November 6, 2019 at 1:24 pm #321803
What you said makes sense, carried away or not – I like your natural input no need to filter.
Yes I agree about the contracts.
B did not say the other surgeon wanted his own empire, he said that he doesn’t have a great reputation and they parted ways as he no longer wanted to work under someone and wanted to be on his own. We heard the same from another outside colleague who knows both. The term empire is my own.
We talked to a rep – sales rep who works with B and states he is a great surgeon and seems his whole group is happy, as in all the surgeons he has hired over the years to work in collaboration with him. Not employees, but people who have a part of the practice.
With B there is more “potential” but likely also more ego in the way.
Yes there always have to be minions somewhere in there. Contracts or not – agreed.
As for me, I don’t have to work for B if we move to Newport – I have another job offer in the area entirely separate from B.
San Diego follow up questions will be answered next week, as well as a closer look at both.
Time is on our side, as well as the liberty of choice. Phew!
November 6, 2019 at 1:29 pm #321807
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by Cali Chica.
I forgot to mention – San Diego contract would be similar after a year, taking a percentage of the whole practice depending on how many surgeons etc. At the end of the day the contracts may be similar in the sense of how hard the surgeon works – he takes home, after paying overhead expensesNovember 6, 2019 at 1:47 pm #321815
Dear Cali Chica:
I very much appreciate you encouraging me to give you my “natural input no need to filter”- thank you!
“We talked to a rep- sales rep who works with B who states he is a great surgeon and seems his whole group is happy”- may be, but the sales rep, since he works with B, is his words credible, being his self interest is to continue to work with B?
“With B there is more ‘potential’ but likely also more ego in the way”- a person’s big ego can over time deflate and drain a person with a smaller ego, and even if a paycheck is better, this drainage eventually translates to less income as well as a lesser well-being otherwise.
I am not connecting with the second post at the moment, if you want to elaborate on it a bit, sometime, please do.
November 6, 2019 at 3:10 pm #321827
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by anita.
You are absolutely right about the ego aspect, something that I will keep in mind and noticed since first talking to B.
I would like to hold off on this topic For an hour, as I know that my brain will go in circles until my husband and I have more information – more INTUITION. We have set up some follow up phone calls as well as reviewing some paperwork over the next week. I Will keep you posted on any other things that come up that I would like to discuss. I feel that if I continue to speak about it now to whoever – my brain will just go in circles and flip flop, and it will end up causing a lot of rumination. Today I would like to focus on the fact that at least my husband is out of this terrible job and we can celebrate that for now! I am glad I shared that with you! Either way we are moving! We will miss New York City but there are better options out there for him out West. Also a more pleasant climate, outdoors lifestyle, and many other things that we enjoy. I look forward to that, lots of changes coming our way a lot to wrap her head around and I’m going to let the dust settle and take everything one step at a time – an important time, one to focus on keeping sane and focusing on inner circle.
Have a good evening I look forward to talking tomorrow 🙂November 6, 2019 at 3:27 pm #321831
Oh and by the way. I ALWAYS want you to speak naturally without feeling a need to filter for the sake of filter (you know what I mean). I value your honest input and opinions and have enough understanding of you to respect it 🙂November 6, 2019 at 3:39 pm #321837
Typo in first post above – I would like to hold off on the topic of which job for “now”. As in want to rest and digest about it.November 6, 2019 at 4:19 pm #321841
Dear Cali Chica:
Let the dust settle, relax best you can and celebrate your husband giving notice today. You’ve been a good wife to him through all the latest developments, helping him quit this job that caused him so much suffering- I am impressed and smiling at the thought of what a good wife you’ve been. Rest, do not ruminate, please. Celebrate somehow and then rest. Good night (soon to be Cali Chica from Cali-fornia- how exciting!)
anitaNovember 11, 2019 at 6:42 am #322469
I hope you had a good weekend.
Rest and digest, let the dust settle – many different phrases – all meaningful with context.
My husband and I did a good job relaxing this weekend – something we aren’t always “good” at as we are not used to it. But we were successful. We didn’t discuss jobs in detail, and allowed things to just be. It was nice and peaceful.
Over the next week we will do some more research and phone calls and continue to discuss.
What I said about rumination, I would like to elaborate on.
I was thinking yesterday, a peaceful Sunday – how rumination has been a large part of my life. Also the concept of – not letting something sink in, prior to jumping to the next thought/issue.
1 – beautiful proposal/engagement. Immediate anger/issues from Ursula about where engagement party will be, and “how dare my in laws be cheap and have it at their home.” No need to elaborate more – we both know how this all went
2 – let’s say I had a nice date with a nice boy – regardless of who or what he was. My mind would immediately jump to what Ursula would think of him, and then fast forward to anxiety of whether he was right for me or not. No concept of enjoying the moment or letting any of it sink in.
3- I moved to CT, and the moment I sat down in the corner, surrounded by boxes taking this new well lit space in – onto the first jobs my husband and I had after training – the phone range. It was Ursula, of course. She was calling to say: “oh I talked to our neighbor and there is a job for your husband near our house, her son works for a surgeon there, you should call.”
