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SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
I combined the both parts of relationshipsā¦
Yes, I can imagine. If you believe that others will hurt you and that you can actually do pretty well alone, then sure, I see why you didnāt want to build relationships, not only romantic but friendships either, if I understood you well? Btw, did you have close friends as a child?
Yes only one but even with him there was different kind of communication mostly we would just play with each other and just talk about crazy ideas and we were both brilliant students.
Ā
Yeah, your lack of trust has developed gradually, with your parents (and I guess other adults too, like your grandfather?), in your childhood. And it remained a blueprint for how you view all other relationships. Even if you meet kind and loving people, your core belief (āI cannot trust peopleā) will be still working in your subconscious and will make you guarded and cautious.
I thought about it and I think itās that feeling like unconditional love doesnāt exist so they must be need me for something thatās why theyāre being nice.etc
Right. That means your intention is pure, and you have no expectations from the person to āpay you backā. Perhaps what youāve experienced in your childhood is some kind of manipulation/transactionality, either on your own skin or in your family? That people would only help each other if they saw personal gain in it?
I guess I did hear things like that in my teenage like āpeople are just there for their meansā and even I saw things like that in adult life too.
Ā
I guess that in that relationship too, you didnāt dare to show your own vulnerability, your own weaknesses, but you (actually both of you) were focusing mostly on her weaknesses, right? Like, she was the āprojectā that you were working on, and it wasnāt coming along well. And so you were getting frustrated, and she was feeling guilty etc etc.
Yes you put it in the right words. We did take it like a āprojectā
Ā
Even if youād like to trust her, I think you still donāt trust her. Because the false core belief (āI cannot trust othersā, or āOther people will hurt meā) is still activeā¦
At friendship level I do trust lately I found that itās really easy for me to make friends. I made two friends and much younger than me and both are quite understanding and mature and Iām trying to be more vulnerable with them since they donāt shy away to be vulnerable with me. But when it comes to romantic relationships thatās where trust is no more
Ā
Would to ālet looseā mean to get āmadlyā in love, which means youād become too distracted and not able to function properly?
It seems you believe that if you fall in love, youāll be too vulnerable, too distressed, not focused enough, and theyāll be able to prevent you from even reaching your goals, your career goals etc. Like, that the person you love will prevent you from reaching your goals and dreams. Could it be it?
Kind of yes because I noticed that I always loved hard. I havenāt been taught to love in a soft way. And thatās why it hurts more too. Thatās why just another day we were talking and I told my friend itās better to be in serious relationship after I reach a certain life and career goals that I have.
I am just thinkingā¦ betrayal of trust can happen if we open up and show vulnerability, and the other person ridicules us, shames us or uses it against us. Or it can happen if they promise us something and never deliver. And I guess it can also happen if they shame us and criticize us all the time (like your father and my mother did), and we can never trust that they wouldnāt hurt us. I wonder if any of these reasons resonate with you?
Hmm I think āthey promise us something and never deliverā this have happened many times in my previous relationship. But later on I told myself some people just donāt change why Iām giving too many chances.
What prompted you to do that?
Because I did started to like her and I got scared that what if I attached to her?
Ā
Are you still FWB, if I may ask?
Not really. We just had a meal together, went to the museum and a just cheek kisses.
As in: nothing is wrong with the girl, but you still donāt want it. At least this is what Iām hearingā¦
And thatās how fear works: it is irrational, itās not based on our current reality, but on our old wounding. And it overpowers usā¦
I think yeah we can say that.
I hear what youāre saying, but it actually carries in itself a false belief: that if you focus on your career, you canāt be in a committed relationship. That those two are mutually exclusive. That love and career donāt mix, i.e. that they are in competition with each other. If that were true, then married people, or people in committed relationships, wouldnāt be able to have successful careers at all.
You do have a good point but where I come from itās like a mindset like mostly on guys have the pressure to do something for women they donāt have high hopes or put pressure to be something like yeah she can always find a rich husband but a for a guy, he got to be something good. I do believe in equality but it’s the environment around me.
Actually, it might be a good exercise to journal about this: āIf I fall in love, thenā¦.ā Write down everything that comes to mind. What would you lose, or what kind of setbacks you believe you would experience if you fell in love. Maybe it will help you to get to the bottom of your fearā¦
Ohh thatās very good idea, Thanks! Iāll take time for this and write down and see what comes in my mind.
SereneWolf
ParticipantOkay, so you believe you need to achieve the same as someone else, and then if you donāt, you beat yourself up, you feel bad about yourself (I feel guilty), and then your performance gets even worse (I procrastinate a lot).
Comparison with others is something you were exposed to during your entire childhood: both your father and your grandfather were comparing you with other kids all the time, right? And now you are doing it to yourself. Youāve internalized your father and grandfatherās voice and it became a part of your inner critic. So comparing yourself to others is another way of telling yourself āI am not good enough/successful enough/rich enough/high on the ladder enoughā.
Thatās why you āfeel like times is passing too fastā (the title of your thread) ā because there is a pressure to perform, to achieve, to push, push, pushā¦ because someone else is doing it better and faster than you.
Would you agree with that?
Yes I agree with that and thanks for that reminder again. I need to write this down again because apparently I do need this same reminder repeatedly time to time.
Comparing ourselves to others is very toxic ā it doesnāt motivate us but makes us feel like a failure. Itās not like a positive encouragement, but it always comes with a lot of self-judgment. And it eventually prevents us from thriving, because we feel like a failure, and so we self-sabotage.
So my suggestion is to stop the comparison. See it for what it is: a toxic feature of your inner critic, something youāve learned from your father and grandfather.
There is a great youtube video āHow to stop comparing yourself to othersā, which just popped up in my feed, by Therapy in a nutshell. She says some fantastic things, e.g. that by comparing ourselves to others, we believe that our worth is dependent on how we score compared to others, how many people are above us or below us on the āranking listā. And this always lead to disappointment because someone will always be better and more successful than us.
Bottom line: by comparing ourselves to others we are allowing our worth (which is inherent) to be dependent on external factors. And we are setting ourselves up for failure.
