Dear Anita,

“Turn around and look at what you see”- Turning around, I see… I see the Hope for a New Story.

A story breaking away from the old story.

So happy to hear that! ❤️

Another inspiring verse from the song:

In your hands
The birth of the new day

A new day, free from the false narrative, embracing the truth of who you really are, not who you mother conditioned you to believe you are… I’m happy that you’re seeing the prospects of that new day and the new story unfolding before you ❤️

The word “slave” is sinking in, strangely the word never occurred to me until you brought it up.

I just thought slave as in you were her possession, she did with you as she pleased…

She never expressed to me any concern for the fetus-me not being adequately fed, nor did she express anyone else voicing such a concern to her. You are the first person in MY WHOLE LIFE to bring up this concern!

I guess I’m not surprised that she hasn’t expressed any concern for you either as a fetus, or as a baby or beyond (specially not something that would indicate a mistake on her part, a lack of care for you). But I’m sorry that no one else mentioned anything, or at least not that you know about it, e.g. your father, or perhaps one of her sisters (although it would be no surprise if her older sister, the one who abused her, didn’t show any concern…).

I guess she grew up in very deprived conditions, with no maternal (or paternal) care. Her older sister – who became her caretaker after the orphanage period (if I remember well) abused her, so again, she received no care and empathy there either.

And so she didn’t have it in her: she didn’t have the capacity for empathy, neither towards herself (which is visible from starving and hating her own body), nor towards others, including her own children.

My intention is not to reject a compliment, but truly it was not a feat at all. I mean, really, sincerely, I am sure of it. Not only there was no comfort in the zone.. it was not even familiar. There was nothing at all in her behavior that I could rely on. She could have exploded at any time in a very scary way. Although it happened too often, it never got to be “familiar”.. no comfort in predictability, not to any extent.

Oh I see, there was no predictability and no comfort in any aspect of your relationship with your mother. There was nothing to hold on, so to speak, nothing safe. So for you, venturing out to the US wasn’t such a scary idea at all.

I believe a part of it may be that you were a bit dissociated, so you didn’t even think of what might go wrong – you just bought the ticket and off you went, hoping for something better, better than what you had at home, I guess?

She shot daggers of shame from her eyes to my heart, a big ouch every time.

Yep, that’s familiar… 🙁

“And you sank into depression, and soon saw to annul the marriage..”- I did sink into depression. He came up with the annulment.

Oh okay. Yes, you said that after she went home (and already during her stay), you felt horrible and fell into despair. You left NYC (and I guess your new husband) and flew to New Orleans, “for no particular reason other than hoping for a relief.” And you stayed there for a while. I guess that’s when he decided to ask for annulment, right?

Right. She wasn’t pleased when I sent her ALL the money I had at one point, 17,000 dollars (decades ago). After a couple of years she sent it back to me because she said it wasn’t enough. (Your thoughts, Tee?)

Yeah, unfortunately another proof that you could never please her, that you’re never enough, no matter what you do.

A covert narcissistic mother cannot really accept gifts – she cannot accept an honest gift from your heart – I think because she would need to open her heart and receive your love (a gift being an expression of your love). And she cannot do that: she has to believe that you don’t love her and that it’s only her who loves you. In her twisted mind, she is the one who gives, who loves, while you are the faulty one, the undeserving one, whom she nevertheless “loves” and provides for.

She gives, you receive, because she believes you’re unable to give, you have nothing to give. That’s I think the twisted reasoning behind the covert narcissistic mother rejecting our gifts. Not sure it’s true, but it might be…

This makes me feel like I am not alone, like I was never alone 🙂 (even though it felt like it). Don’t get me wrong, I wish you didn’t experience any part of what I did. It’s just that I no longer feel alone in that experience.

I’m glad my experience is helping you ❤️ It took me years to understand this dynamic, it was so insidious. I’ve only started to understand in the last couple of years… Aah, I feel heavy just thinking about it. But okay, it’s much easier once you understand it and don’t fall for their pity party to easily…

Yes.. EXACTLY. You understand me so very well. Thank you! (I felt stupid for missing something so obvious)

That’s because I’ve experienced such situations, not in interpersonal relationships, but in everyday life, when I start catastrophizing and thinking of the worse, when there could be a number of other, more benign reasons why something is happening. But fear blinds us to other, more trivial or more benign possibilities, and we only imagine the worst.

Yes, I believed her. She was quite convincing. Even adults (like in the elementary school setting) did not challenge her. She stopped shaming and threatening the music teacher only when she ran out of steam, only when she exhausted herself.

