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    Dear Paradoxy,

    My dad already has the predetermined ideology that suicidal people are idiots, so he believed that there was no way in hell that his own kid would be suicidal. Besides, it’s not like they can see me in pain. They have to see me suffer in order for them to feel like I need help. I have never shown them my suffering, I kept it bottled.

    So you never told them what was bothering you? Have you ever tried telling them?

    But you did tell it to your school/church friend, didn’t you? Because you told her that you attempted suicide because of your parents. Did you tell her what you didn’t like about your parents’ behavior?

    they even had other parents try to lecture me. They all say the same thing because THEY ALL think that what they are suggesting is actually what is good for me. They don’t know that I am suffering.

    So after your suicide attempt, they had other parents lecture you. What did those other parents tell you?

    it is not other fathers in our religious community, it is outsiders too, even my own school teachers said the same thing when my mom enquired them about me on parent teacher conference days. EVEN THE CHURCH MEN SAID IT TOO, and we go to a Greek Church so you definitely know they are not anywhere near of our “religious” community.

    What did your school teachers say about you? What did the Church men say?

    No, their parenting style did harm me, but not because the parenting style was harmful, but because of the individuals using the parenting style. Another parent can use the same parenting style, even be cruel to a certain point, but if they had just realized the mental and emotional deterioration that was happening, they could have helped with the healing while maintaining the parenting style. They could still drive me into doing med and not pursuing music and etc, but if they had just given me the encouragement I needed, the understanding that I expected from them, helping me go through this process TOGETHER instead of all by myself, my mental and emotional health would have been so much better.

    So you are saying your parents still have impacted your emotional and mental health, because they haven’t realized the mental and emotional deterioration that was happening, they haven’t given you the encouragement you needed and the understanding that you expected from them. And they let you go through this process ALONE, all by yourself.

    But if you had parents who did the above, then your mental and emotional health would be so much better.

    So you are basically saying that your parents’ treatment did affect your emotional and mental health. That there was something they failed to do: they failed to realize your mental and emotional deterioration, i.e. your suffering. And they failed you give you encouragement and understanding you needed, which left you feeling all alone.

    You are saying that their failure to provide those things left a mark on your mental and emotional health. Which means you are basically agreeing with me, because I have been saying the same.

     

    I am not fit to be a son-in-law because most fathers want a son that is mature and man enough to handle the responsibility of being the man of the house. And that is a huge responsibility, and requires leadership skills, which I definitely lack due to my lack of confidence due to my poor mental and emotional health. I need a certain level of wisdom to understand how to handle the responsibilities of being the man of the house. Being the man of the house also requires me to ignore my emotions when taking responsibilities.

    I have been observing this in 39 families now, and it is the same thing in each of them, that is how I know that this thing is normal and the outcome will still be the same.

    You are describing a set of expectations that are put on men in your religious community: you need to be “the man in the house”. Which means that you need to be the sole decision maker in the family. For that, you need to have a certain level of wisdom and leadership skills to “lead” your wife (and your children) in a wise manner. When making decisions, you need to ignore your emotions and use only “logic”. And whenever you feel pain or discomfort about something, you need to “suck it up” and do your duty.

    This is the image of a “perfect” man and husband that you grew up with, or better say, that you were indoctrinated with.

    This image is bs, if I may say so. It has nothing to do with how a good, strong and yet compassionate man should behave. The very fact that you are supposed to ignore your emotions and your heart cannot lead to wise decisions. You cannot be wise and at the same time ignore and suppress your emotions.

    Also the idea that you need to “lead” your wife – who supposedly is not too smart and needs your guidance – is super misogynist. A healthy relationship is about both partners being equal, and both agreeing on the best path forward in their life. It can be that some men are better in finances, and so they make financial  decisions. But sometimes the woman is better with finances, or uses her intuition to e.g. decide what property to buy. So it’s okay to let the woman decide too, specially if she has better skills than the man in some areas.

    This whole idea of man wearing the pants and making all important decisions in the family is bs. It puts a lot of pressure on you as a man. And it would on any guy who is not a stuck-up male chauvinist who believes women are stupid and should focus on what they know to do best: child rearing and household.

    If you believe you need to be that kind of man – the kind of man your father taught you to be and that he himself is – then I am sorry, I cannot help you. Because it would require you to turn yourself into something you are not, within a family system that is in itself distorted. But if you want to grow out of that toxic and outdated system, then we can talk about it some more.

     

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #432100
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey Beni,

    How is your back?

    my back is fine, thanks for asking. The worsening that I experienced about a month or so, has now passed, and I am back to my baseline, which is a low-grade pain but manageable. I am fine with this status and not really focusing on being pain-free, because it seems like something I cannot control. So this is good enough…

    And how is your back?

    Mhh, my Dad was in Hospital as a child for one week and his mom couldn’t see him. I think that created some kind of void and he needs my mom and his job for it and my mom needs my dad.

    He can’t really say how he feels. Lately he said he was depressed for a decade in his 40ies. He would just say he’s alright all the time. My mom would always want to know how our day was or his day at work and we did not really wanna answer.

    my mother would struggle to stand up for herself and when she tried my father, brother (and I’m not shure if I did. Cause I’m more like her than my Dad) would put her back to her place in a way. Because she would be emotional and it would not make sense in a logic way.

    When she was emotional he kinda put her back to her place. Like when you need empathy and you get logic.

    Okay, it seems your father wasn’t really good at expressing emotions, while your mother wanted emotional intimacy. That’s why she would ask him how his day was etc. But it seems he wasn’t attuned to her (or his own) emotional needs, e.g. perhaps he failed to notice when she was sad or there is a problem. Her emotional states were “invisible” for him, which in practical terms means he lacked empathy for her.

    She probably felt unseen and was stuffing her hurt for a while, until she could no longer bear it. That’s when she would break down and start crying. A trigger for that could be if the kitchen was in a mess. In those moments, she probably felt that no one cares about her, no one “sees” her, and she would react with anger at you, ordering you to do something ASAP (perhaps a chore or something).

    But it was out of character for her, because she wasn’t a bossy person. She wasn’t a strict, authoritative parent. But sometimes, when she was desperate (believing that no one cares about her), she would lose it, and that’s when she acted angrily and “bossy”. You said it felt “like she needs an illusion of control“.

    It seems she didn’t have much control in your family, she was suppressing her needs. Or when she expressed it, your father would dismiss her complaints (When she was emotional he kinda put her back to her place.). But sometimes she couldn’t bear it any longer and that’ when she would break down, start crying and/or become bossy with you.

    Maybe when she would finally express her needs, it would be from the position of a victim, like “why don’t you ever see how I am suffering?”, or “why can’t you do xyz for me, but let me do everything by myself?” Like, blaming your father (and you and your brother) for not being caring enough or sensitive enough, or for not helping her enough?

