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  • #452692
    Roberta
    Participant

    I have just watched this talk by Gil Fronsdal Patience as opening instead of enduring https://www.youtube.com/live/tpNk7xcdU_0?si=9QXl0YgnXCu5zJMb.

    I could not decide which thread to post it on so started a new one a clean blank slate, suck it & see.

    #452785
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Roberta:

    Congrats for starting your very first thread in the forums!

    I began listening to the YouTube about Patience and found myself losing patience, lol. But I do intend to listen to all of it and let you know what it meant for me

    I want to honor your participation in tiny buddha by posting here parts of your very first post in the forums. It was in a thread titled “The End of the Road”:

    Roberta, April 2, 2022: “Dear Javier I only joined this tiny buddha today, so I hope it is alright to post to you.
    As an only child, I knew it would be up to me to look after my parents in their old age, and if I did not want it to be a living hell for all of us including my children then something had to change to break the age old cycle

    “I had an uneasy relationship (that is putting it politely) with my mother. Back in 2009 when on retreat I realised Ā that I could only change my attitude and ideas about my mother, but not her and that the Buddhist path was going to be the biggest help…

    “The one or two practices that helped me be with my mum as she was dying was foremostly the loving kindness practice: May you be filled with loving kindness, may you be held with loving kindness, may you be peaceful & at ease and may you be happy…. Her passing was very peaceful and I am glad that I made the effort to not only study but practice the dharma. I am at peace with myself and my mother…. Kind regards, Dharma granny”

    May I be filled with loving kindness today and every day. May I hold others with loving kindness. May I be peaceful & at ease and may I help others be peaceful and at ease.

    Thank you, Roberta (Dharma granny) for your honest, high quality posts to so many members over the years (3 years, 8 months, and 7 days).Ā  Ā 

    Kind regards, šŸ¤ Anita

    #452792
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear Anita
    Thank you for giving the video a chance. The beginning bit was a bit dry mainly about how words in this case patience can change in tone/meaning during translation, I watched it twice, the second time with a friend, we would pause it & discuss its relevance to our situations. Like how to be with the feelings of heartache when I go to visit my dad in hospital.
    Thank you for taking the time to follow my journey on this site, it really is a wonderful & diverse community & I love to see how we are all growing & healing one way or another.
    Best wishes
    Roberta

    #452794
    anita
    Participant

    Thank you for the reply, Roberta. I will listen to the rest of the video by tomorrow and get back to you!

    Best wishes back to you!

    Anita

    #452818
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Roberta:

    It is difficult for me to listen to audios (ADD, auditory processing difficulties), so I decided to read (research and process the information right here, in this post, instead of listening to the video:

    Gil Fronsdal is a Norwegian-born American Buddhist teacher, scholar, and writer, with Ph.D. in Buddhist Studies from Stanford University. He has spoken extensively about patience as a vital quality in Buddhist practice, emphasizing that patience is not passive endurance but an active cultivation, and a form of inner strength. It allows practitioners to meet difficulties without being overwhelmed; to stay present without rushing toward results/ without being driven by reactivity.

    In his 2025 talk Patience as Opening Instead of Enduring (the link you provided, Roberta), he describes patience as a way of opening to experience rather than merely enduring it. This shift makes patience dynamic and liberating.

    He says that patience can help us stay true under stress, persevere gently, and even remain grounded when insulted.

    ā€œOne of the important qualities of mindfulness practice that supports us tremendously is that of patience.ā€

    ā€œIn Buddhism, practice is not about what you do, but what you grow. Patience is one of those qualities we cultivate.ā€

    Gil Fronsdal’s Step-by-Step Guide to Cultivating Patience:

    1. Patience as Strength- See patience not as weakness but as resilience. Practice staying calm when things don’t go your way.
    Example: When stuck in traffic, notice frustration but choose to breathe and soften.

    2. Patience with Stress- Stress often triggers reactivity. Fronsdal teaches that patience allows us to pause before reacting.
    Practice: When stressed, ask yourself, ā€œCan I be with this moment without needing it to change immediately?ā€

    3. Patience with Insult- He highlights patience as a shield against insult or criticism. Instead of reacting defensively, patience lets us stay grounded. Practice: Hear the words fully, breathe, and respond only after the initial sting subsides.

    4. Patience as Perseverance- Patience is endurance with gentleness. It’s about continuing practice even when progress feels slow.
    Practice: In meditation, when the mind wanders, patiently return to the breath without judgment.

