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April 13, 2024 at 12:26 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #431659TeeParticipant
Sorry, bad formatting. Here it is again:
Dear Paradoxy,
here are my thoughts on suppressing emotions…
We’ve already talked about your father and how he believes that emotions are bad and should be suppressed. Since women aren’t able to disregard their emotions so easily, and are more prone to be lead by emotions, I think he believes it makes them less rational, less smart, and therefore, more stupid. He believes that “succumbing” to emotions causes them trouble.
As we have established, your father doesn’t want to get in touch with his emotions, and so he accepts a worldview where emotions are bad and inferior, and where he, with his “pure logic”, is superior. Consequently, women too (as more prone to be governed by emotions) are inferior to men, who are (or should be) governed by “pure logic”.
Unfortunately, you have experienced on your own skin how logic can be twisted. Because B was twisting logic: she was claiming that sleeping around isn’t cheating, as long as on the day of cheating she is officially not in a relationship with you. Even if she was with you a week before and a week after having “gone astray”.
This logic was unfair to you, it was hurtful, but you couldn’t find a way to dispute it (“I don’t know how to argue with the technicality”), because indeed, she wasn’t with you on the days she slept with another man.
You couldn’t dispute this “logic”, which is focused on “technicalities”, without taking into account the emotions: your emotions, to be more precise, and your pain. You were being treated unfairly, you were emotionally abused, but the logic said: “she hasn’t cheated”. But your heart knew the truth: that she hurt you. And that you were in pain, because of her.
Your father used logic too, without considering your emotions. He could shut you down, using pure logic:
my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic.
And it seems B too could shut you down too, with her twisted logic. She could disable you and you didn’t know how to fight against it.
Because your father taught you not to fight against it – he taught you that emotions are not important. So you couldn’t just say “she is hurting me, I am leaving.” Because that’s not an “argument” for your father. Emotions are simply not an argument.
So this is my take on how suppressing emotions can lead to a twisted, heartless logic. It’s not even logic, but a kind of reasoning that excludes the heart and emotions. It’s a false reasoning… technical reasoning, perhaps, which disregards the heart of the problem (pun intended).
April 13, 2024 at 12:21 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #431658TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
here are my thoughts on suppressing emotions…
We’ve already talked about your father and how he believes that emotions are bad and should be suppressed. Since women aren’t able to disregard their emotions so easily, and are more prone to be lead by emotions, I think he believes it makes them less rational, less smart, and therefore, more stupid. He believes that “succumbing” to emotions causes them trouble.
As we have established, your father doesn’t want to get in touch with his emotions, and so he accepts a worldview where emotions are bad and inferior, and where he, with his “pure logic”, is superior. Consequently, women too (as more prone to be governed by emotions) are inferior to men, who are (or should be) governed by “pure logic”.
Unfortunately, you have experienced on your own skin how logic can be twisted. Because B was twisting logic: she was claiming that sleeping around isn’t cheating, as long as on the day of cheating she is officially not in a relationship with you. Even if she was with you a week before and a week after having “gone astray.”
This logic was unfair to you, it was hurtful, but you couldn’t find a way to dispute it (“I don’t know how to argue with the technicality”), because indeed, she wasn’t with you on the days she slept with another man.
You couldn’t dispute this “logic”, which is focused on “technicalities”, without taking into account the emotions: your emotions, to be more precise, and your pain. You were being treated unfairly, you were emotionally abused, but the logic said: “she hasn’t cheated”. But your heart knew the truth: that she hurt you. And that you were in pain, because of her.
Your father used logic too, without considering your emotions. He could shut you down, using pure logic:
<p style=”margin-left: .5in;”>my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic.</p>
And it seems B too could shut you down too, with her twisted logic. She could disable you and you didn’t know how to fight against it.Because your father taught you not to fight against it – he taught you that emotions are not important. So you couldn’t just say “she is hurting me, I am leaving.” Because that’s not an “argument” for your father. Emotions are simply not an argument.
So this is my take on how suppressing emotions can lead to a twisted, heartless logic. It’s not even logic, but a kind of reasoning that excludes the heart and emotions. It’s a false reasoning… technical reasoning, perhaps, which disregards the heart of the problem (pun intended).
April 12, 2024 at 12:42 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #431650TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
Yes Tee, I understand, there is nothing wrong about your harshness. I was just afraid to face reality.
I am glad you didn’t find it offensive or inconsiderate. But yes, unfortunately the truth can sometimes be harsh.
Regarding the half-naked photo, I think your assumption that she could have slept with him is actually right:
I confronted her and she said it was one of her exes, the one who she still had feelings for. She did not imply anything about sleeping with the man. I am the one saying that she COULD HAVE slept with him, and she could just be lying to me by not giving the details of what happened on that day, cause she was naked with only a towel wrapped around her. Everyone has hormones and if she was sexually stimulated enough by her ex, she COULD HAVE slept with him.
She said he still had feelings for him, and you later realized that he had feelings for her too (because he was jealous of you). So what do you think happened when they reconciled and she told him she still loves him? I am pretty sure they didn’t remain platonic, and then, after they’d presumably abstained from sex, they made a photo with her naked, wrapped only in a towel.
I mean, it’s pretty clear what happened. She actually told you that indirectly, but she also said it doesn’t count, because you were broken up in those few days. You said that’s her logic: even if you break up and reconcile every second week, sleeping with someone else in between wouldn’t be cheating, according to her. So it wasn’t “technically” cheating. But I am pretty sure it happened.
But then, when she talked about it a year later, suddenly they didn’t sleep together…
I don’t remember recalling events more favorable to her. I am considering all the factors that are playing in the situation.
Okay, here it is. On April 8, you asked:
Is it still considered cheating if she only slept with the man AFTER we broke up? Even though preparations were made WITHOUT her knowledge?
However, in your very first post, on March 20, you said that the preparations were made with her knowledge. You said she knew where the money was coming from, but didn’t want to tell you:
SHE KNEW BEFORE IT HAPPENED THAT THE MONEY WAS COMING FROM A MAN AND SHE DID NOT TELL ME WHEN SHE FOUND OUT.
Also:
The aunt told her about the married man when B and I started dating. So she was already in a healthy relationship when she learnt about the married man. And when the suggestion was made, she already told me that her aunt wanted her to do it and we had already discussed how wrong that was and it was obvious that I did not want her to do it and she had agreed.
And:
It so happened that her aunt had been giving her money for several months, which she had told me before but I told the fact that her aunt is giving her so much money is weird because no one gives money like that without expecting something in return.
So she clearly knew about her aunt’s plan – she even told you about it. And when the money started coming, she knew where it is coming from. But she didn’t tell you, although you were suspicious about it.
So that’s what you said on March 20, in your very first post. But on April 8, you said that the preparations were made without her knowledge. I mean, she knew about her aunt’s plan, she was receiving money beforehand…. there wasn’t much unknown to her.
That’s why I thought that either she changed the story, or you started remembering it differently, to be more to her favor, because that was a part of self-deception. You wanted to believe her so badly, to make her seem innocent, and so perhaps you started remembering things differently?
We do have a counselor here but that is the last thing I want right now. The only place where I get to rant is here. Besides, I have priorities. I find comfort in making music now as it is what I wanted to do more than med, and I find that good enough for now.
