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Tee.
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December 8, 2025 at 2:46 pm #452759
TeeParticipantDear Anita,
I’m thrilled to hear that your depression has lifted and that even though you heard some disturbing news yesterday, you’re still feeling okay and keeping yourself occupied with cleaning the house and studying Tao 😊
And it’s nice that you were given the wooden sign with the Winery’s name on it. This, I hope, will be a nice memento of those 4 beautiful years…
Later on, after the cleaning+, I want to be involved in some volunteer work.. maybe helping older people who are facing the end of life.. Like in a nursery home.
I’m thinking of volunteering in an old people’s home, old being late 70s, 80s, 90s- to uplift them before they die.
Sounds great, and a very noble idea! 🤍 You can still be helping and volunteering, only in a different capacity. As you said, there are plenty of people who need help, plenty of causes that you can put your heart into.
I’m really happy you feel like you’ve found your true self and gained self-esteem and a positive self-image during these past 4 years. And also that you’ll never allow yourself to be a non-entity in your own life. Remember, your needs matter, your voice and opinion matter. You are equally worthy as anyone else! 🫶 🤍
I have photos and videos I took over time.
Perhaps you can develop a few of the best photos and put it in an album or hang it on the wall? To have that as another memento?
I’m happy you’re feeling better, Anita, that the pain is subsiding and the path forward is becoming more visible. I am rooting for you from the bottom of my heart!
🙏 🫶 🤍 🙏
December 8, 2025 at 5:08 pm #452761
anitaParticipantDear Tee:
And I am thrilled to get your message 🙏 🙏 🙏. I read it repeatedly and copied it for my records for keeping. I will reply further in the morning.
🙏 🫶 🤍 🙏
December 9, 2025 at 10:07 am #452779anitaParticipantDear Tee:
(I will not copy every part of your post because I already copied it in its entirety for my personal records)
“I’m thrilled to hear that your depression has lifted and that even though you heard some disturbing news yesterday, you’re still feeling okay and keeping yourself occupied with cleaning the house and studying Tao 😊”-
Thank you, Tee 😊 The recent weeks- long elevated anxiety has led me to pray daily, and the most recent, unexpected depression, has led me to explore spirituality, and that has helped lift the depression. This morning (3rd day of not being depressed 🙏), I had this strange thought (strange because I don’t remember ever thinking it, at least not with such felt- clarity), that I am body, mind and soul. The first two will die, the third will never die.
I do like the wooden sign and I may some day arrange for a photo album, thank you for the idea! Thank you also for the support and encouragement in regard to future volunteering to help people IRL.
“I’m really happy you feel like you’ve found your true self and gained self-esteem and a positive self-image during these past 4 years. And also that you’ll never allow yourself to be a non-entity in your own life. Remember, your needs matter, your voice and opinion matter. You are equally worthy as anyone else! 🫶 🤍”- Worth recopying!
I started to repeat your words about me (in an earlier post) as part of my daily mantra: “I am a good and worthy person, helpful and hardworking”.
“I’m happy you’re feeling better, Anita, that the pain is subsiding and the path forward is becoming more visible. I am rooting for you from the bottom of my heart!”- Thank you so very much, Tee (and I don’t think I thanked you for the white hearts 🙏
* I do wonder every day about how you are feeling, but I don’t want to ask just in case you’d rather not talk about it 🫶
🙏 🫶 🤍 🙏 Anita
December 9, 2025 at 1:30 pm #452793anitaParticipantWhatever comes to mind this early Wed (Dec 9) afternoon:
I feel great sadness (not depression), deep sadness, for saying- in my mind- GOODBYE to my mother. So much of my heart has been INVESTED in her- as a child, an adolescent, a teenager, a 20’s year-old, a 30-s year-old, a 40-s year-old, a 50+-s old- WAITING- A.L.L T.H.A.T T.T.T.I.I.I.M.M.M.E.E.E. for her to value me, to worthy me. To love me (tears in my eyes).
