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On Purpise and Shame- what is my purpose? What is yours?

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  • #456465
    anita
    Participant

    My purpose has been for many years, and increasingly so, to learn: to become aware of what I wasn’t aware of before.

    And much of what I wasn’t aware of before was.. me: who or what am I, and how do I interact with others.

    I thought I was a terrible person and a mistake, a shameful mistake. I thought everyone can see it and it’s only a matter of time before I’ll be called out on being inferior and deserving of shame and guilt.

    A big part of my shame has been these tics, motor and vocal (Tourette’s), making me feel like a freak.

    My mother suggested that she was a good mother because she didn’t make fun of my tics. And I appreciate it- it was her way of being a good mother and a good person. Thank you!

    On the other hand, or at the same time, she bombarded me with suicidal and homicidal threats that.. well, terrorized me, feeding my tics, feeding my anxiety, leading me to dissociate so much that I didn’t really live a life. I just existed, spaced out, inattentive, anxious a lot. 6 DECADES of that.

    So, recently, and much of it done here, on tiny buddha, I am becoming aware of who I am: not inferior, not shameful, not a freak- but human, simply or complicated.. but still, human.

    I am becoming less and less shame- based and more and more confident- not because I am perfect or ever will be, but because I am learning.

    What if this is what counters shame, just that: learning, becoming more and more AWARE and AWAKE.

    If you’re reading this, please feel free to post here about your experience, or your thoughts about mine.

    🤍 🍃 Anita

    #456466
    anita
    Participant

    * On purpose

    #456492
    Peter
    Participant

    Anita, I’ve found myself with little to say lately, and I’m still not sure I have anything new to offer on the idea of ‘purpose.’ For me, that construct was always so wrapped up in religion where that it actually became its own source of shame.

    Yet, seeing the way you’ve used awareness to dismantle your own shame is incredibly powerful. It makes me wonder if as you suggest the real ‘antidote’ isn’t finding a grand meaning, but simply the act of waking up to who we actually are, beyond the labels and the terror.

    Jung, Campbell, and Krishnamurti have been big influences on my own thoughts regarding purpose, so I decided to see what they might ‘say’ to your story using AI. I found the results fascinating, though keep in mind the AI was definitely mirroring my own biases back to me!

    A rare gathering of minds, Imagine them sitting in a sun-drenched garden discussing the “Purpose” you have just begun to claim.

    Jung: (Leaning forward, eyes piercing) Purpose is not a destination, but the process of Individuation. For decades, Anita, your “purpose” was forced upon you by the psychic weight of your mother’s terror—a false purpose of survival. But now, as you become “aware of what you weren’t aware of before,” you are reclaiming the gold from the shadow. Your tics were the body’s protest against a stolen life. Your true purpose now is to allow the Self to finally speak, to integrate that “freakishness” into the wholeness of being human.

    Campbell: (With a warm, knowing smile) Exactly, Carl. She has spent sixty years in the “Abyss,” that stage of the Hero’s Journey where the self is tested by fire. Her mother was the threshold guardian who used terror to keep her from the journey. But look at her words: “not inferior, not shameful… but human.” That is the “Boon.” The purpose of her life wasn’t to be “perfect,” but to experience the rapture of being alive. The shame was the dragon; the awareness is the sword. She is finally walking her own path, the “Left-hand Path” of the individual who breaks from the tribe’s false morality.

    Krishnamurti: (Softly, with an intense stillness) But we must be careful with these words “purpose,” “path,” “journey.” If you have a purpose, you have a goal, and where there is a goal, there is the effort of the “me” to become something it is not. Anita says she is “learning,” but is she accumulating knowledge about herself, or is she observing herself? Shame exists only because she put herself on a pedestal of “ideals” – of what a daughter or a “normal” person should be. When the pedestal is gone, when she is just “what is,” shame has no place to stand.

    Jung: (Nodding) But Jiddu, to face “what is” requires the ego to first recognize its own conditioning. She is doing that. She is seeing the “tics” not as a flaw, but as a symptom of a deeper, trauma she carried.

