Home→Forums→Relationships→Confused and seeking guidance on an unconventional relationship
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May 8, 2020 at 12:26 pm #354042
Anonymous
GuestDear Isabelle:
You are 45. Your mother was “depressive and emotionally distant”, your father abandoned you when you were six, you view yourself as having a high IQ, sensitive, altruistic, empathetic, idealistic, “struggling with anxiety for as far as I can remember, depressive at times, and “very alone in this world”.
At about 31, you started a relationship with a short tempered, “very egocentric” man, had a child with him at 33, helped him with his work while doing your PhD and taking care of your son, “gave way too much and became exhausted and depressed at about 39, six years ago.
A year ago, June 2019, at 44, after two years of having sex with your partner only once, you wanted to “reignite my sex life and feel attracted to my partner again”. Two months later, in August, you felt a very strong attraction, not to your partner, but to another man whom you met on a short trip that you took by yourself. That experience shook you to your core. You returned to your life with “a little glimmer of hope that I could feel alive, feel whole and good again”.
Three months later, Nov 2019, your partner verbally abused you while knowing that you were struggling: “It broke something in our relationship and he realized it. He tried to make amends.. was as sweet as can be”, but “his sweetness felt fake”.
“Slowly, an idea formed into my mind. If I could find a ‘friend-with-benefits’ to share affection and have sex with, maybe I could keep my family whole. After all, I had told my partner several times that he could find such a friend for himself”. Dec 2019, you met a man on a dating website who like you “wanted to find one person to build a sexual/ sensual friendship with, not one-night stands”. After weeks of quality online communication with him, you met him Feb 2020, and saw him in person about three times before “the pandemic began”. He is a very busy man and doesn’t have much time to communicate with you.
“I do not know what to do with this relationship. I am going back and forth between ending it and carrying on”. You like him, “felt so at ease” with him, “like a warm blanket, like balm on my wounds”, a rare experience for you, but you also “often end up feeling sad and disappointed because I want more of him and I am not getting it”. You doubt if he really is too busy to email you more often, wondering if he is afraid to get attached to you, suspecting that when he told you that you are beautiful and intelligent, he was just sweet talking you”.
You ended your original post with: “I’ll stop here. If you have thoughts on my situation, please share”.
My thoughts about your situation: I see your only moral obligation as that of a mother to her preteen son, and none to who you refer to as your partner. Reads like there is no merit in your relationship with said partner, nothing there other than perhaps a practical arrangement in regard to finances, a shared house and being co-parents.
I don’t think that this very poor quality partnership is worth maintaining by supplementing it with a friend with benefits. I think that this very poor quality partnership should be resolved: separate the finances, separate residences, co parent effectively and be a single woman, free to meet another single man.
I think that what you need more than anything in a relationship is a man you can trust, a man who will be available to you, a man who is patient and respectful. Perhaps you met a man like this before, but failed to form a relationship with him because you weren’t aware of and weren’t focused on what you truly needed from a man.
The man you met a few times, he is not available to you because he is very busy career wise and with his own partner and children. There is no reason for you to compromise this way: separate from your own pseudo partner and seek an available, single partner, worthy of a true, quality partnership.
That August 2019 “glimmer of hope”, that made you “feel alive, feel whole and good again”, as well as the Feb 2020 the feeling of being “at ease with someone.. like a warm blanket, like balm on my wounds”- you can experience these feelings with a man you haven’t yet met, a trustworthy, available, patient and respectful man. Your choice should not be limited to these two men, neither one of whom you can or should trust.
Feel free to let me know of your thoughts about my reply, and we can communicate further.
anita
May 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm #354064Isabelle
ParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you so much for your thoughful, non-judgemental response. I am amazed at how well you summed up my situation. Thank you.