I feel sorry for me For waiting and waiting..
In my mind’s eye, right now, I still have the image of her as a loving person, one who CAN love me if only I get her attention in a big-enough way: become a movie star, become very rich. (Literally, these two things and nothing less).
But that image of her is an illusion. It’s just something I desperately NEEDED, not something that has ever been there for me (or for anyone.. not as an adult). Her childhood was horrific, and what resulted was a mother incapable of loving.
I kept imagining that what I needed so intensely was really there underneath the rage, the shaming, the relentless abuse.
This afternoon, I say goodbye to the dream, the image still lurking in my mind. I choose to thoroughly see her as she’s been all along- ever since I was born to her- no love, no heart for me.
To say goodbye to this stranger.
She gave me food and cake, clothes, toys, school supplies, bus money & 2 trips within the country- Thank you, mother. Thank you!!!
I wish her well as she transitions to.. The Source, the Tao.. God. I am so sorry you had such a terrible life. May you rest in peace, mother. May you REST in PEACE. I love you, always had. Goodbye.
(I will not discuss you any longer. RIP).
Anita
December 9, 2025 at 8:46 pm #452801anitaParticipantI was wrong, it’s Tues night, not Wed night. Losing count of days.
Was at the taproom this TUES night, saw the taproom owner. I think he perceived my anger last Tues night, about him never visiting. Nothing was said tonight.
Had a long conversation with a 30+ year old Byron about judgmental, rejecting mothers. (her experience, so many of us)
The SALE really did go through, at a loss.. yes, but money has been transferred.. so, the sale really DID go through. It really is DONE (tears in my eyes, part of me was hoping it wouldn’t)
So, Buyers’ money went through and distributed to old owners.. At a loss, but in a legal sense, it doesn’t matter. The money has been transferred today (Tues), so, really.. it’s really done.
Rode from the Taproom to home through the (former) Winery.. glanced just once to my right.. the (gone) Winery. Seems like it means to me EMOTIONALLY more than it meant to anyone. Day in and day out, 365 days a year, 4 tears (.. I meant Years) and a month.
My HEART is still there, Tee. I want to be there NOW.
I want to dance there NOW.
December 10, 2025 at 6:23 am #452805
AlessaParticipantHi Anita
I’m so glad that you got the sign for the winery. I think that your care for the place has been recognized and people know how much it means to you. 🤍
Your feelings are understandable. The legal stuff is another stage of this ending. Does it make it all feel real? 🤍
But only acknowledging if someone becomes rich, that’s not love is it? Even if hypothetically those things ever happened, it is not real care for a person, is it? It seems to be the things that are valued, not the person. 🤍
December 10, 2025 at 9:32 am #452813anitaParticipantHi Alessa:
Looking at the Real Spirituality thread, I just noticed that 2 days ago (top of page 6), I addressed you and Thomas in the same post. I know that you like to be addressed separately (and you address members separately). I apologize, it’s just that I forgot your preference in that one post
And it’s okay to make mistakes like these.. Okay for me, okay for you (Mistakes- for me growing up were NOT okay). Right, Alessa?
Thank you for your kind words regarding the winery.
Yes, the sale feels quite real at this point. It’s done.
She worshipped (highly valued) wealth.. and movie stars (she named me after one), so, of course, I wanted to give her what she valued so much. I attended acting classes, answered an add but of course, it didn’t happen. Tourette tics didn’t help, lol. But I tried best I could. Same with becoming wealthy.. in my clumsy, unskillful ways, I tried
🤍🤍🤍 Anita
December 10, 2025 at 10:58 am #452817TeeParticipantDear Anita,
wow, that was a deep and meaningful farewell from your mother…
You’ve realized that you’ve been waiting for something that would never come, even if you’d achieved an extraordinary success (something that she would in theory value): become super rich and/or become a movie star:
In my mind’s eye, right now, I still have the image of her as a loving person, one who CAN love me if only I get her attention in a big-enough way: become a movie star, become very rich. (Literally, these two things and nothing less).
