Dear Caroline,

good to hear from you! I am glad things have improved and your girlfriend is more respectful now.

Also, good to hear that you’ve decided to work less and spend more time together, doing the things you both like. It all sounds promising.

How do you understand intimacy? I am not sure if this is that should be understood from my posts. It’s really hard to describe a whole relationship in couple of posts here, on the forum.

I meant emotional intimacy primarily. Like, being honest with each other about how you feel. Because you said that initially, when you told her you felt disrespected, she withdrew a little and was silent. Polite, but withdrawn. She didn’t share her feelings with you.

Also, you said earlier that you don’t talk much about the stress she might be experiencing at work, although you suspected it was one of the reasons she became more snappy with you in this past year. That’s why I thought that she doesn’t talk much about what’s bothering her, i.e. that she doesn’t talk about her feelings too much.

You too said that till now, you’ve always played “cool” when she was rude to you –  you were afraid to say that you were hurt. But this changed in recent times, and you spoke up, which is great.

Anyway, emotional intimacy (i.e. being open and honest about our emotions) is what I had in mind.

I am glad things seem to be improving though and you’re getting closer to each other again.

Dear Emily,

I got tired of being the helpless victim.

I admire your determination not to bullied and maligned any more. Not to be a helpless victim. Indeed, you were conditioned to be a helpless victim for your entire childhood and youth, and you just took your father’s (and other people’s) abuse without resistance.

This conditioning made you an easy victim. And so later in life, you allowed M to destroy your life, spread rumors about you, cause you to lose your job, have your car tiers slashed. And while you were suffering from a mental breakdown, she moved in with the guy you loved and even received the financial bonus that belonged to you.

And it didn’t happen only with M, but with others too. Your own father spread lies about you, forced you to pay off his debt and blamed you that it was your fault he made bad investments. He even lied to others that you’re refusing to pass your driving test because you don’t want to give rides to him and your mother. He accused you of a malicious intent against him, while it was him who was malicious all long!

He made you seem like a “an incompetant, selfish, useless idiot who was failing in life and he was the heroic father who never made a mistake, did everything for everyone and had to put up with me”.

So he, your own father, was leading an active smear campaign against his own daughter, with the goal to discredit her and use her for his purposes, while at the same time keeping a false image of being a hero and a good father to the outside world.

An abuser pretending to be the savior, and the victim made to be an abuser!

This was horrible, Emily. I hear your pain and outrage, and your determination to never allow it again. And you’re right that you wanted to rectify some things and prove that you’re innocent, specially to people whom you respect and who were fooled by your father’s lies:

Having things stolen from me or getting harrassed/threatened or having people I respect accuse me of things and avoid me for ages because they’ve been told something that isn’t true is a far worse loss to me.

So yes, I totally understand your fierce determination to protect yourself against the abuse hurled at you. But I also believe that you need to stop all contact with your father.

Are you still living with your parents btw? Are you in daily contact?

Because it’s not the same thing to live in a snake pit, or to walk in the forest and be bitten by a snake. There is a much higher chance of being bitten if you live in a snake pit or communicate with a snake daily.

I think your goal should be to separate yourself from your father as much as possible, in every aspect: from housing, financing, assets, spending time together, allowing him to participate in your life in any way. You don’t want to ruin your life by fighting him – you need to get out from his sphere of influence. So he cannot bite you any more.

As for him spreading rumors, you cannot stop that, he’ll always do that. What you should care about it that people you care about and respect know the truth. Not everyone should know the truth. You cannot put it on billboards. Only the people your opinion matters to you – you make sure they know the truth.

There are many people who believe a narcissists – so called flying monkeys – you can’t convince them anyway. They will rather blame you and believe the narcissist. They will even attack you in the name of the narcissist.

Some among the flying monkeys might believe you need help because your father told him how incompetent and messed up you are. Maybe they are the people “with very fragile, overblown egos, who want to be the hero and act like they are helping this incompetant little woman (even the women, as in hindsight a lot of them initially tried to have this weird dynamic with me where they acted like a big sister/mother).”

Do they come with “good intentions”, all instructed by your father, and want to meddle in your life and try to “help”? And then you get triggered by their patronizing and you send them away, and that’s how conflict ensues?

The narcissist usually has a network of useful idiots (flying monkeys) who do his dirty bidding. Some of them are really naive and don’t understand how manipulative the narcissist is. Some are similarly narcissistic and love to put other people down.

So perhaps what you’re experiencing are the attacks of the people in your father’s orbit?

Hi Beni,

Also what I really wanna strengthen is the opposite of the poor boy story.

