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JayJayParticipant
Hi Anita,
Oh how I wish that I could just walk away… from them both but more particularly, from my sister. That must have taken so much courage for you to make that decision! And even harder, I would imagine, that once you have made that decision, that you don’t go back on it. I have so much respect for you.
I had already decided that once my mother had passed on, that I would go no contact with my sister. 55 years of this (I’m 61, she is younger than me by 2.5 years) is quite enough.. life is too short. Once my mother is no longer around, that will be the end of it.
I have documented all of this. I have all the texts and notes of conversations. I am going to see a solicitor for legal advice next week.
I am now thinking, why wait until mother passes, this is never going to go away. And one of the things I am going to discuss with the solicitor is relinquishing my LPA’s on my mother. That would mean that my sister would be in full control of my mother’s financial affairs, and her health and welfare on her own. And on her own head will it all then fall, when it does. I really have had enough of this. Although she will be in full control of everything then, in a way she actually is anyway, as any suggestions or questions I may have are usually disregarded anyway, so what is the point?
I had to text her this morning, after her ‘not speaking’ to me for the last two days as I needed to know if her husband still wanted to put his car on my drive, and when, as they were planning on going on holiday for two weeks and I didn’t know when. If I hadn’t have texted her, I wouldn’t have even known they were going on holiday today, as my sister has never given me the exact dates. She texted me to ask if I wanted to come up and see my mother before they went. I think this was some kind of a ‘test’.
Well, yes, I did want to see my mother, but have been putting it off because of the atmosphere after the argument a few days ago. So I thought I would go and see her. If only to prove that I am not going to be intimidated by a bully. Or intimidated by the walking on eggshells, or the atmosphere.
When I got there (they only live a short distance away) you would think the argument had never taken place. Sis smiled and joined in the conversation and I sat with my mother while she packed for the holiday. I am used to this happening. One day I am labelled as the devil incarnate (usually because I won’t be bullied by my sister), the next day, I can be just a piece of furniture, something just there to be used, another day I might be called upon to help out in some way with my mother’s care. I am aware that my sister actually doesn’t love me very much, if at all, and I have known that for a very long time. She was and still is very jealous of me. She could never put aside her natural child jealousy for a sibling when she grew up.
You would never have known we had had words, and that we had just spent two days not even speaking. I think she has taken this as a sign that I have given in to her manipulation of the situation. I have done exactly that for years, just for the sake of peace.
I sat with my mother for an hour… she was very anxious as she didn’t want to go away on holiday (it’s early spring here and very cold). However the holiday has had to be right now because the builders are knocking through into the main house and joining the extension to the former kitchen. The noise from this building work is too much for my mother and that also makes her very tearful and anxious. Even though I used to dislike my mother, I felt so sorry for her. She is so defenceless against my sister’s machinations. Her home is not her home any more, it’s my sisters.
JayJayParticipantDear Anita,
I’m so sorry that you are walking along a similar path to me. (((hugs))) It’s one of the hardest paths to walk along, and progress through.
You are right about the parent/child relationship here. And it’s the same with my sister. I love them both, and it is an unconditional love, something I was born with. You can’t just turn it on and off like a tap (faucet?) when you feel like it, can you? At the moment, the love I feel for both my mother and my sister is tinged with a sense of overwhelming pity, particularly for my mother.
As my sister appears to be able to do exactly that, I think that she does have, towards me, ‘conditional love’. Or no love at all. My mother is too confused now to be able to be ‘conditional’ about love, but was exactly the same as my sister until her dementia got worse. Now she is just confused.
Their conditional love has always depended on whether I am there to do their bidding, put them first, and agree with everything they say. My sister has always been this way. My mother is no longer this way. My mother would be though, if she hadn’t developed dementia.
Because I have dared to question my sister over my mother’s finances and her control over them, I am not being spoken to at the moment. I have not seen my mother for over a week now. I knew this would happen. I have been deliberating over having this conversation for quite a while. Because I knew what the outcome was going to be.