Good to know you’re finding comfort in making music! Perhaps some day, soon enough, you’ll decide to see a counselor too.
I can’t even confide in the close friend of mine because everyone is human, I can’t just rant to him like that. He most likely wouldn’t want to support me in that manner. That is why I said I have no friends. He is literally all I got and I am pretty sure he is tired of my drama cause I tell him most of the time whenever B and I break up only to get back together.
I understand. He might not know what to say or how to support you properly. But you can tell him that you broke up with B (this time for good) and that you’re pretty devastated. But I guess you’ve already told him that?
I am just disappointed that everyone was right about her.
Yeah, sometimes it makes sense to pay attention, if everybody is telling you the same. But it’s hard, it often takes a big disappointment and disillusionment, before we can see the truth.
I believed she would be the exception to the stereotype everyone (not my parents) kept describing.
Yes, that’s hard – to believe you’ve managed to find a good woman, who doesn’t fit the stereotype, only to fall into one.
Actually, I think the stereotype your parents (and everybody else) taught you consists of two parts: one part of the stereotype is that women do stupid things (women “overthink” and “don’t listen”, as you expressed). And the other part of the stereotype is that most modern women are gold-diggers and/or immoral.
I think you didn’t completely adopt the second stereotype – you didn’t completely believe that all women are gold-diggers. You thought there are exceptions (and you thought B is one such exception). But you completely believed the first stereotype: that women tend to do stupid things, or behave stupidly. And that’s what made you believe that B’s behavior is stupidity, rather than manipulation. So believing in Stereotype No 1 blinded you to B’s true nature.
That’s why I said that a part of your healing should be to get rid of those stereotypes, i.e. false beliefs about women.
If you have more things to say, might as well finish it off in this thread because you never know when we might talk again.
Yes, I wanted to write some more about how suppressing emotions leads to believing that women do stupid things, i.e. to Stereotype No 1. I’ll try to get to it soon.
Thank you for all the advice and support you have given me.
You are most welcome, Paradoxy!
TeeParticipantHi SereneWolf,
thanks, I am fine, my back is better again, so I feel good. Hoping that it will last… (a praying hands emoji)
Yes that’s what I try to tell my inner self like no matter what I’ve been through I didn’t lose hope in humanity and connections. Then have some love for yourself.
I am happy you haven’t lost hope in humanity and relationships. Because there are wonderful people out there, not everybody is like your father, or even your mother. So yeah, cheers to good people and good, healthy relationships! 🙂
And I am glad that people at your new workplace, including your bosses, seem super cool:
I’m finished with my onboarding, It wasn’t that long, But I’m still learning their ways, I really like that they’re not rigid about certain ways If I like something my way I can do it that way. But they’re humble enough to show like here’s what we think is the most efficient way.
That’s fantastic, SereneWolf, and it means so much! That they give you the freedom to do it your way, if you find it better. So it’s not like receiving top-down orders, which you need to follow, but they give you a degree of freedom and independence. Which is exactly what you cherish, isn’t it?
Yes I do think it’s like that I don’t perform good if I’m not attached to it emotionally. But It was also because of my people pleasing behaviour, Like I didn’t wanted to disappoint my parents. But nonetheless later on I did, After 4 semester (2 Years) I put a stop to that college.
Yeah, I know what you mean. They wanted you to study in that field, and you wanted to please them. You tried, but it wasn’t working out. It’s good that you decided to put a stop on it eventually. Even if it meant hard decisions, like getting a job and supporting yourself.
But you’ve managed to make up for it all: you’ve earned your Bachelor’s and now you’re doing a Masters in the field you like. So it all turned out well…
And I’m kinda proud of myself since They already gave me an assistant (She’s also intern doing Masters in sustainability) in just 2<sup>nd</sup> week because during the talk they didn’t say I’d have manage anyone. But they trust me enough even taking on consulting projects. So my work is more diverse towards Product analytics and Consulting side as well.
Congratulations on getting an assistant and being entrusted with more demanding projects!
And another cool thing we’re all in different time zones. That means no unnecessary meetings.
Hahaha 🙂 True to your introverted nature 🙂
And talking about it it makes me remember this point. Is this why I’m also not impressed with anyone’s educational qualities now? Or just not impressed with anything that much. Like huh. Good. So what? Am I becoming my father?
Hehe, well, your inner critic is very similar to your father. It is your father’s internalized voice. But you know, it’s a good sign that you can be proud of yourself (you just said you’re proud of getting an assistant). It’s a sign that your inner critic couldn’t spoil the party – couldn’t tell you “so what?”, or “big deal”. Seems you are getting out of its grip, which is a very good development!
And Yes I’m trying to be vulnerable with friends, Just a recent example, My friend’s friend reached out to me and wanted talk even though another friend told me how she is opposite of what I like, She smokes, she’s dramatic and her anger is always on the edge. But I didn’t said no. I saw it from a different perspective this time we talked till 2am. I tried to understood why she’s the way she is and I noticed that it’s just her coping mechanisms, At heart she’s kind and loving woman.
Okay…. was it like a date? I must admit, it got me worried a little that now you’ll go into the opposite extreme of being open and receptive to everyone, without discernment. And kind of “try to understand” this girl, who might have anger issues… which might not be the best predictor for a healthy relationship. I mean, in case you are considering dating her…
Sorry if I am preaching, I just wanted to say that you don’t need to like everybody, you don’t need to suddenly drop all judgment. In fact, the ideal would be not to be judgmental, but to still have discernment. Anyway, I felt the need to mention it, just in case 🙂
Also I’m not judgy like I used to be. Before I’d be like hmm this person and labels them now I try to understand first and I don’t try to fix them or at least urge to fix them is gone.
Good to hear that you don’t have the urge to fix the person. You can simply observe and see whether they are (in this case, whether she is) compatible. If you like her and don’t feel like changing anything major on her, that’s a good sign.
April 12, 2024 at 2:27 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #431625TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
The more I talk to you, the more aware I become, the more broken I get
I am very sorry, Paradoxy. I was rather harsh, specially in my last post, because I was trying to break through the thick veil, where you still wanted to find excuses for her and ascribe her behavior to stupidity and naivete, rather than manipulation. I was trying to tell you: don’t you see?? she is fooling you! Get away!
But I am very sorry for what happened to you. Yes, she was manipulating you, and I actually found a “proof” that she was lying about the half-naked photo too. I’ll present it to you now, just in case she ever comes back claiming she was never lying and that it was all a “misunderstanding.”
So on March 20, in your first post, you wrote that she admitted (back when it happened, in Nov 2022) that the man in the photo is her ex, whom she briefly got back together with, since she still had feelings for him:
I confronted her when I realized she deleted it and she told me it was the ex that she still had feelings for, and it happened on the day after that we broke up from the decision that its better to not date at all. Obviously I was hurt and I broke up with her in that moment of pain but then I decided to take her back on the technicality that we were still broken up when this happened, so I cannot accuse her of cheating. She got forgiveness on a technicality.
So basically she admitted to having slept with him, but you forgave her since on that particular day you were broken up, right?
But then a few days ago, on April 9, you said that she later gave you a different explanation of the photo:
She said that on the day she took the picture and video with her ex, she was actually in her towel with her ex’s sister who was removing her braids but when she got busy, the ex’s sister told the ex to remove the braids for her and so she just allowed him to remove her braids for her. Keep in mind that she was naked, but she had the towel wrapped around her body so her naked body is not visible to her ex.