I didn’t know it back then, how toxic that was – well I knew it in my body and mind – feeling tense, anxious, etc. Looking back I deserved to: sit in that moment a little longer, walk to the sink, get a nice cool glass of water and tour my new lovely place. Take it all in. When my husband came upstairs after bringing up the last box, we deserved to sit in silence for a moment taking it all in .
So much of my over-talking in the past is related to dispelling this inner distress. It is like a bee that is wound up with weird energy and buzzes around all day trying to release it, buzz buzz buzz. In your ear, near your eye, buzz buzz. How irritating. Not just for the other party, but for the bee herself! How exhausting.
This weekend I did not buzz around, and for the first time I felt very happy that I didn’t have Ursula shoving her “thoughts” down my throat about this upcoming new chapter of our life. No, no one. It was and is a time for my husband and I alone. It takes time to feel comfortable “doing nothing” and letting things sink in. When it hasn’t been the natural way of my life – it will take time for it to feel natural. But I sense it already – it becoming my new norm. I do sense that. I sense deep inside what the concept of peace and stillness are – and how therapeutic they are. I sense the concept of not jumping to attend to someone else outside of my inner circle.
I sense that peace can become my new norm.November 11, 2019 at 8:20 am #322487
Dear Cali Chica;
You are making excellent progress, so pleased to read. Regarding ruminating, I want to give you a current, relevant example from my life. Try to take it in slowly because the point is Everything to our topic:
A few months ago I attended a wedding of a young beautiful woman, a Peter Pan look alike, short hair, perfect, gentle features, lean, light on her feet, in great shape. Her husband was not easy on the eyes, heavy and out of shape, clumsy and not at all handsome. Recently I received a thank you note from the couple with their wedding photo in the mail. I placed it on the table because I really like the way she looks, but the way he looks bothered me, so I thought for a moment: what if I cut him off from the photo? Next, I thought that would be rude and quite weird, so I didn’t.
Over time, the photo still on the table ,I looked at it and thought to myself: my mother (My Own Ursula, I’ll call her MOU) used to give me-and everyone- an ongoing negatively- critical commentary about people’s looks, going on and on about how ugly lots of people are. Not only did she criticize parts of people’s looks under possible control, an issue of some choosing, but what people have no control over whatsoever: facial features, height, body shape. I thought to myself: how rude that was of my mother (she called one woman, for example, a horse, to her face, because she had a long face).
I looked at the man in the wedding photo and thought to myself: if this man was kind to a child at a time of great need, that child would be looking up to this man as the most handsome man in the world forevermore. Then I thought, this man may be kind to this woman, his wife. Maybe she sees him as most handsome because he is kind to her.
I still have the photo on the table and I see him in a different way, not hard on the eyes, but easy on the heart.
When I was a child, for a variety of reasons, the “I” of who I was didn’t develop adequately, and so, the MOU remained over-developed (as she was in the very beginning), through adolescence and adulthood. So as I looked at people, MOU’s voice kept the negative criticism going and going. What happened most recently, in my example, is that I found my own voice, the “I”‘s voice. MOU’s voice said: this man is ugly, look at his.. how shameful, how inferior he is, how undeserving he is of her and on and on and on. How people look is everything and people should be ashamed for how they look! My voice said: he may be the most handsome man in the world to a child, to his wife. People shouldn’t be judged by the way they look, especially looks they have no possible control over. Looks is not everything anyway, behavior is oh, so much more important.
Look at your second example: “let’s say I had a nice date with a nice boy.. My mind would immediately jump to what Ursula would think of him”- the under-developed “I” is not strong, the over-developed Ursula has the microphone, so you hear her. Next, “fast forward to anxiety of whether he was right for me or not”- the under-developed “I” is listening to the Ursula part.
I remember you said in one of the exercises we did that your parents said you are a good listener, “listening good” I think were your words. “I” listening to Ursula.
anitaNovember 11, 2019 at 8:51 am #322493
Thank you for sharing this personal example with me. I chuckled to myself as it is uncanny the similarity of our mothers. My mother too used the word horse face, and quite often. How odd for a young girl to think of the term, as it would be in her head -from her mother! These mothers poisoning young mind with negative views – so early before they can see the world for what it is!
My mother felt adamant about her views: “oh that horse faced women how stupid.” As though she was on a microphone screaming it to a group of thousands as their leader. These were not opinions but FACTS. I am sure you can relate to this. Your mothers “opinions” being facts in her eyes, and ours too of course because this is what we heard.
I, too, have judged people this way – and especially during my years of dating. Judging them from the filter of Ursula, and then if I was asked, what was my opinion – I would have stated: well the same of course! Of course!
without a thought!
