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Intrusive and Anxious Thoughts

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  • #431524
    anita
    Participant

    Re-submitted:

    Dear Kshiti:

    You are welcome!

    ā€œWhat scares me is how I visualise myself while imagining what if situations, how I imagine myself weeping in a closed room shutting myself from everything else, with no desire to do anything for self care or for taking myself out of that situationā€“ what you are describing here is depression andĀ helplessness- the feeling that you are unable to help yourself, giving up on trying.

    I mentionedĀ helplessnessĀ to you back on page 1 of your thread, but I donā€™t think that I brought up the topic ofĀ learned helplessness.

    very well mind/ learned helplessness: ā€œLearned helplessness occurs when a person who has experienced repeated challenges comes to believe they have no control over their situation. They then give up trying to make changes and accept their fate. In animals, learned helplessness occurs when an animal is repeatedly subjected to an aversive stimulus that it cannot escape. Eventually, the animal will stop trying to avoid the stimulus and behave as if it is utterly helpless to change the situation. Even when opportunities to escape are presented, this learned helplessness will prevent any actionā€¦

    ā€When people feel that they have no control over their situation, they may begin to behave in a helpless manner. This inaction can lead people to overlook opportunities for relief or changeā€¦ People may be left feeling that no matter what they do or how hard they work, nothing will make a differenceā€¦

    ā€Learned helplessness often originates in childhood, and unreliable or unresponsive caregivers can contribute to these feelingsā€¦ When children need help but no one comes to their aid, they may be left feeling that nothing they do will change their situation. Repeated experiences that bolster these feelings of helplessness and hopelessness can result in growing into adulthood ultimately feeling that there is nothing one can do to change his or her problems. Some common symptoms of learned helplessness in children include: Failure to ask for help, Frustration, Giving up, Lack of effort, Low self-esteem, Passivity, Poor motivation, Procrastination.

    ā€Learned helplessness can also result in anxiety, depression, or both.11Ā When kids feel that theyā€™ve had no control over the past events of their lives, they gain the expectation that future events will be just as uncontrollable. Because they believe that nothing they do will ever change the outcome of an event, kids are often left thinking that they should not even bother tryingā€¦ā€.</p>
    Learned helplessness is evident in wat you shared back in Feb: ā€œI get flashbacks of what I felt during that time, some examples are ā€“Ā ā€˜nothing ever gets betterā€™ ā€˜there is no point of looking for my wellbeingā€™ā€¦Ā  I began feeling thatĀ just when things started to become better, they went for worseā€¦ I began to think thatĀ itā€™s pointless to keep hopesĀ as all I got was traumatic setbacks again and againā€¦ I felt thatĀ no matter how much I tried, things would always get worseā€.What do you think about this, Kshiti?

    anita

    #431533
    kshiti1502
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I find this very accurate to my thoughts about the situation. But I am not able to get why I am imagining myself in such depressing scenarios now? Whenever i begin to ruminate, I ultimately end up thinking how I would have got hopeless and stopped trying to make things better for myself.

    Secondly, I sometimes feel as if ruminating itself is a self destructive activity which I partake and maybe one of the reasons I imagine giving up on my own wellbeing is a lack of self compassion. Please guide.

     

    #431535
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Kshiti:

    I am not able to get why I am imagining myself in such depressing scenarios now?… I sometimes feel as if ruminating itself is a self destructive activity which I partake and maybe one of the reasons I imagine giving up on my own wellbeing is a lack of self compassion. Please guide.“-

    – I just re-read our previous communication and we never talked about your living situation. I wonder if you are living with your parents, and I wonder as to the nature of your relationship with them past and present. I wonder, because learned helplessness often takes place in childhood because of parents/ caregivers not being there for the child, emotionally or physically.

    When parents do not regularly/ repeatedly express compassion for the child, the child does not practice self-compassion, doesn’t know how, doesn’t feel deserving of it.

    I also wonder about your spine disease while growing up, if debilitating, it in itself is enough to cause learned helplessness in a child, even with supportive parents.

    Please share about these topics only if you feel comfortable doing so, and to the extent that you do.

    anita

     

    #431536
    kshiti1502
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    This relation of learned helplessness and self compassion with childhood makes sense to me and I won’t deny the possibility that it is somewhere rooted in my childhood experiences (especially my problematic relationship with my dad). It is true that I wasnt shown enough compassion and appreciation, and there was a point in my teens when I began to feel as if I had nothing good in me apart from my academics.