    5. Patience as Openness- Fronsdal reframes patience as opening to experience rather than enduring it. This makes patience dynamic and liberating. Practice: When facing discomfort, ask, ā€œWhat is this teaching me?ā€ instead of ā€œWhen will this end?ā€

    6. Patience as Cultivation (Bhavana)- In Buddhism, practice is about growing qualities. Patience is cultivated like a skill, not forced. Practice: Treat each challenge as soil in which patience can grow.

    How to apply daily: * Use traffic, waiting lines, or delays as practice grounds.
    * Notice emotional triggers (anger, stress, insult) and pause before reacting.
    * Reframe patience as openness—a chance to learn, not just endure.

    Begin the day with calm breathing, noticing any impatience about starting the day.
    Intention Setting: Silently say, ā€œToday I will meet challenges with patience and openness.ā€
    Micro-Practice: As you brush your teeth or make coffee, slow down deliberately. This trains patience in small, ordinary acts.

    When stress arises (emails, traffic, interruptions), take one full breath before responding.

    Use waiting times (lines, loading screens, meetings starting late) as practice grounds. Instead of frustration, notice your body and soften.

    Reframe Challenges: Ask, ā€œWhat is this teaching me?ā€ rather than ā€œWhen will this end?ā€ This shifts patience from endurance to openness.

    Sit quietly, noticing impatience in the body or mind. Practice returning to the breath with kindness.

    Daily Reflection: Write down one moment where you practiced patience and one where impatience arose.

    End the day by acknowledging patience as something you are cultivating, not something you must perfect.”

    This all reminds me of GRACE, what you shared about, Roberta (a note you have on your frig, I think: Gather attention, Recall intention, Attune, Consider action, Engage (and disengage). GRACE is part of my daily mantra.

    I want to process the above more, over time and let Patience grow within me. Thank you very much, Roberta!

    Is there something about the video that’s missing from the above research/ study, Roberta? If so, I’d love to know what it may be.

    šŸ™ šŸ¤ Anita

    #452824
    Thomas168
    Participant

    More than 49 minutes on patience as opening instead of enduring. Lost me in the first few minutes. Will try again when I might be more receptive. 49 minutes, … of that soft monotone voice.

    #452827
    anita
    Participant

    You are positively funny, Thomas! So, I looked it up and there no known complaints about his voice being soft and monotonous.

    Many listeners, so I read, actually appreciate his soft, steady, and somewhat monotone delivery because it creates a calm, meditative atmosphere that supports mindfulness practice.

    His voice is described as gentle, measured, and even-toned. For meditation practitioners, this lack of dramatic inflection helps reduce distraction and keeps attention focused inward.

    On Audio Dharma, where thousands of his talks are freely available, listeners frequently praise his style as ā€œpeaceful,ā€ ā€œaccessible,ā€ and ā€œlife-changingā€. His talks are highly rated (4.8/5 from over 400 reviews), showing that his delivery resonates with a wide audience.

    Context Matters, I read- in meditation and Dharma talks, the goal isn’t entertainment — it’s cultivating mindfulness and equanimity. His style reflects the Buddhist emphasis on simplicity and clarity, avoiding unnecessary distraction from the teachings.

    So while some might initially find his voice ā€œmonotonous,ā€ in the meditation community it’s often seen as a strength — a steady presence that supports practice rather than competing with it.

    I am now intrigued and I may try a second listening.

    Coming to think about it, Thomas, my own preference for a dramatic, exciting delivery may be about needing something to compete with the noise and drama inside me; the turmoil and anxiety within.

    This evening, Roberta, I practiced Patience as Opening as I walked on the treadmill for 30 minutes, a task I find very boring (It’s been raining too hard outside the whole day!) and it was amazing. I stayed present instead of my mind rushing with “When will this be over? How many more minutes?

    I listened to sounds, stayed presence, didn’t drift to “What’s next?” and the walk didn’t feel long or mentally difficult.

    šŸ™ šŸ¤ Anita

    #452832
    Roberta
    Participant

    Hi Anita & Thomas

    I came across Gil and his 7am Meditations & dharamettes during lockdown when our meditation group could not meet in person.
    For our group it met many criteria, No music, right length of time, clear speech, included a short dharma talk, a gentle sense of humour.
    Some of our group was quite elderly & could not easily hear the higher pitches of a woman speech or struggled to catch words of people who have an accent. One of our meditators spent a whole session wondering why the person was talking about lawn tennis, it was in fact loving kindness which gave us all a good laugh afterwards.
    For real hard core monotone I listen to Ajhan Sumendho, he puts me to sleep within minutes!

