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Mark.
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December 17, 2017 at 6:19 am #182561
Anonymous
GuestDear Em:
What you described is not an Ethnic issue but a Dishonesty issue: he is not an honest man: he lies, doesn’t keep his promises, flirts with another woman. I am not surprised you are no longer attracted to him and that you are angry at him, these are the natural consequences of his lying, not keeping his promises and so forth.
What does a woman in your situation do with that anger(Can’t not feel angry in this situation, as far as I can see)?
anita
December 17, 2017 at 6:37 am #182565Inky
ParticipantHi Em,
I would keep him as a stay-at-home dad and revisit separation when the kids are in college/adults. We know he’s not good with paperwork, whether from the school papers to files, so if he does return to work, it should be at a job where he just has to show up and not deal with paper/processing files at all. If he doesn’t, like I said, stay-at-home dad.
As for the flirting/texting, that is just the frustrations/fantasies of the stay-at-home parent. This other girl won’t go there. Going to be terribly un-PC here, but no woman will have an affair with a (sorry) stay-at-home-dad (sorry not sorry, stay-at-home dad who I wouldn’t have an affair with back in ’04 LOL!). Let him have his fantasy, OR take away his cell phone (she who makes the money makes the rules), OR let her have him! It would do you a favor maybe!
Good Luck!
Inky
December 17, 2017 at 6:39 am #182567Anonymous
GuestDear Em:
You asked for the reader’s thoughts. I have more thoughts:
It is difficult and distressing to be physically intimate with a man you are appalled by, angry at, so I wouldn’t.
Reads like his dishonesty does not bother him, he is not conflicted or distressed by it, so he is not motivated to change. Without distress, no motivation, so a change is very unlikely.
Anger cannot and will not be ignored. It has to express itself somehow as yours already has. The children are likely to pick on it, as well as on your guilt for expressing your anger.
It is not always better for parents to stay together for the sake of the children, not when they fight, not when anger is felt in the household, tensions, guilt, distress.
anita
December 17, 2017 at 8:48 am #182579Em
ParticipantThanks so much for replying.
I don’t argue with DH anymore… maybe once a month at most. We essentially shadows living under the same roof with a platonic relationship.
We are happy around the kids, but other than that we have nothing to talk about.
He was a stay at home parent when he was laid off – it was very stressful for me because things just werent getting done at home and I didnt have time after doing OT and getting hours. If it wasn’t for my mom, I wouldn’t have been able to do it.
He is very kind and has some sense of responsibility. Very good to the kids. I am very conflicted.
December 17, 2017 at 8:57 am #182581Anonymous
GuestDear Em:
Conflicted about whether to continue to live as is or separate, is that the conflict, specifically?
If it is, you can list the pros and cons for staying as-is and the pros and cons for separating, is you’d like, and I will give you my input, my perspective.
Or, are you still hoping for a change in the relationship?
anita
December 17, 2017 at 9:17 am #182583Em
ParticipantHey anita,
I’m conflicted about whether to separate or not.
Pros:
– I won’t feel tied down
– he will know where we stand in the relationship
– I can leave if I needed to
Cons:
– he’ll be hurt, really hurt
– it might make the situation worse due to bitter feelings
– he might ignore the terms we agree to causing more turmoil
That’s all I can think of for now. I don’t know if a change is going to fix anything. I’m unhappy but I don’t let that affect the children and I don’t take it out on him. We just go about our day doing what we need to. I feel guilty for wanting to separate. I won’t abandon him, I’ll still support him as best as I can but I don’t want to be tied to him as a lover any more. We aren’t lovers. We’re just two family members trying to live life as best as we know how.
December 17, 2017 at 9:25 am #182593Anonymous
GuestDear Em:
I will read and reply to your recent post (and anything you might want to add to it) in an hour or two.
anita
December 17, 2017 at 11:28 am #182611Anonymous
GuestDear Em:
You were willing to see a marriage counselor with him, it is a good idea for you to see a counselor individually so to resolve your conflict.