Yes! Youāre right thatās why one of the reasons Iām using LinkedIn much less than before. Mainly for communication and network building. Because it would give me that āranking listā pressure even more
A better approach, she says, is to focus on integrity (living in accordance to your true values) rather than comparison. Here is an example: if we want to lose weight, the comparison mindset would say āOh, Martha is in a such a great shape. I have to lose weight already!ā Whereas the integrity mindset would say āMy health is important to me. I will cut down on junk food and exercise more, because I want to be healthy.ā
I found this pretty cool: integrity mindset vs comparison mindset. Never heard it described this way, and loved it!
Anyway, just wanted to share thisā¦
Thanks for the example I guess one way or another subconsciously I am comparing myself with others and I agree and āliving in accordance to your true valuesā I did journal about this quite a while ago and I put lot of thought into that but so many things came up yet I still wrote it down. So I believe (not 100% sure) that my core values are Freedom, Simplicity, Honesty and Altruismā¦with added Open mindedness, Adventure, Wisdom, Faith and Inner peace. But how can I be sure what are my true values?
How have you been? I hope you are fineā¦
Well, Healthwise Iām doing alright but last week when I went for donate my blood, they gave me this report and told me that I have to gain my weight and hemoglobin %
And Idk whatās happening, because Iām rarely eating out and 99% of the time Iām having home cooked meals mostly full of green vegetables curries.
How about you? In your condition healthy food can make a difference?
SereneWolf
ParticipantBonjour Tee,
How are you doing?
First of all, Iām really happy because I finally got the job! And in sustainability sector, Something that Iām passionate about, And fully remote, and very well paid!
Iām just really grateful!!!Although because itās been so damn long my mind just giving me doubts and fears even though I finally did it so Iām not able to celebrate it with all my senses!
Thank you for your understanding, you are very kind. I did feel guilty multiple times for not responding, but I felt so paralyzed. But when you wrote last week, I sort of woke up and told myself ācome on, enough of this self-pitying, itās time to reply!ā So thank you, you helped me wake up from my slumber š
Ohh Thanks I’m glad! You were and are still helping me throughout my mental health so at least I’m able to help a little haha
Ā
Thanks, yeah, those are some real challenges, both health-wise and career-wise. But yeah, I hope Iāll be able to keep defrosting š
I understand but I think if you’ll fight with both it won’t be that effective imo. So what do you think what would happen if you only have choice to focus on one thing instead of both?
Ā
Oh, so you broke up? Would you like to share some more, like how it happened?
Well it’s not like we were in relationship to begin with… I was already trying to detach myself and spend much less time with her and then she got promoted and she had a choice of two cities and she chose another city.Ā But we’re still in touch. We talk sometimes. And when she was in the city few weeks, we did spend some time together.
But I think you will only be ready once you heal those fears and lack of trust in people. So my advice is to work on your relationship fears as well, donāt just focus on your career. Because focusing only on your career is an avoidance strategy too. Itās easier for you. But itās not helping, on the long-runā¦
Yes you’re right but the thing is career is like a important for financial security so obviously I’m gonna give priority to that. And just few days ago one of my friend told me something that really struck me. So when I moved to new place even there this stray cat started coming and I started feeding but it’s been more than 2 months and my friend asked me what did you named her?? I was like why name?? And then she was like you’re so scared of attachment you’re not giving cat a name! I’m not telling you possess her. You’re way into detachment.
And then I was thinking I’m practicing detachment because I have a fear of getting attached or it’s something else?
Yeah, I hear you. I know this dichotomy very well: on the cognitive level, you know you are good enough and you try to be positive. But deeper, emotionally, on the inner child level, you feel helpless and alone. And losing hope, sometimes. For me, this hopelessness and helplessness got activated with my back injury and other health issues. That triggered it, but Iāve realized this feeling was always in me, only I wasnāt aware of it. And now it came to the surface. And there is no other way but to tackle itā¦
I know right itās like that underlying pain. And then that smile we trying to have feels kind of less genuine.
Iāve just dug up a youtube video on negative core beliefs, by my favorite online therapist, Barbara Heffernan. There is a link to the pdf file below the video, where she explains how to transform those beliefs. The video is titled āCore Beliefs CBTā. Highly recommended. Iāve just done the exercise in the pdf file, for transforming the core beliefs. Let me know if youāve tried it.
Thanks for sharing Iāll watch it and let you know.
I am sorry youāre not seeing your therapist any more. Is she still having problems with her eyes?
Yes and recently grandson in the family so sheās giving all her time to daughter and lil baby.
Ā
No, I canāt think of myself as reckless. I donāt think my inner child ever wanted to be reckless š But it would be nice to ājust do itā, without too much rumination. And I wouldnāt do reckless things, but good things, things that I love. So perhaps a curious child, enthusiastic child, would be a better fit š But thanks for the idea to involve my inner child in her āoriginal formā, while she was still not frightened and stifled by my motherās programming. I like it, Iāll see if it worksā¦
Right! Enthusiastic and curious are better choice of words. Let me know if it works
Ā
Yes! Discovering our false beliefs and then counteracting them is super powerful. Iāve just learned from Barbara Heffernanās video that our core beliefs donāt reside in our cognitive brain, but in our limbic brain. Thatās why we canāt overwrite them by simply thinking positively. We need to dig deeper into our old emotional experiences and re-write them as wellā¦ and thatās what her method should help in.
Oh I see, Thatās why it hasnāt been easy.
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
I can imagine how excessive self-reliance is depleting you quickly. And then you blame yourself when youāre burnt out and havenāt succeeded in your (Herculean) task. Youāre expecting a lot (too much) of yourself, you give yourself (too) big tasks, and then youāre putting yourself down when you donāt succeed. Would you agree with that?
I mean I donāt know if Iām expecting a lot and I might be comparing myself with others here like others are already doing it then I can do it too. So I tell myself itās doable. Because I think some people are dealing with more things than me yet still reaching their goals and finishing tasks then I can do it too. And whenever I try to give excuses to myself about something I feel guilty and yet still lot of times I procrastinate a lot.