    In general I like to watch talks, partly because I lip read slightly & also my mind is less likely to wander & I can catch subtle nuances such as a twinkle in some ones eyes or if they are being jokingly being dramatic. Thubten Chodren, Ajhan Braham & Robina Courtain it is definitely eyes open when they are giving talks.
    Whereas meditation my eyes are gently shut or unfocused to help with concentration, sat up relaxed yet alert I can for a short while listen to teachings in mediative equipoise.
    I find it interesting if I am reading a meditation instruction in a book etc I drop into that space as I read, a bit like Anita being able to practice whilst on the treadmill.
    Roberta

    #452843
    Thomas168
    Participant

    That is fantastic to find peace within oneself while doing tasks that usually bores one. I personally like routines. Wake up in the morning and make my wife breakfast. When my kid wakes up then make her breakfast. She never knows what she wants but it is usually not what I make her. So sometimes I have two breakfasts and she doesn’t want to eat. Then feed the chickens. Don’t know how they stand the cold. I bring feed and a new tub of water. The water is frozen overnight. Sometimes the chickens will eat my kids breakfast so I don’t have to. They love oatmeal.

    Sorry off topic again. My mind drifts which makes the meditation a bit of a work out. A friend calls that creeping vines. But, I am told to just sit and watch the thoughts like cars going past my porch. Patience to just sit and not think and be aware. Don’t know why that is easy but to listen to another person talk on and on makes me itchy pants. Guess, got to develop some interest in it first. Maybe that is the key to living a good life? Having enough interest in it to live it well??

    #452859
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Roberta and Thomas:

    I enjoy both of your senses of humor, brings a smile to my face!

    Been busy here, in the forums all day, so didn’t get the time to listen to the audio/ video. Like Thomas though, it’s not just about time. It really is difficult for me to listen to an audio, particularly when someone speaks slowly and in a monotone (speaking fast and in a monotone is worse!), “makes me itchy pants” (Thomas’s words), ha-ha, don’t remember hearing it said just that way.

    Be back to this thread later.

    šŸ™ Anita

    #452895
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Roberta

    I left a message, it’s awaiting moderation because there was a link in it.

    I forgot to add because I just came back from a walk. I’m sorry to hear that your father was/is in hospital. Do you think he will be coming out again? Or is it long term at this point? 🩵

    Sorry for bringing it up if you don’t want to talk about it. 🩵

    #452901
    Roberta
    Participant

    Hi Alessa
    My dad is in the long stay unit. There just is not the right kind of help at the right time for carers looking after their loved ones.
    If I get a million pounds, I could start a shared care unit & look after dad along with say three or four people in the same situation of wanting to be with their family, but just need a little extra support as & when it is needed. By living together sharing cooking, shopping, etc & having companionship. Shared care option would be less of a financial burden both on the families & on the state.
    Thanks for your concern, it’s late here.
    Speak soon
    regards
    Roberta

    #452904
    Thomas168
    Participant

    Hey Roberta,

    I hope you find what you need at the time when you need it. Good luck.

    #452906
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Roberta:

    I wish your father well. I shared recently that I have a desire to volunteer in a nursery home for old people facing end of life.

    Problem solved in regard to listening to the video. I found a transcript.. well, not quite, the words don’t appear with spaces in between, so I had to form spaces in between letters so to form words.

    “So this idea of knowing how to be present for things which are pleasant and unpleasant, pleasing and unpleasing, and have the mind have this spaciousness or stability or largeness that we’re not triggered easily, we’re not upset, we don’t get caught up in it and lost in the reactivity to it, is part of what patience is about, this khanti. So maybe there’s another word in English besides patience that would capture this better. I don’t know what that would be. Or we have to kind of learn the Buddhist word for meaning of patience.

    “But in the context of wider Buddhism, and especially these things called the perfections, we have to also understand what gives rise to patience, what gives rise to this earth‑like ability to hold in beautiful way the life that we have, to hold in a beautiful way what is unpleasing, what is difficult. And that is to understand something about the Buddhist notion of wholesomeness. And the idea is that,
    so I like to translate patience as, not by a single different word than patience, khanti, but rather to call it wholesome patience. And then maybe you get a sense of that maybe it could be beautiful if it’s wholesome. And so one of the functions of wisdom in Buddhism, and Buddhism is often seen as a wisdom tradition, is not to read an encyclopedia about Buddhist philosophy and then become wise,
    but rather for you to take a deep look in yourself, to really not be present for yourself, to be able to see, feel, observe within yourself what feels healthy for you and what is unhealthy.

    “What feels like it diminishes you and what kind of opens you, inspires you. To feel what nourishes you versus what denourishes you. To feel what gives you good energy and what drains it away. And all those ideas are kind of held within this concept of wholesomeness and unwholesomeness. Which I kind of like because it means part of the whole or not part of the whole. The unwholesome is what
    takes us away from the whole.