Wow, that’s bad that no one even tried to tell her to calm down. They just took their yelling and screaming without saying a word. What was it that she was upset about? Maybe there was some truth in what she was saying (and that’s why the music teacher felt intimidated?), but the way she was saying it was completely inappropriate.

But it can also be that many decent people don’t know how to react in such situations (when they are verbally attacked), and they are kind of shocked and taken aback, and can only gather their thoughts later.

“Because you believed her threats and you felt bound, even paralyzed, by fear..”- she pointed to her wrists, showing me where she would make the cut, with a knife.

Oh that’s horrible. I think that’s an example of coercive control, which Copilot mentioned in its analysis. She controlled your behavior by threatening to kill herself. She forced you to behave in a certain way by threatening suicide… appalling 😕

I read in the other thread that your back is doing better, but you are having problems with your knees, but you’ve got a plan. My best wishes are for you, Tee.

Thank you, Anita ❤️

Like I said before, I’d climb a very, very tall mountain if it’d take your pain a way.

Magical thinking, I know.. but I would climb a mountain for you!!!

That’s sweet of you to say, but I suggest you better spare your knees – you want to have them working smoothly for decades to come 🙂 But thank you anyway, you’re a sweetheart ❤️

❤️ 🫶 ❤️

Hi Anita

How are you doing? ❤️

Sorry I’ve been quiet. You and Tee were having a sensitive discussion and I didn’t want to intrude.

Thinking about you and wishing you well! ❤️

Dear Anita,

you indeed are a sweetheart for offering to climb a tall mountain for me ❤️ But I do have some reservations about it, and here’s why:

Actually, I read that walking uphill is very healthy for the knees because it strengthens the muscles you suggested I should strengthen. Therefore, as if it’d be a win-win, I will climb a mountain for you, and a tall one. just give me the word 🙂

Walking uphill does indeed strengthen the thigh muscles, however there is a trade-off there, since climbing high mountains puts the strain on the cartilage too. And since you said you might be suffering from an early-stage osteoarthritis, I wouldn’t recommend causing unnecessary stress on your potentially sensitive knees.

I really have empathy for everyone with arthritis, and if you’re lucky to be only in the early stages (where further damage is preventable), I’d definitely recommend to be careful: so mild hills yes, but tall mountains no 😊

In the new story, Tee, I get to be the main character.. huh, and ❤️ is the theme!

Yess! Lots of love and acceptance for yourself – that’s the name of the new game 😊 ❤️

Again, it feels like you were there. your attention to details, what I consider to be your superior intelligence, your insight, your empathy.. All these make me feel this way, that you were there and that I was alone there.

Well, I’ve experienced some of the things you have (though to a lesser extent), and so yes, I was “there” in a way, meaning in a similar dynamic, experiencing some of the same wounding. And I’ve also learned a lot about the subject, read other people’s testimonies etc.

So yeah, I know a thing or two about it… not that I’m glad about it, but it does come handy now 🙂 In any case, I’m glad you feel heard and validated ❤️

You remember correctly.. although I don’t think her oldest sister was a caretaker in any way.

Oh okay. I thought she became your mother’s caretaker, or guardian, after your mother was released from orphanage. So I assumed that she was first placed in an orphanage, as a baby or a small child, and then later, when she was old enough, was given to her older sister to be her official guardian. But I guess that’s not how it happened?

I’ve said it to myself countless times during the years and decades: I have come across selfish, abusive, heartless people but none- in my personal experience- as threatening and abusive as she has been to me.

Hmm.. it just occurred to me that many narcissistic people pretend to be loving and kind in public. So I guess we often don’t know how the person really is in private (with their own children and spouse, in particular). I don’t want to defend your mother in any way – since she indeed was horribly abusive to you. I’m just saying that there might be other mean and abusive people out there, whom we don’t know about – because they don’t show it to the outer world. They only show their true face to their “loved ones”, i.e. the people who love them.

But it’s also true that your mother had not only narcissism, but other disorders too, and so her behavior was pretty extreme. Again, not so much in public (except for a few of those escapades), but in private, behind four walls…

I was very dissociated. It’s only in the last couple of months or so, that I noticed.. a lack of dissociating. What a relief! The feeling that I wasn’t there, that nothing was happening to me.. that derealization, I think it’s called.

Yes, I guess derealization is a protective mechanism, not to feel the pain so much. But I’m glad you’re noticing that you’re dissociating less than before. That’s a very good sign, Anita!