So now, according to this version, she claimed that she didn’t sleep with her ex, but that he was only helping her with her braids.
So when the half-naked photo was originally taken, sometime in November 2022, she admitted she slept with the guy in the photo. Only you didn’t know at the time that this guy was also living with her, as her housemate. But then a year later, when you found out that the guy in the photo is actually her housemate ex, she told you a different story: that she didn’t sleep with him, but that he was only helping with her braids.
In other words, she was lying…
You probably forgot what she said a year ago, and so when she came up with this new explanation, in which she presented herself as innocent, you believed her. And she got away with a lie.
I can imagine there were more examples like that. You actually said it yourself that you don’t remember exactly what happened more than a year ago, which is only normal:
the issue is I don’t know the exact dates of her “cheating” and she said she doesn’t remember and since it has been more than a year, even my memory is not that accurate.
I found another example, related to the prostitution case, where you in recent days remembered the events more favorably for her than what you stated in your first posts, some 3 weeks ago. Perhaps as you were arguing about these events in recent days and weeks, she was coming up with new versions of the story, different than what she told you even 3 months ago.
So it seems to me that she was twisting the story all the time – to make it more favorable for herself – and you couldn’t follow it any more. And you wanted to believe her, and so you did.
Anyway, I hope that you see now that she wasn’t innocent and oblivious, but unfortunately wanted to deceive you.
Now everything feels fake. What if every moment we had was manipulated? What if all the happy moments I had were fake? What if I was being used the entire time? The realization is breaking me. I want to cry.
I hear you, Paradoxy. She was fake, I mean she wasn’t honest with you. She might have liked you, but she had her own demons and her own crooked ethics, which she learned from her aunt and probably the rest of her family too. That’s not an excuse at all – so please don’t see it as an excuse and a reason to reconcile. Because she did hurt you immensely.
But it is a lesson, a learning experience, as you say. And you had this important lesson early in your life, at only 19. If you learn from it and heal what needs to be healed, you can have a much healthier relationship sometime down the line.
You can still find a loving and caring woman to be your wife. But in order to do that, you’ll need to do two things: 1) heal the emotional wounds from your childhood, and 2) update your view about women – get rid of the false beliefs.
But what now? I have no one. Not my parents. Not my friends. I am just all alone. Like I was, once before. My suffering is all for me to bear.
Dear Paradoxy, I hear you, people on this forum hear you. You are not alone. And also, it would be important to have someone with whom to release and process your emotions. Please talk to a counselor, if you’ve got one at college.
I want to cry. I want to release my pain but I have exams and other things to worry about. In a week, I will be traveling to my parents’ place again and I cannot show them my grief cause they will ask questions.
Your urge to cry is understandable. You do need to cry it all out. But you’re right, it wouldn’t be good to show it in front of your parents, because you’d probably only get judgment and scolding from them. They would hurt you even more. So no, don’t show your pain to them. But show it to someone you can trust. Perhaps to the close friend of yours, whom you confided in about your fights with B?
But the best would be to express it to a counselor. Because they are professionals, they know how to “hold you” and contain you as you express your pain.
You don’t have to be alone in this, not this time. You were alone and helpless as a child, but now you can help yourself, by seeking people who can understand and who can help you. A counselor, primarily. And it’s good that you reached out here too, baring your soul, even though it wasn’t easy.
I feel like God gave me this experience to teach me to be careful what I should wish for.
Well, I believe you had this experience to learn and heal, as I said above. Please don’t use it to make false conclusions, neither about yourself nor about women in general. You can come out of this a new man, a healed man, who is ready for a healthy and a truly nurturing relationship. So use this opportunity for good: for growth and for healing.
I am here, if you need to talk. I have more things to say, but I’ll stop for now. I hope to hear more from you, as you start a new phase.
I know it’s hard, it’s excruciating to have your dreams crushed like that. But you know, what you had with her was a house built on sand. Now you need to build it on a solid rock… and as I said, that requires healing…
TeeParticipantHi Beni,
I think I was strong for my mom. My mom tells me that I was really intense.
In what sense were you intense?
I think you had a simillar struggle if I remember right.
Well, I always tried to console my mother, i.e. explain why she shouldn’t be so negative, why things are not so bad as she sees them (and I never succeeded). But that was already when I was an adolescent and in my early 20s. As a child, I wanted approval, I was a good kid, a good pupil. But I never got approval, e.g. I was never praised for my good grades. Instead, I was scolded if I got a B instead of an A. So I was supposed to be perfect.
I also don’t remember super much. It’s hard to differentiate between analyzis and expirience.
Do you remember at least something from your childhood? Do you remember more from your teenage years?
I notice that I’m cold to my mom when I feel vulnerable like I do not send emojis then. I don’t trust that she can handle it then. Like she would get high on it.
I think I was strong for my mom.
Okay, so when you feel vulnerable, you don’t have the compulsion to please her, to “console” her, to make her less sad, right? Because I am guessing (based on what you said about her earlier) that she tends to complain a lot and would like to receive sympathy from you. And she would “get high” on it, i.e. it would only confirm her martyr stance, right? But you don’t want to take part in that game of her playing the martyr, and so you are cold with her. You are not giving her sympathy, right?
When you say that as a child you were strong for her, maybe it means that you didn’t want to express your own sadness or upset, not to bother her with it? Because she was burdened with her own stuff anyway. Maybe that’s when you rather smashed the window, or hit your own head, or got in tension with your younger brother?
So she wasn’t able to meet your emotional needs, and then you suppressed those needs in front of her, but then acted out in different ways, like smashing the window, having tension with your brother and suchlike. Is that what happened?
You know what Gabor sais, it’s what’s not there. Empathy and the ability to express how you feel, really listen with the heart. I do not remember my parents doing that.
Yeah, “what is not there”. It’s emotional neglect. What you’ve experienced from your parents is probably emotional neglect. Your mother didn’t have the capacity to soothe you, to regulate your emotions, because she couldn’t do that for herself either. And you say your father was rarely home, and I guess not really emotionally available (even when he was home)?
BTW how did your parents react to you smashing the window, getting in tension with your brother etc?
Telling me how they feel or having these moments of connection much. Even nowadays it’s difficult and often I create it. I meet people who tell their parents are like their best friend and that’s how I imagine is how it can feel when you can express yourself both ways.
Well, when we are children, we are “takers” – we need our parents to emotionally soothe us and be there for us (not the other way round). And that’s how the emotional bond is established. So we are takers, we receive, and they give. They give us love, support, care, understanding.
At least that’s how it should be, with healthy parents. But often our parents are not emotionally healthy and mature, and they’re not able to meet our emotional needs. Your parents were like that too (and mine too).
For people who had healthy parents, they have established that emotional bond of trust and unconditional love, which is always there. And so as grown-ups, they can share everything with their parents: their worries, dilemmas, whatever is on their heart… and their parents will be there to listen and help if they can. With no judgment, no blaming, no manipulation.
And indeed, those parents are their children’s best friends. But that’s rare, or at least it’s not too frequent. According to some studies, around 50% of children in the USA are securely attached, i.e. have that secure emotional bond with their parents. And maybe that’s even too high of an estimate, I don’t know. So probably at least 50% of people you see around don’t have that bond…
Mhh, yeah I do that and it seems to be wholesome. I still think the mentioned situation is in a way superfiscial but honest and authentic. It often feels not deep enough.