Of course, you are completely right. Perhaps I was not clear on this, but I have already ended my relationship with my father’s son. I moved out on March 2nd. So that’s a start. Now, I am having a very difficult time finding the courage to end this relationship with my friends-with-benefits. How do I do that? It may sound foolish, but being with him has felt so good after years of unhappiness and struggle. I feel like a drowning person who has finally found a buoy to hold on to. I am afraid that I will not find someone else. The kind of men you described, I have never met. So I guess that I am compromising. Something that I have done quite a bit in my life.
Any advice on how to find the courage to end this relationship with my friends-with-benefits would be most welcome.
Take care Anita.
Isabelle
May 8, 2020 at 5:08 pm #354068Anonymous
GuestDear Isabelle:
You are very welcome and thank you for your appreciation. I didn’t know you left your son’s father, that’s good news to me.
Regarding whom you refer to as your friends with benefits, if he was a good part of the reason you left your son’s father, then meeting him was of benefit to you.
“It may sound foolish.. I feel like a drowning person who has finally found a buoy to hold on to”- it is not foolish for a drowning person to hold on to a buoy. It is instinctive and naturally.. wise.
Part of the reason I suggested to not proceed with him is because of the distress and distrust in him that you described. If overall there is more distress than comfort+joy in your relationship with him, then it’s not much of a buoy for you anymore.
“The kind of men you described, I have never met” – how wonderful it will be when you do meet one. I met a good man in my later forties, now married to him.
“Any advice on how to find the courage to end this relationship with my friends-with-benefits would be most welcome”- no rush to end this relationship: you don’t see him, if I understand correctly, because of quarantine, on one hand, and on the other you moved out of your ex’s two months ago, and you need something… or someone to hold on to, that buoy you mentioned. So don’t pressure yourself to let go of him.
But keep in mind the distress vs. comfort/joy balance so that you are not holding on to a buoy-turned-cement brick that will drag you down, under water.
Be kind to yourself, aim at peace of mind and a better life for yourself, have you (and your son) be your number one priority. Post here anytime and I will be glad to reply to you every time you post.
anita
May 8, 2020 at 5:55 pm #354074Isabelle
ParticipantDear Anita,
I am indeed pressuring myself to end things with P (my friends with benefits) because I am afraid of getting hurt. I do not understand how he cannot find 5 minutes to email me in a day. And so, I tell myself, he does not care as much as I do, better to end this before getting hurt. I try to put on my tough woman armor and say “I am done!” But there is always this doubt in my mind. I cannot find clarity.
Also, what I have learned about myself recently makes me question my impulse to end this relationship. As mentioned in my original post, I am what is called a “highly gifted person”. Two separate psychologists diagnosed me. I did not believe the first one, which, turns out, reflects the self- and general- doubt typical of this profile. I would simply call it being an “intense person” instead, because the positive ring to “highly gifted person” detracts from the many negative aspects of it. One of them is loneliness. This means that when I feel a connection, which rarely occurs, I want close and frequent contacts with the person. More than what most people want. And it feels very painful when this does not happen. The other person rarely knows what is going on because I hold back in order not to scare them. P certainly does not know.
So maybe, as you suggest, I should not pressure myself to end things with him. And you are very right in mentioning that I should keep in mind the distress/joy balance so that I dont get dragged down. It is difficult for me to do analyze this balance right now because I have a hard time concentrating. This pandemic is taking its toll on my mental health, despite my best efforts to stay healthy by meditating, exercising and eating well. I guess that I should give myself time.
It is encouraging to know that you met someone in your late forties. Maybe this will happen for me too. 🙂
Thank you for reading me.
Isabelle
May 8, 2020 at 7:03 pm #354084Anonymous
GuestDear Isabelle:
Yes, please don’t pressure yourself especially at a time when you are distressed, because of the pandemic taking a toll on your mental health.
“I am what is called a ‘highly gifted person’. Two separate psychologists diagnosed me”-
I read in Wikipedia a bit on “intellectual giftedness”. If I understand correctly, highly gifted is a term that many educators use to describe children who are superior intellectually but lag behind in emotional development or other aspects, like Einstein who was intellectually superior but learned to speak later than children his age.
