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- This topic has 388 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 6 months ago by anita.
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June 20, 2017 at 5:50 am #154170AnonymousGuest
Dear Lisa:
There is a lot of aggression in relationships/ marriages, often not the overt kind. So when a man caters to a woman’s every whim, when the woman is in control within the context of a Win (for her)- Lose (for him) relationship, it is not because she is special and loved; it is because she is the aggressive party. She punishes the man if he doesn’t submit (aggression) and rewards him when he does.
What you want is to be loved; you wrote: “my loyalty and love is rejected I meant I would give that effortlessly to someone who loved me”- my point in this post is that love, unfortunately, is less common than aggression in relationships.
An aggressive woman is feared, really, not loved; she is dominant, not special.
anita
June 20, 2017 at 7:24 am #154182LisaParticipantI guess I never think of men being in that kind of position. I have seen a lot of that in relationships and always thought they just thought so highly of them. I have seen it also where the wife, some I would never expect, catering to whatever the husband says or does. I guess they don’t want to be alone like I am.
I am hanging on to my dream stubbornly and doing a lot of suffering for it. I wouldn’t want my husband to call me the boss or speak in anyway that says he doesn’t have freedom. Having a grip on someone emotionally is not love. I want to be equal in value to my husband. I feel men think that is strange.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Lisa.
June 20, 2017 at 8:22 am #154194AnonymousGuestDear Lisa:
You dreamed of love for a long, long time. I wish it happens for you. Somewhere there is a man who will love you if he met you and if you gave him the opportunity to get to know you. I am thinking, guessing, having read your story and having re-told it, that you have been unintentionally communicating to men that you are not interested.
I wish you did meet a man and that together, you will make each other’s lives better.
anita
June 21, 2017 at 6:40 am #154376MandersParticipantYou know there is a saying that you must first love yourself and I’m thinking that may apply here. You’ve made some references about waiting for a man, but I don’t think it actually works like that. Whether its doing activities or online dating, some proactivity is needed.
2 years ago I was betrayed by my husband and partner of 17 years. I still don’t feel ready to date. I feel too wounded and not in a good place to bring a healthy relationship into my life, so I am working on me, getting my self-esteem back up and my life in order so I am in a good place to bring a good relationship into my life. Happy people want to be around happy people.
I did date someone for a coupe of months last spring and he was critical, bossy and not supportive. I realized that since my self esteem was low and I was lonely in a new town that I was accepting this. Luckily it didn’t last and I recognize it and am determined to not do that again. I’m not ready to date because my self esteem isn’t strong.
I was going to counseling after the divorce, but like you couldn’t keep paying for it. So instead, I find things to read, videos to watch, I walk and garden. I recommend reading Brenee Brown. If you don’t want to buy books, she has videos online from her TedTalks. I find lots of good TedTalks. I also listen to podcasts. Seek things on the subject of self-esteem, healing past trauma. I have also found good stuff related to the subject of bulling, particularly memoirs. I find it cathartic to know others have felt the same way and have overcome their past.
I too was bullied as a kid and found that my husbands meanness and betrayal brought it back up to the surface for me. I had good years combined with our relationship, my job success and family and friends where my self-esteem was good. But the end of the marriage at the same time as the death of my mother also came with having to move a long distance by myself, figuring out a new career (while being jobless) and the loss of several friendships, some due to the divorce and some to other circumstances. It like my entire life was washed away and I have started anew. I still have bad days but I have more good and I try to look at it as a fresh beginning and appreciate the progress I have made. My attitude is that I’m making a comeback! By the way, I’m 47.
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. Carl Gustav Jung
June 22, 2017 at 7:32 am #154524LisaParticipantMy job put me on today and Saturday. I am trying to get a moment to respond to all. I hope anything I said has not caused me to lose you Anita as I sense I have.
June 22, 2017 at 7:46 am #154528AnonymousGuestDear Lisa:
You did not lose me. As I wrote to your repeatedly: whenever you have the time, energy and inclination to post, please do. No pressure whatsoever on my part. I understand how it is to live with significant and ongoing distress, and so.. I am okay with you posting whenever you do. I mean it (I make it a point to type what I mean and mean what I type…)
anita
June 22, 2017 at 7:48 am #154530AnonymousGuest* didn’t submit correctly…
June 22, 2017 at 6:01 pm #154610LisaParticipantEliana I am sorry it took me so long to respond. I am sorry to hear of your difficult childhood and your past experiences. I wish that you did not feel lonely. I am glad that you have something that helps you, DBT, and 12 step support groups. Have you ever read any books by Abraham Twerski? He uses the 12 step program for many issues and uses the Peanuts comic strip not only to add a little humor but also for some profound lessons.
I would like to hear more about what you do to help yourself. I would be interested in your help if you have the time.
Thanks,
Lisa
- This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Lisa.
