been diagnosed, and much, much more indicative of another disorder about which she never told me. I also learned that folks with that particular disorder frequently misrepresent their past, claiming most of the experiences she claimed, as a means of gaining sympathy from others and exploiting their compassion, and also to excuse their own poor behavior. I honestly donโt know what to believe.)
I am not one to court abuse, but I see in hindsight that I should not have allowed her such leeway, in spite of her issuesโwhich reminds me of the joke about the little boy who asked his mother why one dog was mounted on the rear of another dog. His mother told him that the dog on the other dogโs back had a hurt paw, and the dog in front was helping the hurt dog home. The little boy shook his head and said, โIsnโt that typical? You try to be kind to someone and they [insert coitus verb here] you.โ)
CMI
August 16, 2016 at 3:41 pm #112527Call Me Ishmael
ParticipantHi, nyres817.
Thank you for your reply.
From what she told me, the skills and priorities of her parents were not conducive to lovingly, caringly, and effectively raising children. As I mentioned to Anita, though, I donโt really know what to believe about what she said. I think the fact that she manifests the behaviors she does suggests that she may have had at least some significant deficiencies in her upbringing. As you suggest, I think she probably has never experienced a healthy relationship to know how one functions, either.
To clarify, she ended the relationship, albeit with my tacit (but full) agreement. Since abandonment was a primary element in her fear of intimacy, I did not want to be the one to leave. Nonetheless, she did me an immeasurable kindness by ending the relationship. I donโt think, however, that she felt any loss whatsoever about me being gone from her life. I know she had orbiters (people she was developing to become temporary interests), and I learned that she was seeing other people while seeing me.
I will not reach out to her, and weโve had what closure is necessary.
I am happy to hear that you are more yourself than ever before. I hope all the best for you.
CMI
August 16, 2016 at 3:42 pm #112528Call Me Ishmael
ParticipantHi, Butterfly0307.
I know the emotional pain and anxiety that go along with the push-pull cycle are terrible. Iโm sorry that you are experiencing that.
One of the things that helped me put things in perspective, and ultimately find a way to effectively deal with it, was research. The more I researched her behaviors, the more I understood what was going on and why. Once I narrowed her behaviors down to a few possibilities, I started researching what the best books were on the subjects, and then I bought the books and read them.
I also found several resources on the web that were helpful.
Most of the material I found in books and on the web, all discuss the things you mention: off and on (push-pull cycle), the lack of health in the relationship; ceasing all contact; the desire for closure and how the person with the disorder often doesnโt care at all about closure or understanding how he or she hurt the other person; the possibility (or significant lack of possibility) of being friends; and the desire to understand why someone can repeatedly hurt another apparently with no remorse.
You may find it to your benefit to research borderline personality disorder (BPD), and narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
I hope all the best for you.
CMI
August 17, 2016 at 9:46 am #112657Butterfly
ParticipantCMI,
Thank you so much for your reply. I have done ALOT of research. I actually think he has sociopathic tendencies and a bit of NPD as you mentioned. He is EXTREMELY charming and a giver (money but not time) and a provider. He was extremely sexual but not necessary in an intimate way (he refused to French kiss?) but would make eye contact during “relations”. I have done so much research I think I am done with that part. I KNOW it was him and not me (although he did try to blame a lot on me and make me think things were my fault (I was too clingy/needy etc). At this point I am trying to move on and make MYSELF better so that I would never allow anyone to treat me this way again. I just HATE the fact that I still care deeply for someone who hurt me so bad. I want to forget all about it but EVERYTHING reminds me of him. I still secretly wish he would change and we could be together and live happily ever after. I have BEGGED GOD to either remove him form my mind (LOL..I know) or completely change him and bring him back to me (I Know). It’s almost like I have Stockholm syndrome I LOVE and identify with my torturer. Can you give me any advice on my need for closure and if I should attempt it? A voicemail, a letter? I don’t feel I need a reply from him but I just need to tell him how all of this has made me feel. Again, I don’t even know if he would care but I just want him to know. Ugh….
Butterfly
August 17, 2016 at 10:04 am #112661Anonymous
GuestDear CMI:
The thing with personality disorders/ mental diagnoses is that some people think a personality disorder is like a virus a person catches or something a person was born with. But it is not so. These diagnoses are combinations of symptoms, combinations decided upon by medical doctors in meetings. The root causes are way fewer than the many resulting symptoms. I like to simplify and look at root causes.
One thing I noticed in your ex girlfriend’s behavior according to your latest posts is her lack of empathy for you. Lack of empathy for a boyfriend is a serious deficit, no matter what diagnosis it fits. Lack of empathy means she doesn’t see or care about your pain.
It doesn’t matter what diagnosis a person received, in what combination of behaviors the lack of empathy exists. When a person has no empathy for you, my goodness, where do you go from there?
anita
August 17, 2016 at 3:03 pm #112696Call Me Ishmael
ParticipantYouโre welcome, Butterfly0307.
It sounds like you really have done some good research.
The Stockholm syndrome was mentioned several times in the material I read. You might dig into that a bit more.
Regarding closure, much of what I read suggested that you write down everything you want to say, and write out all the questions you want to ask, and rant as you would like, but then donโt send it. Never send it. Stick with no contact whatsoever.