I learned last year to say that I’m poor. Usually I would project it onto something else. I’ve have the always smile poker face. It’s hard to know how I feel for others and also for myself. It’s difficult to cry. It feels safe to hide and not to get attention.

I don’t complain in front of other people because I’m afraid they don’t like me. I want to complain more in front of other people. I think when I do it in a:” I’m not giving away my responsibility to you” or in a: ” I’m not trying to prove to you that I’m poor”. More in a : ” oh, look I feel really poor and it’s real but you don’t need to worry. I’m glad you listen to me” way. It can be wholesome.

Alright, I think I get it: you used to hide your sadness, you didn’t want people to know that you’re in pain (I’ve have the always smile poker face. It’s hard to know how I feel for others and also for myself.)

But last year you started opening a little and admitting when you’re sad (I learned last year to say that I’m poor). You don’t do that to get people’s sympathy and “extract” love from them, but simply to share your feelings, to not hide your feelings any more, right? (More in a : ”oh, look I feel really poor and it’s real but you don’t need to worry. I’m glad you listen to me” way)

It can be wholesome.

Definitely, that can be wholesome. I am glad you’re opening more, even if it’s still hard for you to show vulnerability. For example, it’s still hard for you to ask people for help when you have physical injury.

You say you don’t want to complain to people because you’re afraid they won’t like you (I don’t complain in front of other people because I’m afraid they don’t like me). But you want to change that attitude and be more open about your feelings. You don’t want to pretend that you’re fine when you’re not necessarily.

That’s all great, Beni. You’re trying to be more authentic and not be afraid to show weakness or vulnerability. You are not less lovable because sometimes you need help or you are sad or frightened. You mother might have taught you you shouldn’t have needs, or that you are selfish if you have needs. But that’s not true.

So it’s okay to show vulnerability. In fact, vulnerability is our secret strength, because it enables us to be authentic, to be ourselves. And being authentic is I think super powerful.

I belief as soon as I say something which could trigger people or create disconnection. I panik.

Perhaps when you share that you’re sad and show some vulnerability, you start feeling uncomfortable and you panic? Maybe you fear that people with reject you, and then you quickly try to downplay what you said, like “oh but it’s not such a big deal, I am not that bad actually, I am fine”?

What I wanted to say above was that my mom started crying and she was like that’s not fair and so and so. And I rubbed her head and told her “oh you poor beeing”. In a loving way. And I think I could tell her child that it’s alright. And I want to do that with me too.

That’s nice of you. I think you showed empathy for her. Not pity in a negative sense.

I look at this video which is new to me. I’d say when I talk to people I’m actually afraid that they might get it as sympathy. I think because I don’t want it at all. And it’s easy to say empathic things out of sympathy. It’s when you do it like in the textbook. It feels disconnected.

I think I know what you mean. When you express concern or care for someone, you don’t want it to sound like pity (or sympathy, as defined in that video). And yes, some people say nice things but don’t really mean it. They don’t really empathize with the person. But I guess you do mean it. So the intention is important. Don’t worry that you’ll sound insincere. If your intention is to show sincere concern, that’s what matters the most.

I’d say I’d fit in that people pleaser concept. I’d say it’s not love then, because you don’t give for free. When I do that I give out of desire and I suffer afterwards.

Do you say to people what you believe they want to hear? Do you do favors for them because you’re afraid they’ll reject you if you set boundaries? I am just curious: how do you think you people please?

Yeah, I think I am still impatient. I tell him. Okay, I already gave you a month, how much more time do you need? And I’m like ah okay you want this okay have it. Now be happy. But I see now that’s not what he actually needs.

Yeah, that’s not really compassion if you’re impatient and rushing him to feel better. It’s like having expectations on your inner child. Whereas what he needs is unconditional acceptance. I am glad you’re starting to realize that.

Yes, I told her then: “I don’t want to answer to you if you look at me like this”.

Oh so she is looking at you with self-pity, but then asks you how you are, right? And so you refused to answer, because you know her intention. Good for you! Yeah, it’s good you don’t allow yourself to be manipulated but could actually see through her and refuse to take part in her little game. What did she tell you in response? Did she get offended?

Dear Katrine,

happy to hear your heel is completely healed. Yes, do those exercises if they can prevent it from happening again!

I hope therapy will help a little. Let me know how it went…

Dear Emily,

I don’t want to date/marry someone that is emotionally avoidant or who just wants to use me. I preferred those men when I was younger, as I thought that was all I deserved. But that’s changed now. I know I deserve to have a partner that treats me well.