Yeah, your lack of trust has developed gradually, with your parents (and I guess other adults too, like your grandfather?), in your childhood. And it remained a blueprint for how you view all other relationships. Even if you meet kind and loving people, your core belief (āI cannot trust peopleā) will be still working in your subconscious and will make you guarded and cautious.
Yes, we can change our modus operandi. A part of it is changing our false core beliefs. Mine would be āI am helplessā. Yours would be āI have to rely on myselfā.
I agree it makes me remember our conversation about old beliefs and I guess therapy did helped a bit but not very significant. And just Iām not seeing therapist anymore. I do try to journaling and work on removing my old beliefs and rooted fears. What kind of things that I can do to remove my old beliefs and rooted fears more efficient way? Kinda like rewiring our brain you know
Yeah, I think the key issue for my father was his own upbringing with a āmartyrā covert narcissistic mother and him always suppressing his needs to trying to make his mother happy. That was what formed him. And my mother was a similar āmartyrā (in her own eyes), though not narcissistic. But his dynamic was similar: trying to please and appease his mother, and later his wife. So there was no way he would stand up for himself. I mean, he did have success in his career, but he was pretty suppressed at home.
For your mother, she was perhaps financially dependent on your father as well, so that came into play as well? And the whole patriarchy thing, which I guess was still strong while you were growing up, right? So I can see why it might have been more difficult for her to standup for herself than it was for my father.
Ah similar because my mother is also suppressed at home. Itās not like before but still yeah. And yeah patriarchy thing is really strong in small village environment.
No, I donāt believe I am unworthy any more, but I still have a lot of procrastination when it comes to my career and the things Iād like to achieve. Itās like I am frozen a bit. And having all these health issues, and worrying about them, isnāt helping either: it makes me worry about it and ruminate and I end up feeling paralyzed. Like, I know what I want, but I am not working towards it.
Itās related to my childhood āfreezeā I think, where my mother feared too much for me and was the happiest when I was by her side, in āsafetyā. Riding a bike was seen as risky by her, so my parents never bought me a bike and I never learned how to ride (I think Iāve told you that already). So itās this ādeep freezeā, deep fear of facing challenges.
Ah I see, I know itās not easy for you but have you ever tried being a reckless child at this age? Like I donāt care what happens to me I want to do it means I want to do it. I guess because concerned and matured adult would think and ruminate a lot. Reckless child wouldnāt. and who knows you can get good results although itās something really out of your comfort zone but something that you can try and feel like you got the power.
And once you got taste of that feeling I guess your fear and anxiety would slowly disappear.
Yeah, it seems your sense of not being good enough manifests in you pushing yourself above the limits, expecting too much of yourself (and believing you need to do it all by yourself). Whereas for me, I am not pushing myself at all, I am frozen. Again, we have the opposite reaction to a similar injuryā¦
Itās like you would need to tell yourself:Ā āI am good enough and I am doing enoughā. And I would need to tell myself āI am good enough and I can do this next step.ā Perhaps š
Haha yeah, youāre right. Well, we got to try. Right!?
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
ehhh I know, itās been a long time, and Iāve disappeared again š
Itās mostly because of health issues, larger and smaller, which have been causing me health anxiety. Itās like I do have real health issues (I am not imagining it), but then my fear and worry about it make things worse. It occupies me, and itās hard to focus on anything productive, including posting here on the forum.
So yeah, I am sorry for not responding and disappearing yet againā¦ And I thank you for being so kind and checking in on meā¦ I really appreciate it, SereneWolf.
It’s totally fine I can understand. I wanted to know if you’re getting better, but thanks for responding. I know your health issues aren’t easier, so I hope it gets better and I also hope that you get more courage and love over anxiety for your health.
How have you been?
I’m doing ok. Trying for my self-esteem issues and love myself more. But I believe I’m getting better. I’ve completely focused myself for my career. No situationships for now. Although my sister and brother-in-law kinda on a mission to find a girl for me and convince me to get married and I know their intention aren’t wrong and also started to tell me lot of good aspects from the right partner and marriage, so I’m not scared about marriage as I used to. Since I’m seeing a good thing about it. But I’ve told them only to start look for girls when I tell you that I’m ready. and they agreed.
And lately I do try to be grateful and positive within, yet I still feel alone and helpless and losing hope sometimes. But I’m still being resilient. I’m trying to listen to Inner positive voices like Krishna and Uncle Iroh like and try to feel like someone’s watching over me and they got my back and things will get better.SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
I hope you’re in good health. Just wanted to check in.
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
No, I live in an apartment building. I meant that in general: that rain is good for the crops out there in the fields š
Oh I see, I agree though here I like the starting of the winter the cool breeze and lot of fresh green veggies available to cook
Yeah, I guess so. Itās my learned helplessness that was telling me differently. Thatās what Iāve realized recently: that I adopted learned helplessness in many areas of my life (due to my childhood and upbringing), and itās been a slow process to āunlearnā it. The most recent but long-lasting example is my health problems, which triggered a lot of my childhood trauma.
And it actually occurred to me that youāre the opposite of me in that sense: whereas my āmodus operandiā is learned helplessness (believing that I am weak, and relying too much on other people to help me/save me), yours seems to be excessive self-reliance, to the point to pushing other people away. In other words, I am too needy, while you seem to be not needing anyone, or rather, not wanting to need anyone.
Oh I see, I didnāt know so thanks for sharing. Then how can same kind of wound could have opposite ends of spectrum? Also in my case excessive self-reliance is depleting my energy quickly and burning me out time to time yet still attacking my self-esteem. Like Iād be like I can do it no matter what and then when Iām not able to I blame myself subconsciously. Because in my head Iām like what others can do? I have to rely on myself to get things done.
Because my trust issues adds up in this as well. But we can change our āmodus operandiā right? How you’re still coping with feeling helpless?Both of those are defense mechanisms to a similar type of childhood wounding, but they are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. You had a very criticizing father and a mother who didnāt protect you, whereas for me it was a very criticizing mother and a father who didnāt protect me. Your mother and my father were more interested in keeping the āpeaceā in the house, while less interested in their childās well-being.