I feel that I long for a partner.It’s a different level. Being kind to a stranger in the park is not the same as opening up to someone in all your vulnerability. In that sense it is “superficial”. But it is serving a purpose of you being true to yourself and doing acts of kindness – something that your heart is telling you to do. As you say, it’s honest and authentic. So it counts. But it’s a different level, of course.
I think love couldn’t be received emotionally by my parents as much as I needed it or was toxic when given.
Yes, it seems they couldn’t provide that emotional support for you. Perhaps they weren’t abusive (e.g. criticizing you harshly, or shaming you and humiliating you), but they simply didn’t pay attention to your emotional needs. So yeah, it would be emotional neglect.
Yeah, that’s what I want most in live. So, simple. Thanks for the support Tee ,<3
You are very welcome, Beni! <3
April 10, 2024 at 1:32 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #431509TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
And she didn’t gaslight me, she just said that she thought the fact that the guy was her ex felt unimportant to her
She already agreed that she would not wear the less revealing outfits, and barely did it too but she tends to have the habit of forgetting things too easily
She has a habit of considering things to be not as important as they actually are, which means she thought it was okay to have a casual hug with men; she thought all she had to do was not partake in one of those more intimate hugs
So if someone slaps you in the face, but then says “I thought it wasn’t important not to slap you in the face”, and then apologizes, and then keeps slapping you in the face, and apologizing… what would you think of this person?
She has been slapping you in the face all this time, pretending she is oblivious, she “wasn’t thinking”, she “forgot”, she “didn’t think it was important”…. when in reality, she has been lying to you, manipulating you and making a fool of you.
You believed that she is oblivious and too “stupid” to understand those things. And your belief (which you adopted from your parents) that women tend to “do stupid things” actually came as a boomerang: because you believed she too is innocent and stupid, rather than manipulative and calculating.
Basically, the false belief that you have about women blinded you to the fact that this girl is manipulating you. That she isn’t some silly oblivious woman, whom you need to teach the right manners, but in fact a very good actress and a manipulator.
she apologized and told me she was just ranting her feelings in anger and she didn’t mean it,
She always apologizes, but then keeps doing it. That’s why I told you: those are fake apologies. She knows if she apologizes, you will be naive enough to forgive her, and it will all stay the same: she behaves the way she likes, and she gets to keep you as her financial backup.
Because that’s what she’s been doing all this time: taking your money and even convincing you to invest in some financial schemes, in which you lost a lot of money (we lost a lot of money in trading too). And whatever little you earned, went to cover her health expenses (she got severally sick or she had to get her tooth removed or something).
Now, after knowing the situation a bit better, I am almost sure that this girl doesn’t want to lose you because you are giving her money. You have been financially supporting her for most of the time that you were together. And she doesn’t have anyone else to support her, because it seems her father is not giving her money, and her aunt… well we know under what conditions she can get money from her aunt. So she depends on you financially. And that’s why she is so keen on keeping you around.
She still says that what she did in January is not cheating because we had broken up in that one week and that it is none of my business because we were not dating
You were breaking up and reconciling all the time. It was your pattern – you always reconciled after a few days or a week at most, haven’t you? You even broke up and reconciled around Christmas 2022, when you were visiting your parents, and she was visiting her aunt who lives in the same area. The reason for the breakup was that you asked her the gold-digger question, but a few days later you already reconciled:
But a few days later we realized we could not live without each other and we got back together.
So let’s put this into perspective: she knows you have a turbulent relationship, with constant breakups and reconciliations. But after one such breakups, which is similar to the others, and which is most likely only temporary, she suddenly starts feeling so “depressed” and “heart broken”, that she falls for her aunt’s evil plan and goes and prostitutes herself. For 3 days out of 7 that you were broken up. And then you reconcile and you travel back together to college (if I understood the chronology of the events well?). As if nothing happened.
Go figure. I am actually having a hard time comprehending this. But what is for sure is that she wasn’t too affected by her stint with prostitution, since she later acted as if nothing happened.
Oh and by the way, if you were only broken up for a week, but she kept messaging with the guy for a while afterwards, and even developing feelings for him – then this would be cheating on her part, wouldn’t it? If we want to be super “technical”.
She still says that what she did in January is not cheating because we had broken up in that one week and that it is none of my business because we were not dating
So if you break up every second week, and she goes to sleep with another man each time you break up, it would be none of your business either? And she would be called loyal and faithful?
April 9, 2024 at 4:06 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #431462TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
My gf might have lied to me and slept with another man, but I didn’t know all of that until a year already passed. So for most of the relationship, she never showed me her bad side.
Okay, let’s see whether this is true….
This is what you knew about her before Christmas 2022: you knew that she had feelings for her ex, due to which she broke up with you. You knew that during that time of being broken up, she took a half-naked picture with some guy, for whom she was claiming wasn’t her ex. So it would have been a 3rd guy that she was involved in, in a short time span (later you found out it actually was her ex). And you also knew that her ex was her housemate, and that she was hiding it from you, and when you found out about it, she claimed that it wasn’t something you needed to know.
So just this behavior of hers: that she was hiding an ex in her house (for whom she admitted she had feelings for, and who had feelings for her too, because you said he was jealous of you), and then gaslighting you that you didn’t need to know about it – is a huge red flag. Not only a red flag, but something that warrants the red card (in soccer) – exclusion from the game. This behavior – which you were aware of before Christmas 2022 – should have been a reason to break up with her for good.
But you fell for it, you fell for her gaslighting and her excuses. And you still thought very highly of her, even after that incident:
excluding some moments where she does stupid things, she was actually a very good, loyal, loving, caring woman that any man would desire. She displayed all the characteristics that I was looking for in a good wife, excluding the stupid things that most woman do, like overthinking and not listening etc, which I did not mind cause I knew it was normal for women.
You saw her as caring and loyal, when frankly, I think her behavior with you was obnoxious. It wasn’t something to be forgiven, especially the part where she arrogantly claimed that you didn’t need to know about the housing arrangement with her. But you still saw her as good, caring and loyal.
And I think it’s because you were blinded by the idea of her as your perfect wife, and the physical aspect of your relationship (not just sexual, but also massage, touch, her taking care of your hair, cooking and cleaning for you). I think the idea of the “perfect wife”, which you adopted form your parents: cooking, cleaning, taking care of her husband’s physical needs, might have prevented you from seeing other aspects of her personality.
What I want to say, Paradoxy, is that she did show you her bad side right from the start. But you didn’t see it. Because you were blinded.
What happened later – her blaming you for having slept with another man for money – is also obnoxious. It’s not even the fact that she slept with another man that is the most disturbing – but that she is blaming you for it. That’s the most disturbing, in my opinion.
And yet, you are not sure because:
she uses the technicality that we had broken up during that one week to claim that she didn’t cheat on me.
No, technically she didn’t cheat. But blaming you for it is so deeply unfair and emotionally abusive – that the only word that I have for it is: obnoxious.
She is taking advantage of the technicality and saying that she didn’t cheat and I don’t know how to argue with the technicality.