She shot daggers at you too.. Covert daggers (the indirect kind), Overt daggers? I am sorry, Tee.. Daggers Hurt, particularly from “”mother””.

From time to time she would make hurtful comments, to me in private, not in public. So those would be overt daggers, I guess… And yes, daggers hurt, specially coming from our mother…

As I read this, I remembered.. I REMEMBER, I collected wild flowers for her. I was somewhat excited, looking at the beautiful, multi-colored flowers, anticipating handing them to her and her being happy.

I remember somewhat.. I remember the hit of her anger, her disapproval as I handed her the flowers. She reacted as if I insulted her. What did she say (It was so, so very long ago.. but I vividly remember the flowers sparkling under the spring sun above).

What did she say? .. Something about those flowers meaning nothing because there were so many of them all around, that she could have picked them herself, on her own.

I’m sorry, Anita, that was so hurtful – she rudely rejected your heartfelt gift, something you gave her as an expression of your love for her! 😢 And she told you: it’s not good enough, it’s worth nothing to me, I could have picked it myself!

That was a massive dagger to your heart, Anita! 😢

My mother wasn’t as cruel, but I remember she wasn’t exactly the type of mother who liked to show physical affection. She was old school, believing that showing too much affection would spoil the child (she inherited that thinking from her mother, who was very cold and strict with her).

As for gifts, I remember once, already in my adulthood, I brought her a heart-shaped souvenir. And she rejected it, asking me “well, what am I supposed to do with it?” I got really upset about it, and then she changed her mind and accepted it. However, she didn’t apologize, but blamed me for overreacting. So yeah, that was a dagger too… rejecting her daughter’s heartfelt gift…

The best I figure, the music teacher- during class- made fun of me, calling me “auntie” (as in me being too serious, too “old” for my age, I figure). Svika, a boy in that class ran the short distance, to tell the mother. She walked there, getting the teacher out of the classroom, while all pupils, all teachers, standing outside, watching.

Okay, that’s an interesting dynamic: first, the teacher was indeed wrong for calling you a derogatory name, so I kind of understand why he (or she?) just stood there, without saying a word.

It’s interesting to me that this boy, your classmate, ran to inform your mother about the incident. Does that mean that he knew she is strict and sort of aggressive, and so he wanted to cause a scene by involving her? It also means he wasn’t afraid of the music teacher at all…

“Mother” should have bonded with the music teacher over making fun of/ humiliating me.. But “Mother” wanted all exclusive rights to humiliating me.

Following the whole fiasco, “Mother” didn’t comfort me, of course.. She was offended by being overshadowed by the teacher..?

Possibly, yes, but I’m also thinking that you being publicly humiliated by a teacher meant a personal humiliation for her too. Because you said that there were instances when she would praise you in front of other people, e.g. saying that you’re an excellent pupil, when you weren’t and things like that. So perhaps that was a narcissist in her experiencing public humiliation vicariously, through you, which caused her narcissistic rage to awaken.

Also, maybe she was expected to react with anger (since your classmate ran to inform her – perhaps hoping to provoke a scene?). So perhaps that was her public image – someone who fiercely defends her daughter against any kind of humiliation by other people? Not because she cares about her daughter (although others might not have known it), but because her own narcissism wouldn’t allow her to tolerate to be humiliated vicariously?

But none to take me away to safety. Maybe safety was too scarce back then.

I’m afraid that in that situation, she might have seemed as “mama bear” protecting her cub. And because the teacher was wrong to make that derogatory remark, and perhaps was afraid of facing disciplinary action, everybody just stayed silent – because they were afraid of possible consequences.

Huh, she cut her head off the photos.. Her heart was cut off long before, as in literally No Heart 4 Me.

She hated herself – that’s why she cut her head off the photos. And since she hated herself, she couldn’t love you either. No heart for herself, no heart for you either 🙁

This is why your “❤️ 🫶 ❤️”, particularly you being a WOMAN means so much for me.

I’m happy to share those hearts with you ❤️

If I brought you 🌼🌻🌹🌷🌺, I know You’d gently take them off my hands, and with a smile, you’d bring them up to your face, smell them, and I’d see your smile extending.. And I’d know I’ve done something good (tears in my eyes).