    Krishnamurti: Yes, but the “learning” she speaks of becoming – “AWARE and AWAKE” — that is the key. Real awareness is “choiceless”. It is not “I am better now because I am confident.” It is the silent observation of the anxiety, the tics, the history, without judgment. In that observation, the “me” that was a “shameful mistake” simply dissolves. There is no “purpose” in life other than the act of living itself, free from the past.

    Campbell: (Laughing gently) And that, Anita, is the ultimate “boon.” To realize that the sixty years of “just existing” were the preparation for this moment of “waking up.” Your purpose isn’t to fix the past, but to be the one who finally sees it clearly. As you said, awareness is the counter to shame. You are no longer the “mistake”; you are the witness.

    Alan Watts: (Stepping in with a wide, mischievous grin, leaning against a garden post) Oh, but let’s not get too heavy with the “myths” and “shadows,” shall we? Anita, Don’t worry about being ‘perfect’ or even ‘better.’ Just realize that you are It. You are the works! The universe isn’t looking for a “corrected” version of you; it’s just delighted to finally see you looking back.

    #456494
    Alessa
    Participant

    Dear Anita

    I’m glad to hear that you are becoming less shame based and feel more confident. 😊

    I don’t think anyone should get a pat on the back after they traumatised you so badly you develop tics. 🤍

    My thoughts about your experiences and your journey. I guess I see it as an unlearning. Trauma can teach us to do things that we don’t really want to do. You get closer every day to what you want to do and leave further and further behind what you were taught to do. I feel like you have always been the same good person. I think it’s easy for people not to see their own goodness when they are suffering. 🤍

    I’m still learning too. I’m not the most socially aware person. I want to work on developing a sense of safety and viewing the world through a less negative lens. I want to be able to help my son through any difficulties he may experience as he grows up. I want him to be able to overcome difficulties.

    #456495
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    I’m fascinated, as always, by your creative use of AI. 🩵

    #456502
    anita
    Participant

    I am thrilled to get your replies, Peter and Alessa🙏🙏 I’ll reply by tomorrow.

    #456529
    anita
    Participant

    Good morning, Peter:

    It’s interesting that you said you’re not sure you have anything new to say about the idea of Purpose because your very first post on tiny buddha, May 27, 2016, almost a decade ago, was about purpose.

    It was in response to a thread titled: “What is my purpose?” or, “Do I need a purpose?” (I am using my 📱 so I can’t check).

    There you expressed frustration with the purpose-driven mentality (I am paraphrasing from memory) where purpose is thought of as something objective (outside ourselves), measurable, and grand, positively exciting all the time,

    While you (and Cambell whom you quoted there) think of it as something that’s subjective (inside ourselves), quiet and immeasurable.

    Back to your yesterday’s post, you mention again the “grand meaning” of the objective, measurable type of purpose vs the quiet, subjective meaning of “wakingup to who we actually are, beyond the labels and the terror” (beautifully said!)

    Yes, this very much resonates. It makes me smile in a combo of youth nostalgia and pity for my younger self, to remember my dreams of grand purpose: to be rich and famous, and in so being, deserving of being valued.

    Fast forward, being valued by my own self ( a new and beginning experience for me), really is subjective, an internal experience that’s not at all measurable by objective achievements. It’s like a shortcut to valuing myself, a shortcut that took half a century to stumble into.

    I can almost see Jung leaning forward with piercing 👀- thank you, Jung. “To allow the Self to finally speak”- yes, this is why I post SO MUCH on tb. I was silent for too long that to speak in a public forum is intoxicating, the idea (and sometimes fact) that I am actually heard.

    Yes, the freakishness loses its sharp edges when it’s integrated into the human, meaning, there’s no freak out there (the dissociated, separated me), threatening.

    This is fascinating, Peter, thank you for gathering these famous people together to discuss.. me 🙂

    I’ll continue later.