June 23, 2017 at 9:18 pm #154752LisaParticipantAnita I have read over your telling of my story and I am so grateful that you put so much effort into it.
A couple of things I did want to mention though. I am not sure how I worded some things because I didn’t go back and read what I wrote.
I was told by my mother that my grandfather wanted me home when I was in a foster home. My aunt told me I was wanted but my grandmother didn’t know where I was.
The children that told me about my “adoption” did so pointedly and with much amusement. They also expected me to just go back to playing and I believe asked if I was crying when I came back out.
My employers have almost always been very happy with my actual work doing the job I was given.
I found out about certain men’s other interests by having conversations with them. Their wives or girlfriends would sometimes have a problem with me having those conversations.
You did a wonderful job telling my story and again thank you.
I like your suggestion about getting help and having time off. I think I would really benefit not having the daily stress of work. Everything I grew up with though tells me not to. I work no matter what. Injury…deal with it, weather, ice, snow, get throught it, no bus fare..walk to work. It’s what I was taught at home. It was what I was taught at school. It’s veey complicated for me to take care of myself. In the family I grew up in and the Catholic school I went to, you either swim or you sink. I need help but I never learned how to accept gelp. I also feel that I can work if only someone really cared for me. I feel like the only thing I am missing is someone wanting anything from me.
I am also searching for the reason why I seemed to be someone to be tolerated instead of truly wanted. I have had people in my life claim they did want me but their actions differed. I was told my mother desperately wanted a relationship with me but she couldn’t be the mother I needed. I was criticised for rejecting her and being angry with her. I was told my father wanted to talk to me but didn’t pursue that communication. This is so upsetting to me. No one in that family could get help. Their idea of strong was to go out and do it no matter what hurt you are dealing with. Favoured was acting like hurt didn’t affect you at all. Many of them ended up not talking and having sad lives. The ones considered the strongest married into other families and didn’t talk about hurt. Didn’t understand talking about hurt. They painted a picture and that’s what the presented to the world.
I don’t know if men hate me or I hate them. I have had men for no reason talk down to me or acted like talking to me at all was a collosal chore for them. I have to analyse things to make sense of things. I don’t believe things come from no where. There are always reasons. So if a man talks to me with annoyance when I make pleasant conversation than I want to know why. Women have done this to me too in fairness.
I am angry that my father didn’t pursue a relationship with me, I am angry that I was hurt by men I trusted. I am angry that men only seemed interested in me physically while other women seemed held in a higher regard. I was bright and talented as well as pretty but I feel many women didn’t want me to be so they put me down and criticised me. Men seemed to follow that.
I am looking for the answer of why men haven’t pursued me. I don’t accept that it is what I am putting out there. I get treated differently than other women and I don’t accept that it is my fault because I have been friendly. I have been in moods but only after being friendly friendly friendly and nothing…I don’t believe it’s me. I believe I am being punished. It simply doesn’t matter how I act. I am alone either way. What I meant by serenity is if I accept the fact that no man wants me. I am not happy about that. I kust see no other way to deal with it. I can’t accept it. That’s my problem and why I suffer. If someone wants to prove me wrong go right ahead but no one wants to.
I believe in human connections as a beautiful reality with the knowledge that I’m part of it. Do you really know what that is like??
I am speaking to people in general when I adk that question. I still get things that happen that seem to happen to cast me in a bad light when I sit there minding my business unable to stop it.
I recently went to a concert where it was really hot and water was expensive. I broke down and bought two waters savoring the second one. A couple sat next to me and chatted with me. I had mentioned the price of the water just making conversation although the wife didn’t think it was that expensive. Trust me it was. Alot of people were getting up and down before the concert and they had left their seats for a bit. When they came back they were missing a large bottle of water and asked me about it. I told them I don’t remember seeing a bottle of water around their seats. I only saw her jacket draped over her seat. They got real quiet with me and of course I have to wonder why. I analyse again and wonder if they think I took their water. At this time I am really thirsty so I break down and I am willing to pay for another water. I would have bought them the next one if I wasn’t so thirsty. and they weren’t so expensive. When I couldn’t find anyone selling water going up and down the aisles I gave up. The concert was about to start and I didn’t want to miss it. There was another couple to my right who knew I was looking for more water. When the husband came back after leaving his seat with his drink he also bought me a large bottle of water. I thanked him so much and offered to pay for it but he told me not to worry about it. I was so grateful but I also thought, great now the couple to the left is going to think this is their large bottle of water. Two things here…coincidences seem to always fall in place too coincidently for me. This is just one example of many. Also married men or men in relationships often see me in distress and help me in some way. He didn’t have to do that and he thought of me but the woman bext to him gets to call herself his wife or girlfriend and I go home alone.