Dear Paradoxy, you might want to tell her something like “your behavior is obnoxious, you’ve hurt me so much with your lies and manipulation and blaming me for the things that are your fault, and I’ve had it. I don’t want to argue with you any more. We are done.”
In other words, tell her the truth. Because it’s not important whether she technically cheated on you or not. What is important is her attitude: one of refusing to take responsibility for her actions and endlessly blaming you, accusing you and manipulating you.
And what is also important is how you’re feeling with her: emotionally drained, exhausted, ruined (your words).
Your emotions matter. Even if there is no logic behind them (and there is – there is a very fat, solid logic), you have the right to feel what you feel and refuse to engage with the person who is abusing you.
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
Mostly it is helping myself these days. Yeah, like today and yesterday I need support to play and be stimulated and it’s so hard to give it to me. So the best I can do is try to not suffer too much and endure it.
Still part of me feels that I only get accepted if I do whatever pleases people and I endure it.
I wonder if you, as a child, felt guilty for playing and simply having fun and being care-free, because your mother was always unhappy and sad, in the martyr mode? And so you felt guilty if you were happy and enjoying yourself?
And perhaps you rather did what was expected of you? Actually, now I’ve taken a look at you earlier posts: you said that you didn’t do what was expected of you, but would rather freeze or engage in a self-destructive behavior:
I’m not sure if I tried to help her. I’m more prone to the freeze or self destructive behavior. I belief she couldn’t give me space, maybe I was part of meeting her needs.
Okay, so you were not a “good, obedient” boy – you rather went into the freeze or rebel mode. But underneath that reaction (which was a defense mechanism), you felt not accepted for who you are, right? You felt that not even your purest, selfless love is good enough:
I just want to be accepted. I’m when I think of it even afraid of that when I give selfless/love that it might be received that way.
It sounds like you felt you were not good enough, your love was not good enough. Perhaps you simply being yourself: a joyful, playful, loving kid was not good enough? Perhaps when you were playing and wanted to show your achievements to your parents (in the sense of “Mom, look at me!”, or “Dad, look at me!”), they didn’t appreciate it – your mother because she was always sad and burdened, and your father because he was working a lot and rarely at home? So perhaps play became not a source of joy and pride, as it should be for a child, but a source of distress and pain?
If so, then allowing yourself to play – to feel the joy and the impulse from within, without feeling guilty about it – might be what you truly need at the moment.
I think what I can do well is to create harmony in daily live that’s what I do when I regulated myself and I’m doing public things. Maybe there’s someone who’s afraid to skate in the park and I notice it. I go to the person and I talk with her about it and let her know he/she’s welcome.
That’s nice. You did say in the beginning of your thread that you would like to have a deeper connection with people (“Right know I belief that what I actually want is deep connection with people.”). So it seems you are doing that now, offering your selfless, pure love (in form of kindness and help to a stranger), and that’s how you are expressing what you couldn’t as a child, i.e. what was not appreciated by your mother (or both parents?).
I think it’s rather simple that the meaning is to feel what would be the greatest now or in the foreseeable future and if you make it happen, that’s the meaning.
Like give a hug to this person or walk to the Garden, leave the house. Express yourself. Ask someone who she archived a goal. Tell someone that you appreciate him.Yeah, it seems expressing your true self, your compassionate and loving self, is your priority at the moment. Also, expressing yourself perhaps in play (e.g. skate-boarding), or doing other activities that bring you joy, instead of getting stuck in the usual freeze response, which actually blocks your joyful self-expression.
April 7, 2024 at 11:13 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #430750TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
Should have seen the red flags when she was dry and cold and behaving weird in the first couple days of our relationship.
What did she do in the first days of your relationship?
I went back and re-read your first post, about how your relationship started. Well, it started with her initiating the flirtation, making seductive and over-the-top statements (such as suggesting that you could be her pretend husband, after barely having met you!), and sending you a photo of herself with pouting lips.
We were casually talking with the group of friends there when the topic shifted about my relationship life and I admitted that I’ve never been loved by anyone before. And she responded by saying that I could be her pretend husband. I played along at first but her saying that caught my attention.
We started to text more often and eventually she sent me a picture of herself pouting her lips to give a kiss.
Her style with you, right from the start, was very seductive. There was no shame or modesty in her approach. It was pretty over-the-top to suggest, after only talking to you once or twice, that you should be her “pretend husband.” To me, it shows someone who is pretty uninhibited, and very confident in her ability to get any guy she wants.
The following is what I think happened in those early days of you interacting with her:
Her words “pretend husband” caught your attention. You suddenly started thinking about her: “I kept reminding R [your friend] about what she said cause it made me feel butterflies in my stomach.”
“Pretend husband” was the keyword that got your imagination going, and I think what happened is that you started thinking she could be “the one”, your future wife, the only person you’ll ever love in your life (because that’s what your father told you: that you should only love one woman).
And so, in your mind, she became a serious candidate to fill in that place – the place of your faithful wife and “queen” – before you even knew anything about her.
Then she sent you a photo with pouting lips, which sparked your imagination further: “my heart was pounding. Imagine being noticed by the most beautiful woman in the vicinity and receiving a picture like that.”
And then she offered to kiss you, for “educational” purposes: “she asked if I have ever kissed anyone before, and I told her that I haven’t. And she asked me if I wanted to try it, but I told her I didn’t want to kiss someone who I am not in a relationship with. She understood that but she was still offended, and she went home.”
And then the next day she admitted she had feelings for you, after which you immediately brought your parents into the equation (thinking that she is a serious wife candidate):
I told her that there is a possibility that my parents won’t approve of her and I do not want to be in a relationship where my partner is constantly worried about me leaving her cause of my parents. She said she can handle it and I told her that I will only be in a relationship if she is willing to handle the consequences of us dating. She agreed,
You told her that your parents might be a problem because they might not approve of her, and she said she can handle it. You also told her that she needs to accept the consequences of dating you, and she agreed to accept those consequences. BTW have you explained to her why your parents might not approve of her? Have you clarified early on what the consequences of dating you are, so that she knows what you expect of her?
In any case, she agreed to everything, and you probably thought that she accepted your “rules of the game”, i.e. how she should behave as your girlfriend and your future wife. And that’s what made you accept her advances: you allowed her to kiss you and then it led to everything else. And when she made you breakfast and lunch the night after your first sexual encounter, you were “sold”. You were in heaven, believing she is your perfect future wife: “I was very much in love with her and I prayed that she was the one I would be with forever.”
So basically, you fell in love with the idea of her: that she will be the perfect wife that you and your parents had in mind for you.
In reality, you knew very little about her: she was obviously very beautiful and sexy, she was willing to cook for you (which you find very important in a woman), and she told you that she agreed with the rules of the game (i.e. how a good girlfriend and a good future wife should behave). You thought: bingo!
The problem is that she fooled you. Because she doesn’t agree with the rules of the game. She certainly doesn’t accept the consequences of dating you – such as wearing less revealing clothes, not hugging other men while wearing a bikini, not posting sexy photos on social media. But that’s not even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that she didn’t accept even the basic rules for a loving, committed relationship: no lying and no cheating.
Just as an aside, not every man would be bothered by his girlfriend/wife wearing sexy outfits and showing her attributes (some even like it, such as those who like to show off their trophy wife – for them it’s a sign of being superior to other men).