    “What whole? I don’t know. The whole of who you are, the whole of what this world is like, that we want to be in it in the whole, as it is, not partial, not selective, not with blinders on. And there’s something about clinging, resisting, assertiveness, conceit, something about even anxiety and fear sometimes, that become kind of like blinders. It’s kind of like we diminish ourselves. We’re cutting, it’s a selectivity process that takes us out of the whole. And so to return to the whole, to the whole experience of the present moment, the Buddha often talked about the whole body, being mindful of the whole body as we meditate, being mindful of the whole mind ,not the divided mind ,but them in… really getting to know for ourselves is how we use our awareness, how we use attention. The very thing that is the means by which we navigate through our world, the very medium, it’s kind of like if the medium for fish to get through their world is water, the medium for humans to get through our world is our awareness, our attention. Everything that we experience in the world goes through that filter.

    “And so how are you aware? How are you attending to the world? How are you observing? How are you seeing it? And is that wholesome or unwholesome? Is it beautiful or is it not so beautiful how you see it?

    “And so awareness itself sometimes, the way we attend to the world, can be full of greed, can be full of hatred, can be full of delusion. It can be full of anxiety, restlessness. It can be filled with preoccupations and doubt. It can be filled with interpretations and bias through which we see the experience of the world. And so this focus on what is healthy and not healthy is not to interpret these things, but to feel what we’re doing and feel, oh, when I’m seeing the world through my hatred, this is unhealthy for me.
    This doesn’t feel good. There’s tension here. There’s stress here. When I have seen the world through my greed, there’s tension here. It diminishes me. It takes me out of the whole.

    “When I’ve caught up in my anxiety, you know, it’s hard with anxiety because anxiety is so concerned with what it’s anxious about that we don’t see the effect anxiety has on us. It just seems like it’s true. But if we turn all these ways, we turn the attention around 180 degrees to really look at the effect that our behavior has, the effect of how we’re relating to things, we can feel, wow, this is actually, no wonder I’m exhausted by the end of the day. I’m just constantly reacting against everything. I’m constantly afraid of everything and trying to establish my place. I’m constantly wanting something. And I’m constantly disappointed, constantly the world’s not living up to what I want it to be. And so we see that and say, is there another way? Is there a way that it’s not stressful? What’s the opposite of stress? Not just the absence of stress, but it’s some kind of wonderful vitality, wonderful, relaxed, open vitality in which we live our life.

    “So the wisdom factor in Buddhism, the mindfulness practice in Buddhism, is here partly for us to be able to read ourselves well. That’s the encyclopedia we want to study. Don’t get the book. The book you want to read is your own heart. You want to have a very acute sensitivity to what goes on in your heart, in your mind, in your body, in your speech, so that it stops being unwholesome. It starts being wholesome. It stops being, I don’t know if I want to say ugly, but I just did. And instead we want it to be beautiful.

    “Can we make it beautiful, what we do and how we live? Is that wise? Is that useful? Well, if what you want to do is get wealthy really fast, maybe not, so don’t bother. You can go now. But if you want freedom, if you want to not just be distressed and be calm, but to find
    this higher capacity for living a life that’s beautiful, the qualities of heart and mind that come forth in you, are satisfying, deeply, deeply satisfying for you. You feel like, ah, I’m home. Because I know inside of me now, this feels good. We become our own friend.

    “Our inner life is our friend. Ah, this is beautiful. This is nice. So wisdom begins helping us discern the difference between what’s healthy and not healthy for us, wholesome and not wholesome. And one of the things that teaches us then is where to put our energy, how to appl your energy. And so we have to make choices. And so as we have a better sense of what is wholesome and unwholesome, we can make wiser choices about where we take this wonderful human capacity of vitality that we have, energy we have, and use it to awaken a healthy kind of energy and kind of stop doing things which are a kind of energy that is exhausting, that’s agitating, that’s stressful, that’s exhausting for us. And it’s one of the great delight of Buddhist practice to start feeling this wonderful, engagement with the world, the things that we do, engagement with practice, that feels like it has a vitality and a liveness to it that feels good and
    healthy.”-

    There’s more, but I am done with separating letters to reveal words (exhausting). This will have to do. Will process the above tomorrow.

    Anita

    #452888
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Roberta

    Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed the video.

    It’s a good reminder to be mindful of our perspective, the choices we make and how these factors affect our experiences. 🩵

    This is a link to the Daoist book which the story I shared on Peter’s thread was from.

    https://archive.org/details/book-of-master-lie-lieh-tzu-thomas-cleary/page/n43/mode/1up

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