    My mom would always want to know how our day was or his day at work and we did not really wanna answer. It didn’t feel right. It was/is often a too open a question and doesn’t feel save to reply. It’s in someway food for something unwholesome. When you don’t listen but project yourself on the reply it can be painful to the replier.

    Perhaps you felt that she wasn’t really asking how your day was because she was sincerely interested, but because she was looking for an opportunity to start talking about herself and her issues and her problems. Since she never felt heard and seen, she needed to “steal” those opportunities from you. She wanted to force you to listen to her. But you didn’t want it, because it was a burden for you (and indeed too much for a child) to act as an emotional support for your mother.

    In fact, I am thinking now that perhaps she had an unmet childhood need to be seen and appreciated. Maybe she felt like no one cares about her. And so she was trying to get love and appreciation from her husband and her children. But that’s impossible because our unmet childhood needs are like a bottomless pit – they cannot be met by anyone but ourselves. They can only be met via healing.

    So if she was expecting her husband and specially her children to meet that unmet need, I can imagine it led to frustration on both sides.

    Your father, as the adult, could in theory have had the capacity to “see” her, to give her the appreciation she craved for (except in practice, he didn’t have the capacity because of his own wounds). But you, as her child, definitely didn’t have the capacity to meet her emotional needs. You needed her to meet your needs, not vice versa.

    That’s probably why you rejected her hugs and kisses – because you felt she is hugging you to meet her own need (Or needed it herself. It’s like taking a hug.)  She might have hugged you when she felt unloved, hoping you would give her what she is missing. But you felt it – you felt that her hugs were not for you, but for her.

    But you also had some empathy for her – you didn’t want to always reject her, unlike your father and brother (My dad and brother are more black and white and colder).

    So perhaps you had some feeling of guilt when rejecting her? Perhaps that’s why you nowadays struggle with ambivalence in certain situations:

    [I said this:] It sounds like if you don’t do things others expect from you (or you believe they expect), you fear that the person might feel rejected, and it causes you pain. And you feel helpless because you don’t want to hurt them, but at the same time, you don’t want to do it either. So you are conflicted. You feel ambivalence, and perhaps you freeze in that neither-nor state, not wanting to do it, but not able to reject it either.

    [you replied this:] What you write is very close to how I feel. Yeah, this impulse confuses me and it is a challenge to bear.

    The above sounds the same as the conflict you had with regard to your mother: feeling guilty for rejecting her, but also not being able, or not wanting to, give her what she needed, because it went against your own needs, or because it felt inauthentic to you.

    If we lift it to a higher level, it might mean that you are not able to clearly express your NO (towards the things you don’t want in life), but also unable to clearly express your YES (for the things you do want in life).

    So perhaps that’s why you have issues with envisioning what you want? Because there is a subconscious fear that you would be harming someone else (your mother) if you actually allowed yourself to go after your true desires?

    Okay, I’ll stop here. I made a lot of assumptions while putting this together, so there might be a lot of misses. But anyway, this is my current theory of your family dynamic. Let me know what you think and if it resonates… (corrections very welcome!)

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    What you don’t realize is that they do love and care for me, but they do not provide therapeutical love and caring.

    They don’t love and care for your emotional well-being, for your desires, for your goals and dreams. They don’t care about you as a complete person, who has greater needs than just having a super high paying job. They don’t love and care for your overall well-being, which is more than just your material wealth.

    I am sorry, but their version of “love” is not love. Love is not oppression, lack of understanding, lack of empathy, humiliation, coercing the person to do their will.

    You define their parenting as love. Whereas it is the opposite of love. Love cannot be abusive and still be called love.

    They PURPOSEFULLY ignore my suffering because they are OBLIVIOUS to the fact that IT IS SUFFERING. They don’t even CATEGORIZE it as suffering at all.

    They don’t know that I am suffering, they just know that SOMETHING is up

    Splendid. So an attempted suicide is a sign for them that you are having the time of your life? That everything is great in your life? That you are just bored and don’t have a better thing to do? Clearly, for them it was a sign of disobedience, or stupidity, not a cry for help. And they certainly didn’t see themselves responsible even in the slightest.

    But they express these values of love, care, compassion and mercy through strict discipline and materials. They will always be available to love, care and show compassion for you in most situations except the situations that require therapeutical caring.

    No, they expressed the opposite of values of love, care, compassion and mercy in your upbringing. You are convincing yourself that abuse is love. No, it is not.

    YES because during the time they grew up, only these things were considered important because it ensures you live a peaceful life in the physical aspect of things. Achieving these materialistic goals are what was normalized and considered important because without money, there is no point in complaining about your mental and emotional health.

    Sure, 100 years ago it was all about survival. Nobody cared about mental health. But it wasn’t true then and it isn’t true today either that one needs to be getting the highest paying jobs to be materially secured. That you need to study medicine to ensure a decent existence. So their forcing their will on you, pushing you to choose a career with highest salaries – is a bit more than a “survival response”. I am sorry, but to me it’s already greed. It is having their eyes only on the material, while disregarding anything else.

    And how ironical that they should be worried about gold diggers and wicked women who want to take the man’s wealth. In fact, it’s not strange, because they are fixated on wealth (even if they want to accumulate it by honest means and hard work), and of course they are afraid of those who would want to take it away from them.

     

    I am trying to say that I realized that I would still not be the ideal son-in-law because I know what other fathers want in their sons

    You mean what other men in your religious community expect from their son-in-law?

    It has nothing to do with my parents’ parenting style being “harmful”. That is why I said even if I grew up with DIFFERENT parents, the outcome would STILL BE THE SAME.

    they even had other parents try to lecture me. They all say the same thing because THEY ALL think that what they are suggesting is actually what is good for me.

    Other men in your religious community are obviously very similar to your father, so I guess you would get the same or similar abuse that you got from your father. But that still doesn’t mean that you are the core problem, that you have some inherent lacks and deficiencies. Rather, it means that this kind of abusive parenting is harmful for the child’s psyche.

     

    I did not fall in love with B because she was similar to my parents. I fell in love with her because I saw her as DIFFERENT from my parents.

    Yeah, she encouraged your music development, i.e. your hobbies, which your parents probably thought was bs. But that’s the trick: we often fall in love with someone who is different than our parents in one area, but very similar in another.

    In fact, I think you fell in love because she seemed different (and she was different in some aspects). But you stayed for so long (and got so attached) because she was the same as your parents. You tried to get empathy and understanding from her, who is essentially unable to provide it, just like your parents.

     I expected basic friendship, loyalty and respect from her,

    I was too blind to see that B was not the right person for me, but my desire to love one person only caused me to try to help her become the right person for me, which was a mistake that I now regret and have learnt from. That desire did not stem from my unmet emotional needs. That desire came from my morals.

    By your morals, do you mean that the first girl you date should be your future wife? Because that “rule” too is something you learned from your father. It’s an invented rule.