My father was more interested in appeasing my mother, than in protecting me. He would minimize and try to explain away my motherās behavior. He was gaslighting both himself and me that what is happening is not a big deal. I believe your mother was the same?
Yeah, I guess my mother thought peace in the family means more than my protection or my mental health and to be honest even now my parents arenāt much aware about like mental health is a thing. They think if youāre getting basic needs, you should be happier and kind of materialistic happiness. Because of the small village mentality. Also My mother did told me most of her life all she did is just calm my fatherās anger because of relatives and other things going on. Which I think is very toxic on my fatherās side. I wouldnāt be able to bear that behaviour any longer thatās why I started living on my own much earlier. I guess she just didnāt think about standing up for herself. Which could be the same case for your father?
Of course, when I was a child I didnāt know that my fatherās silence meant that he isnāt able to confront my mother. Instead, I believed that I was the problem and that my mother is right. My fatherās silence meant a confirmation that I was a faulty child, that something is wrong with me. So he was complicit in my motherās emotional abuse. He was a silent bystander, even though he never personally treated me badly.
Anyway, I believe we got a double whammy of one abusive parent and the other silent/complicit. And it ruined our self-esteem, because the complicit parent didnāt protect us from the abusive one, and so the only message weāve received was that we are bad and faulty. At least thatās the message Iāve received.
Yeah thatās right and I think main issue here is our ruined self-esteem as a result which isnāt easier to heal faster. So now that you are aware that you werenāt the faulty child yet itās still rooted in you? Thatās what you mean?
In my case luckily itās not bad as before (But still) I do feel I have to achieve much more and Iām not good enough just yet.You did say your mother was kind and caring in many instances, and so was my father (specially when it was just the two of us spending time together, going on holidays, hikes etc). But when it comes to confronting my mother about her behavior (both towards me and towards himself), my father was weak. And so her message (that I am not good enough) never got counter-balanced by something positive.
Yeah I think my motherās behaviour was the same.
Maybe I am repeating myself because weāve been talking about this before. But it is what Iāve been thinking recently ā how our defense mechanisms are on the opposite sides of the spectrum. Me: too dependent and needy. You: too āindependentā and not wanting to need anyone.
And it was not that hard for you to opt for total self-reliance ā because you were quite capable and managed to get out unscathed from many tough situations/adventures, without needing your parents to save you. Which I guess strengthened the sense that you donāt need them and can manage on your own (in lot of situations I was alone and I saved my own self. There are some situations where people did helped me but still...)
So once you were old enough (around 16), you stopped relying on your parents for physical survival and sustenance, and you moved out. You didnāt need them for emotional sustenance either, because theyāve hurt you, each in their own way. The result is that you became totally self-reliant. (In comparison, I still felt like a child at 20, and couldnāt imagine to move out and live independently.)
Itās not a bad thing if weāre physically/financially self-reliant (thatās something we should actually strive for as adults ā to be able to support ourselves). But your self-reliance stretches into the emotional realm tooĀ (But basically for relationship youāre right Iāve been hurt and I was alone so I thought just myself is enough).Ā And this is giving you trouble nowā¦
I agree with you. And the thing is that I never been taught to give relationships priority you know. Thatās something I discovered after my earlier 20s that building relationships romantic or generally itās really important. And the self-reliance fueled that wrong belief even more. And the funny part is that I have trust issues even though till now Iāve met like really kind, helpful and amazing people. Generally takes me long to trust in the person. But what Iām glad about is that I was never into transactional relationships like Iām only helping you just because you helped me. I always have this mindset of If Iām able to help someone then Iām going to help. I donāt want something in return.
But in previous romantic relationship part I was like a fixing figure so that also didnāt fulfilled me either so..
Oh talking about that you know that women are more likely to fall in love when she have sex with the same person? But for men itās not the same. Doctor told me that š
I told her If she wants we can also stop physical things but she was like naah.. But anyways I guess weāre both little tired to find something more suitable for ourselves..
Well, trust has to be built. I was talking about the person having a track record of being trustworthy, e.g. of showing up when theyāve promised, of not laughing at you when you show vulnerability, of supporting you when something bad happens (e.g. when your cat died). After a while, you realize you can trust them that they wonāt hurt you or betray you.
Hmm in that case I did meet mostly the nice women. Doctor is extra nice and sensitive though. But I did get your point. And the thing is I guess my senses are stronger in that regard if Iām around disrespectful and insensitive type of women I wouldnāt even think about going out with her or even act aloof when she tries to get along with me. But I guess I do have to try to meet more women not just for romantic relationship but to remove my shyness to ask out someone when I actually like them
Fast love can be infatuation ā itās when we have our rose-colored glasses on and idealize the person and fail to see the warning signs. But for you, I guess youāre afraid to fall in love ā you are afraid to form an attachment to the person ā because you are afraid theyād hurt you. I think that whenever we get attached to someone, we need something from them, and them disappearing from our lives would hurt us. So thatās a risk that you are not willing to take yet.
I think thatās why you donāt feel āfast loveā ā because youāre preventing yourself from falling in love, i.e. to form that attachment.
Ohh right definitely I am afraid of falling in love. It feels like Iām trying to protecting too much or like not letting it loose enough you know.. and I donāt think I need something from them. But more like fear of wasting time and not working out and just dull over the time you know. Because again I still have the fear that Iām not getting any younger
Yes, and youāre actually getting to know her, and based on what you said, she seems trustworthy. But your fear doesnāt let you start trusting her. It doesnāt let you fall in love with her either.
Hmm I guess so.. and I do trust her. But somehow Iām still not trusting in this relationship working out with her
Ā
Ā
Yes, it is š Youāre seeing it clearly. Which is a good place to start healing š
Iāve got some ideas why you have so much mistrust, and I think itās related to your mother not really supporting you, but making allegiance with your father (excusing his abusive behavior, and telling you to be the mature one and tolerate abuse). So it was a kind of betrayal.