Regarding your guilt: it is only right for him to suffer (or enjoy) the consequences of his own actions. Lying to you, not acting for the benefit of you and the marriage has its consequences. Not a good idea to protect anyone from the natural and understandable consequences of their actions. Your guilt seems unjustified to me and is something to resolve with a quality counselor/psychotherapist.
Children are way more perceptive than most adults give them credit for. They are likely to perceive tensions in the household regardless of your best efforts. You can ignore and push anger down best you can, but anger will not ignore you and will come up somehow, again and again… and the children will notice.
Reads to me that you are afraid of what he may do because of his bitter feelings and not cooperate with the terms of separation: if he hasn’t been violent so far with you, he is not likely to become violent. If he needs you financially, he is not likely to not cooperate with a separation or a divorce. Who knows, he may be afraid of you not being as accommodating to him as you were so far, he has lots to lose if he doesn’t cooperate.
Remember action and consequences: let him know of the consequences of possible lack of cooperation on his part.
Will soon be away from the computer for about sixteen hours. If you post again I will reply when I am back.
anita
January 22, 2018 at 1:57 pm #188173Mark
ParticipantEm,
You said you don’t want a divorce because you care for him like a family member. That may be true but he is someone you don’t want as a husband which is different from being a family member. Your pet dog is a family member. Your Uncle Bob is a family member. You still care for family members without being married to him or living with him.
My view to your statement of making a vow to your husband is that a marriage vow is a commitment not a prison sentence. Nothing is forever for life changes, people change. It’s a contract that can be renegotiated in my opinion because of what changes. I think that the Buddhist view is that everything is temporary, i.e. “impermanence” and attachment is the cause of suffering.
You listed Cons on why you don’t want to divorce him. One is that he’ll be really hurt. First and foremost you are not responsible for his feelings. Second you are worried what might be, i.e. that there will be bitter feelings. You mean him having bitter feelings, not you? Again that is his responsibility on how he views that and how he handles it. He has played a big part in the reason why you want a divorce. Your third reason on why he might ignore the terms of the divorce is another “what if” scenario. That reason is why you have a divorce lawyer.
I work on living my life from love rather than fear. Your Cons are from fear. Your Pros are out of love for yourself.
Good luck,
MarkJanuary 25, 2018 at 7:28 pm #189077Em
ParticipantThank you for this.
My cons are from fear. I worry about my children and their well-being; I’ve read and witnessed the potentially negative impacts the separation may have on our children – they weren’t given a choice. Fear that I had not yet given my all towards the repair of the relationship. A lot of “what ifs” to consider. This decision isn’t one I make likely due to the many lives it impacts.
That being said, I’m confident now that I have given it my all. I did love him unconditionally or should I say conditionally? What I mean is, I didn’t expect him to provide me anything physically, financially, or materialistically – whatever he was capable of giving me I gladly embraced. The only thing I desperately needed was his trust, respect and support. Perhaps my love is conditional; how does one change that…?
I wrote a separation agreement, 50/50 everything: time, money, kids, and debt. I think that’s fair to him, to myself, to our relationship. I watched his reaction as I told him, his eyes betrayed his facade – he was hurt, I felt hurt and sad that I hurt him. He didn’t want to sign the agreement nor does he want to now, but that’s not within my control any more.
I still love him and I will still be there for him – no matter what; I just don’t see him as my life partner.
Will I ever find a life partner? Silly question.
January 25, 2018 at 8:04 pm #189091Mark
ParticipantEm,
I know from my divorce that my children came out better. They even told me that did not see me and their mother as compatible. I have set an example of taking care of myself, being happier and being able to walk away that was not healthy for me. I hope I showed them that it is not good to stay in a relationship that does not make sense so they can learn and apply that for their relationships.
I believe there are different kinds of love. We can love humanity unconditionally. I believe we should love people conditionally else we let ourselves be victims or allow to be stepped on without assigning responsibility to the other. I also believe I can love someone from afar where I don’t have to be in relationship with them.
I wish you a gentle exit and a future of healthy and mutual loving partner relationship Em.
Mark
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