Late last week, I politely enquired as to what her and her husband were contributing to the bills now they had moved in officially with my mother (sister moved in unofficially 6 months ago). Sis hates being answerable to me, but it is my duty because of the LPA laws that I am aware of the financial situation. I explained this to her. (The authorities take a very hard line with anyone abusing a vulnerable adult’s finances and welfare here in the UK). She said she was well aware of the rules and that I should go and see a solicitor if I thought differently. She also said it was ‘none of my business’ what her income was, but as her income is coming from my mothers savings, I had to point out that, actually, it is my business, which enraged her still further. She knows she is taking advantage, of that I am sure. If I fail in my duty as per LPA rules, I am as guilty as she is, by association. And somewhere down the line there is going to be a reckoning.
JayJayParticipantHi Anita,
Regarding B… I think it’s not only learning in order to gain wisdom by paying attention, but one has accept responsibility by not blaming anyone else for their own failings, and admit and accept that the blame lies with themselves sometimes. I think it might be about not lying to yourself.
If I am wrong, I accept responsibility for my mistakes. I apologise. I learn from it. I accept blame if it lies with me with humility and all due respect to the person involved for pointing out my mistake and thanking them for making me aware of it. I truly believe that people don’t grow or increase in wisdom until they can accept that they can sometimes or even often be wrong. And not make themselves a ‘victim’ and find someone to blame instead of themselves – finding a ‘scapegoat’ to excuse their mistakes and make them into someone else’s.
If my sister is wrong about something (it doesn’t matter if it’s proved) she will swear black is white and it’s always someone else’s fault. The last time she threw a tantrum, there were no apologies when it was over and things were back to normal. Her only comment was ‘I’m only human’. I remember thinking at the time she said it, ‘Yes, and so was Dr. Crippen’.
B. always blames her men for whatever is wrong with the relationship. They all start out being ‘The One’, and her expectations are high that this time it’s right. Then she finds they are, indeed, only human – with wants and needs of their own. So they deceived her (in her own mind) as they were not so perfect after all. So she leaves without a word or a warning.
Regarding my mother…yes, at one time she was pretty toxic. I was the scapegoat for most things. My sister learned at my mother’s knee about the power you could gain over people by being manipulative, intimidating and bullying. As I bore the brunt of most of their bullying, I soon learned to keep away from them as much as possible. My friends became my family and my support system. When my sister wasn’t making my friends into her flying monkeys, or persuading them that she could be a much better friend to them than I could!
All I feel for my mother now is a deep sorrow for her being the way she was. And the way she is now. I would say that the way she is now is Karma.. a cruel kind of Karma as she has now been robbed of the very thing she most coveted, and that was her control over everybody and every situation, and having all the attention focused on her.
I don’t care about the money or any eventual inheritance. But having been at the receiving end of this kind of bullying for years, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, not even my mother, especially in the vulnerable state she is now in.
How much would it bother me not to see my mother again? I would be very sad not to be able to see her and see that she was being treated well and that her last days were not spent in constant fear of abandonment. More out of a sense of duty, perhaps. I have a feeling though, that she wouldn’t miss me much at all.
JayJayParticipantHi Sarah,
I agree with B. above. You really need to stop these one way friendships, where you are always giving – of your time, your patience and your unquestioning devotion – but where no-one is giving anything back to you. These friends are taking you for granted.
I guess it’s been a long time since you put yourself first. Now you have to, because to do otherwise and let these friendships carry on will not only exhaust you, but put yours and your boyfriends plans to be together at risk.
You deserve to be treated in exactly the same way as you would like to be treated yourself. And how you treat others. Anything less than that is disrespectful of your friends. Keep repeating that.
The friend who lives with you on an occasional basis. I know you hate to say that she needs to leave, but it’s the only way given the situation. If she is your true friend, she will be happy for you and your future plans. She will recognise that you need to move on. Yes, it’s always difficult when you have been friends for so long without any outside interference. Situations change and you have to move forward and give you and your BF that chance.