How do you feel about all this? We can explore it some more, if you feel like itā¦
To be honest Iām not sure if thatās the root cause it may be I donāt knowā¦ and yeah we can explore
Maybe she was actually jealous of your enthusiasm and didnāt like it? It wouldnāt be your fault, of course, but maybe she is intimidated by people who seem more confident and energetic than she is?
In any case, I am very sorry. Itās their loss not hiring you, because you would have been a great assetā¦ But anyway, youāll find something else, something close to your heart, and hopefully very soon!
She did seem intimidated but I couldnāt just hide my enthusiasm because I practiced a lot and I was just more hopeful so..
Yeah thanks I hope so.. I took few days of break for applying. I didnāt just felt like it. I started applying again though so letās see.
SereneWolf
ParticipantWell just got an update for an interview. not selected for further round. š„²
I did had a good feeling about this one but oh wellSereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
Howās your week going?
Itās more rainy than Iād fancy, but itās okay, itās good for the plants and crops š
Oh cool. You have like your own little farm that you grow crops in? what plants are there?
Ā
Yes, although with health anxiety itās tricky because the pain is in the body, so sometimes itās triggering to focus on oneās body and feel all the various sensations (which is a typical exercise for grounding), because then youāll feel the pain too, and itās counterproductive. So for me, it is more like self-suggestion and telling myself that I am stronger than I think, and that the last time the pain went away, so it will happen this time too.
Ah I see, thatās right triggering the feeling of pain aināt easy. And youāre indeed much stronger than you think! No matter what your anxiety says to you.
Ā
Great! I am rooting for you to make it happen!
Thanks a lot š
Ā
You are very welcome. Yeah, self-worth is key, and thatās what gets damaged when we have a criticizing parent. Your father made you believe youāre not good enough (when you didnāt get straight As, when you didnāt get him the right tool immediately, and in many other occasions throughout your childhood), and so thatās what you started believing about yourself too. And it takes a long time and healing to undo that false beliefā¦
Yes I guess because Iām self-aware about these things at later age itās little bit harder because the roots are deeper
I am glad youāre aware of your skills, and how capable you are of learning new things, adapting, and thriving in a new setting. So yeah, donāt forget that. And indeed, that youāre an asset and have a lot to offer.
Yes Iām trying to believe that!
What I am trying to say is donāt immediately make the worst possible conclusion about yourself. Donāt question your worth, even if a company rejects you!
Well to be honest Iām not doing that consciously. Most of the time Iāve seen those emails Iād just ignore it. I be like yeah okay, there will be a good match soon. But I guess maybe itās my subconscious.
Ā
First, I am happy if you started believing that you can find someone compatible, someone you can enjoy time together even in silence. Thatās so precious! And if this girl is in that category, youāre lucky.
Well she is in that category. But Iām always questioning this like there is very slight chance that it would work out between us. Because I do like to spend time with her but she also scares me with her bold ācommitment typeā of moves sometimes š
It sounds like the fear of getting hurt, once youāve given your heart to someone. When we love, we are vulnerable. Weāve talked about vulnerability before. Without vulnerability, there is no healthy relationship. There is no authenticity. But you fear to be vulnerable because if weāre hurt by someone we love and trust, it hurts a lot. It hurts like hell.
And youāve already experienced this pain in your childhood: youāve opened your heart and trusted your parents, and theyāve hurt you. Specially your father. And it happened again and again. So for you, being vulnerable and needing someone is a big no-no. Super scary. You want to prevent to be hurt again. Would you agree with this?
Hmm not really because I believe itās not about getting hurt anymore. Because I donāt know I got this sense of strength that it is my heart and Iām able to heal my heart no matter what. Maybe my heart is rigid and Iām also sensitive occasionally but I know time and patience can heal heart. And because of this girl I donāt think Iām much scared about vulnerability either.
There are no guarantees in life. And no absolute security. When I get out in the street, who guarantees me that a brick wonāt fall on my head? That I wonāt be hit by a car? If we lived like that, we wouldnāt live at all.
But still, in a relationship, you can know if someone is trustworthy. Itās not so completely random. Because the person has a track record or supporting you and being there for you. If you marry someone, you donāt marry them at a whim, but because youāve got to know the person. Youāve been vulnerable with them, and theyāve been vulnerable with you. And when problems arise, you communicate about it, you donāt pretend that everything is fine.
All this is still not a guarantee of āliving happily ever afterā, but it gives you a certain certainty, a higher probability of things working out.
You know what they say: nothing is ever certain in life, only death is. But within that general uncertainty, you can still count on some people and trust them ā because they have proven themselves as trustworthy.
I agree with you. So what you mean is a process of trusting first and even for me in relationship trust comes first and after that, love. Maybe somewhere I still believe in fast love yet still have that feeling of security which isnāt right. My controlling behavior haha
And slow love, like getting to know the person, building trust and love based on that. It seems long process but there is actually much higher probability.
But because I was already in many unhealthy relationship dynamics even that seems questionable and time wasting to me. So in a way Iām craving a heathy love yet still exhausted to actually put in efforts for healthy love. Me, Iām the problem itās me š
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Retina is super importantā¦ I do hope she gets better. There are also vitamins she can take, to strengthen the retina, but I guess she knows all thatā¦
I guess sheās already doing that but it what happened to her is more like genetic so..
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Great! Were they physically dangerous situations (like watching the lioness give birth in the jungle), or other types of situations?
Yes. Physically and mentally dangerous both. I went to visit oil refinery with my uncle and they gave us VIP pass and my uncle was there for business matters so he was working and I was just curious checking things here and there was this giant pod they didnāt know I was in so they locked up. They couldnāt even hear if I scream. So I just sit there for an hour and after that looking around and see thing yellow printed sign for the location and pickup time was on the pod so I was like damn if I wonāt hurry Iām going to dead because they lift up the pod with machines and itās quite fast so much higher chances of me getting crushed inside the pod. But I calmed myself and there was this pointy rod thing I managed to remove it after like half house and sharp pointy rod can make much higher noise to an iron pod so, so thatās how they find out I was there š
And it happened with wild animals tooā¦ not giving birth (Because that is actually beautiful thing) but in Lion just sitting on the way when I was just riding my bicycle going back home. I wasnāt taking road but the farm area shortcuts because it was easier and faster. If you move too much around lion it would mean youāre a meal thatās it. So I literally waited like 3.5 hours just sitting there waiting him to move on his own and till then I was just sitting on my bicycle like a statue.