But that image of her is an illusion. It’s just something I desperately NEEDED, not something that has ever been there for me (or for anyone.. not as an adult). Her childhood was horrific, and what resulted was a mother incapable of loving.
Yes, a covert narcissistic mother would have never truly valued you, even if you’d achieved that kind of success. Narcissistic parents always minimize their children’s success (privately, to their child, not necessarily in public). So I guess you too would have received something like “it was easy for you, you were given everything on a silver platter, not like me, who didn’t get any chance at success. My life was ruined early on, nobody gave me anything, while I was giving and giving…”
I can imagine you would have received some kind of self-pitying, and even your great success wouldn’t have made her happy. Neither happy nor proud of you…
She gave me food and cake, clothes, toys, school supplies, bus money & 2 trips within the country- Thank you, mother. Thank you!!!
If you can feel grateful for what she did give you – that’s pretty significant. In a recent podcast, Oprah said that she once (when she was already famous) had to give a speech praising her mother. And she had to think long and hard what to say, because her mother abandoned her. Oprah was raised by her grandparents (who were not very loving people). And then she realized that she can be grateful that her mother didn’t abort her. That she gave her a chance at life.
Oprah also said something profound about forgiveness:
Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could have been any different, it’s accepting the past for what it was, and using this moment and this time to help yourself move forward.
And it makes sense. It’s basically the definition of radical acceptance: giving up the hope that the past could have been any different, that our parents could have been any different, that our lives could have been any different. Radically accept everything that happened in the past, and use this moment – the present, the here-and-now – to help yourself move forward.
If we radically accept, we’re free from wanting that things be different (those things that cannot be different). If we keep longing for something that we can never have (at least not in that form, or from that person), we become attached to that. And it’s an unhealthy attachment, which Buddha was talking about (“The root of suffering is attachment.”)
So if we radically accept, we free ourselves from this unhealthy attachment that causes suffering. Radical acceptance is the antidote to unhealthy attachment. And to suffering.
Sorry if I’m stating the obvious, but it just kind of clicked for me what unhealthy attachment is, and what is its antidote. From what I can say, you’ve been doing a lot of radical acceptance around your mother recently, and it helped you to detach yourself from that years-old longing and to let her go…
I’ll reply to the rest of your posts a bit later.. I’m glad that the sales went through, although not glad that the place had to be sold in the first place… But yeah, nothing to do about it but practice radical acceptance, and “use this moment and this time to help yourself move forward.”
🙏 🫶 🤍 🙏
December 10, 2025 at 11:46 am #452819anitaParticipantDear Tee:
“Sorry if I’m stating the obvious”- even if you were stating the obvious, the way you state things is uniquely clear and original. This reminds me of your very first post on tiny buddha were you explained Attachment:
“Dear Felis… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the attachment theory, which talks about different attachment i.e. bonding styles between the parent and the child, which then affect our adult relationships as well. If we had secure attachment with our parents, we won’t be that clingy and needy, and will be able to give the other person room to breathe, so to speak, and allow them to have their own interests and hobbies, which might not always involve us.
“If we didn’t have secure attachment, there are two scenarios: 1) we will either become very clingy and anxious, constantly fearing that we’ll be left alone, or 2) we become afraid of intimacy and closeness, and want to be left alone, especially when the other party is clingy and insisting on intimacy. The first is the so-called anxious attachment style, which would be yours, and the second is the avoidant attachment style, which seems to be your ex boyfriend’s style… “. (Feb 18, 2021).
On the same day I wrote to you: “you explained attachment theory exceptionally clearly, clearer and simpler than what I read anywhere else, particularly the struggles of the person with anxious attachment…”.