I also think you should start getting a lot more distant with the friend who ‘walks all over you’. But think on this. Why do you let her do this to you. By allowing the behaviour, you are condoning it. You are allowing it to continue and this is making you unhappy.
Perhaps you need to stop ‘people pleasing’ and please yourself now. Put yourself first for a change. You will be happier for taking back some of the control these people have over you.
JayJayParticipantHello Lukey,
I agree with Mark above.
It might be possible to get this person out into the world again if both you and your girlfriend work together on the task. She sounds like she has no life, which is why she is so focused on living her life through someone else, that being your girlfriend and yourself.
I would also see if your girlfriend can get her mother to a doctor as she sounds depressed.
If you try these things and fail, then at least you will have tried.
It actually sounds like she is trying to put everyone around her (especially her daughter) on a guilt trip as well. The reason for that could be that because she is unhappy, everyone else has to be.
I’d like to know what she was like before her divorce. Was she any different to how she is now? Is this something she has slipped into and spiralled downwards in a destructive kind of way until she is now sitting alone in the dark and choosing to be there?
JayJayParticipantWhat an amazing and sad story. So you think that B is back with the man she left so to be with A-
what is her power, B’s power- do you figure- a perfectly damsel-in-distress performance, you think?
– and who is next, back to .. A???
Will you tell me about the dream you mentioned?
yes, a perfect damsel in distress story. she has repeated this with five different partners in her life now. And that’s not counting the ones who were wise or had a bit of intuition enough to not want to get involved. Even A. thought he was rescuing her from the big bad wolf, only to find out he has been painted as the latest big bad wolf himself.
Why does she keep repeating the same behaviour over and over and expect a different result every time? She leaves so much heartache and pain in her wake. Her ex was on the phone to me for hours, trying to understand why she had discarded him. I talked him out of suicide one night, and it took most of the night to persuade him not to do it. Now I’m doing the same with A., although he doesn’t seem suicidal, thank the Lord.
The dream I had came about 6 months after they went off together. I dreamed that B came crying to my door with a baby around the age of two or three years old in her arms. Begging for sanctuary. Telling me she had nowhere to go. Telling me that A. had turned out to be an awful man. I knew that the baby was a symbol of time, as B. is past child bearing age. So I knew from that moment on that in maybe two or three years time, she would be doing the same thing over again. Two and a half years later, and here we are! I believe that dream was sent by a higher power. It wasn’t an ordinary dream. I knew it had a message for me.
JayJayParticipantRe… the other stuff.
I’m seeking the advice of a solicitor as soon as I can. There has been another row with my sister. This time I cannot ignore it as I would be failing in my duty as a Lasting Power of Attorney if I didn’t ask the questions. This time it was about money – again. Now that both herself and her husband have moved in with my mother, I asked if they were splitting the bills three ways now there were three of them living there. She instantly tried to justify why they are not paying much in the way of bills. It seems to me that they are taking advantage of my mother, who is a vulnerable adult. I can’t allow this to continue, so I’m seeking legal advice.
I’m thinking of rescinding my rights as power of attorney as I can’t see what use they are when she has full and complete control of my mothers finances and her health and welfare. This will mean I will have to walk away and go no contact. As my mother lives there, I will also not be able to ever see my mother again. It’s the cowards way out, I know I should fight for my mother’s rights. That’s not happening, and I cannot stand by and watch this happen. And having equal LPA rights also means that by not reporting my sister’s behaviour, I am condoning it and will eventually have to account for how I didn’t report it.
And it’s not just the financial side of things that isn’t right. my mother’s welfare is also a cause for concern for me. But she agrees with everything my sister says, and sister says she agrees so that’s that. As my mother can’t remember agreeing to anything or what the conversation was about even as little as five minutes ago, I very much doubt that she is consenting except that she has no other choice. Or thinks she doesn’t. Or is frightened of my sister’s rages if she doesn’t agree with her.
So I am being forced into taking some kind of action.