    But as I said, your attempts to make her understand you and your needs – even though she was totally unresponsive – prove that it was an unmet need. You couldn’t just let go.

    And in fact, you admitted it yourself:

    She is the only person that I wanted to correct. The only person I wanted to understand. I don’t care about anyone else, my parents, family, friend etc. SHE IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND HER MISTAKES SO SHE CAN CORRECT THEM BECAUSE I WANTED TO LOVE HER WITHOUT HER CAUSING ME MORE PAIN.

    You didn’t need your parents to understand you, but you needed her to understand you. It is very clear from your words (and from your inability to let her go) that you were trying to meet an unmet childhood need through her.

     

    I have agreed with you that my parents are cruel people that have emotionally abused me. So why are you arguing with my decision to forgive them for not realizing that what they are doing is wrong?

    I am not arguing your decision to forgive them. However, I have an issue with you claiming they loved you and cared for you (they do love and care for me, but they do not provide therapeutical love and caring.). Because what they did is not love and care. It was cruelty. Even if they didn’t understand it.

    I am also stressing it because you seem to believe that their parenting style didn’t affect the way you are today. That you would be the same “deficient” person, even if you were born to other parents:

    It has nothing to do with my parents’ parenting style being “harmful”. That is why I said even if I grew up with DIFFERENT parents, the outcome would STILL BE THE SAME.

    This again is freeing them from all responsibility and blaming yourself for having certain deficiencies. As if their lack of love and empathy didn’t leave any trace on you – as if it’s all you and your “badness.” At least this is how it reads to me, and I would like to point out that it’s not the case. Because parenting does affect us immensely.

    Of course it depends on the individual too, because not every child will react the same to the same parental treatment. However, our personality is formed in our childhood, and the way we were parented has a decisive impact on our adult personality. In your latest posts you seem to deny it, claiming that their parenting didn’t really affect you negatively.

    And what are the odds that you are wrong about the main reason for my attachment? Your advice is based on a third person’s perspective, which means you won’t be able to understand certain things that are hard to describe through words. Some experiences and feelings that I had are too complex to simply give a verbal description detailed enough to make you understand. Sometimes you have to trust the speaker. Especially since it is my life that I am describing.

    This is your ego trying to reject my advice, because it doesn’t want to look at certain things. You’ve shared a lot here, certainly enough that I could form a picture of what was going on. Even your own words – the way you phrased things – confirm my assumptions (e.g. that B was the only person you wanted to understand you. And you spoke earlier about the inability of your parents to understand you.)

    But you seem to reject it, because you don’t want to make the link between your psychological issues today and your childhood. It seems you want to blame yourself for how you are today and exculpate your parents. That’s a defense mechanism too, because the child never wants to blame the parents. The child always blames themselves.

    So you saying that your current problems don’t have anything to do with your childhood is an attempt of the inner child to preserve the “goodness” of your parents, the image of that “goodness”. That’s a survival mechanism for the inner child.

    I am not saying you should hate your parents. You said it, and I actually told you it wouldn’t be good. It wouldn’t be a sign of healing. But you need to attribute responsibility where it is due. You cannot solve the problem if you don’t know what caused it.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    My parents and others in the community thought that the physical and emotional abuse we went through was making us stronger and that it would motivate us to become successful, so they believed the abuse was the right course of action because they do not even realize it is abuse and that our emotional health was deteriorating

    they think that it is their “abuse” that drove us to our “success”. If that doesn’t show you how oblivious they are to the effects of their actions, Idk what will

    Dear Paradoxy, your parents must have suspected that your mental health was deteriorating, if not earlier then when you attempted suicide. They knew you were suffering. But what did your father tell you? That you are stupid for being so weak and sensitive. That you should be tougher.

    So he knew that you were suffering, but he believed it was your fault. Because in his eyes, you were not tough enough.

    Essentially their ultimate goal is to help us kids become successful and lead a “good” life but their method is just based on emotional cruelty, which they are unaware of.

    As I said above, that’s not true. They are aware, perhaps not that they are cruel (because they don’t want to admit it, they rather say that you are weak). But they are aware that you are suffering. You showed it to them. But they don’t care.

    Unfortunately, they live in the 21st century, but reject even the most basic findings of the science of human psyche (psychology), which started developing over 150 years ago.

    They purposely reject the whole area of mental health – not because they’ve never heard of it, but because they believe it’s bs.

    So I am afraid you can’t really call your parents oblivious. It’s more that they purposely ignore your suffering, because they don’t find it important.

    the results encouraged them to continue their abuse because we were all scoring very high in exams and getting into prestigious colleges and getting high salary jobs

    So that’s their main goal: getting their children into prestigious colleges, which will result in them getting high salary jobs. For them, that’s all that matters. Well, frankly, those are pretty materialistic goals. They put those above love, care, compassion, mercy – the values that Jesus proclaimed.

    Jesus was all about love. His most important command was to love:

    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.<sup> </sup>By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:34-35)

    Where is your parents’ love and compassion for you, their own child?

    Where is the focus on character development (i.e. treasures stored in heaven), which cannot be developed in an atmosphere of emotional abuse?

    Psychological health is equivalent to soul health. But your parents completely disregard that part. And yet, they claim to be deeply religious. Where is the “logic” in that? (this would be a question for your father)

     

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #432075
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Beni,

    Maybe my Das is involved too.

    So far you haven’t talked about your father too much. How was he involved? Was he the one who sent you to your room when you were misbehaving?

    Based on your latest post (and all the previous ones 🙂 ), I am starting  to form an idea of the kind of dynamic you had with your mother. But I would like to hear also about your interaction with your father, if you would like to share.

    You haven’t been talking much about your father. If I may ask. What is your relationship to men these days? Is there a sex which company you value more.

    My father was a people pleaser and basically, my mother’s enabler. He himself hasn’t abused me, but he didn’t do much to protect me from her criticism and harsh treatment. And he always tried to appease her, so to maintain the “peace” in the family.

    I never had prejudice against men, though I didn’t like men who resembled (physically) to my father. Luckily, I found a good husband and we have been happily married for many years now, although we did have our ups and downs. But our relationship grew and got stronger over time. So I am pretty happy with that aspect of my life.

    When I talk about envisioning the future it’s more conscious.

    Yes, I believe the same.

    There are many teachers saying that you imagine something to make it happen. I think there is a right and a wrong way to do it. Like when I observe myself:

    I Imagine possibilities and opportunities, goals and it feels good. Also I kinda experience it in my head, feel the good feelings as if I archived it and it’s as if I did it and don’t need to do it anymore.

    Interesting. So when imagining it, you feel good about it in the moment, but then you feel that you sort of “ticked the box” and you actually let go of that dream? You don’t engage it any more?

    Sometimes there is the experience of no perspective which I usually try to overcome.

    So sometimes you try to imagine your future, but you feel without perspective? Does it mean that nothing comes up that would excite you as your possible future?