Then, I will say years later I would find myself wondering why I would do this at times, and note that it isn’t reality. I see now, years and years later that it was the over-developed Ursula. You wrote:
When I was a child, for a variety of reasons, the “I” of who I was didn’t develop adequately, and so, the MOU remained over-developed (as she was in the very beginning)
This makes great sense to me – absolutely positively. So many things I have mentioned to you over the years: guilt, going by patterns, feeling indebted, feeling stuck, attending to others, taking the opinion of others first, anger at feeling suffocated – and so – much – more!
All of this is related to that.
I smile when I think of horse face today, one particular “auntie” in our life with such a face. I hear Ursula cackling, saying how no matter what this lady achieved she is unfortunate due to a horse face. But on another whim jealous of horse face if she found some positivity in her life, as she was not deserving, due to this face – that she of course did not choose. Such ridiculousness, such animosity, such vehement speech. All poured onto her “best listener” and pupil, her daughter!
I think it is important to not judge ourselves for these first thoughts, if they are from Ursula or MOU – but instead focus on the unraveling of those thoughts – like you did in your anecdote to me today. And I would like to think things through in such a manner as well.
Thank you Anita for being proud of my progress. It feels good to think “good” – doesn’t it.
It feels nice to understand what glimpses of peace are !November 11, 2019 at 9:28 am #322505
Dear Cali Chica:
You are welcome, and I am proud of your progress!
I thought for a short moment: Ursula and MOU would get along so well together but quickly corrected myself: soon enough they’d turn against each other: look how short you are! Look how big your nose is! Look you almost have a horse face, if I pull your chin down… and so forth. I know MOU’s voice so well that- have a person stand in front of me and I can go on a lengthy critical speech about that person’s looks. I practiced it once, talking out loud, and a certain evil tone accompanied my voice (not intentionally).
“It feels good to think ‘good’- doesn’t it”- to think in ways that are true and fair to people, yes. To think about people with a touch of compassion instead of cruelty, yes.
For a long time you saw your own husband with Ursula’s (and your father’s) eyes, saying long ago that because he lacked certain qualities your parents said were important qualities, he wasn’t good enough for you. So early in your relationship with him, he had Ursula’s voice against him. But look at Ursula- she is not qualified to evaluate other anyone. It is like listening to a person from an insane asylum telling you what to think and do.
What did your father say to relatives on a visit to India, before you got married, something like: we would have married her to a better man, but she’s too old, we had to settle.
Who said that? A man who married your mother and stayed married to her while she was banging that pool service guy, calling his older daughter to.. fix the situation???
It angers me, the thought that an intelligent woman like yourself (and through no fault of your own) adopted the thinking of an unintelligent woman and her pet husband.
anitaNovember 11, 2019 at 9:42 am #322507
I agree. I was thinking about how Ursula’s opinions tainted my view of my husband. And the fact that her “opinions” were ever changing, but presented as fact – not fiction – of course. I too became a wavering unpredictable frenzy.
So much angst and negativity protected unto my husband – and for so long I searched for that remorse.
How often I posted to you, I don’t feel remorse, I don’t feel as bad as I think I should, etc.
And then it occurred to me, recently – it is because that was never ME.
It was my being possessed by Ursula’s voice, and so in many ways I did not even feel it was me! It felt unbelievable at times the things I said, similar to how you adopted that cruel tone in your voice unintentionally – it was second nature for us to speak in such ways often – mirroring our own Ursulas.
So now when I look back to those times, it is not that I don’t take ownership – I do. It is more that I know better now, and then I did not. I am aware now, then I was not. I can find my own voice now, then it was suffocated.
It isn’t about feeling remorse, or being consumed by guilt – it is freeing that inner voice. It is looking back at old CC and not being disgusted, but having tenderness for a person who did not know any better. A person taken over by a virus, just like I was with influenza a few weeks ago – unable to function to max capacity due to this virulence.
It is important to let the glimpses of peace and freedom of life nowadays sink in for me. As that is what it is all about – it is the real thing as you would say.November 11, 2019 at 9:59 am #322511
Dear Cali Chica:
When long, long ago I watched the classic movie Psycho, the original, that is, I knew it almost accurately described my situation- the main character was possessed by his mother, put on her clothes and did her bidding, killing the young woman he felt attraction to.
“It was my being possessed by Ursula’s voice”- in the movie, Anthony Perkins was possessed by his mother’s voice, speaking it, he too “adopted that cruel tone”, and then doing what her voice suggested.
We have to be careful not to repeat her words, her tone, and not do her bidding at any one time.
anitaNovember 11, 2019 at 10:01 am #322513
I am in utter awe. That is one of my favorite movies, and isn’t it ironic – Ursula’s too.
Years later when I re-watched it I found eery similarities, and this was before tiny buddha and my awareness of it all, but deep down inside I knew…
Wow – just wow – the similarities just continue – glad to share and speak as we always do.
I am going to be away from the computer now until tomorrow. Have a great rest of your day and I am sure we will have some more great conversations coming up.
Be well my friend!November 11, 2019 at 10:04 am #322515
by the way – “do her bidding” I like this term, and how you phrased it. Yes you are right, we must be careful – we must