You asked if they deserved each other, my mum and my sister. A few years back I would have said yes. But all I see now is a little old lady of 89 years old been taken advantage of. Someone who cries a lot and is anxious most of the time. My mother is no longer capable of being nasty to me, she has forgotten how. How sad is that – the times we have got on have all been since she developed vasc. dementia and she is no longer capable of being nasty to me alongside my sister.
My grandmother brought both myself and my sister up most of the time. My mother always worked full time, although she didn’t have to. She didn’t want either of us, something she repeated over and over. She kept my sister close by her side though, when she wasn’t working. I distanced myself to get away from them both as I grew up. I feel that the only real love I ever got was from my grandmother. She was incredibly generous and alsways helping folk worse off than herself, although she didn’t have much in the way of material goods, she was always happy with her lot. She treated us both the same, but my sister resented the fact that she wasn’t the ‘queen bee’ at my grandmothers house.
JayJayParticipantHi Anita…
Interesting development, your former friend leaving the man. You did predict it. Are you in contact with him now… or with her, if you’d like to share. I don’t have to know…
I’d be glad to share it with you. The first I knew about my former friend discarding the man I was tentatively courting was when the man (I’ll call him A.) sent me a text message, after 2.5 years of silence, to say that he had been abandoned. Yes I thought this would happen. In fact I had a dream about how it would turn out, if you would be interested to know about that.
My former friend (B) had done this in two previous relationships and left without a word of explanation. None at all.
However, she had bumped into her previous ex bf and left A. four days later. Her previous ex phoned and asked me if I had heard from B, as she had told him that A. was mistreating her, that he was cruel, all kinds of lies. I told her ex. these were the same lies she had told A. about him. He asked if I was still in touch, whether I would get in touch, he was worried about her. I told him it was all lies. I told him I had no intention of ever getting in touch with her again. I had known A. for over 12 months when she decided she was going to have him, although I had only been courting him in a tentative sort of a way, and had not committed to a relationship as I wasn’t sure he was ready for one. He had always been a really kind and generous man.
A. wouldn’t have even known she was actually leaving him for good the day she walked out of the door. Except he had stopped her on the way out and asked where she was going. As she wouldn’t take the car or let him drive her, but insisted on taking a taxi, he knew that she wasn’t going to come back, and when he asked her exactly that, she admitted that she wasn’t going to come back. He had kept her from the day she had moved into his house 2.5 years ago until a few weeks ago when she just ….walked. Telling the same old tales of cruelty and hardship.
I told A. what her ex had said about him on the phone and he was shocked. But, I said, you believed it of her ex. Even though I told you that her ex wasn’t the person she had made him out to be.
All I can assume is that B. has gone back to her ex, as he is willing to have her back at any price, and that includes keeping her housed, clothed and fed, and obeying her every command without question.
I told A. this over several emails, as he couldn’t believe that she would do such a thing to him. I feel very sorry for A. He is so hurt and betrayed by her discard. He looked after his second wife for five years as she slowly died from Motor Neurone Disease. B. knew all about that, because I had told her when I was courting him. It didn’t make any difference when she decided to discard him. She used him for what she could get and left without a backward glance.
I don’t know how people can do that to someone else.
We have been exchanging emails as I wanted to help him through it a bit, even though he also discarded me when he took up with B. She had insisted on no contact with me, probably because I would have told him the truth and she couldn’t risk that. Although I owed A nothing, I just tried to help him understand that there are people like that in the world….
- This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by JayJay.
JayJayParticipantI can’t wait to see it! I hope you upload the finished artwork to this thread, Luc! 🙂
JayJayParticipantAnita, I just realised I didn’t answer your question…
You are thinking that your sister has been planning to take over your parents’ house and money, taking it all for herself, not sharing any with you, meaning, there will be no inheritance for you?