I looked at a website (gifted matter. com/ diagnosis gifted) and if I understand correctly, some psychotherapists took the term from its educational/ children context to psychotherapy/adult context, offering psychotherapy designed to fit highly gifted adults.
The website reads: “giftedness is not a specialty in which formal training is offered”, but nonetheless offers therapy that addresses the special needs of the highly gifted adults.
It reads: “giftedness is a (neurological) asynchronous development in which advanced cognitive abilities and heightened intensity combine to create inner experience and awareness that are qualitatively different from the norm.. Emotional sensitive itself shouldn’t be a target of therapy. Emotional sensitivity is not a pathology nor is it a lack of maturity… Many gifted people have low self-esteem or have imposter syndrome and believe they will eventually be ‘caught‘. Conversely, many gifted people try to hide or camouflage their intelligence for a variety of reasons.. Sometimes the problems a gifted person experiences result from a poor fit- relationship, environment, academic, or expectations.”
Are the parts I italicized in the quote true to you, and if so, will you elaborate on these things? I ask because I want to understand you and your challenge with P better. Answer if you would like to. I will be away from the computer in a few moments and back in about 12 hours from now. If you reply I will be glad to read and post to you again when I am back.
anita
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May 8, 2020 at 8:21 pm #354092Ravi
ParticipantHi Isabelle,
Maybe I will say something that you already know and some others in the past may have already told you about “your relationship with yourself”. That sounds common but there is a meaning to it.
Just for a moment think of yourself without this person (P). How does that make you feel? Based on what you have mentioned in the post it doesn’t look like you feel complete without him. Truly speaking there is nothing like the ‘others complete us’. We have to complete ourselves.
Is there a written guarantee that when both you and P are together that you will again have that “Reassuring. Warm. A feeling of the chest warming up in his presence.” May be it will be there initially but later on?
“I feel like a drowning person who has finally found a buoy to hold on to.”
Will this mean that if this person is not with you then you will drown? Then as I said above there is no guarantee and this can happen again. Then you are back to square one. The same feelings, the same frustration, then the need to have someone else in our life and the cycle continues. I can understand that its a human feeling but if someone else is causing us to drown then we are not on the right track with ourselves.
“I guess that I should give myself time.”
Yes I believe this is exactly what you should do but without having the need to make or break the relation with P. Maybe when he writes and email you can respond too and when you decide to meet you can meet too. But this time there will be a “detached expectation”. Meaning – even if he writes an email or calls me to meet or NOT, I am still fine with it, with myself, because now I love myself, now I am going to be happy with myself and nobody else will complete me. Being with him is beautiful but even without him I’m good. In that way nobody else can make or break you.
“Any advice on how to find the courage to end this relationship with my friends-with-benefits would be most welcome.”
So if you do as stated above, then you do not need to do anything. Because if you have “detached expectation” and if you guys interact again, interaction with him will be effortless. And if he does not contact you again, you are still effortless in love with yourself. And you won’t need any strong emotions like “courage” to break things.
“I am afraid that I will not find someone else”
I wish I could sugar coat things and tell you that “No no this is not true you will definitely find someone again”. Instead I will tell you the realities of life. There are so many people out there (including famous celebrities) who are good looking, have money, a good career, but are yet single even at a later stage of life. Nowhere I am saying that you won’t find anyone. But there is no guarantee. And even if we find, life will again throw its own challenges. It is not necessary we will have a nice, blissful, peaceful, loving relationship. But the only thing that would matter is a nice, blissful, peaceful, loving relationship with ourself….and then another person in our already existing beautiful life may come or go.
May 8, 2020 at 8:47 pm #354102Isabelle
ParticipantDear Anita,
The impostor syndrome I know very well. Despite having achieved a lot in my life by objective standards, I always attributed these achievements to external things such as luck or lenient evaluations. In the research field where I now work, I do not fit in. I pursued a career in this field in the hopes of making the world a better place. But instead, I found an ego-dominated environment where real-world preoccupations are only an afterthought. I am trying hard not to become cynical.