I also suggest that you might find it beneficial to make a list of what you hope to accomplish by actually engaging in communication with him regarding closure. Then ask yourself, based on your knowledge of his past behavior, if there really is any good chance that those things will be accomplished. Also consider how he might take the opportunity to derail your closure and put you back into the push-pull cycle. Weigh the chances for a positive closure, and if the risk of even greater negativity is not acceptable, then donโt do it.
Also consider the role hope plays in sending him a letter. I speculate that the chances of you (or anyone) hoping for a reply would be significant. In such a case, hope itself would prolong your pain and delay you becoming happy again. I suggest that the sooner you let hope for the relationship to die, the sooner you will be able to decompress from your pain and anxiety.
Beyond that, it is hard for me to give you advice on closure. My situation was different, and the way things ended provided all the closure necessary.
Another motif in the material I read was the benefit of therapy (with a qualified and caring therapist) for those who are recovering from experiences with BPD, NPD, and sociopathic partners. If you arenโt already seeing a therapist to help you with this, you might consider how it may benefit you and speed your healing.
If you create a new, stand-alone thread, Iโm sure the other members would have some good input and advice for you. They may not see your question here.
Stay strong. You can make it through this.
CMI
August 17, 2016 at 3:04 pm #112697Call Me Ishmael
ParticipantDear Anita:
Thank you for your thoughts.
I wholly agree with you about the root causes being fewer than the resulting symptoms. In fact, one of the things that terrified me was considering all of the known destructive ways the disorders I researched could manifest themselves in a personโs life. On top of that, many of those manifestations were issues in themselves that could manifest other destructive behaviors and consequences in the personโs life. From one or a few root causes, one could easily imagine how, without treatment etc. a whole life could be spent in self-destructive misery. A whole life of great potential could be wasted. In the most ideal sense, a whole lifetime of value to oneโs self, oneโs community, the world, and humanity could be lost.
Add to that the ways in which those destructive behaviors could negatively affect other peoplesโ lives, and duplicate/perpetuate the original root cause or causes in others, particularly children, one can see how describing it as โterrifyingโ is not as hyperbolic as one might initially think.
Regarding her empathy:
Her empathy waxed and waned depending where she was on the push-pull cycle, and how her visits with her therapist went. At times she seemed to have the ability to see things objectively, and to feel true empathy for me. But when she was on the push part of the cycle, there was very little empathy at best, and usually none at all. Before I had done the research, and better understood what she was dealing with, her periodic lack of empathy (which started out infrequent at first, but became more and more frequent the more emotionally intimate we came) was something on which I gave her leeway. I was still researching the things with which she told me she had been diagnosed, and I didnโt even clearly understand those things at the time. Therefore, to avoid exacerbating her challenges, I decided to err on the side of compassion, and attribute her lack of empathy to the fact that she was dealing with bigger things at the momentโsomething I now know that I shouldnโt have done. When I finally figured out what her behaviors were most indicative of (which was not related to the diagnoses she told me about), including her frequent lack of empathy, and that the disorder inclined her to abuse my compassion, etc., our days were already numbered.
CMI
August 17, 2016 at 6:42 pm #112699Anonymous
GuestDear CMI:
You are a deep and thorough thinker. Empathy on a consistent basis, predictably available, dependable- what a concept. Not sometimes, not only during a “pull cycle”, not only after a therapy session.
The world would have been a very different place if people experienced empathy for others on an ongoing basis.
Next girlfriend, look for consistent, reliable empathy. Look for a woman who is on your side. Not sometimes. All the time. No matter how she feels: to be on your side, act for your benefit no matter how she feels. As you do the same.
anita
August 18, 2016 at 1:29 pm #112773Call Me Ishmael
ParticipantDear Anita:
Thank you for your kind thoughts and words.
The world would indeed be a far different placeโa better placeโif there were more sustained empathy in it.
Although the movie A Beautiful Mind faux pas-ed in its portrayal of the Nash Equilibrium, as well as its portrayal of Adam Smithโs theory, I am inclined to agree with the idea that the best result comes from everyone in the group (families, friends, neighborhoods, cities, states, countries, and humanity on the whole)โand each group, as wellโdoing not only what is best for him/her/itself, but also what is good for the whole group/collection of groups/humanity.
I suggest that through the mutual application of empathy between two or more people, a group is mentally and socially formed, and from there the idea above applies from the micro to the macro. The keyword, however, is โmutual.โ Empathy, as you rightly implied, shouldnโt only be one-sided.
Thatโs also not to say that empathy is the only thing needed for a world of happy human interaction, but it is a danged good start.
In point of fact, I was not looking for a girlfriend when I met her, nor am I now. I am well at ease with not being in a relationship. (In her case, I am particularly well at ease with not being in a parasitic relationship!) I would, however, be very happy to have someone in my life, with whom I am mutually compatible, who is like the person you describe.
My relationship with her was a learning experience, as are all relationships. Although I have realistically known this all along, through my experiences with her, the idealist part of me was a bit saddened to be made fully aware that, in the end, compassion is a risk to the person extending the compassion, and perhaps to the person being shown compassionโif the compassion unwittingly enables a negative behavior, for example. On the other hand, for everyone to withhold compassion from each other would constitute a risk to โthe groupโ as well.
And then there would be far too many frowny faces in the world. ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐
Danged if we do; danged if we don’t.
CMI ๐
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