I am glad that you are clear about your own worth and that you wouldn’t settle for a lesser treatment any longer. It’s also good that you refused to be K’s shoulder to cry on and someone to keep him company in his misery. Good for you!

If women can be rewarded with love and marriage for treating men like trash, then at the very least I should be rewarded the same for not treating men like that. In an ideal world, I would be treated better than those women, but I appreciate that’s not how it works

You did experience a lot of betrayal, both by men and women, since you were young. M is an epitome of a predator woman, who not only took away the man you loved, but also managed to force you out of your job (I was eventually forced out of my job and at this point I was really depressed as my reputation had been ruined).

She got a job at the same place where you worked and even received the financial reward that was due to you: To make things worse, the colleague got M a job at the same office and due to the timing she ended up getting credit (and the financial reward) for all of my hard work over the previous year.

This does sound like a nightmare, Emily, and I cannot even imagine the depths of the betrayal you felt. Because what she did was evil – she basically tried to ruin your life, so you wouldn’t get near her prey (K).

I want to find someone that can at least treat me like an equal partner, be open and honest and loyal and not abusive. But just because I believe I deserve that doesn’t mean other people do, and so far I haven’t met any healthy men that are a match who want to date me. So it feels as if I’m always having to pick the ‘least bad’ option or just stay alone forever. And both are painful.

It could be that you harbor the belief that “No one respects me”, or “There are no decent men out there.” Even if you believe that you deserve a good man, you don’t really believe that there are good men out there, men who would actually treat you with respect. This is what I am picking up from your words.

So perhaps there is a subconscious belief that all men are crooked and they all want to take advantage of you. Do you think this could be the case?

I seem to attract emotionally dead people in other areas of my life too. Which makes me think I’m giving off some kind of signal that makes people assume I’m an easy target. I don’t look physically intimidating, so I think people assume they can get away with whatever and I can’t/won’t fight back.

Are you saying that in real life, people treat you with disrespect? Or they try, and then you react strongly (you fight back), and then they are surprised?

I prefer talking to people online, as they tend to assume I’m either a guy and/or much older and talk to me like an equal. In real life it’s very different.

Okay, so online they don’t see that you are a woman, and from your words and stance they assume you are a guy, and so you feel they respect you more?

I’ve cut ties with a lot of the toxic people I grew up with, as they didn’t want me to change and improve my life. So I have less drama to deal with there. The relatives that I still have to speak to are slowly getting the message not to drag me into things or try to blame me for their screw ups. But it’s still their default response a lot of the time, as for years I would just sit and take it. That’s always been my ‘role’, and it’s difficult getting other people to accept that has changed. It feels as if I have to keep a permanent barbed wire fence around me now, as I’m constantly having to defend myself and remind people to treat me with basic respect. Which I guess is better than being the doormat/punchbag I was for the first 30 years of my life. But it gets tiring. I don’t know why it’s so difficult for people. I spend a lot more time alone these days, as I get exhausted being on guard all the time.

It’s good that you’ve cut ties with the toxic people you grew up with. But it seems there are still relatives who blame you for their mistakes. You say you still have to speak to them (can’t cut ties with them), but it seems you’re having trouble getting the message across to treat you with respect. They try to treat you like a doormat/punchbag (like they used to before), but now, instead of allowing it, you fight it and try to remind them to treat you with respect.

So you’re in a constant state of stress (fight mode) and you feel like you need to “keep a permanent barbed wire fence around me”, or else they would start treating you like a doormat again, right?

I am sorry you can’t cut ties with those people too. Is it because of your niece, whom you said you want to be there for and serve as a role model for?

Because if you constantly need to be on guard and demand basic respect, that is tiring. I could do that only for a limited period of time. So if you cannot cut ties, can you at least reduce it?

If you have to this going on in your family (basically verbal and emotional abuse), no wonder you feel like going into a combat zone every time you talk to them. And no wonder the belief that “no one respects me” gets reinforced. Perhaps that’s why you feel you need to defend yourself/fight back even in ordinary situations, with normal, non-abusive people. So everybody becomes an enemy and a potential threat, even people who are not abusive?

Hi Adam,

I am glad that I’m noticing the changes now. I honestly don’t think I would even want to ever connect with my ex again and that’s a thought I haven’t had before.

Wow, that’s amazing! I am happy that something in you shifted and you don’t feel that strong pull that you felt before. I am so glad!

I am trying to pace myself more, I still want to experiment and see other people so I am not putting all my eggs into one basket this time.

I will do my best not to rush, I don’t plan on jumping into anything this time. I rather delay it as long as possible but I don’t want to push people away either.