     

    Regarding my living situation, I am currently in a different country (UK) where IĀ  shifted in October 2023 for my masters. Previous to it, I was living away from home since 2022 for my undergraduate studies. But I used to regularly come back at home.

    My spine condition is much better as of now touch wood, my medication stopped in December 2022 and currently I’m doings well on that front. But yes its true that I didn’t get the compassion and even kind treatment I required during the peak of my disease.

     

    Kshitij

    #431542
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Kshitij:

    It is true that I wasn’t shown enough compassion and appreciation… I didnā€™t get the compassion and even kind treatment I required during the peak of my disease“- you needed compassion, you still do. In the absence of compassion, we get anxious (Intrusive and Anxious Thoughts is the title of your thread).

    Is there anyone at all, where you now live, who is a friend, someone to give you a hug when needed, someone to smile warmly when talking to you…?

    there was a point in my teens when I began to feel as if I had nothing good in me apart from my academics“- do you mean that your parents, particularly your father perhaps, showed appreciation for your academic performance only, and for nothing else about you?

    anita

    #431567
    kshiti1502
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I have some close friends back in my home country who talk to me on a daily basis, and make me feel good. I am still developing new friendships in the UK and maybe it will take time to develop close bonds.

     

    Regarding the second part, yes I feel it was exactly like this. I have never heard an appreciation or compliment from my father about my nature, about who I am apart from studies. Instead from early childhood, I would get to listen to very harsh criticism and ‘sermons’ (if the word conveys what I try to say) on even the most trivial issues. he would use to presume that in any given situation, I would be automatically at fault. It was like he had a problem with everything I did and I don’t know why his attitude was like this considering his contrasting attitude towards my younger sibling.

    Kshitij

    #431568
    kshiti1502
    Participant

    Dear Roberta,

     

    Thank you very much for your suggestion. I will definitely go through this book, hope it helps me as well .

    Regards

     

    #431584
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Kshitij:

    * The following is a long and comprehensive post and it may be difficult/ emotional for you to read, so, please take your time reading, take breaks when needed, and as always, of course, you can choose to stop and not resume reading.

    I have never heard an appreciation or compliment from my father about my nature, about who I am apart from studies. Instead from early childhood, I would get to listen to very harsh criticism and ā€˜sermonsā€™.. on even the most trivial issues. He would use to presume that in any given situation, I would be automatically at fault. It was like he had a problem with everything I did and I donā€™t know why his attitude was like this considering his contrasting attitude towards my younger sibling.“-

    – I am now re-reading your original post and onward with the information above in mind, information I didn’t have before. I will be quoting you and commenting on the parts that I will boldface, with the info above in mind. (In parentheses are quotes from 12 hours ago, the above)

    “the officers related with the scheme for some whimsical reasons chose to not let my application progress“- for whimsical reasons, your father chose to give you those sermons (“He had a problem with everything I did”, “the most trivial issues“).

    “I felt completely shattered because as it felt that things were going good, something worse than my imagination hit me. It would have been so unfair”- I imagine that as a child, you tried your very best to be a good, obedient daughter, get your father approval and avoid his very harsh criticism aka (your word) sermons. Sometimes, when he was nice to you/ wasn’t critical for sometime, you had hope that there will be no more sermons, but just as you thought things were going good, there was another sermon.

    ” I am sort of tired of ruminating on intrusive thoughts and having breakdowns even though that situation didnā€™t happen in reality”– that situation (your application for scholarship being denied) didn’t happen, but your childhood need to be appreciated by your father/ to not be criticized, that need was denied again and again, repeatedly, and for years (I have never heard an appreciation or compliment….I would get to listen to very harsh criticism”).

    “My intrusive thoughts make me feel as if that situation has actually happened, and it is my reality. I get flashbacks of what I felt during that time, some examples are ā€“ ‘nothing ever gets better’… ‘this is so unfair’. I think my emotional state at that moment has left such imprints that they still affect me, making me ruminate over them even though my reality is different”-

    – the scholarship application situation triggered the trauma in your childhood sermons situation (lets call it CSS). The thoughts you had as a child, during those sermons were “nothing ever gets better” no matter how hard I try, and this (his very harsh criticism) is so unfair“!