Fast forward to today, this really is a talent that you have. Even if I had to listen to an audio of you explaining things (which is difficult for me), it wouldn’t be difficult because of the uniquely clear/ talented way you explain things.
I will respond to your recent post later 🙏 🙏 🙏
🤍🫶 🤍 Anita
December 10, 2025 at 12:11 pm #452820anitaParticipantDear Tee:
“Yes, a covert narcissistic mother would have never truly valued you, even if you’d achieved that kind of success. Narcissistic parents always minimize their children’s success (privately, to their child, not necessarily in public). So I guess you too would have received something like ‘it was easy for you, you were given everything on a silver platter, not like me, who didn’t get any chance at success. My life was ruined early on, nobody gave me anything, while I was giving and giving…'”-
Okay.. you WERE there!!! I was not alone, or better say, I am not alone.
“I can imagine you would have received some kind of self-pitying, and even your great success wouldn’t have made her happy. Neither happy nor proud of you..”- Yes, yes, I now know this to be true. Of course.
“If you can feel grateful for what she did give you – that’s pretty significant. In a recent podcast, Oprah said that she once (when she was already famous) had to give a speech praising her mother. And she had to think long and hard what to say, because her mother abandoned her. Oprah was raised by her grandparents (who were not very loving people). And then she realized that she can be grateful that her mother didn’t abort her. That she gave her a chance at life.”-
If I could go back in time, I would choose her aborting me simply because it’d be way, way less painful to be aborted and it wouldn’t take long. So, I am not grateful to her in this regard.
If I could go back in time, I would have much, much preferred to receive minimal clothing and one old toy would be enough to being guilt tripped about the things she gave me, all.. that she did for me, etc.
When I thanked her in the earlier message for the food, clothes, etc., I thanked her for these things in isolation, as in (the unreal) context of not having been guilt- tripped about it.
“Oprah also said something profound about forgiveness: “Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could have been any different, it’s accepting the past for what it was, and using this moment and this time to help yourself move forward.” And it makes sense. It’s basically the definition of radical acceptance: giving up the hope that the past could have been any different, that our parents could have been any different, that our lives could have been any different. Radically accept everything that happened in the past, and use this moment – the present, the here-and-now – to help yourself move forward.”- Amen!!!
“If we radically accept, we’re free from wanting that things be different (those things that cannot be different). If we keep longing for something that we can never have (at least not in that form, or from that person), we become attached to that. And it’s an unhealthy attachment, which Buddha was talking about (“The root of suffering is attachment.”)-
See the parentheses you added? That’s the clarity I mentioned earlier, the full nuance.
“So if we radically accept, we free ourselves from this unhealthy attachment that causes suffering. Radical acceptance is the antidote to unhealthy attachment. And to suffering… it just kind of clicked for me what unhealthy attachment is, and what is its antidote. From what I can say, you’ve been doing a lot of radical acceptance around your mother recently, and it helped you to detach yourself from that years-old longing and to let her go..”-
I am letting her go. I know I wrote earlier that I will not discussing her anymore (something like that), but I’m taking it back. Ill discuss her for as long as I need to discuss here (it was a part of me that felt I was betraying her, as I perceived her dying from old age, by continuing to talk about her negatively that caused me to say that).
“I’m glad that the sales went through, although not glad that the place had to be sold in the first place… But yeah, nothing to do about it but practice radical acceptance, and ‘use this moment and this time to help yourself move forward.'”- Thank you, Tee!
🙏 🫶 🤍 🙏 Anita
December 10, 2025 at 2:22 pm #452825AlessaParticipantHi Anita
It’s honestly okay! Please don’t worry. 😊
I wouldn’t even use the word mistake, that would imply doing something wrong, which you haven’t. 🤍
It seems to me that your mother would shame you just for existing, not even having to make a mistake. It must have been really hard when that happened. 🤍
I’m definitely more relaxed talking to you now. It has as always, just been really busy for me recently. 🤍
I was about to thank you for thinking of me in that thread as well, but I can do it here. Thank you for your kindness! Actually, I appreciate that you have been very thoughtful and supportive. It was very kind of you to research information about nurseries. It is just so busy that I don’t always have time to respond to all messages.