However, every man would be bothered by his girlfriend lying to him, hiding an ex in her house, and sleeping with someone for money.
So B not only didn’t fit your particular vision of a loving girlfriend/wife (which might be more old-fashioned) – she didn’t fit the general, widely accepted vision of what constitutes a loving and caring partner/wife.
And that’s why I am sorry to say, but B was “a perfect angel from heaven” only in your imagination, Paradoxy. It is a vision that exists only in your mind. You wanted her to fit that vision, and you have been trying to educate her how to fit that vision.
But she is vehemently opposing it, she doesn’t want it. Based on everything you said about her, her nature is very different from that vision: she is not the type to wear modest clothes and hide her sex appeal. She likes getting men’s attention and being desired by men. Even with you, from day 1, she was bold and seductive.
So I think you’d need to open your eyes to her real nature vs. the idealized image that you still have in your mind. You need to stop wanting to fit her into your vision. Because she is miles away from it, even opposite of it.
Even when she apologizes for not fitting your vision (e.g. for wearing revealing clothes, posting sexy pictures on social media etc,), she doesn’t really mean it. Because she keeps doing it, no matter how many times you’ve asked her not to. This to me is a proof that she is rejecting your vision, even if she pretends she doesn’t.
So I believe those are fake apologies, aimed at keeping you interested. Because obviously, she wants to stay with you, she doesn’t want to let you go.
I must admit that the newest information that you’ve shared about her (that you have been giving her a lot of money) made me suspicious of her true motives:
she still has my belongings such as laptop, mouse and a lot of money which she cannot return as she is not financially stable right now and her work requires her to have my laptop as she cannot afford her own.
You say she is working, and yet you are giving her a lot of money. I wonder why is that (if you don’t mind sharing)?
April 6, 2024 at 2:51 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #430654TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
She said that she was hurt by the break up, she was hurt by my parents’ views on the women today due to the horrible experiences they have come across.
When I said she was hurting, I was referring to the hurt that predates your relationship. The hurt that made her prostitute herself. The hurt that makes her feel loved and accepted by people who pay her for sex. That kind of hurt. Because those are not sentiments and reactions of an emotionally healthy person. Those are reactions of someone with an emotional injury.
She might have been offended by you asking if she was a gold digger, but it wouldn’t have caused a normal person to go prostitute herself. She is blaming you for hurting her, but she had been hurt much earlier, by her parents and other family members, in her childhood and youth. And she is still carrying that hurt, and acting out from it.
She said she felt more loved by other men than with me cause of the stereotype my parents had of women in general in the modern world.
I think she actually has self-esteem issues, she feels unworthy, otherwise she couldn’t have prostituted herself. And she seems to want validation from you – that’s why she is talking about discrimination and is so easily offended by your parents’ views (you had numerous fights about that, right?).
But she is not getting any validation, partly (1) because of your general suspicion of women, which you inherited from your parents (spiced up by the fact that her aunt is actually a gold-digger and a woman of suspicious morale), and more importantly (2) because she behaves in inappropriate, sexually provocative ways with men.
So she feels rejected by you and your parents, but at the same time she is behaving in ways that prove your parents’ suspicion. She is offended that you don’t give her more respect, while at the same time she is not warrantying that respect – based on how she behaves with men.
My guess is that she is in her own vicious circle of wanting approval and ruining it with her own actions. But then she doesn’t want to accept that it is HER who is ruining her own credibility, but is blaming you for that. That’s the double abuse I was talking about: first by lying/cheating, and then by blaming you for it.
So this could be her inner struggle: wanting respect and ruining it. Feeling worthless (and doing things with which she further humiliates herself), but wanting to feel worthy.
You didn’t cause her to feel worthless (it happened in her childhood and youth), but you are adding to the feeling, by staying in a relationship with her and trying to force her to be decent, and teach her about it (about the rules and moral codes), and calling her stupid when she doesn’t comply.
This whole attempt of yours to “save” her is futile, because her problem is not lack of knowledge, but an internal battle. A battle that she is waging with herself, and you got caught in the middle. You are trying to save her, but as I said before, only she can save herself.
Fine, I could start seeing her like that. And then what? How do I fix it? How do I correct this subconscious desire in her?
You cannot. Only she can help herself – if she chooses to. If she acknowledges that she has a problem and then goes to therapy with it.
I thought I could fix it if I loved her right, but that didn’t work. I thought that my desire for her would have enough effect on her to not appreciate other men’s desire for her.
I just thought my love could fix those issues, those flaws in her.
That’s not how our psychological problems work. If something is missing from our formative years (from that cement that goes into the foundations of the house), it can only be healed by inner work and inner transformation. No external substitute will do. Even if you were the most perfect boyfriend, and even if you tolerated her cheating, she would still have the internal battle within herself. And she would still find reasons to falsely accuse you of things.
You thought you were helping her heal by accepting her lame excuses and giving her another chance. And then trying to educate her how to behave, getting pissed off with her, calling her names, etc. This had zero positive effect on her, it only added fuel to the fire. And it ruined you and lead you to exhaustion, as you said, because she was completely closed for any kind of “correction”. Because as I said, her problem is not lack of education, but an internal battle.
I am able to accurately describe how she feels and she knows that I am the only person who understands her so well, but that doesn’t mean I do not have a limit to how much foolishness I can tolerate.
You don’t understand her, Paradoxy. She is not stupid or foolish. She is in an internal battle with herself, on one hand wanting to feel worthy and respected, and on the other probably believing she doesn’t deserve it. And then sabotaging it by acting out sexually. That’s just an assumption on my part, but whatever it is, it’s not something you can fix for her. She would need to acknowledge that she has a problem first, and then seek therapy.
Like come on, how can you expect me to not get angry when she sleeps with another man and then blames me for it? It is so draining to have an argument with her cause of how stubborn she is.
It’s normal to get angry, but it’s not normal to repeat the cycle endless times, trying to make her see how she is hurting you, and she not wanting to listen, and you trying to force her to listen (the amount of pressure I have to put to force her to listen is really high. I have to figuratively shut her mouth with tape to make her listen, that is the level the situation has become.)
I hope you haven’t actually taped her mouth (!) but it shows how strongly you are attached to changing her. Which is an unhealthy amount of attachment. You would need to let her go.
You cannot force the person to see you, to have empathy for you, to understand your pain – they have to feel it themselves. And she doesn’t feel it. She is very much in denial of the destructiveness of her actions and her own responsibility in it.
I will still consider what you have said, but I think I need to cut ties with her cause she comes back telling me how hurt she is and etc that I am detaching when it is so obvious that I am detaching cause of the numerous amount of times that she has hurt me.
I never said you shouldn’t cut ties. On the contrary, I advised you not to get back together with her. She is still trying to lure you back, to make you feel sorry for her, telling you that you broke up for stupid reasons etc. When the truth is that you have every right to detach yourself from her, after everything she did.
So yes, I’d encourage you to detach yourself, to stop wanting to change her, to stop believing you can heal her. Because her healing can only come from within – if and when she is ready for it.
April 5, 2024 at 10:30 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #430629TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
Prompted by Anita’s post, I would like to address the fact that you see B’s behavior with men (sleeping with other men, sexting, walking around scantily dressed etc) as stupid, whereas it could be a result of unresolved psychological issues, as I’ve tried to explain before.