    Lately I thought and felt that maybe that’s the place which is peaceful and grounded in the moment. It feels like it’s a burden to keep ties with the future and all it’s ways and keeps me from meeting higher needs.

    It seems that sometimes there is a certain burden and heaviness when you try to envision your future. It feels easier not to envision anything, but to only focus on the present moment, because staying in the now feels peaceful and grounded. Is that what you’re saying?

    keeps me from meeting higher needs.

    What do you consider to be your higher needs?

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    Exactly, because they believe that even if the child has a mental breakdown, they believe that the child will eventually become successful and appreciate the abuse they are put through.

    They do not categorize it as abuse.

    So let’s assume there is a tribe deep in the jungle who believes that cutting off their child’s ear will help them achieve great success in life. Would you say they are good parents, who care about their child’s happiness?

    And that it makes sense to justify the practice of ear-cutting, because children from that tribe all achieve a great success?

    All I have to say is “Yes” and “Ok” and “Good” and “I’m fine” and “Nothing special happened” and etc and then I can just go back to minding my own business. Been doing this for 2 years now and I barely have to go through any actual emotional abuse through the calls cause all I have to do is pretend to agree and then they leave me alone. It just gets annoying sometimes since I feel the urge to correct them when they say something wrong but other than that, I am completely fine. I am protecting myself by avoiding confrontation.

    Yes exactly, that’s called fawning, as I’ve already explained. It is appeasing the bully. You are protecting yourself from his even greater wrath, not from his abuse, because you are still exposing yourself to his abuse, every single day. You’re still listening to your father’s lies and insults, him calling you a pig etc. But you suck it up, because if you resisted, you would encounter an even greater wrath.

    That’s not protecting yourself from abuse, Paradoxy. That’s appeasing the bully, so they wouldn’t hurt you even more. And staying firmly in the grip of abuse.

    Yes I tried to make B understand, but that was not because my parents didn’t understand me. I tried to make B understand because I had hoped that she was the love of my life, the woman I would spend the rest of my life with and if I am going to do that, we are going to need to be able to understand each other.

    I’ve explained in great detail how you transferred your longing to be seen and understood from your parents to B (check my post No 431900). She clearly had no empathy or understanding for you, she didn’t care that she was hurting you, and yet you were trying and trying to explain to her why she is hurting and why she should stop doing it. You were speaking to a brick wall, indeed. But the longing (of your inner child) was so strong that you couldn’t let it go.

    If you now want to deny that this is behind your attachment to her, well, it is your right. You can find an alternative explanation for your obsession with B, but it is clear to me that it has everything to do with your unmet emotional needs from childhood.

    You still see it as if I haven’t learnt my lesson. I put up with B’s abuse because I was taught to love one person and one person only, not because I got attached to my bully. It is that moral that makes me one of the most loyal and most trusted persons around here

    Unfortunately it does seem you haven’t learned your lesson, because you are denying the main reason for your attachment to her. The main psychological mechanism behind it. And the problem is that if you keep denying it, you are bound to repeat the same mistakes with another girl, in another romantic relationship.

    And the fact that she is my first real love makes it even harder for me to detach because it is the first time my love has been reciprocated in real life and I had invested too much into the relationship for me to just throw away.

    Yeah it was seemingly reciprocated – she in fact worked hard to catch you in the beginning – but after a mere few days the troubles started. And everything after that was arguments and her lies and excuses and then more arguments, and even bigger lies and secrets coming to surface etc etc. Your love wasn’t reciprocated, even when she pretended to ask for an apology. Because the very next day she would be off, doing her thing, in a resort with suspicious men.

    But none of that was enough to make you see how she is exploiting you and manipulating you. You found an excuse for everything, and not only that, but you believed that you are to blame. Exactly the same thing you are doing with your parents – excusing even the most egregious behavior.

    I have realized that even if I was raised by a different parent, the outcome would essentially be the same. For example, even if I started dating another (ideal) girl or got married or something, I would still not be the son-in-law that my wife/gf’s father would want, which is why I don’t feel good enough to ask out any girl now. And that is not based on my parents at all, it is based on my own observations and my application of psychology to various situations. So essentially there is a degree of truth to what my inner critic says.

    Well of course, having critical and abusive parents influences us in negative ways, e.g. it may influence the person to become an addict. And then they are beating themselves up, believing they are a loser and a nobody, not realizing that the very reason they became an addict is to numb the pain caused by their parents’ upbringing. Just like you wanted to harm yourself. But that’s the consequence, i.e. the result of your parents’ harmful parenting style. Not something you would have done on your own, had they raised you in a loving manner.

    If I was as terrorized as you describe me to be, I would not have even tried to start working on my music, nor would I be rebellious to my parents by dating B, nor even consider the possibility of quitting med and etc. But I have started to work on myself.

    Even if you started dating a girl outside of your religious community, she still was/is a bully, similar to your parents. And so you fell right back into their trap, i.e. in the trap of their parenting.

    Good to hear you are working on your music though.

    nor even consider the possibility of quitting med and etc.

    Does that mean you are considering quitting medicine?

    Take care of them as they age, especially their physical needs

    Well, you can do that without enduring their abuse and without even studying medicine. What you need is to get a decently paid job, in a field that you like and that fits your interests.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    A correction to my last sentence. I don’t think you’d become similar to your father, because he is a bully. I think you would be become a perpetual victim, getting stuck in a relationship with a bully (someone like B), who would abuse you, and you would keep finding excuses for her while believing her accusations that you are actually a bad guy.

    What you need is a different relationship with yourself. You need to start loving yourself and empathizing with your pain. You cannot keep believing your father when he tells you that you are a pig:

    Turns out he was right. I told my guy friend what my dad said and he pointed out that technically I am still a pig cause I am still talking to B despite everything she did, cause she is the mud that I should be staying away from.

    I need proof that they are not speaking the truth. Cause my dad kept pointing out how my scores are so bad and how I am literally the lowest scoring person in my class, barely over the passing mark. I can’t deny that. So with evidence like that, obviously I would believe him.

    In both of those cases, it is what your inner critic is telling you: that you are a pig because you are weak for not being able to cut B off. And that you are a pig (or a loser or whatever other attribute) because you are not getting good grades, studying something you never wanted.

    Your inner critic (which is the internalized voice of your father) is dominating your inner life. Unfortunately, it’s the strongest voice in your head at the moment. It is actually your internal bully, who is terrorizing you.

    If you want to start healing and stop being a victim, you would need to find another voice beside the bully: a compassionate voice. A voice of a good, loving parent.

    If you believe in Jesus, he can be such a compassionate, loving presence in your mind (and heart). In fact, praying to Jesus and asking him to show me his love is what helped me to feel loved for the first time in my life. It was what helped me keep my inner critic at bay, because I suddenly had another voice: the voice of compassion, which could counter-balance the harsh voice of my inner critic.