I am on a quest to respond to Tee and Peter at the moment.
I’m still mulling things over. It’s been another busy day. I did an exam and helped my sister look for her lost cat. We did find him! Hurray. 🙏
It makes sense that the winery means so much to you. It seems like it was instrumental for you in overcoming your social anxiety? Would you agree? I think such a place which can make you feel so safe and welcome after everything you’ve been through is very special indeed. 🤍
I think you’ll be great helping people in a hospice. 🤍
December 10, 2025 at 2:24 pm #452826AlessaParticipantOh I forgot to ask, would you like me to start my messages with dear? I don’t usually, but I’m also not attached to Hi, it’s purely just habit. 🤍
December 10, 2025 at 6:31 pm #452828anitaParticipantDear Alessa:
I addressed you as “dear” right above because as I read your two messages, I felt affection for and closeness to you, and for me, “dear” is way closer than “Hi”. But like you often say, we are all different, so please use what suits you, whatever feels right to you. “Hi Anita” is perfectly fine with me. If you’re okay with it, I’ll keep addressing you as Dear.
Thank you for telling me to not worry and that you wouldn’t even use the word “mistake” 😊 🤍
“It seems to me that your mother would shame you just for existing, not even having to make a mistake. It must have been really hard when that happened. 🤍”- you said it just right, for EXISTING!
“I’m definitely more relaxed talking to you now. It has as always, just been really busy for me recently. 🤍”- I am so GLAD that you are more relaxed talking to me!!!
“… It was very kind of you to research information about nurseries. It is just so busy that I don’t always have time to respond to all messages.”- I understand, Alessa, thank you for letting me know!
“It’s been another busy day. I did an exam and helped my sister look for her lost cat. We did find him! Hurray. 🙏”- hurray for finding a lost 🐈
“It makes sense that the winery means so much to you. It seems like it was instrumental for you in overcoming your social anxiety? Would you agree?”- I never thought I had social anxiety. I may have, but it never occurred to me. The reason I didn’t talk for the longest time is that I was conditioned to not talk by my mother. She exercised full freedom to talk (to me and to others) but BANNED me from talking. So, I was quiet a whole lot- when with her 1-to-1 and when with others. In her presence, she banned me from talking to others; outside her presence, I was afraid that what I’d say will reach her (she said it will).
WouldI think such a place which can make you feel so safe and welcome after everything you’ve been through is very special indeed. 🤍”- I have to admit, wine helped me talk.. It’s called “wine therapy” for a reason. I am not recommending it, just saying it lowered inhibition and led me to talk and dance (when live music was playing.. and sometimes dance a bit even without live music).
“I think you’ll be great helping people in a hospice. 🤍”- Thank you, I would very much like to do that!
🙏 🤍 Anita
December 10, 2025 at 7:56 pm #452829anitaParticipantWhatever comes to mind (because there’s more to understand):
I was not aware before typing the above post. only an hour ago, that I was actively silenced.
Remember, Tee, uncle Morris asking me a question, and she sitting to his right, smiling at me threateningly, as in “Don’t Dare Answer”?
It was not just with him, on that one occasion.
Remember, after guests left, she complained to me about them taking advantage of her, and I suggested, angrily (empathizing with her big-time), that I would tell them to stop.. and her response: “I will murder you (if you say anything to them)”?
And then there was a cousin to whom I said something in private (don’t remember what it was), and the mother told me, paraphrased: “I found out what you said her; I will always know what you say to other people (you traitor!)”
What I had to say throughout the silencing, but couldn’t, vibrated through me as tics.
She talked SO MUCH. And she literally forbade me of speaking.
When the father visited me after the divorce, she never stopped talking to him while I sat there silently. He visited me..? I just sat there Quiet.