Lack of fit between my environment and myself pretty much sums my life, including with my loved ones. I love my family members dearly but I have never fit in with them.
One important reason why I stayed for 14 years with my ex and tried so hard to save our relationship is because on some levels, we understood each. He also has high IQ and emotionality. But his aggressiveness and lack of consideration and empathy made the relationship to him toxic for my son and I.
So here I was in December, feeling very, very alone, and hurt. And P came along and with his warmth and understanding, he made me feel better and achieve more clarity with regards to my situation. Exchanging with him helped me realize that I could never be happy with my son’s father and make the excruciatingly difficult decision of leaving him. Even though my fathers’ son was hinting that he might commit suicide if I was to leave him, I found the courage to do it. For this, I will always be grateful to P. And I cannot help but to want to hear from and see more of him. I want to be reassured that he is going to be there when this pandemic finally ends. Of course, my abandonment issues probably also have a lot to do with this.
I’ll stop here for tonight. If you have any thought, I’ll be happy to read them.
Take care,
Isabelle
May 9, 2020 at 7:01 am #354154Inky
ParticipantHi Isabelle,
My first thought: Is there any way to reconnect to the man you met on that infamous trip??
Second Thought: You know most people AREN’T gifted. Right?? Here is a very simple explanation why the current love does not email often: It is a pandemic. Very few people I know is at their A game right now. Even though we are all stuck at home, we are going through a collective trauma. He is probably stuck at home with his asexual partner (wife?). She is all (if it was me), “What are you doing (again) on your computer/phone, honey?” And if she is anything like most women she KNOWS there is/was someone in the wings. Just waiting. Hoping. Yearning. Jeez, I’d have sex with him too even if I was asexual and I felt another presence lurking in the background.
Lastly: He is not as on the fence as you might think. He may very well have an active sex life (now). His “asexual” could be her “twice a month”. He could be a One and Done cad.
Best,
Inky
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This reply was modified 5 years ago by
Inky.
May 9, 2020 at 7:09 am #354158Inky
ParticipantAnother Thought!!:
If he emails you once a week, you take two weeks to respond. If he writes ten sentences, you write five. He will either yearn for you or this whole thing will gracefully end. NEVER be the one asking for more. Let him think other men are indeed contacting you because of your brilliance and beauty. Would a brilliant beauty be chasing after some schlub who only writes once a week? (The Mensa answer would be “No”). The person who responds less and has less to say has more power in the relationship.
Mic Drop,
Inky
May 9, 2020 at 8:49 am #354174Anonymous
GuestDear Isabelle:
Congrats for leaving your ex, for having done the right thing for you and your son, my hat is off to you!
Regarding the lack of fit: “Lack of fit between my environment and myself pretty much sums my life, including with my loved ones. I love my family members dearly but I have never fit in with them”- I think that you didn’t fit in with your mother because she “was depressive and emotionally distant”, and you didn’t fit with your father because he “was alcoholic and he abandoned us”, and not because you have a high IQ/ being “a highly gifted person.
Regarding the imposter syndrome, not fitting in and cynicism: “Despite having achieved a lot in my life by objective standards, I always attributed these achievements to external things such as luck or lenient evaluations. In the research field where I now work, I don’t fit in.. I found an ego-dominated environment.. I am trying hard to not become cynical”-
-better than cynicism (or excessive optimism), is to be realistic with a touch of optimism. It is true that lots of work environments, including non-profits and such, are ego dominated. And it is true that luck has a lot to do with a lot of things, and it is true that a portion of professional evaluations in universities and the work place are lenient.
In your workplace, I know you wish it was better, that other people would be concerned primarily with making the world a better place. Accept that fact that this is not the case, and see if in the context of your workplace, you can still make a positive difference in the world (albeit a smaller positive difference than you hoped to make). If you can still make a positive difference in the world, then let it motivate you to keep going and get better and better at what you do.