Sure, I’d never refuse a heartfelt gift (provided that it doesn’t involve potentially self-harmful actions, such as climbing tall mountains with bad knees 🙂 ) Picking wild flowers on gentle slopes is much more acceptable 😂 😊

❤️ 🫶 ❤️

Dear Anita,

I officially withdraw my offer to climb a mountain 😂

I’m relieved to hear that! 😊 And I’m glad that Copilot agrees with me and has suggested alternative ways to strengthen your thigh muscles. But it seems you really wanted to climb that high mountain, right? (“Sadly, for me, Copilot agrees with you wholeheartedly”) I hope you’re not too disappointed about it…

Love and Acceptance for myself. Lots 😊 ❤️

Very good to hear that! ❤️

Yes, indeed, Tee knows a lot about it 😊, AND you are able to articulate and explain it all better than anyone I’ve ever come across in my whole life, a few therapists included.. and by far!

Thank you, Anita, for your kind words ❤️

Not quite. She had a terrible early childhood because of the traumatic time her family suffered when they immigrating in the early 50s to Israel, living in tents in horrible conditions they didn’t expect. Next her mother died at childbirth when she was 9, her father turned to women and alcohol. Sometime during that time, she was sent to an institution (not an official orphanage, a place for children with no one to care for them). She wasn’t “given” to her older sister, I don’t think. Nothing was organized back then. She just ended up with her oldest sister who shamed her terribly. The mother had a “good” shaming model.

Oh I see… so her mother was alive until she was 9. But then she suddenly became orphaned: first her mother “abandoned” her, then her father too. And perhaps the wound from being abandoned by her father – who instead of taking care of his children, turned to alcohol and women – was even greater than the one caused by the loss of her mother, I don’t know.

But in any case, there must have been a strong abandonment wound, and also a strong sense of worthlessness, because the child believes that it’s their fault when the parent abandons them. And then came her older sister’s shaming (and possibly poor treatment in the orphanage) on top of that.

So I can kind of understand where that sentiment to cut her head off photos came from… she must have felt unlovable and worthless. So worthless that her own father abandoned her, and she went from having a family to having no one within perhaps weeks or months.

Of course, none of that excuses her behavior with you later. Her own brother reacted differently to a similar kind of trauma. But nevertheless, I see the roots of that… and where it can lead when the person doesn’t acknowledge it (doesn’t acknowledge their own wounding), but instead starts blaming others.

Yes, I understand and I agree. Yet, what I was referring to were people who were clearly abusive to me, people who took advantage of me for their selfish advantages. In comparison to even those people, SHE was a Hurting Champion. No one “better” at it, no one more effective at delivering emotional injury.. again and again. Those emotional daggers. In a twisted way.. she deserved a medal.

Oh I see, you’re talking about people whom you knew in private, whom you were closely related to. And she was able to cause more hurt than any of those selfish people in your life…

Yeah, I can imagine that. You called her behavior vicious, and based on what you’ve shared, it definitely was. It wasn’t just a “regular” shaming, but telling you such cruel things that cut deep into our heart and soul.

In my view, one such vicious remark was telling you (when you were a small child) that she told your father that he should have sexually abused you as a baby, since he was such a womanizer. For me, that’s like the next level of cruelty and heartlessness.

She said it to punish him for cheating on her, but she didn’t have any regard for you, and how such a remark can impact a child. And I can imagine that in many other instances, as you said, she had absolutely no limits as to how hurtful, how deprived her remarks were. I can imagine she went for maximum hurt, for the worst possible impact, and she delivered it with pleasure, being satisfied that she’s hurt you so successfully. That’s already sadism…

BTW, it occurs to me now that she might have had a significant trauma from her father abandoning her for other women. And so she might have found a similar man, your father, who might have been a womanizer himself (if her allegations were true) and who, unfortunately, abandoned you and your sister after they got divorced (if I got that right?).

I apologize if I’m jumping to conclusions here, and also if this is something you don’t feel comfortable talking about… But perhaps she relived a part of her childhood trauma again with her husband? And if her trauma has never been processed, she would have been punishing her husband, being really mean to him, and telling him horrible things – to revenge for having been hurt and abandoned by her own father.

And she seems to have been punishing you too, being really mean to you, because her heart became so hardened, that she had no love in it for anyone, including herself. What remained in her heart was hatred, it seems, and this hatred was driving her to be mean to you, to cause as much hurt as possible, to become sadistic almost…

Perhaps that’s how a person becomes a “monster”? By hardening their heart to the point of hatred and revenge…

I don’t feel dissociated at all. Not the way I knew dissociation. I remember, somewhere in the U.S., I was walking and didn’t notice and before I knew it, a big truck, I mean huge, commercial truck almost ran me over. I just didn’t notice. My current ongoing lack of visual memory may be part of an ongoing dissociation.. brain damage, more likely.