    Whatever method you choose, I think starting to develop self-love and self-compassion is the path forward.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    What I am saying that except that VERY LARGE AND IMPORTANT AREA, they did everything else right.

    You mean they gave you food and shelter? Sent you to school? Sent you to college? In other words, provided for your physical needs?

    There was no real physical abuse or any other form of horrible treatment.

    There were other forms of horrible treatment: emotional abuse. But you don’t see it as horrible, that’s what I am reacting to. You are relativizing it, saying that at least they haven’t beaten you up:

    I am not the first kid to be going through this kind of experience in our community. In fact I might be one of the kids that were treated the best. One perfect example is the family that lived next to us. They had a daughter and a son, and their father was the type to use his belt to discipline them. One such incident was when the father used his belt on the son for listening to rap music which contained a lot of swear words. Compared to that kind of treatment, my pain would be considered nothing.

    This is to what I am reacting: you believing that the emotional abuse you suffered is minor compared to the abuse suffered by other children in your community.

    Whereas that might be true in the relative sense, the emotional abuse that you have suffered was indeed SEVERE. It was very damaging to your emotional health and well-being, and it is affecting your ability to find happiness in your adult life as well.

    When you say you had it easy compared to others, you are in fact minimizing your own pain and finding excuses for your parents.

    Because the lifestyle that you grew up with is different from ours, you will see it as their intention to raise a slave, even though their real intention/ultimate goal was good.

    Their intention was that you should follow their will. That you should live your life according to their will. They believed they owed you, and have the right to force you to do what they believe is right. They never cared about your emotional well-being and happiness, it wasn’t an issue for them.

    So this is what I see as their intention: not that you be happy, but that you obey and do as they say.

    This might be the intention of every parent is your religious community: to impose their will on their children and dictate their lives, at all costs (even if it causes their children to have a mental breakdown).

    But should we have understanding for those parents? Should we think they wanted the best for their children?

    Your parents knew there is something wrong with how they were treating you, and that they might qualify to be sanctioned, if the authorities get involved:

    at that time they pointed out that if they got taken away by social services, I would essentially be an orphan, and my little sister would be an orphan too and we might have to go through even worse treatment,

    But instead of changing their ways, they continued to treat you the same. They chose their ways as superior, even though they knew it was considered abuse. You said they are old school and against “modern society”. I wonder if they actually believe that a more loving upbringing, which takes into account children’s emotional needs, belongs to the “vices” of the modern society?

    There are multiple paths to achieve the same good result. However, my parents chose the cruel and painful path to push me through. I hate them for driving me down this path, but I understand their ultimate goal. That is the difference you fail to recognize.

    No, your parents’ methods cannot produce a good result. They cannot produce a happy and fulfilled person. Maybe they can produce a good expert, e.g. a good doctor (like in the example you gave). But even that is very questionable because an emotionally abused person cannot be a good, compassionate doctor. Or maybe they can – maybe they have empathy and understanding for their patients, but they don’t have love for themselves, and sooner or later they will burn out and get sick.

    And for that, I will hate them for life. But I will still carry out my duties as their son.

    What are your duties as their son?

    I already have myself protected. I laugh when they say the things they say, to the point they get pissed at how I am laughing every time they try to hurt me. They cannot hurt me anymore, so don’t misunderstand.

    Oh really? Because you said you have tried to talked to your dad and he shut you down:

    I am back at my parents’ place, and it has not even been one week yet and my dad is already pissing me off. Shutting down all my attempts to express my issues, telling me to suck it up and be a man.

    And you have to endure an hour-long phone call with him every day. I don’t see how that is protecting yourself from his abuse?

    I will hate them forever, but that will not stop me from doing my duties as their son

    I am trying to explain to you that “hating forever” is not good for your mental and emotional health. It would be the same as your father’s motto: “suck it up and do your duty”. It would be exactly the same reaction to trauma like your father had to his. Disregarding his emotions and becoming this cold, cruel, “logical” guy, who is unable to empathize with people but is adamant on forcing his will (and opinion) on others.

    If you don’t want to become the same or similar as your father, you’d need to change how you look at this whole thing.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I forgive them, but I will forever hate them.

    This is a contradiction in itself. If you forgive someone, you cannot hate them.

    It’s okay to forgive your parents, but before you do that, you would need to acknowledge how they have actually harmed you, and what emotional needs they’ve failed to meet.

    I think it is safe to say that they’ve failed to meet all of your basic emotional needs, and if you want to heal, you’d need to work on meeting those needs now, in your adulthood.

    There was no real physical abuse or any other form of horrible treatment.

    There was a lot of horrible treatment, but it didn’t involve physical, corporal punishment. Telling you that you are a pig and will forever stay a pig is quite a horrible treatment.

    Physical body heals after abuse (in most cases), but the emotional wounds don’t heal on their own. Emotional wounds are the ones that stay forever, and that have the potential to destroy our life, unless we do something about them.

    If you heal those wounds, you will be able to stop hating your parents, but you will also be able to protect yourself from their abuse.

    I will hate them forever, but that will not stop me from doing my duties as their son.

    The goal is not to keep hating your parents till the rest of your life. The goal is to heal, so you can love – starting with loving yourself. And another goal is to protect yourself from your parents’ abuse and toxicity (which they are still practicing today).

     

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #431991
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey Beni,

    I have been trying to understand the dynamic with your mother, and so far my impression was that she used you to meet her emotional needs, because that’s what you said in the beginning of your thread:

    [I asked you this] So she maybe used you to meet her emotional needs, because her husband was emotionally unavailable? (Perhaps she complained to you about your father or other problems in her life?) That can put a big stress on the child, because the roles are reversed, and instead of meeting our emotional needs, the parent expects us to meet their emotional needs, which we as a child are totally unable to.

    [You replied this] Yes, I belief this is it. I met her a week ago and I saw it in her eyes.

    In your latest post you say she didn’t complain to you directly:

    I think she did not complain to me in a direct way. It would rather be that it’s kinda dependent if the kitchen is in order and that I needed to do what she said else she could loose it. Like she needs an illusion of control.

    From this, it more seems like she complained about you, i.e. was displeased with you, when you didn’t clean the kitchen or didn’t do what she told you to do? And then she would “lose it”, you say.

    Does it mean she would get angry with you, start yelling etc? Or she would start pitying herself, saying something like “No one ever helps me around here. Why can’t you do what I’ve asked you to? Why is everybody so ungrateful when I am doing so much for this family?”

    Or perhaps both? Maybe she would be angry that you didn’t do what she told you to do, and then she would start pitying herself, complaining about her life, perhaps about being disrespected and not cared about by you (and your father and brother)?