Regarding your ex: “on some level, we understood each. He also has high IQ and emotionality. But his aggressiveness and lack of consideration and empathy made the relationship to him toxic for my son and I”- most people don’t put much of their IQ into good use, so better a partner who puts 70% of his lesser IQ into good use, than a partner who puts 5% of his highest IQ into good use (more IQ in-use this way).
Regarding “IQ and emotionality”- the interaction between the two should lead to peaceful relationships, the IQ being used to make peaceful relationships possible and likely. Your ex having been toxic to you and to his own son means that he used zero percent of his IQ for what matters most.
Regarding P- I still think that it’s better for you to be romantically and intimately involved with a man who is single, not a man who lives with a partner and with their children. Some women prefer married men simply because it keeps them safe from getting trapped with those men. They want an intimate relationship, but not too intimate, needing the Stop Sign to prevent them from moving in with the man.
anita
May 9, 2020 at 12:40 pm #354190Isabelle
ParticipantDear Ravi,
Thank you for your kind words.
When I think about myself without P, it makes me feel sad. I do not think that it is a matter of feeling incomplete without him, however. It is a sadness from loosing someone that I have felt connected to. It is more about him being there for me when I needed someone. Imperfectly, of course, but he was there. And now I am grieving his presence, I guess.
You know this idea of a relationship with myself is kind of strange to me. I do not understand what it means. We all need others, be they romantic partners, good friends or family member. I do not have many people that I can talk to and connect with in my life right now. I had P for a while. So it is difficult for me to have detached expectations. I do not know how to.
May 9, 2020 at 12:55 pm #354196Isabelle
ParticipantDear Inky,
Thank you for taking the time to answer!
There is no way I can reconnect with the man from my infamous trip.
All the things that you mention are indeed quite possible! I have no way of knowing. I am indeed keeping my distances with him since he started writing less often… As you say, maybe this whole thing will gracefully end.:)
You made me smile with your Mic Drop. Funny woman. 🙂
Take care,
Isabelle
May 9, 2020 at 1:40 pm #354200Isabelle
ParticipantDear Anita,
How does one cultivate a “realistic with a touch of optimism perspective”? I used to be optimist. Despite the depression and anxiety, there was always hope in my heart. Now I am having such a hard time finding it. It’s like I have been knocked down so many times in the past years, how do I find the strength to carry on? It feels like leaving my ex and moving out took the last of my strength. And as I am writing this, what comes to my mind is that I probably simply have to wait it out. Be as gentle to myself as I can be. Cry when needed. Rebuild my strength slowly. This has worked in the past, maybe it will work again.
Your remarks on my ex’s lack of use of his IQ are spot on. This is exactly what I kept telling myself… and then I would find him excuses for being so selfish and inconsiderate. I see this clearly now.
Perhaps I am doing the same thing with P. Being too understanding. As I mentioned in a previous post, sometimes I tell myself “OK now I am putting an end to this”. I write him an email to let him know…and I don’t send it. When I decided to end things with my ex, things were crystal clear in my head. They are not when it comes to P.
Yes, indeed a relationship with a single man would be better… I was still with my ex when I met P so the fact that he was already involved was fine by me. My situation has changed however, but not his…
Take care,
Isabelle
May 9, 2020 at 5:10 pm #354214Anonymous
GuestDear Isabelle:
You moved out only two months and seven days ago (March 2), that’s not long ago. Give yourself time to adjust further to this change, a change that is definitely for the better. And congratulate yourself for making this change, remind yourself of this accomplishment every day, giving yourself the credit you deserve for making it happen.
You wrote that you used to find your ex excuses “for being so selfish and inconsiderate”- what were those excuses?
“Perhaps I am doing the same thing with P. Being too understanding”- what is it that you understood about P, excusing him not taking the time to email you once or a few times per day?