And lot of other normal work and school related things lol
You see how much hope (and trust) you had, even in dangerous, possibly life-threatening situations? I guess you had trust in yourself and your own abilities, and in providence, right?
At the same time, you are scared to trust another person. I am not judging you at all, just inviting you to notice it. Youāre scared to trust because youāve been hurt in your childhood. So trust in relationships is gone. Trust in nature (and your own abilities) is still there, but trust in another person is gone.
Yes exactly because in lot of situations I was alone and I saved my own self. There are some situations where people did helped me but still..
But basically for relationship youāre right Iāve been hurt and I was alone so I thought just myself is enough.
Yes you do. Youād only have to learn how to trust againā¦
Yes I know, Iām trying
Wishing you best of luck on Wednesday! (but we can talk in the meanwhile too, hope my eyes wills serve me š )
Thanks, and yes my interview went actually well. Beyond my expectations. I practiced a lot but she didn’t ask many things. but Still I donāt think I gave the best answers but more like satisfactory? Because the Technical interviewer had less energy and I was energetic, so I guess she did like that enthusiasm as well. but letās see now. There will be another interview with Data scientist soon. But Iām still worried though.
You still having eye problems?Ā Is it getting any better?
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
Hope youāre having a good weekend.
So itās like there is a real reason why I am concerned about my health, but still, I donāt need to worryĀ thatĀ much. This excessive worrying is a part of health anxiety, and luckily I am learning how to deal with it and calm myself down.
I see what you mean I understood it now. But Iām glad youāre able to deal with it now. I guess this also involves some grounding practice?
Ā
Yes, they both are super important sectors, and sustainability is close to my heart too. Itās good that youāre looking for jobs in fields that are meaningful to you!
Me too. and when I gather enough capital, I want to start some good sustainability startup for sure. Thatās one of my goals.
I understand that you really want this job. And the pressure to get it. But unfortunately it increases your anxiety, which then makes it harder during the interview. Perhaps the first thing youād need to do it put the perfectionist pressure off yourself: āIĀ Need to aceĀ all of this interviews.ā
No, you donāt need to ace them. You donāt need to be perfect, which was the requirement your father has put on you. You only need to be yourself ā which is GOOD ENOUGH.
Because honestly, without flattering you, Serenewolf, you are good enough. You are more than qualified, you have the experience, the knowledge, the managerial skills, and emotional intelligence as well. Youāve got both the tech skills and the soft skills. So really, I think youāre a well-rounded candidate with a lot to offer.
Please think of yourself in those terms. Youāll be a great asset for them, theyāll be lucky to have you. Youāve got a lot of offer. Try to think in those terms.
Again Thanks for giving me amazing and touching reminders about myself. I do tend to forget my own self worth or what Iām able to provide or achieve. I believe Long term of inner Ā critic have to do something with that or maybe something else. My soft skills have indeed improved much better as well as technical skills and top of that Iām so adaptable to learn new things. The first company I worked for I literally learned everything under a week. Even though I was a total fresher at that time.
Yeah, keep your focus on your job for now. You can return to the relationship topic later. But also, if you can relax a bit and see yourself as a great candidate for the job (like I suggested above), you donāt need to worry that much. Just change the perspective a little, and you wonāt be under such huge pressure.
Yes youāre right Iām trying to change my perspective but after getting many rejection emails itās not that easy you know
Iāve heard once that excitement and anxiety are very similar in terms of the hormones that are secreted. Iāve just looked it up now and found a Forbes article about it, titled āAnxiety vs relaxation: Relabeling anxiety as excitementā. Here is an excerpt:
The feeling of anxiety is physiologically almost the same as the feeling of excitement. Both feelings produce an elevated heart rate and a feeling of butterflies in your stomach. Both might make you sweat. Your body is readying itself for action. But the feelings are different.
If you can redefine getting this job as an opportunity and challenge, rather than a horrible loss if it doesnāt happen, you might be able to feel more excitement and less fear and anxiety. Anyway, just an idea. Let me know how it sounds to you.
Thatās a really insightful advice indeed! Thanks for sharing. I love it š
I think it has to do with your childhood experience of not feeling safe and accepted in the relationship with your parents (specially with your father). Relationship and vulnerability feels like a burden, perhaps even a threat, rather than a source of comfort and safety. From what weāve talked about so far, relationship feels like a threat to your independence, freedom, life goals, pursuing your passionsā¦ Am I right in thinking that? And as long as you see relationship as a threat, no wonder youāll be afraid of it.
Recently Iām not seeing relationship as a threat. But more like what if after that much invested time and emotions what if it doesnāt work out? So itās a fear like this. Because thereās another thing Now I know I can find someone who understand me and we have similar life values and enjoy time together even in silence. (Not easy but not that hard) and donāt get me wrong I try to be positive for love but the thing is still if I read or see something around like Breakup or cheating or hear some things like that from someone Iām immediately somewhat feeling like Iām saved. Because Iām not committed, I donāt have to deal with those things.
Just recently one of my friendās bf ended relationship with her saying that he doesnāt love her anymore and ended a 7 YEARS long relationship. So hearing things like this how can I be even little hopeful?You mean you need to repeat everything about yourself to the new therapist, until they get to know you?
Yes and you already know how much harder it is for me express myself properly
She does sound like a very kind and supportive person, who is willing to help in spite of her health issues. Thatās admirable. I understand why you donāt want to switch to someone else. Letās hope she will get better soon. By the way, does she have a diagnosis of what her eye problems are?
She have some kind of retinal condition. So itās advised to her that she should spend much less screentime as possible to prevent further damage and sometimes sheās also getting migraines as well so
Sure, yes, a good therapist is first and foremost a positive, compassionate presence in our life. Someone who listens to us without judgment. Someone we can be authentic with. Therapeutic relationship is important precisely because of that. Because a therapist ideally creates a safe, non-judgmental place for us to express ourselves, to be ourselves. Something many of us didnāt have while growing up. In doing so, the therapist also teaches us to create that safe place within ourselves: our internal good parent, or Uncle Iroh or Lord Krishna.