I know this will happen, if my sister is allowed to get away with it. She was trying to get me to sign a legal statement to the effect that the house would be hers when my mother died. I got legal advice, and that was (also told to my sister at the same time) that you couldn’t decide on any future inheritance until it was actually yours. And that any agreement, legal or otherwise would not stand up in any court of law. My parents made a will stating that everything, including possessions and the house, should be sold and the contents divided equally between us, and that will still stands. Both parents had seen their own siblings arguing over who got what in their own families, and swore that this wouldn’t happen in our family.
Sister didn’t like what the solicitor said one little bit.
After a few days of sulking, I think she decided that if she couldn’t have the house, then she would spend all of my mother’s money instead. Which is actually illegal. Although I suspect that she will try to railroad me, when we do actually come into our inheritance, to give up any rights to the house as well. She has a grandiose sense of her own entitlement.
I would rather tell her where to shove the lot of it! I have money of my own, I live quietly and don’t want for much. I’m not well off, but I manage. My sister is the exact opposite, she wants everything, and money has always meant everything to her. That’s why I suspect her motives in looking after my mother. The building work which Mum is paying for is actually making my mother quite ill, as the new kitchen is being built onto the side of the house, and the building work is noisy. My mother didn’t want a new kitchen or an extension. She was threatened by my sister that the alternative was that she would have to go into a home, something my mother has a horror of.
She thought of trying to get my mother to change the will, by adding a codicil… of course, as my mother is not ‘in sound mind’ now, so no solicitor (lawyer) would actually sanction this course of action.
However, as it is both my fathers’ and mothers’ wishes that any inheritance should be shared equally, I’m on the right side of the law in this matter.
I think once my sister has the house the way she wants it, and has spent all of our mother’s savings, then she will put my mother into a home anyway, as she will no longer be of any use to my sister. I hope that’s not going to be the case, but sadly, knowing my sister like I do, I do think this will happen. I am of the opinion that my mother would be far better off in a home, as she needs specialist care from a team of people, and would also have company of others her own age. At the moment, my mother could afford the best suite in the best care home, but this won’t be the case when my sister discards her, if that’s what is going to happen.
JayJayParticipantHi CuriousKnowledgeSeeker,
I think also think you are doing the right thing by not inviting your SIL over to your house, and thank goodness your husband agrees that this is the best way to go!
Like Anita says, it’s bad for you and the baby and the whole atmosphere of the house if she comes over and disrupts everyone.
It’s also very bad for you, at this late stage of your pregnancy, to be dwelling on things like this.
This has happened to me over the past few years as well. I have spent many sleepless nights trying to get things straight in my mind concerning family issues. You do tend to over-dwell on the issues, and try to come up with answers to problems. Remember no-one can fix everything for everyone else. You can’t fix your SIL, so you have done, quite rightly, the next best thing, which is to fix the situation so that the same thing doesn’t happen again.
It’s not you causing these issues. It’s your SIL. Relax, you have come up with an arrangement that you think will work out best for everyone now. Whether this happens or not is in the future, and no-one can control the future, or know how things are going to turn out, as the future hasn’t happened yet.
JayJayParticipantHi again.
First to B: Thank you for your suggestions, B. I went down this route a few years ago when I was the main carer. My sister neither wants nor admits to needing any help. I have been trying for months to get her to phone the social services for an assessment for my mum as it’s long overdue. The SS. would put into place any extra help that would be beneficial to my mother, and identify her as a ‘vulnerable adult’ but my sister simply won’t call. I’m pretty sure she it’s because doesn’t want any interference. Something to hide.
Anita – yes – me and my sister went on holiday together a couple of years ago. Everything is ok as long as you are always doing what she wants to do. We have always had a very shaky relationship as sisters, and that’s why the loss of my best friend hit me so hard, as I loved her like a sister.
My ‘best friend’ did indeed go and live with the man I was dating. I haven’t spoken to either best friend or the man in question for over 2 and a half years. Suddenly out of the blue, the man texted to say she had left him and he was devastated. I felt so sorry for him. I knew it would happen, as best friend had done the same with her former partner.