    “When the scholarship issue came, it shattered me because of the sheer unfairness of the issues and I began feeling that just when things started to become better, they went for worse… I began to think that it’s pointless to keep hopes as all I got was traumatic setbacks again and again“- the CSS was truly unfair. You did not deserve it AT ALL. It created trauma in you (the term for it is complex childhood trauma, because it’s not a one-time, single event trauma; it’s a many events trauma over a long time, years).

    As a child, every time things were becoming better (he treated you okay), you were hopeful, but out of nowhere, things got worse again (another CSS), and you were disappointed, hope dashed. From one point on, you figured it’d be easier to not hope: no hope=> no hope dashed/ no disappointment.

    “I personally think that if itā€™s related to the symptoms of PTSD, it is connected more with the scholarship issue; honestly speaking I had never felt such low, and despair and I almost wanted to give up.“-

    – the scholarship issue was not a trauma leading to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). The scholarship issue triggered your complex childhood trauma (part of Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, c-PTSD).

    As a child, you did feel such low, and despair, and wanting to give up, but as children do, you pushed down those feelings so to lower your distress and be able to survive and function, sort of putting these feelings to sleep. So, now, looking back, you probably don’t remember how intensely you felt back then. What happened with the scholarship application situation is that it awakened those sleeping feelings, brought them up to the surface.

    “The scholarship issue… brought at the same time, an unbearable mix of emotions like despair, frustration, bitterness, hopelessness etc. I felt that no matter how much I tried, things would always get worse“- I boldfaced the intense feelings of childhood awakened by the scholarship issue. What I italicized is the theme of your complex childhood trauma.

    “it makes me anxious because I feel a lack of control that scares me about how things will go”- growing up, you weren’t able to control your father’s behavior, you had no control (no matter how hard you tried) over the CSS, which happened again and again, no matter what.

    “my intrusive thoughts have again begun to consume me, and I am having a breakdown everyday because of them. Iā€™m trying the strategy but isnā€™t doing much help” (March 25)- your intrusive thought are a combination of your father’s accusations of you and your thoughts about his accusations.

    “I visualise myself… weeping in a close room shutting myself from everything else with no desire to do anything for self-care” (April 10)- this is probably what you did as a child, how you felt back then.

    “Sometimes I feel as if I am getting depressed even though everything is going well right now“- because your child self knows that everything that is going well right now, can turn upside down anytime with another sermon.

    “I am not able to get why I am imagining myself in such depressing scenarios now?” (April 10)- because for the child-self within us lives in the past. For the traumatized child-within the past is still happening.

    “From early childhood, I would get to listen to very harsh criticism and ā€˜sermonsā€™ (if the word conveys what I try to say) on even the most trivial issues. he would use to presume that in any given situation, I would be automatically at fault. It was like he had a problem with everything I did and I donā€™t know why his attitude was like this considering his contrasting attitude towards my younger sibling” (April 10)- assuming you are the oldest, or oldest girl among your siblings, it is possible that when you were his one and only daughter, he projected someone he hated into you, a woman who abused him (maybe his mother, maybe an aunt who took care of him, maybe an older sister, maybe a combination of these), and proceeded to punish you for.. what someone else did to him when he was a child, or a teenager, way before you were born. This kind of projection and is what’s behind a lot of childhood abuse cases.

    By the time his other children were born, you already took the role of the hated-one, so your siblings were free of that one role, or maybe they were free from the extent of that role that you suffered from.

    It so happens, that I was the target of my mother’s hate sermons/ tirades, she projected people who abused her as a child (way before I was born) into me and proceeded to punish me for what they have done (the common theme behind child abuse). As a result I suffered from (and was diagnosed with) Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. In her angry tirades, she accused me of intentionally hurting her feelings and making her want to die. My intrusive thoughts were about causing her to die. I’d have a thought (thought A) and then an intrusive thought appeared:Ā  this thought (thought A) could kill her. Next thing I did was a compulsion to neutralize the supposed death causing thought, ex. knocking on the table 3 times , turning around one way a few times, and then the other way the same number of times.

    anita

Viewing 8 posts - 46 through 53 (of 53 total)

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