When a school peer visited me that one time, the mother talked to her non-stop, while I stood there silent, not a word.
I wasn’t aware of the Silencing Factor before.
The layers of abuse are so many..
This is why I’m so drawn to speak, speak and be heard here, in these forums. Why I speak here A LOT..?
Anita
December 10, 2025 at 11:08 pm #452831TeeParticipantDear Anita,
You asked me about my health, and thank you for your care 🤍 Well, it’s not the best, but it’s not awful either. There are new issues that I hope to deal with in due time… my feelings are a roller-coaster, but I manage to self-regulate eventually and come to a place of peace and acceptance.. in short, it’s not easy, but it’s manageable 🙏
Okay.. you WERE there!!! I was not alone, or better say, I am not alone.
haha 🙂 not exactly, because I haven’t achieved success in life, at least not material success, so she didn’t say those things to me. But I saw it in various youtube videos, the experts on narcissism were good at portraying how a covert narcissistic parent would react to their child’s success.
If I could go back in time, I would choose her aborting me simply because it’d be way, way less painful to be aborted and it wouldn’t take long. So, I am not grateful to her in this regard.
When I thanked her in the earlier message for the food, clothes, etc., I thanked her for these things in isolation, as in (the unreal) context of not having been guilt- tripped about it.
Right, I totally understand that you didn’t thank her in general, for giving you life, but in isolation, for those material things she gave you. But they were always contaminated by guilt-tripping, and it’s hard to be grateful for a poison-laced cake…
As for being grateful for being born, there are spiritual teachings that claim that we (our soul) actually choose our parents. Because we need to learn certain lessons. I’m not opposed to this theory, because for me it’s easier to think that in the big scheme of things, I’m not a victim, even if I’ve experienced abuse. Of course, it doesn’t exculpate our parents from bad parenting, but it helps me see everything that’s happening as somehow necessary for my soul’s growth.
But I also understand that some forms of abuse are just too much, and I have a hard time accepting that it would be necessary for anyone’s growth. So yeah, it’s a mystery to me, but I find it easier to believe that I’m not a victim because it helps me not to get stuck in the victim mentality and actually do something to help myself…
Had a long conversation with a 30+ year old Byron about judgmental, rejecting mothers. (her experience, so many of us)
That’s great that you can have an honest conversation with someone at the taproom! I guess it feels good to feel understood and validated…
Was at the taproom this TUES night, saw the taproom owner. I think he perceived my anger last Tues night, about him never visiting. Nothing was said tonight.
Okay, so you’re not on speaking terms at the moment? Or just the perfunctory greeting, but nothing more than that?
Rode from the Taproom to home through the (former) Winery.. glanced just once to my right.. the (gone) Winery. Seems like it means to me EMOTIONALLY more than it meant to anyone.
My HEART is still there, Tee. I want to be there NOW.
I want to dance there NOW.
Yes, you did say that the winery felt like home to you. Working there gave you fulfillment and meaning, I guess it met some of your core emotional needs? You said wine helped you talk (and dance)- so as you socialized with people in the winery, over a glass of wine, you felt free to express yourself and less afraid of their judgment – something you never had with your mother?
even if you were stating the obvious, the way you state things is uniquely clear and original. This reminds me of your very first post on tiny buddha were you explained Attachment:
haha, thank you, Anita! 🙂 Actually, for the longest time, I had a problem understanding the Buddhist concept of non-attachment, because I know there is also healthy attachment, which is a healthy bond between a parent and a child, or a healthy bond between partners in a romantic relationship.
I think attachment is the cause of suffering if it is unhealthy – if it means clinging to something that cannot be, or to ego-driven goals. But it’s not unhealthy to be in a loving relationship, which is actually based on a healthy (i.e. secure) attachment. So I think attachment is not always unhealthy, but clinging and grasping is.
🙏 🫶 🤍 🙏
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