And you succeeded in creating that safe space within yourself, because as you say:Ā And thatās why Iām blaming myself much less than I used to.
And because of that, yes, itās easier to do self-healing too, because you have your own inner therapist now. The inner critic is still there, but Uncle Iroh is there too, and thatās so precious!
Haha well tbh it what keeps me sane time to time. Because Iāve been situations that normal person just couldnāt even bare. And even in that kind of time I was able to be calm and tell myself itās alright, Breathe. I can solve it. I can handle this.
And sometimes even like just surrendering myself for like total hope. Like no matter what itāll be alright. I survived lot of things and Iāll survive this and succeed. And lot of times it actually worked without even putting too much effort. Can you imagine?Ā
Thank you, SereneWolf. I think youāve made an amazing progress. I remember in the beginning you didnāt want to accept that our childhood has a huge impact on us as adults š but then you kind of āgot itā, and thatās when you really went deeper and expanded your self-awareness. Thatās when you decided to start therapy tooā¦ All that helped you to have much more compassion and understanding for yourself. And I hope you do feel better about yourself in your day-to-day life, without too much self-blame and self-criticism?
You still have work to do related to the fear of relationship, but youāll get there. Right now, focus on feeling good enough for the job youāre applying for. Because as I said, youāre more than good enough. Just try to get your confidence up, feeling good in your own skin, and I promise you, youāll ace that interview, without even trying to do it š
Oh haha I remember I was being stubborn about it but thanks again for always being understanding, guiding me and supporting me. I highly appreciate it. And yeah I do think Iām much self-aware than before. And I do feel much better about myself than before definitely. Iād say Self-blame is totally gone but yeah some self-criticism is still there.
Yes I know I have to work on my fear of relationship because I know I have so much love to give.
Yes. Iām already practicing for an interview. Thanks a lot for your good wishes! I feel much better. š»šSereneWolf
ParticipantHey Tee,
Actually, I am only now starting to learn to be more resilient. These health issues made me feel very fragile physically, but Iāve realized I am also fragile emotionally. For example, believing that Iād never heal, worrying, catastrophizing etc. And Iāve learned that those are all symptoms of health anxiety. So now Iāve learned how to cope with that anxiety, and also to start seeing myself as more resilient (physically) than I thought I was.
So nowadays, whenever I have a flare-up of my symptoms, I donāt start despairing and thinking my life is over, but I let it pass. And within a few days, my symptoms do subside and I feel better again. So this is how I am learning resilienceā¦ by tolerating physical pain š But itās been hard, a very hard lesson.. but anyway, thatās life, I hope I am now stronger because of it š
Oh actually I didnāt even know thereās a specifically thing like health anxiety exist. But Iām glad you found a way to cope with that anxiety. I guess we always find a way one way or another. And I do like your approach because in your situation combining with physical pain so itās easy to feel fragile and anxious! so Keep up your good work š
So you ended up not applying for that entry level job, which was paying well and looked promising?
I did apply but unfortunately didnāt get selected. Someone with even higher experience than me started working there with less salary package. But I didnāt sulk over that because it was months ago and I thought maybe that person needed that job more than me.
I am sorry itās been so stressful for you. Are the opportunities so limited or you are somewhat picky, looking for a very specific thing?
Itās the IT job market in general. There arenāt even enough jobs open, on top of that layoffs. And what Iām looking for is working in HealthTech or Sustainability sector. Because I think itās meaningful for me and also impactful.
Luckily just Thursday I passed initial interview for this Healthtech company. Itās really good position. Took me really long to get selected for a position like that. Itās also fully remote. And enough pay that I can also move to Europe without any issues.
Now I have next technical interview on Next Wednesday. but I have high hope for this as well as this crazy fear and anxiety that what if I donāt perform well and donāt get it? Itās a really good opportunity that I just donāt want to lose. And itās just not even letting me practice with good focus. Because this one has multiple stage of interviews after interview on Wednesday there will be two more interviews. And I Need to ace all of this interviews.
Ā
I see. It just occurred to me that when you are under stress and feeling bad about something (like with the job search at the moment), you donāt need anyone around to support you. Like, a romantic relationship isnāt a resource for you, but a burden, it seems? And so you tend to get rid of the relationship, to feel less burdened, right?
When I talked about this my therapist while ago she said at difficult time thatās what exactly you need, someone who really supports you and she told me try to stop always being self-dependent. But tbh Iām not able to do that for now. My focus for job is sharp. Because currently itās a necessity.
It seems she really likes you and is waiting for you. I am kind of rooting for the two of you too š Because she seems like a good girlā¦ But anyway, youāll see. Those things cannot (and shouldnāt) be forced, thatās for sure.
Youāre right and like you know we discussed before like I need to be more hopeFul romantic not hopeLess romantic. But I donāt know why but Iām still very hopeless about love. On top of that because of this kind of thinking Iām already feeling like Iād end up alone and no one would love me with their whole heart if Iām keep rejecting love like this.
Because tbh I do really like her but I just donāt see future in her even though sheās really good I just donāt know whyā¦
Oh I am sorry about that. I also had some eye issues, and it was very frightening, but I did get better, thankfully. I hope your therapist will get better too.
I hope so. Because with another therapist itās all from 0 to 1. And more than that Itās the good relationship you know. Because I want good connection too.
Are you doing those exercises? Are you in touch with her? I mean, is she available at least from time to time? Because self-healing is hard, although not impossible.
Iām not able to doing those exercises daily tbh. But yes Iām in touch with her. And just look her dedication she said we can communicate over written letters like the old times. And she wonāt even charge me any fees for that. She also believes everything happens for a reason, and this would help her do more writing which she always wanted to do in her teenage years, How would I think about changing a therapist like this?
Self-healing is indeed not easy. But at the end of the day therapists are only like a guide but all the inner work we have to do by ourselves so..