You called her (or her behavior) stupid numerous times in your posts, including when she slept with another man for money:
I do not hate her. I hate the things she did. I hate her stupidity. … She was already aware of what was going to happen DAYS BEFORE it happened. She had time to prepare. Time to think. Time to decide. Yet she still chose wrong.
SHE IS A 22 YEAR OLD ADULT WHO SHOULD HAVE THE COMMON SENSE TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION AND SHE CHOSE THE WRONG ONE. WHAT MAKES MATTERS WORSE IS THAT B AND THE MAN CONTINUED TALKING FOR COUPLE MORE WEEKS AND SHE EVEN ADMITTED TO DEVELOPING FEELINGS FOR HIM.
I am just confused as to how this situation even happened. My only logical explanation is just plain stupidity.
Her parents did not take care of her well and so it was her aunt who actually took care of her so that would explain why she is so stupid.
I cannot even blame her for being stupid cause I know she is trying her best to do the right things. How do you even improve someone’s decision making skills? Like how do you teach someone to make better decisions?
I have tried to explain to you that women don’t prostitute themselves out of stupidity, but because of external conditioning (e.g. being taught that it is something normal and desirable) or because of lack of self-respect, i.e. some inner brokenness and trauma.
Agreeing to prostitution, without being directly coerced into it, is a sign that the person is emotionally and mentally unwell, not that they are stupid.
I’ve got to say, this notion of yours that she is stupid rather than emotionally wounded reminds me of your father’s attitude that suicidal people are idiots. He believed that you were stupid for having suicidal thoughts. Whereas you were not stupid, but you were hurting.
I believe this is similar – B is not stupid, she is hurting in some way. What she said in the following 2 sentences tells me that she might actually feel loved by the men who desire her, who view her as a sex object:
B told me that my parents and I ruined her life, that she entertained the other men and slept with the guy cause she liked the feeling of not being discriminated against.
The fact that she said that I ruined her life, that I would cheat (despite how loyal I was to her), the fact that she liked how she felt with other men unlike me, all hurt me.
She even developed feelings for the guy who was paying her for sex:
WHAT MAKES MATTERS WORSE IS THAT B AND THE MAN CONTINUED TALKING FOR COUPLE MORE WEEKS AND SHE EVEN ADMITTED TO DEVELOPING FEELINGS FOR HIM.
This tells me that she confuses being loved with being sexually desired. If my assumption is correct, she didn’t go to prostitute herself because she was stupid, but (bizarre as it may sound) because she wanted to feel loved, to feel good about herself. Which she claimed she didn’t always feel with you.
Let me be clear, I am NOT condoning her behavior whatsoever. I am just saying that her sexually inappropriate behavior is not the result of stupidity, but of her own unmet emotional needs, especially the need for love.
Of course, the way she behaves with you – lying, cheating and acting out sexually – is not a loving behavior. And I understand why you can’t love her for that. But she is not doing it because she is stupid.
You have convinced yourself that she is innocent and oblivious and stupid, and that she behaves in sexually provocative ways without being aware of it:
in the case of her hugging the guy and wearing the bikini, I see pure stupidity cause the pictures she took indicate that she is oblivious to the fact that the guy friend’s friend has his arm around her back ending near the breast region while the bikini incident occurred at around 6 am where she assumed everyone would be asleep, but obviously not cause her guy friend was awake. I also noticed that the outfit that she chose to wear are extremely short, cut jeans while everyone else including the females were wearing long, more modest clothing.
I pointed out all of these things and she acknowledged that she was not thinking when she did all of this and apologized for it but idk if I should even consider her apology.
The way that she behaves just shows how stupid and oblivious she is. She doesn’t even appear to be intentionally doing it, she is just operating on literally three brain cells, so it is hard to assume that she is craving the attention, she is just an extrovert that likes to party and enjoy life etc.
She told you she wasn’t thinking, and you believed her, but the more likely explanation is that she actually liked these guys’ attention, because she herself admitted that she felt good being with men who desired her. She isn’t bothered by being sexually desired by men – on the contrary, she likes it (by her own admission).
My addition is that she might even feel loved by them, because she might be confusing love with sexual desire.
Anyway, I don’t see oblivion or stupidity in her behavior, but rather an unmet emotional need, which she is trying to meet in wrong ways. Ways that will only harm her. But that’s the nature of all addictions and all unhealthy behaviors.
That’s why I would like to suggest to you to re-evaluate your stance that she is stupid and oblivious. And start thinking of her as someone hurting inside. Someone with unmet emotional needs. Perhaps even someone like you, even though she is displaying a very different behavior than you.
This doesn’t mean you need to get back together and start tolerating her bad behavior. You should definitely not do that!
But what it means is that you need to stop trying to teach her, guide her and educate her out of her “stupidity”. Because she is not stupid, she knows all those things (you said she reads her Bible every day). And she is a medical student, so she certainly has more than 3 brain cells working!
You said you loved her and tried to help her heal (I am the only person who took on the role of helping her heal). But telling her that she is stupid, dumb, brick wall etc isn’t love and isn’t conducive to healing. Realizing that she has mental health issues and then suggesting therapy (individual therapy) would be more helpful.
And then letting her go, because her emotional wounds cause her to behave in ways that abusive and hurtful towards you. And you don’t need to endure that.
Anyway, I think a change is necessary in how you view her…
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
glad you’re doing better!
Haha, I do the same with the physical symptoms. Sounds like you’re confident and hands on about this!
Yeah, I believe in the mind-body unity, and I’ve practiced this approach since long ago. And it really helps because it gives me some sense of control and the ability to impact things. It’s not like my body is against me, but it’s more like my body is trying to tell me something…
Juhuu, feels good to read that. Reminds me at Gabor Maté I heard him say last week. Asking yourself if you’re good enough is the wrong question. Do you ask yourself if a tree is good enough or a Mounatin
Yeah, we are all inherently good enough and worthy. But we were made to believe we are not…
Is it a way of giving love?
Yes, you could say that. It does come from my heart and I believe in it.
I belief in the way things are and so far haven’t met a higher power. It can be frustrating to know things you’d like to do and not being able to do them. I think praying can really help me to be an antidote to feeling helpless. Then I can pray for finding way’s to do what I want to do with joy. To overcome my obstacles in times of despair.
Okay, it seems you do know what you’d like to do, but you feel unable to do it. (It can be frustrating to know things you’d like to do and not being able to do them.)
Because in your previous post you confirmed this understanding of mine: you don’t know what your contribution (to the world) should be, and you want to pray for clarity on that.
But it seems that you do know what you’d like to do (i.e. what your contribution should be), but you feel unable to do it? Or you feel no joy in doing it? (Then I can pray for finding way’s to do what I want to do with joy.) Oh perhaps you feel a certain obligation to do some acts of service, to serve the world in some way, but you feel no joy in doing that? Please help me understand because it’s not quite clear to me…
Thanks for sharing this observation. What you write is very close to how I feel. Yeah, this impulse confuses me and it is a challenge to bear. What I do is to let go which takes some time and control.
You are welcome, Beni. Okay, if that’s how you feel, perhaps it is related to the above: feeling a certain obligation or pressure to do something grand and noble (to serve the world in some manner), but not feeling joy in doing that? Again, I apologize in advance if I am misunderstanding it.