Good! Yeah, you don’t need to reject people, but try to make sure you’re on the same page regarding big issues such as marriage and kids. Also, can you be authentic around her, or you need to watch your every word because she gets offended easily etc. So all in all, is it someone who is mostly emotionally healthy, or is it another difficult, hard to please girl (the kind you were attracted to so far).

I look back now and realise why I felt so strongly for my ex and how we started was a big thing for me. She really did chase me at first and I liked that.

Well, then watch out with your new date, because she too is chasing you 🙂 No, just kidding. But do pay attention to the things I’ve mentioned above. Of course, you won’t be able to spot everything immediately, but over time. So perhaps don’t allow yourself to fall in love and start wearing rose colored glasses too soon, but be a little more observant, so that you can really see her for what she is, not how you would like her to be.

Yeh gaming and smoking go hand in hand usually. But at the moment I haven’t been gaming at all. Barely looked at a screen in the last month besides my phone, there’s just no desire.

Interesting. Perhaps something shifted there too, and you were more focused on working out and keeping your house clean (sort of productive activities), rather than fun/entertainment activities.

I think I relied on partners for something to do and a way to keep occupied also. I don’t feel motivated to even watch a movie by myself, for some reason it only feels special and enjoyable with someone for an example.

Yeah, it seems you need a romantic partner to do fun stuff together, it seems you don’t feel the motivation to do it alone. Because it’s not enjoyable. I can understand you. I think it’s because for you, the connection and bonding is what’s the most pleasurable in an activity. The activity itself can be fun, but it’s not very pleasurable if you have to do it alone. I get it, I too can be like that.

But at the same time, if you have trouble feeling good in your own company, and are often feeling bored, it can be a sign that you don’t have a good relationship with yourself. For example, that you have an inner voice that criticizes you, or that you’re reluctant to feel negative feelings so you stay on the surface and don’t know yourself deeply, or you believe you’re not good enough or interesting enough, and so spending time with yourself isn’t pleasant. Anyway, these are just examples of what can prevent us from feeling good and actually enjoying our own company. Perhaps some of this resonates with you?

Hi Freddie,

you are very welcome, and I hope you can keep in mind the big picture, even if right now your emotions prevail and you want her back, regardless of the big picture.

Just beating myself up a lot and I’m so angry at myself cos I feel I should have done more to save us and that I sabotaged something good. I know I’m probably looking at her through rose tinted glasses at the moment

Yes, you are, you are focusing on the good parts and forgetting the bad parts of the relationship. You were hooked by what she told you in May:

She kept saying how much she loved me and that she couldn’t see herself with anyone else, so stupidly I thought I had time to get myself together and improve for when we got back together.

And then broken when she quickly found someone else:

I’m also really confused how she can have such a quick turnaround herself after saying what she said to me then meeting someone so quickly and wanting to give it a go with him. … I still don’t understand how she could turn off her feeling like that.

It seems that her finding someone else triggered the “I am not good enough” wound. And all you can think about at the moment is to show her that you are good enough. And that’s why you want her to give you another chance. At least that’s how it seems to me.

In addition, she was putting all the blame on you, she accused you of the breakup. Not only that but even her friends accuse you of the breakup. So that too is a huge pressure on you, because you are quick to blame yourself. And now you want to prove both to her and to the world that you are NOT this terrible person that she is accusing you to be. That too I think is a reason why you want to go back and have another chance.

So it’s like you want to prove that you are a good person and not a terrible person. And you want to prove it to her. Does this ring true?

Whereas the solution would be to heal this wound and to finally realize that you are a good person and that you have the right to happiness and to your needs being met. That you are not a horrible person for wanting good things for yourself. That you have the right to protect yourself from bad things. That this doesn’t make you a bad person.

So, instead of going to her to prove that you are a good person, you’d need to work with yourself (including your inner child) to heal the wound.

At least that’s what I see as a way to true healing…

Hey Chris,

you’re welcome! I am glad you’ve come a long way since then and that you don’t feel a spiritual void any more, and also are much more stable and not addicted to anything in excess. Good for you!

I do hope you’ll feel better about yourself, even if this breakup caused you a great heartbreak and regret.

I don’t have the energy to be anything but someone who is the recipient of any kind of affection or interest, I am so low on any ability to be assertive or “outward”. I am hurting so much.

Perhaps what you need at the moment is lots of compassion, understanding and non-judgment. The best to receive this is from a therapist or a support group, not necessarily from a romantic partner. Because romantic partners do have expectations on us, while a therapist doesn’t. We can show up as we are, unfiltered, and we will be accepted. That might help you charge your “batteries” and only receive, rather than needing to give or perform or please anybody. What do you say?