Iāve heard once a great concept, which is that emotional wounds happened in a relationship, and thatās why we also need a relationship to heal them. A therapeutic relationship primarily. Or we need to have a strong sense of self-compassion, which is like having an inner therapist rather than the inner critic. Unless we have developed a strong inner coach/therapist/good parent figure, emotional healing is hard to do on our own.
So I think it would make sense to try to find another therapist ā someone you do have a good rapport with. Unless youāre feeling youāre making progress on your own too?
Thatās indeed a great concept and I guess Iām trying to bring that inner therapist/parent figure more. For example. Uncle Iroh or Krishnaji (Lord Krishna). And thatās why Iām blaming myself much less than I used to.
Well I do feel like Iām making a progress but for different perspective I wouldnāt mind you telling what do you think my progress so far? Because obviously you continuously contributing a huge part in my healing journey. Because we started communicating long before I even started therapy.
SereneWolf
ParticipantOla Tee! š
Itās totally fine. Iām really glad to that youāre feeling better. Really happy to hear back from you. I do know that youāre very strong & resilient and I admire that. But I hope you feel even better.
For Job letās say Iām still being resilient and applying. There were days when I felt like absolute trash. Because I wasnāt seeing any results. And I was worried for financial pressure too. So like finding a job and on top of that financial pressure. Thatās the only two things that rendered in my head. Made me sick to my stomach. It was even harder to enjoy simple things (Which I normally enjoy) But Itās getting better.
About relationship. Because of this much pressure I totally made her distant from myself. She did try but I wasnāt just in right mental state. Even now Iām just not thinking about it that much. We rarely talk. I even told her that it’s better that she finds someone more suitable according to her needs. But she said no. So now we’re like a non-committed friends who kiss sometimes.
And Itās been one and a half month Iām not seeing my therapist. She got some health issues too. Mostly her eyes and throat. Which is very crucial for online sessions you know. And she did suggest me another therapist but I didnāt liked her that much so I stopped. So I talked to her and she said she believes that Iām more than capable of doing self-healing and Iām improved much faster rate than she imagined. So told me keep working on some exercises and working on healing my emotional wounds and whenever I need a like a push, sheāll help me.
What about you? How youāve been doing?
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee!
Yay! I’m really glad! I guess long vacation did helped in some ways :D, Where did you travelled if you don’t mind me asking.
Yes that’s right let your eyes rest. No need to say sorry.I’m still being resilient and applying for jobs.
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
You did say your heath wasn’t improving. So just wanted to check on you. I hope you’re okay.Get well soon š
SereneWolf
ParticipantHi Tee,
sorry for the delay, I am on holidays and spending less time at the computer.
Thatās fine! I hope youāre enjoying your holidays well š
Thank you! Although I have to say, these last few days have been rough health-wise, so it was hard to stay optimistic. But then it eventually got better again, and I can keep on keeping onā¦
I got fever too (2-3 Days) and damn thatās not easy, and for your health itās much complex and bigger so I understand, and I admire your strength to keeping on.
I guess when you start working on those attachment wounds and the fear of intimacy and vulnerability. When you heal enough so you wonāt feel threatened by being in a relationship. Because right now, you probably fear that youāll lose your freedom, independence, ability to do what you enjoy doing, right?
This? Yes I fear that!
Maybe youāre also afraid of being judged, so you feel you need to perform and meet certain expectations, and canāt just be yourself in the relationship?
But I donāt think Iām afraid of being judged anymore in the relationship because nothing is more energy draining than act as per like someoneās expectations person by person. Thatās like people pleasing but out of relationship situation I still have some people pleasing tendencies.
But you said your girlfriend isnāt really rushing to get married and have children. So it seems she isnāt the cause of stress but itās more like that youāre telling yourself that being in a relationship means needing to settle down and have children within the 2-3 year time span. So itās more like the false belief and the expectation that you are putting on yourself is what causes you pressure, rather than your girlfriend putting pressure on you, right?
Sheās not rushing because she knows Iām not serious like her into this relationship, When we met for our second date, she did mention that sheās tired and she wants to settle down. Because even she thinks finding love isnāt easy at all. She literally sends me cute baby videos on IG time to time! And she also suggested adopting a kitten together when my cat ran away, I may have been taking it the wrong way, but you know what that means right? But yeah these are just my assumptions… But saying indirect āyesā to those things means taking things next level and going into the pool!
So Iād say he never gave you the freedom to be yourself ā even if he gave you the freedom to move away from home.
Hmm so itās like for his own ego and comfort?
I donāt know if he meant to say that he might have made mistakes in your (and your siblingsā) upbringing? If he is willing to admit that he might have made mistakes, thatās already something. Because my mother isnāt willing to admit that.
Well like Iāve told you he did said sorry to my grandmother when we had a fight in the past. Not directly to me but still yeah
Haha, you said you were in your late 20s, so I put the highest possible age. But if youāre even younger than that, then my words have an even bigger weight!Ā Ā Because youāre really young and the entire life is ahead of you.
But you know how days are going? Like a blink of an eye! I feel so nostalgic watching old anime it feels like yesterday when I used to watch those things. Also I do have to mention that I guess Iām using that to sooth myself from this really fast paced AI world.
Your inner critic used the opportunity to judge you for being lazy and not working on actively defending yourself fromā¦. the inner critic himself! You see that mechanism?
But but isnāt that rational and right? š
The inner critic uses everything to turn things against you, even my advice on how to get rid of it! So just pay attention to that and notice every time you scold yourself for anything. Because every such scolding is the inner critic in action.
Hmm I guess Iāll have to try more
Ā
If you like the position and it pays well even at the entry level, and it gives you an opportunity for career advancement ā then sure, go for it! The only question is ā how come the entry level pays more than the manager level somewhere else? Have you checked if this company is legit and there are no scams involved? If they are legit, if thereās nothing fishy, then Iād say take it, by all means.
Thanks and Theyāre legal and itās not a scam, Itās paying well because they raised lot of funding recently even during this time! So, they have a lot of confidence for their product and I like that. And I even researched for their salary data and theyāre paying Product person 4x higher!
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