    Because my mother was like that – she was strict with me and expected obedience (and I was mostly obedient), but still, in my puberty and adolescence I wasn’t too eager to help in the household. So she would use that to criticize me and then to present herself as a martyr. In fact, she would use every opportunity to pity herself and blame someone for her misery, because she always had complaints about other people, specially about me, my father and my father’s side of the family.

    Like she needs an illusion of control.

    My mother too, she liked to boss me and my father around. She was strict and behaved a little bit like a tyrant within our small family. But to the rest of the world, she presented herself like a meek, nice woman. But within our four walls, she definitely was abusing power.

    I wonder if your mother was abusing power with you, but perhaps was weak with your father?

    My father was a people pleaser, so she could do that with him. But you said that your father was more black-and-white and colder (My dad and brother are more black and white and colder). Perhaps that means that he didn’t really care about her complaints and didn’t try to please her? (and that your brother is similar?)

    I just had a similar situation with her lately. Where she would say I need to do something right now! And I couldn’t do it. I’d just sat and looked at her. I’d have needed to hear her feelings to understand why it was so important and needed to be done right now. I did not understand. She said sorry after and I told her that in a case of emergency I need more information. I can’t take it if it’s being pushed around.

    I understand. You don’t want to be bossed around. Perhaps you were bossed around as a child, and sometimes you tolerated it (because you wanted to please your mother), but at other times you disobeyed and smashed something, hit your own head, etc. Was that the dynamic between you and your mother?

    It’s good that you can now say No to her bossing you around, and that she actually apologized for treating you like that. So it seems that she is getting more insight into her behavior and that therapy is actually helping her…

    You also said in the beginning of your thread:

    I’d reject my mothers kisses and hugs.

    I wonder if she was eager to give you hugs and kisses when you were well behaved, when you were a “good boy” and did everything she told you to? But maybe you felt those were conditional, because she didn’t really care about you and your emotional needs? She only liked you when you were obedient?

    What do you think about daydreaming or imagine future situations, feelings are often included?

    Well, I know daydreaming can be maladaptive, like when we do it to escape our painful reality (because in that imagined future we feel good, we feel loved, and so we escape our grim emotions).

    But imagining future situations – e.g. envisioning what you would like your future to look like – can also be a good thing. If it’s not an escape, but something you actually believe you can achieve.

    Thanks for the word <3

    You are welcome! <3

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    If you still think that I am giving my compassion and understanding to the wrong people, that means u didn’t understand a thing about me

    Well, when you say that your parents did everything right (except some minor stuff), it tells me you don’t really understand how badly they’ve harmed you:

    My parents did everything right, except understanding emotional and mental health. There was no real physical abuse or any other form of horrible treatment. So far, my rebellious self had to find out the hard way that my parents were right about most things. But the things they are still wrong about is mental and emotional understanding etc. Everything related to emotions essentially because they cannot understand it.

    Mental and emotional health are key for us humans. We are not robots. They abused you so severely that you ended up attempting to commit suicide. But after all of that, you claim they did everything right?

    What did they do right? If they harmed a budding human spirit to the point of you wanting to obliterate your existence?

    What is right in not harming your body if they crushed your soul?

    My parents had good intentions, but their actions were wrong

    It seems to me that their intention was to raise a slave, whom they will own and command what to do. Their intention was not to raise a free-thinking individual, who will be in charge of their own happiness.

    So, dear Paradoxy, neither their intentions nor their methods were right.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    What makes her actions even more pointless is that the church still did NOTHING other than tell my parents, despite telling her that my OWN PARENTS are the cause of my suffering. So really, the best thing she could have done was to keep her mouth shut.

    Yes, that’s a tragedy that nothing happened afterwards, that basically the ADULTS at the Church have covered it up. But she, your teenage friend, did well: she did tell her parents that you attempted suicide because of your parents. But that key piece of information got lost, and no one made an attempt to investigate and see what really happened. And to get you a psychologist.

    That was a serious omission by the Church leadership, not by your friend. Your friend did well – she didn’t know what would happen afterwards.

    Tee, it was literally a 10 minute conversation that happened like one time. There is not enough information about me for her to assume that I would indeed kill myself when I CLEARLY STATED THAT I WOULDN’T

    She was just a teen, Paradoxy. As I said, it was too big of a secret to keep. It would have been for anyone, not just for a teen. And she did tell her parents the full truth: that you did it because of your parents. Someone else (most probably the Church leadership) messed up here, not your friend.

    A lot of people randomly state crazy things, even as jokes. Do you see people reporting them all the time for these random claims?

    You actually attempted suicide. It wasn’t just a random statement or a joke.

    Based on her logic, if I had joked about bombing the school or something, she would have probably called the swat team on me before the end of the day.

    Well, if you had been repeatedly saying that you’d bomb the school, and if you showed some other suspicious behavior, then she would have had the right to warn someone. Better to be safe than sorry.

    I am back at my parents’ place, and it has not even been one week yet and my dad is already pissing me off. Shutting down all my attempts to express my issues, telling me to suck it up and be a man. Saying that I never learn my lesson and I am a pig because no matter how many times you bathe a pig, they will run right back into the mud.

    That’s awful how your father is treating you! Is this what he was telling you when your neighbors threatened to call the social services? Throwing at you insults like these?

    Fortunately I am going back to college tomorrow but I still have to endure an hour long call every single day.

    I can imagine how “pleasant” those talks might feel :\

    Everyone has shoved me into this small corner and then they wonder why I am stuck in this corner. Don’t even have the courage to ask a girl out cause of the constant reminder that she is better off without a loser like me, even if she answered yes.

    I am glad that you are becoming aware of who the main culprit is: your parents, and I guess your father being culprit No1. I am glad you are awakening to this.

    Unfortunately, having been treated awfully your entire life made you adopt that false image of yourself: that you are a loser. That you cause people pain.

    Not only are you hearing the same toxic litany about yourself every day, for an entire hour (when your father calls you), but your own inner critic is telling you the same. So you have an outer bully (actually more of them: B included) and your own internal bully, who is telling you horrible things about yourself.

    The task now would be to be aware that these bullies (both outer and inner) are lying. That they are falsely accusing you. Just like B was/is falsely accusing you. That those are all lies and fabrications. Unfair, unjust claims.

    And so, the task at this point would be to simply acknowledge that what they’re saying is not true. The large majority of those claims is simply not true.

    In other words, you would need to recognize that you have external critics (your parents and B), and the inner critic. These critics are lying. They are falsely accusing you. They are pretty merciless too. They have zero empathy and understanding for you.

    I am not sure how I can find people who have some empathy for me when they all push me away anyway.

    Those who are pushing you away are primarily your bullies, your critics: Your parents, B, and your own inner critic.

    Many other people are not pushing you away, e.g. your high school crush, who wanted you to cook for her.

    Even the people you think are against you (like your school friend who informed her parents) are actually NOT against you. They try to help, but you see it as an attack because you are afraid of the bully’s reaction.