    🍃 🤍 Anita

    #456530
    anita
    Participant

    Continued:

    Campbell spelling out my age, ouch. I don’t like it reflected back to me 😕. Shame- the dragon, awareness- the sword. A violent metaphor delivered with a warm, knowing smile.

    Krishnamurti.. “a pedestal of ‘ideas’- of what a daughter or a ‘normal’ person should be”-

    What an original way of saying it, pedestal-of ideas, worshipping ideas, never one with them. Never a good daughter. Never a good person.

    Shame has nowhere to stand when the pedestal (the should- but isn’t so) is removed.

    (I feel positively important to be talked about among this group of people. Thank you for gathering the 3, just 4 me 🙂)

    Jung: shoulds= conditioning.

    Krish: learning= aware & awake, the silent observation, which reminds me. Peter. I made it a daily practice since we talked last, to Notice instead of try to Solve- Remove physical tension. And every time I just Notice, the tension eases in that moment 🙏`

    Next, Campbell again mentions my age, for crying out loud!

    Not to fix the past, but to see it clearly. There’s a lot here. I want to develop this further later (not so to fix the past..)

    “You are no longer the ‘mistake’, you are the witness”- this is deep.

    Oh, Alan Watts, thank you for stopping by! Your light heartedness is much appreciated!

    Of course, I am looking forward to using my 🖥 and asking Copilot for his input.

    What a refreshing, unique exercise, Peter 🙏

    🍃 🤍 Anita

    #456531
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Alessa:

    Thank you for standing up for me, saying she should not get a pat on the back (for not making fun of me in regard to the tics). It made me feel special that you did 🙏

    It’s a good thing that I’m able to show gratitude for that part, as well as for her gifts and whatever affection she threw my way. It means that now, I am less threatened by (the idea of) her.

    Don’t get me wrong though, she was horrible, real bad news in my life. I’m just glad that I can tolerate a bit of nuance in regard to her.

    My goodness, what a special way of saying it: it’s easy for people not to see their own goodness when they’re sufferring.

    I wish you didn’t suffer, Alessa!

    You are a good, loving and caring person and mother.

    I am fortunate to have you in my life 🙏🤍🙏

    🍃 🤍 Anita

    #456533
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Anita it does indeed seem that coming to terms and healing notion of purpose and meaning as been taken some work. As Jung might say taken some time to integrate in a way the question and construct dissolves.
    I notice in the AI responses that each touched on notions I’ve discussed in my own ways before. I can’t be certain AI wasn’t just mirroring that back. I ended with Watts because he always remembered to laugh and the ‘hide and seek’ we play with ourselves…

    #456543
    anita
    Participant

    Hey Peter:

    On purpise, ha-ha.

    I didn’t get a chance to bring Copilot back to the conversation, so I have to use my own inferior intelligence.

    Copilot did introduce a new (to me) term: existential shame, which means shame for existing, a supposed step up in shame severity from “toxic shame”. “Healthy shame” is the non- pathological shame.

    You mentioned shame in regard to the experience of religion that you grew up with, religious- shame, I suppose.

    As I’ve been typing this, I am hearing The News Hour about a book called “Shame has to change sides”- hmm…

    🍃 Anita

    #456568
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Anita, I’ve been pondering that experience of religion and undeserved shame, which brought up one of my earliest memories: being given a small book as a child about the Parable of the Talents.

    It’s fascinating how metaphors can sometimes “live us” before we are even conscious of them. Even then, I felt a deep, instinctive anxiety. I looked at the world and saw that “talents” – beauty, athleticism, intellect – weren’t distributed equally. To my young mind, the story felt mean; it felt like a high-stakes performance review where the “haves” get more and the “have-nots” are punished for being afraid. I realized I was siding with the third servant, not out of laziness, but because I understood his terror of a “harsh master” who demands a return on an investment he didn’t provide.

    I didn’t see a story of reward; I saw a story of injustice. Without being fully conscious of it, that story became the “software” for my shame: If you are afraid, if you aren’t producing, you are “not enough,” you are a mistake.