It feels good to read that
Happy to hear that 🙂
April 4, 2024 at 2:08 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #430553TeeParticipantDear Dafne,
happy belated Easter to you too!
Some days are hard to even want to get up & keep going. Especially during the family holidays when everyone reunites at one table.
I am sorry it’s hard for you sometimes, Dafne. Did you spend Easter alone?
I myself am feeling a bit better again, thank God. And it does seem my pain is affected by my psychology and the mental/emotional blocks I still have in me. It’s good to know that I have at least some measure of control of my pain – that I am not completely helpless.
Yes, actually everybody always agreed with how I felt about my father. Most of my family is not here anymore but as far as I remember, they could never get along. Even his own parents were not happy with his behaviour and his difficult character. It always had to be his way or no way. And if not, he got abusive & angry.
My mom was the only one trying to accommodate him, change him, give him too many chances. She denied the reality and sometimes didn’t want to hear my opinion and feelings. I suppose it is because she made a bad decisions in life because she was too much in love with him. It blinded her judgment and later she suffered as well. She might feel like it is her fault not listening to all the warnings around her.
Okay, this paints an interesting picture. So your father was a difficult man, and everybody around you (both friends and family) knew about it and acknowledged it. Everybody except the most important person in your life – your mother.
Your mother was the only one who tent to look away and delude herself that he would change. She not only gaslighted herself, but also you. She invalidated your feelings and your correct view of him (sometimes didn’t want to hear my opinion and feelings).
And she is doing it to this day:
She still pushes me to send him the birthday wishes, Easter, Christmas etc. I feel it’s not right.
No, it’s not right. She is pushing you to expose yourself to his abuse, to endure it. To be nice and loving to a mean and selfish person. It’s not right, Dafne, and I hope you can stick to your resolution to stop availing yourself to his abuse. To stop contact. To stop allowing his toxicity to harm you.
It wasn’t easy for you, dear Dafne, to grow up with a mother who taught you not to have boundaries and not to respect yourself. She didn’t have self-esteem and she taught you the same. Not only by example, but also by encouraging you to disregard your father’s abuse and still be kind to him. And she taught you not to trust your own feelings – because your feelings about him were right, but she dismissed them.
She was his enabler, in a way. She enabled the abuse, even if she herself didn’t commit it. And that’s why I can imagine how hard it was for you, because you must have felt very alone. With an abusive and neglectful father, and a mother who condoned this behavior.
It’s good though that the people around you, both friends and family, saw him for who he is. You said:
Most of my family is not here anymore but as far as I remember, they could never get along.
Do you have family members who are still alive, who did understand you and who you feel would validate your feelings? Because maybe it would make sense to get in touch with them again?
All my friends tell me to forget him. They don’t even want to talk about him. For them he is not worth it. He only wants a child to support him and his vision. So no, Tee I do not really have someone to share anymore.
I see… your friends don’t want to hear your complaints about him any more. They know who he is, and they know he’ll never change. So they don’t want to waste more time on talking about him, right?
Well, I understand them. They probably want the best for you, they’d like you to “move on”. But it’s hard to move on, with all the hurt in your heart. That’s why, if you have the need to talk about him, it would be better not to talk to your friends about him, but to a professional, a therapist. Because your friends can’t help you process and heal the pain, whereas a therapist can.
And I hope that talking about him here on the forum is helping you too, if not to process the pain but at least to understand it. So you are free to talk about him here…
Maybe I should just stop talking and thinking about him? Maybe this will help me to move on faster. Is that even possible?
As I said, when you talk about him, talk with the intention to heal. Don’t talk from the position of a helpless victim (which you indeed were as a child), but from a position of an adult who you are right now.
You are an incredibly empathic and wise woman, Dafne. You are able to change your life. You are able be free from the abuse, because you are able to recognize abuse. You are able to discern what love is, vs. manipulation. You can start trusting your feelings and intuition, because they are right. You can let that wise woman guide you, Dafne.
One of my friends had daddy issues as well but she coped in a different way. Just like you said it. She erased the memory of her father and never spoke about him again. She found a man who actually is much older than her and is happy to be like a father figure to her. He doesn’t mind at all. He understands her pain and wants to take care of her and love her. Is that a better solution for woman with those issues?
Well, it’s okay if they are both happy with this dynamic. If she is a little needy and he doesn’t mind the care-taker role. It doesn’t have to be a child-parent dynamic all the time, but sometimes, say if she starts worrying about something, he might be able to console her and reassure her that everything will be fine. That kind of thing. As long as they both are happy about it and neither of them is frustrated, it’s okay.
It is a time of hope, renewal & of new beginnings. I wish this season will bring us more relief from the emotional and physical pain.
I salute to that, Dafne! To hope, renewal and new beginnings! <3
April 3, 2024 at 11:32 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #430551TeeParticipantHi Paradoxy,
isn’t admitting the mistake similar to taking responsibility for the mistake?
No, it’s like saying “Yes, I robbed the bank, but you made me do it.”
She is blaming you for sleeping with other men, basically.
She is abusing you and then blaming you for the abuse. It is called victim blaming.
If that obliviousness is actually fake, then that girl deserves an oscar for her performance cause that is how convincing it is.
Maybe she should be an actress. And second, if you want to be with someone so “oblivious” and “stupid” (this level of stupidity makes me wonder whether she is actually 24 or actually 5), then go ahead. I don’t want to keep trying to dissuade you, if that’s what you really want.
I just can’t imagine any other girl caring for me the same way B cared for me. Like which girl would help dealing with dandrives in someone’s hair?
Well, that’s nice of her to try to help. But you should know that when two people get married, they vow to be there for each other in sickness and in health. It is normal to care for one’s partner if they are sick. However it’s not normal to lie to them and cheat on them.
But today she has taken full responsibility for her actions and promised to not bother me anymore but claims to have trust in God that I will come back to her….
So she and I have come to the agreement that we are now broken up and we will no longer talk about the relationship but she is welcome to ask for my help for her work or whenever she needs it.
Good that you decided to stop going back and forth on it. You said she has finally taken full responsibility for her actions – what exactly did she say?
My attraction for her has nothing to do with her stubbornness. I definitely do not want someone who is too high on their horse to acknowledge what is right and what is wrong. Yes I want someone who understands me but I definitely do not want someone who literally drains all the energy out of me before they finally understand me.
But you keep trying to make her understand. For more than a year now, with no success. Until all your energy was drained. And you still want to give her another chance. It seems you really want this stubborn (“oblivious”, according to you) girl to finally listen to you.
You said something similar about your father: you said he was incapable of understanding your feelings (he is INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING). She too seems incapable of understanding. So I see a pretty big similarity there.
I’ve seen how these girls behave, literally no respect for their partners. These girls make B look like she is a perfect angel from heaven
How are these other girls worse than B? Because I have a hard time imagining bigger disrespect than cheating on you and then blaming you for it.
Besides, the girls who are actually worth it, won’t even give me a chance. So I am just stuck with my fate.
Based on what you said about your online encounters with girls, between ages 15 and 17, you did have some success, but it was either your parents or the girl’s parents who put an end to your online romance. But you concluded – incorrectly – that none of those girls were interested in you. So I am guessing it’s not true now either – that none of the normal, decent girls (which can be found, I guarantee you!) would be interested in you.
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