Idon’t want to be negative, in fact when I started this thread I was in a more optimistic mood about wanting things to change. I am in a spell right now of real negativity. I want to pursue this thread though. I have to find a way of solving my problem but it’s solving a complex puzzle for me. The answers aren’t clear for me as they seem for others. I am devastated that everything I had/ have are going to waste. It’s hard to cope when you are dealing with that. The last you want to hear is that it’s your fault when you feel you are profoundly rejected. Great, not only do I have to accept being rejected but I get to take the blame for it.
I often feel the need to”call out” perceived slights. I can’t stop people from slighting me but I feel I can let them know I know they are. Sometimes I wish I was clueless. Wish I didn’t see things others don’t. Wish I wasn’t aware. I feel I would be in a relationship right now if I was unsware of what goes on around me. I am ranting again but I am still feeling bitter about my life at this moment.
I thought I lost you Anita because it sounded like you weren’t very keen on what I wrote and were just wishing me luck finding someone. I wasn’t saying you weren’t responding and denying you telling me to take my time. I understand that I do have to find a path and can’t just go on. My stubborness for not accepting my responsibility in my situation keeps me from that path. I do accept some responsibility but I need to find the answer to the why I was eejected by some in the first place.
June 23, 2017 at 9:36 pm #154760LisaParticipantugh these typos!!! I am typing from my phone so it’s hard to read back my post in it’s entirety and then I can only edit so many times. My posts wouldn’t be so bad if I was on a laptop so I apologize.
June 24, 2017 at 5:54 am #154770AnonymousGuestDear Lisa:
I read your whole post of yesterday covering different topics. In this post, I will attend to the topic of why men did not and do not pursue you.
On June 15 I posted to you: “There are different possibilities to why men have not and do not pursue you: Maybe you discourage them; maybe when they look at you for an eye contact, you look away, and so they figure you are not interested. Maybe you often perceive that they criticize you and you express hostility and withdraw. Maybe you often look so distressed and unavailable that men figure you are not available for a calm, pleasant exchange. There are other possibilities, I am sure.”
In yesterday’s post you wrote: “I am looking for the answer of why men haven’t pursued me. I don’t accept that it is what I am putting out there. I get treated differently than other women and I don’t accept that it is my fault because I have been friendly…I don’t believe it’s me. I believe I am being punished. It simply doesn’t matter how I act. I am alone either way… If someone wants to prove me wrong go right ahead but no one wants to… The last you want to hear is that it’s your fault when you feel you are profoundly rejected. Great, not only do I have to accept being rejected but I get to take the blame for it.”
In my June 15 post to you, I did not assign you blame, which would indicate you doing something wrong. If a woman avoids eye contact with men, if she perceives criticism from a man when he does not criticize her and reacts by withdrawing, that is not her wrong doing either.
It is very unusual for a woman to have never been pursued by a man, not a single man, all through your adolescence, all through your twenties, your thirties, and at this point, most of your forties.
You believe that have not been pursued by any man because you are being punished.
Can you elaborate on this: who is punishing you by keeping men from pursuing you, why, for what aim?
anita
June 25, 2017 at 5:19 pm #154962LisaParticipantI wanted to post your quote about “it is very unusual for a woman to have never been pursued by a man,” but I cannot for some reason. I can not comment on how I percieve that quote because I am afraid I will lose my lifelines in here. No one ever wants to hear what people really think. Conversations are a dance and I am not always a good dancer.
In which case don’t really know how to respond because it will never be properly. The powers that be (men) have really found a way to step on women like me when they taken by surprise by our “outspokeness” years ago. Now they figured out how to step on women like me. Even recruiting other women to do it. I wish I could be successful so I could royally call every single one of them out. What else can I do? I am not giving in and play a role they have created for me. I wish other women were as sttong as I am and sidn’t let them get away with everything they get away with. They are weak because they can’t stand on their own.
I need to say this right now because I am devasted that I am a nothing in this despicable society and women are ok with certain women being nothing. I can’t win this so I can at least be angry about it.
I am not letting men off the hook and taking the blame for their hatred.
June 25, 2017 at 5:21 pm #154964LisaParticipantI am venting. I am given no way out so if I have to be imprisoned by men and the women that love them. When they can’t shut me up they silence me. If I was successful they couldn’t silence me.
They would certainly try though through ageism, pitting other women against me, insults, ignoring me, recycle me for someone younger, try to undermine my achievements.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Lisa.
June 25, 2017 at 5:32 pm #154970LisaParticipantI apologize again for the grammatical errors. They do nothing for my point but I needed to get that out and wasn’t concerned with perfection.
June 25, 2017 at 6:06 pm #154974AnonymousGuestDear Lisa:
What I read is the words of Strong Lisa, Lisa who can stand on her own, who will not submit, who will fight. Lisa the Fighter.
Definitely, Lisa the Fighter. I respect that about you.
anita
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