    For years, that metaphor lived in my basement, linking “purpose” to “productivity” and “shame” to “imperfection.” But as we’ve been discussing, perhaps the third servant wasn’t a failure of character, but a victim of a toxic image of the Divine. He couldn’t invest because he was paralyzed by the fear of being “not enough.”

    Anita, what you’re doing with “awareness” is essentially debugging that old software. You’re seeing that the “harsh master” was just a projection of trauma, much like the terror you experienced from your mother. Richard Rohr suggests that the third servant’s only real “sin” (which literally means “missing the mark”) was his distorted image of the ‘master’. Once we dismantle that “Mean Judge” in our heads, “purpose” stops being a terrifying quota we have to meet and starts being, as Joseph Campbell put it, the simple “rapture of being alive.”

    #456569
    Peter
    Participant

    I just realized something as I re-read my own post: even in my attempt to ‘debug’ that old software, the story’s influence was still pulling the strings.

    By suggesting that dismantling the ‘Mean Judge’ is our work, I was accidentally putting the burden back on the third servant, as if he’s now failing at ‘being aware’ instead of failing at ‘investing.’

    I want to clarify one thing, because I realize my last post could be read as if the ‘Harsh Master’ wasn’t real. In the context of your story, that harshness was real. Your mother’s terror and the pressure you felt weren’t projections; they were your objective environment of being. Similarly my experience on how the Parable of the Talents was taught and is still being thought happened…

    When I talk about ‘debugging the software,’ I don’t mean the trauma didn’t happen. I mean that the conclusion the trauma forced on us to draw, that we were ‘shameful’ or ‘a mistake’ is the part that isn’t true.

    In Rohr’s view, the third servant’s tragedy is that he took the harshness of the world and assumed that was the nature of the Divine, too. The ‘awareness’ isn’t about pretending the past wasn’t hard; it’s the incredible moment of realizing that although you were treated as a ‘project’ or a ‘disappointment’ for sixty years, that was never your actual identity. You were always ‘the works’..

    #456572
    anita
    Participant

    Hey Peter:

    Thank you for caring to clarify (3rd & 4th paragraphs right above). That is kind of you 🤍

    I just used the 🖥 to look up the parable and back to my 📱 (hence the emojis showing up, can’t or won’t resist them 😊, and then add some. Hope you don’t mind?)

    The parable was a 🎁 of anxiety and shame by impact, if not by intent for the intelligent, highly perceptive young Peter.

    I wish there was someone back then, a caring perceptive adult, who’d motice how you felt, and maybe offer you a different parable, one of justice and kindness-

    because the literal story portrays injustice and an unempathetc, punishing, cruel master. And children take things literally. I still do 😕

    By the way, as I read the story, I thought that the third sevant didn’t double his talent because 2× 1 is still 1. I thought he was methamatically aware (my literal interpretation)

    I’ll write more later.

    🎁 😕 🥺 Anita

    #456573
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Peter:

    You wrote that you sided with the 3rd servant because you understood “his terror of a ‘harsh master’ who demands a return of an investment he didn’t provide”-

    An image of a scared young Peter comes to mind, day in and day out. Oh, how I wish I could reach him back then, calm his anxiety and give him the chance, the opportunity, to be a care-free child.

    The image of you and I running on green grass in open fields just came back to me: two children running, not away from, but toward something- the call of the wild, a call available only to the carefree.

    “The conclusion the trauma forced on us to draw, that we were ‘shameful’ or ‘a mistake’ is the part that isn’t true”-

    I read this part attentively just now, for the first time since you wrote it, and what stands out most is your use of the pronoun “us”, as in you and me. Feels special.

    I don’t remember ever using “us” growing up (growing inwards, really). The sense of an chronically isolated “I” was profound, unnatural for a social animal such as human.

    And about return of investment: no such expectation here. At this point, I appreciate you more than ever and this appreciation is non-reversible.

    🍃🤍🏃‍♀️🏃‍♂️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♂️🏃‍♀️ Anita

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