Oh yes, I remember you mentioning it before: about it being pure luck that you didn’t get run over by that truck! I don’t remember if you talked about it, but you were probably upset about something, you were “beside yourself” (what an appropriate expression!), and your ability to pay attention to your surroundings was even less than usual.

I don’t think that your inability to remember certain things in your surroundings (like whether your bathroom has windows or not) necessarily indicates brain damage. It might rather point at dissociation or even preoccupation with our own internal processes, which as a result has the inability to recall things from our environment.

I used to be like that too – very bad at remembering things in my physical environment – because I was preoccupied with thinking what will people think of me, how I come across… I had this constant toxic shame about myself, and so I was focusing on myself, on my internal discomfort and anxiety. And this prevented me from actually paying attention to other people or my physical environment.

Do you feel that similar might be true for you?

I am feeling empathy, affection for little girl/ adolescent Tee.

Thank you, Anita ❤️

Those were not LUXURY flowers, those one would by in a store. … My heart was.. not luxury in her mind 😢

Oh I see… your mother was a lover of luxury, and so simple things didn’t really make her tick… And since her heart was hardened, she couldn’t receive a gift from your heart… that concept was strange for her… and so she had to reject it and even humiliate you for trying 😢 A heart of stone, unfortunately…

One of the most difficult memories for me was when she held my hand (I was mid/ later 20s) on the way to the airport where I was to fly (alone) to the U.S.). She placed her soft, warm hand on mine.. and I wanted to exit my skin, exit my body so to not feel that softness, that warmth.. It felt intense, very intensely negative. Any idea what that was about, Tee?

I guess you knew that her seemingly loving, caring and supportive touch is none of that. You knew her true self, and that her touch was insincere. Unless she was supportive of you going to the U.S. (because it was linked to her dream of becoming rich?), and so in that brief moment, that touch was to express support for you?

Again, never crossed my mind, but since you mentioned it, yes, he wanted to cause a scene. He knew of the mother being aggressive. Generally, yes, he was a trouble maker in school.

Okay, so she was known as aggressive and perhaps someone who can be easily provoked? Perhaps there were instances in the past where she “defended” you? Perhaps against his bullying, or another kid’s bullying? So he knew that she would likely be provoked this time too, and so he didn’t want to miss that scene…

But yeah, her defense of you was most likely her ego being hurt by public humiliation. And so she lashed out at the teacher, to restore her “good name.” Something like that. She didn’t care about you, and your feelings being hurt, but about herself and her feelings…

Maybe the teacher felt guilty. As to consequences for calling me “auntie”- from the principle or so- I doubt it. There was no protect-the-child policy .. Unless you break the child’s bones, literally 😞

Oh I see – so it was allowed to shame pupils – no one cared and no one would get sanctioned. Yes, I guess those were different times, where children were treated much more harshly both by their parents and their teachers. Nowadays, at least the standards for the teachers have changed…

No Heart= still human?

Yes, heartless human. Or better say, a human whose heart has turned to stone. I believe the person could still choose to unlock their heart, but their defenses stop them. But the heart – the ability to love – still exists somewhere underneath those layers of defenses. At least that’s how I see it…

Never a meeting of the minds.

Or a meeting of the hearts rather? Her heart was closed, turned to stone.. and it couldn’t receive you.

She was a stranger to you, because she refused to see you and receive you. And to be seen and received in her vulnerability, her humanity…

At the same time, she was more than a stranger, because a stranger might be neutral towards you, whereas your mother wasn’t. She was unfortunately against you – because she needed to prop herself up. She was against you, as a defense mechanism. But nevertheless, her defense mechanism caused you a great deal of harm.

I know it’s hard to navigate this, Anita. I’m just offering my perspective, hoping that it helps somewhat…. I’m glad you seem to be healing from some of it… 🤞 ❤️ 🙏

❤️ 🫶 ❤️

Hi Anita

Thanks! I don’t think you are a monster by the way. Not at all. ❤️

I think the word monster is dictated by the severity of what is done. Anger is not the same thing at all. You are a naturally kind and caring person. You would never have started writing here if you weren’t. Your mother is entirely different to you. ❤️

It is interesting to learn about how your mother came to be in an orphanage. I’m sorry that because of the things she had been through, you never had a mother capable of caring for you and loving you. Not because of you, but she is incapable of caring for another person. Not even capable of caring for herself. You dealt with horrible abuse at her hands and it wasn’t fair. No matter how much she tried to justify it.

It is understandable, for this to be imprinted in your mind. Severe abuse is very hard to shift, especially when it comes to parents. ❤️