    So far (specially in the beginning of this thread) you had endless understanding for B, as well as your parents, and very little understanding for your school friend and for yourself. Your empathy was with the bully, not with the victim (yourself) or those who tried to help you.

    It is time to turn that around, Paradoxy. Give your compassion and understanding to those who deserve it (yourself, people who try to help you), and withdraw it from those who want to hurt you. That’s when your healing can begin.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    There was a mistake with formatting, re-posting below:

    Dear Paradoxy,

    She probably said it to make me feel guilty, but it doesn’t sound completely made up to me, cause based on the type of behavior she has described from him, I am not amazed that a 70 year old man has the logic of a spoiled teenager.

    I wouldn’t believe anything she told you about him, neither about his health nor his marital status or the nature of their relationship. Because she doesn’t have a track record of speaking the truth. And since you’ve never met the guy (you saw him only on the photo she posted on social media, right?), it’s safe to say that you know almost nothing about him.

    But don’t worry, B got a taste of her own medicine when there was an altercation at the resort and the Spanish dude said it was B’s fault even though B didn’t do anything.

    What an idyllic friendship they had, the guy “consoling” her and having understanding for her, when her own boyfriend wouldn’t. And then boom, he falsely accused her of something she hasn’t done. What a friend!

    And now, I guess they’re not on speaking terms anymore, and she cannot ask him to give her money for a much needed laptop. Poor B. (I am being sarcastic here, of course)

    Well, to me, this is just another proof that most of the story she gave you about this guy is bogus. Specially their alleged friendship. Because you don’t falsely accuse a friend. Or she really did something bad, but of course doesn’t want to admit it, as always.

    So anyway, she is lying, this way or another. To me this is clear as day. And so, anything that she told you, i.e. her version of any story, has no credibility. No reason to believe any of it.

    About your guy friend:

    he barely gets himself involved in matters like this.

    Well, he definitely was involved in your story with B, because you confided in him, you talked about it a lot with him. He also seems to have been on your side, because he wanted to help you with getting your stuff from her:

    on that day, I had told my friend that I would be going to her place to collect my stuff, and he joked that I should let him know if I need backup in case she resists.

    So it seems to me that he is involved, and he might have his opinion about B too. But it seems he doesn’t want her to think poorly of him. Maybe that’s why he called her, because she was making false accusations against him as well:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans. So I understand that he was tricked, but why the hell did he call her FIRST????

    So maybe he called her to “justify” himself? Because he didn’t want to be falsely accused by her?

    As for the incident when you were sleeping and she contacted him, asking if you were cheating, it seems to me he pretended to be clueless with her, kind of saying “don’t know, maybe he is (cheating).” This is how he explained it:

    he said that he pretended like he didn’t know so that I get a chance to explain my perspective of things without having a biased opinion.

    This is a very strange answer. It seems to me like an excuse – as if he didn’t want to admit to you that he doesn’t like her and that he did this to piss her off. So I still think he doesn’t like her, but he didn’t want to admit it, after he realized how much you care about her and how much you were upset when he “endangered” your relationship by his stupid remark.

    And I guess that’s why he also said diplomatic things like this:

    he always stated that he expected us to stay together for years cause of how much love we had for each other (the love I had for her).

    You were fighting a lot, breaking up and reconciling all the time. I don’t think he honestly believed it’s a healthy relationship that will last for years. But I think he said it not to hurt you, because he saw how much you love her, how much you want to be with her. And so he just said it, to seem kind. But honestly, I don’t think he really meant it.

     

    When I read her rant to her best friend, I was infuriated enough to message the girl myself to tell her that she shouldn’t be believing everything B says blindly. B saw the msg and she started calling me a psychopath and etc and told me to delete the msg and never msg her friends again cause it is insane.

    That’s typical of her: calling you a psychopath when she was doing exactly the same: messaging your guy friend to ask if you were cheating:

    she messaged him with her suspicion that I was cheating

    She has also stolen your private chat with him (BTW you should never let her get near your phone again!), and was then harassing him to “explain himself”:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans.

    So it’s her typical hypocrisy: lying and then accusing you of lying, hiding an ex in her house and then accusing you that you might be doing the same, stealing a private conversation and harassing your friend and then accusing you of being a psychopath!

    the fighting with B has reached temporary tranquility for now and we are in the phase of moving on.

    Perhaps only because you went home, and she has your laptop anyway, so no reason to torture you? But I guess as soon as you’d mention the laptop again, she would start a barrage of accusations… because that’s how she can discourage you from claiming what is rightfully yours.

    There is a saying “the best defense is a good offense”. She has been playing this tactic all along: in order to escape responsibility for her bad behavior, she has been falsely accusing you (being on the “offense”), therefore removing the focus from herself and making you the problem. The result: she gets to keep doing what she is doing, without any consequences. She keeps behaving badly, without any consequences.

    I’ll reply to the rest of your post in a separate post, a bit later.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    She probably said it to make me feel guilty, but it doesn’t sound completely made up to me, cause based on the type of behavior she has described from him, I am not amazed that a 70 year old man has the logic of a spoiled teenager.

    I wouldn’t believe anything she told you about him, neither about his health nor his marital status nor the nature of their relationship. Because she doesn’t have a track record of speaking the truth. And since you’ve never met the guy (you saw him only on the photo she posted on social media, right?), it’s safe to say that you know almost nothing about him.

    But don’t worry, B got a taste of her own medicine when there was an altercation at the resort and the Spanish dude said it was B’s fault even though B didn’t do anything.

    What an idyllic friendship they had, the guy “consoling” her and having understanding for her, when her own boyfriend wouldn’t. And then boom, he falsely accused her of something she hasn’t done. What a friend!

    And now, I guess they’re not on speaking terms anymore, and she cannot ask him to give her money for a much needed laptop. Poor B. (I am being sarcastic here, of course)

    Well, to me, this is just another proof that most of the story she gave you about this guy is bogus. Specially their alleged friendship. Because you don’t falsely accuse a friend. Or she really did something bad, but of course doesn’t want to admit it, as always.

    So anyway, she is lying, this way or another. To me this is clear as day. And so, anything that she told you, i.e. her version of any story, has no credibility. No reason to believe any of it.

    About your guy friend:
    <p style=”margin-left: .5in;”>he barely gets himself involved in matters like this.</p>
    Well, he definitely was involved in your story with B, because you confided in him, you talked about it a lot with him. He also seems to have been on your side, because he wanted to help you with getting her stuff from her:

    on that day, I had told my friend that I would be going to her place to collect my stuff, and he joked that I should let him know if I need backup in case she resists.

    So it seems to me that he is involved, and he might have his opinion about B too. But it seems he doesn’t want her to think poorly of him. Maybe that’s why he called her, because she was making false accusations against him as well:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans. So I understand that he was tricked, but why the hell did he call her FIRST????

    So maybe he called her to “justify” himself? Because he didn’t want to be falsely accused by her?