“I was still with my ex when I met P.. My situation has changed however, but not his”- I wonder how he reacted to you moving out, if that scared him, leading him to think that since you moved, you’d want more from him (?)
(I don’t feel comfortable asking you question after question, yet.. how will I learn about you and your situation if I don’t ask.. ooops, I asked yet another question!)
“How does one cultivate a ‘realistic with a touch of optimism perspective?”- cultivate a realistic perspective by finding out what reality is. Regarding P- what is the reality of his partnership or marriage? What is his life like on the inside, behind closed doors, what is his routine, his relationships with his children, with the mother of his children, with others? The more information you have about his life, the more of a realistic perspective you will have about whether you can fit in his life, and in what ways/ to what extent.
A touch of optimism, you expressed optimism here: “Rebuild my strength slowly. This has worked in the past, maybe it will work again“!
anita
May 9, 2020 at 7:47 pm #354228Isabelle
ParticipantDear Anita,
Please feel free to ask all the questions that come to your mind. I am truly grateful that you are trying to help, and questions are necessary for you to achieve a better understanding of my situation.
I do tend to forget to congratulate myself for leaving my ex. I do this in general. It’s always on to the next challenge. Never enough. Thank you for reminding me to give kudos to myself. 🙂
The excuses I used for my ex were that he was stressed, unhappy with his job, which he found asked too much of him. Unhappy with life in general. I told myself that he had difficulty facing the challenges of life. And I thought I was partly responsible for his unhappiness, for neglecting him when my son was a baby.
With P, well he is explaining to me, in his emails, what is going on in his life. It’s clearly hectic. It was already quite hectic before the pandemic, to the point where I was already questioning whether he did have room for me in his life. And it has become worse with the pandemic. I believe him, when he explains to me how busy he is. But for me, deep down, this does not justify his failure to take 5 minutes, just a couple times a week, to write a few lines. He was able to write much more often before and his life was hectic back then, so why not now? If I am not worth 5 minutes a couple of times a week, then what am I worth in his eyes? Does he not want to know how I am doing? So I do not have to makes excuses for him. Rather, the similarity to my relationship with my ex is that I am still being understanding and patient with a man, hoping that things will get better.
When we spoke about my separation, P did not seem to fear me asking more from him. What he told me was that he might lose me to another man now that I was single.
The reality of P’s partnership I know quite a bit about. He stays with her for his children. Coming from a broken home – is father was completely absent, he never met him- P’s priority are his children. He wants to be there for them. He feels that his partner is focused on her business, on building it for their children, leaving no room for their love life. He says that they consulted with 2 therapists to try to make things better. They diagnosed her as asexual, and one of them suggested that perhaps P could find another woman to fill his sexual needs (like me, he has a strong libido). His partner was never opened to it, so after a while, he decided to find someone. That’s when we met.
Writing these lines, I am realizing that one thing that has been tormenting me about my relationship to him is that I feel that he broke my trust. When we started emailing back and forth, I told him that I was looking to find a friend with whom to also develop sexual intimacy. Because I could not – and still cannot – see myself just having sex without some sort of affection towards the other person. He completely agreed and said that this was exactly what he was looking for. When I was writing to him about my hesitations and worries with regards to my relationship with my partner, he encouraged me to open up and explicitly said that he really wanted to be my friend. And then, after we met for the first time, I felt him pull back a bit. He started writing less often, apologizing when he did not write for several days and explaining what had kept him. I feel betrayed because he has been acting less and less as a friend. I wrote him, the other day, that I felt like I had lost a friend and did not know why. He answered that his life was hectic, that he was having a hard time coping with the pandemic, that he really missed me and often thought about me. His emails are actually really sweet. But then I wonder, if things are so difficult, why is he not reaching out to me more? I did offer to lend him an ear.
So where I always end up is OK, I just have to be patient. Wait for this crazy period to come to an end, and then see what happens.
I did express optimism, didn’t I? 🙂 I think that writing here is really helping me.
Thank you, Anita. Take care.
Isabelle
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