So I have a sister and a former best friend who are both, at best – selfish and put their own needs above everyone else’s, at worst, two narcissists. It wasn’t until another of my oldest friends pointed out that they had always thought that my former best friend was a lot like my sister, that the penny finally dropped!
My sister has never been my best friend. She has always been extremely jealous of me, and done her best to outshine me on every little accomplishment. She is the worst kind of bully. A master manipulator. And nothing is ever her fault.
My mother used to be the same, and years ago, both mother and sister would turn on me. I learned to simply keep out of the way if I could. My grandmother gave me a lot of love.
JayJayParticipantHi again Luc,
I’m glad you found my post helpful. 🙂
I hope you have started your ‘just for fun’ artwork. Don’t let yourself think about if it will turn out ok. Tell yourself it doesn’t matter if it turns out ok or not, that the whole point of the exercise is to simply create something that you find pleasing.
A blank canvas or piece of paper is scary for some, and for others, an invitation to create something new. Don’t let yourself think that the time you put into creating something on there might be a waste of time, effort and money for the materials… just get stuck in and create it!
All artists have a fear of failure. I attend an art club, and occasionally we have a professional artist in to do a demonstration for us. At question time, I always used to ask if these professional artists had bad days, or had their art work go wrong. Without exception, all said the same thing – yes they do have days when their art work goes into the trash, they do have days where nothing goes right. When asked what they did about this, they all answered similarly… out it goes, start again. Shrug it off.
I gained a big insight from this. No-one is perfect at art, even professionals get it wrong sometimes! Isn’t that enlightening! 🙂
JayJayParticipantHi B,
Keep it up now. You know you are doing the right thing by going no contact. I know it’s hard, very hard, I’ve been through something similar myself. Once you realise you have your own life back, and you get to choose how you live your life now, that you are the one in control now, things will get a lot easier.
It’s easy to say, but so very hard to do. You have to respect yourself, and you know in your own heart that this is the right way of doing that.
Best wishes for a brighter future, and this time a future you decide for yourself, not one that has been imposed on you by someone else. x
PS. That incident you mentioned above. Well, go girl! You certainly showed him what you thought of him. Don’t think that somehow you are to blame. He made the choice to try and use you to his advantage, while you were in a dark place. You were manipulated.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by JayJay. Reason: added a ps
JayJayParticipantHello again, Anita, it’s good to speak to you once more! 🙂
It’s a very long and complicated story, Anita. Is it two years ago? Goodness, how time flies.
My father died in October last year at 89 years old. I miss him.
After looking after both of my parents as the primary carer for so long, and going over to make sure they were ok, my dad started getting really poorly. My sister moved in temporarily to look after them as it was getting dangerous to leave them on their own even just for the night. I was worn out with trying to look after them myself… I have health and mobility issues.. it seemed a good temporary solution at the time.
Shortly afterwards, my sister announced that she was giving up her job and moving in permanently with my parents and told them she would need money from them to look after them, as she no longer had an income, which is fair enough. We had previously both applied for LPAs (Lasting Power of Attorney) for Health & Welfare and Financial control for both parents in both our names. So my sister began taking money from their savings to look after them.
She then announced that in return for looking after them, she would eventually be entitled to own their house, and would continue to live there after they had both passed away.
Then my father died. My mother’s dementia got worse for a while, but she seems to be improving a little now. They were married for 62 years, so it was a big shock for her, and she’s not so far gone with the dementia that she doesn’t understand things.
Since my sister gained access to my mother’s savings, Mum’s savings are being depleted quite rapidly. She has just engaged builders to enlarge the kitchen, and other home improvements, and is using my mother’s savings to do these things.
I am more than worried that my sister’s motives are questionable, but I don’t know what to do about it. If I say anything at all, I just get a tantrum and end up giving in to her – and you have never seen tantrums like my sister has! If she isn’t happy, then no-one else is allowed to be either, and that includes her husband (now also moved into the family home) and me.
There’s a lot more to this story, this is just a brief outline.
Thank you for listening. x
Jay
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