    As for the incident when you were sleeping and she contacted him, asking if you were cheating, it seems to me he pretended to be indifferent, kind of saying “don’t know, maybe he is (cheating).” This is how he explained it:

    he said that he pretended like he didn’t know so that I get a chance to explain my perspective of things without having a biased opinion.

    This is a very strange answer. It seems to me like an excuse – as if he didn’t want to admit to you that he doesn’t like her and that he did this to piss her off. So I still think he doesn’t like her, but he didn’t want to admit it, after he realized how much you care about her and how much you were upset when he “endangered” your relationship by his stupid remark.

    And I guess that’s why he also said diplomatic things like this:

    he always stated that he expected us to stay together for years cause of how much love we had for each other (the love I had for her).

    You were fighting a lot, breaking up and reconciling all the time. I don’t think he honestly believed it’s a healthy relationship that will last for years. But I think he said it not to hurt you, because he saw how much you love her, how much you want to be with her. And so he just said it, to seem kind. But honestly, I don’t think he really meant it.

     

    When I read her rant to her best friend, I was infuriated enough to message the girl myself to tell her that she shouldn’t be believing everything B says blindly. B saw the msg and she started calling me a psychopath and etc and told me to delete the msg and never msg her friends again cause it is insane.

    That’s typical of her: calling you a psychopath when she was doing exactly the same: messaging your guy friend to ask if you were cheating:

    she messaged him with her suspicion that I was cheating

    She has also stolen your private chat with him (BTW you should never let her get near your phone again!), and was then harassing him to “explain himself”:

    B kind of tricked him into sharing information with her cause she had exported my entire chat with him. Since most conversations were incomplete continuations of face to face conversations, it lead to her overthinking and misunderstanding the context behind some of the conversations, and by pretending to know everything, she tricked my guy friend into spilling the beans.

    So it’s her typical hypocrisy: lying and then accusing you of lying, hiding an ex in her house and then accusing you that you might be doing the same, stealing a private conversation and harassing your friend and then accusing you of being a psychopath!

    the fighting with B has reached temporary tranquility for now and we are in the phase of moving on.

    Perhaps only because you went home, and she has your laptop anyway, so no reason to torture you? But I guess as soon as you’d mention the laptop again, she would start a barrage of accusations… because that’s how she can discourage you from claiming what is rightfully yours.

    There is a saying “the best defense is a good offense”. She has been playing this tactic all along: in order to escape responsibility for her bad behavior, she has been falsely accusing you (being on the “offense”), therefore removing the focus from herself and making you the problem. The result: she gets to keep doing what she is doing, without any consequences. She keeps behaving badly, without any consequences.

    I’ll reply to the rest of your post in a separate post, a bit later.

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #431916
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey SereneWolf,

    Yaay! I hope it’s still getting better?

    Well, it’s staying stable, that is, not getting worse again, which is good enough for me. It would be better if I could heal completely, but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen, since it has been more than a year now. So this is the next best: low-grade, manageable pain, which I can live with.

    Perhaps some day I’ll manage to “hack” it and heal completely, but I am not hung up on it, because it feels like something I cannot control (beyond a certain point). So it’s better to put my energy into something that I actually can control and where I can make a change…

    Yes Exactly, and I’m good at making various processes much more efficient so now more time on my hands and things get easy for them as well

    Great! It’s a win-win then, and you’re utilizing your skills and talents. Fantastic! 🙂

    Yes and even after all this I know that I’ve been through a lot I managed lot obstacles in the past and I’ve been very resilient. Yet still kinda this empty feeling in my chest of not good enough or whatever it is

    You sure, in the long run this wound heals? Or it doesn’t? And what would be the most effective thing for this? Because this generational trauma is starting to take toll on me.

    It seems there is still an emptiness in your heart (“empty feeling in my chest“), which I think indicates that your inner child still hasn’t received what he needs: love and appreciation. He still hasn’t been told: “you are doing so great! I am proud of you!”

    There is a way to work with our inner child, by visualizing an event from the past and then making an “intervention”, where our adult self stands to defend our child self. And this make our inner child feel differently about themselves and it basically heals the root problem.

    There is a beautiful demonstration of that kind of work in a youtube video by a coach Christine Hassler, called “I Have Awareness But Things Still Aren’t Changing”. The client is a woman, but her story is very similar to yours: a criticizing step-father, which made her to be very judgmental of herself, and she also lacks trust in men, i.e. relationships.

    The visualization exercise with the inner child starts about minute 14, if you don’t feel like watching the entire video. So this is how you can actually heal your inner child, beyond just intellectual understanding. Let me know what you think…

    Yup no urge to fix. I wasn’t even suggesting her what to do. But yeah, she’s definitely not someone that I’d like for a relationship. And She smokes so I’d think twice to even procced anything casual with her.

    Okay, that’s nice that you could simply talk to her with more emphasis on listening, and less on judging or trying to fix her. And while listening, you also had discernment – you noticed some of the behaviors you don’t like and that are potential deal-breakers for you, such as smoking.

    That’s cool! I mean, you can have things that are non-negotiable, that are simply not aligned with what you are appreciating in a person, and it’s okay to respect that.

    But I am thinking about going on dates though. It’s been like more than a month that I’m at my hometown. So it’s time to move, I’ll move to another city with better weather in May.

    So you are thinking about going on dates because you know you’ll be moving soon enough? 🙂 But yeah, do go on dates, it’s a good practice, even a self-observation practice, to see how you react in certain situations. And to sort of dip your toe into the water and do dating without pressure – either on yourself or the other person.

    There was a nurse, She was comparing. They have to measure weight and height of the kids and note those things down. And two brothers was really overweight that the weight scale wasn’t enough for them so she made fun of them and all the kids were laughing at them.

    Oh that’s horrible! Nurses and doctors should know better about the professional (and human) ethics. That was really unprofessional. Maybe you could write a complaint to the kindergarten or the hospital? Because this type of practice should not be allowed. What did your sister say? Was she also disturbed by it?

    I got so much angry but I didn’t want to disrespect a woman inside a hospital there so I controlled myself and stayed calm.

    Yeah, I guess it’s better that you stayed calm in that moment. However you might want to do something about it, since your anger was justified. So perhaps you can save some future kids from a similar humiliating treatment?

    I guess yeah maybe that’s what happened, I need to feel excitement for life again, Because there are just so many fascinating things out there

    It’s been really hard for me get impressed with something or it’s my dopamine levels?

    Maybe that’s the consequence of the same false core belief: “I’ll never be good enough”. Which can be a great killer of joy, because why would you strive for anything if nothing can really make you happy and fulfilled. Perhaps the key word here is fulfillment. Maybe there is a “hole” in your heart, that needs to be filled (with love and appreciation for your inner child). Which will make you fulfilled.

    I suggest you watch that video and see if you resonate with the approach there…

     

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