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anitaParticipantContinued:
I never paid much attention to the word narcissistic (and to the diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, NPD) because it’s so commonly used online and elsewhere as name calling. It is only recently, that I am taking the term/ diagnosis seriously when it comes to my mother. I accepted long ago, that she is/ has been a mix of these personality disorders: Borderline, Histrionic, Paranoid, and Obsessive Compulsive, showing strong evidence for each part of this 4-part combo.
Understanding myself requires that I understand her because of the very, very long-term fusion- in my mind- between who I am, and who she is. Recently, I see that I cannot understand her without adding a 5th part of the 4-part combo above, a 5th part that is the basis for the other 4: her NPD, the covert type.
It explains her “highly developed compensatory false self” (quotes are from online sources about NPD) which created great confusion and self-doubt on my part: for how can such a nice, friendly, empathetic, good person- with others-Â be the bad mother that I personally, and privately experienced?
It explains why she didn’t see me as a person (entitled to my own thoughts and feelings, such that are not always identical to hers), how she was not about relating to me, but about dominating me, and using me to feel better; how she placed herself in the center of attention with me and in every social occasion, if it was possible for her to do so. It explains how I was not allowed to be a center of attention (except as a thing to be cleaned, dressed, fed, and brought back to health when I was sick with fever).
To her, I did not exist as a person, I was a thing that she expected to .. be her/ an extension of her who thinks her thoughts, feels her feelings at all times. It explains her RAGE, her narcissistic rage: “unreasonable, disproportional and cuttingly aggressive… intentionally trying to inflict pain.., on others“. It explains how in her mind, the problem was always someone else, always my fault. It explains why she never took in any of what I tried to educate her with (as a teenager, reading about psychology in books, trying to help her).
It explains to me that really, there was nothing I could have been differently or done differently to have anything but a troubled relationship with her. A healthy relationship was simply not possible: not because of who I was, but because of who she was/ is.
There are things I understand most recently that I never understood before: before, I thought that she was the only good person in the world, and everyone else was bad and taking advantage of her (that was her histrionic theme). Most recently, a thought occurred to me for the first time: if she was the only good person in the world, the only person in the world who is being taken advantage of (because she is good), who do all the many millions of bad people in the world taking advantage of? They can’t all be taking advantage of my mother..?
In other words, if (according to her theme), she is and has been the only victim in the world, and everyone else (including myself) are her victimizers/ the perpetrators.. who are all the many millions of perpetrators victimizing? Surely, my mother is not available to be victimized in every town, city, country, continent, every moment of every day and night?
Surely, my mother is not omnipresent, except in her own narcissistic mind where she is everywhere and there’s no one there but her.
* I am still not angry at her, still no-longer angry after a lifetime of angry..
anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
I had some thoughts this morning about the relationship of Anger and Ruminating/ Intrusive Thinking; the role of anger that’s repressed (subconsciously pushed down, without awareness) and suppressed (consciously pushed down, with awareness). I thought of Anger being to Intrusive Thoughts like Fuel to a fire.
And so, I re-read much of what you shared since Feb 18 (almost 4 months ago). Following are quotes from what you shared since April 10, followed by my comments and a practical suggestion. Please read, if you will, this long post when you have the time and do so patiently. (All your words included in the quotes are important. What I boldface are some of the words that show me that your anger exists in the present time):
“I have never heard an appreciation or compliment from my father about my nature, about who I am, apart from studies. Instead from early childhood, I would get to listen to very harsh criticism and âsermonsâ (if the word conveys what I try to say) on even the most trivial issues. He would use to presume that in any given situation, I would be automatically at fault. It was like he had a problem with everything I did… My father would project his anger towards… my grandfather (to) me… At times it felt that he was not eve considering me as an individual person, and just as a copy of my grandfather… he did have a problem with me not being âlikeâ him, in my thoughts, actions, behavior and other things. One reason he acts differently towards my younger brother is because he probably sees himself in his personality, he finds a similarity…. Since childhood I would use to ruminate over incidents of his unkind treatment, and that happens even now when I think about a past situation, or hypothesize about a future confrontation. It leads me to rage fits at times, although I am usually a calm person. If I remember correctly, back when I was a kid/teenager, there used to be times when I would be filled with rage, despair and frustration and I would cry myself to sleep…
“At times these memories and thoughts lead me to rage fits, where my anger just seems to be like boiling. Even today before writing this post I had one such instance of rumination which led to me getting enraged over him again. I was at home for a few weeks in March-April and I had a few situations with him, so my thoughts have become more frequent since then…
“I am trying to process the childhood trauma, meditation and journaling are helping me in at least keeping my mental peace and not letting my past memories and rage subsume me completely. I am sometimes surprised seeing that a memory which would cause rage to me five years ago has the same sting even today… Sometimes I just end up having violent rage-filled thoughts that ruin my mood and subsequently my day. No matter how many times I have gone over a past memory, it stirs the same emotions every single time…
“I feel emotionally exhausted by having either intrusive or enraged thoughts… I had to bear up with a lot of âsermonsâ from him, criticisms and disapprovals from other members of my family; I began focusing too much on âachievingâ things, in pursuit of âshowing everyoneâ what I could do through my decisions and career. Now I see, this showed up in my workaholism and my desire for external achievements and approvals… I think that is one area where my fatherâs past behavior definitely impacted me because it had already damaged my self-esteem as a child. It felt comforting to type down all these things…
“Being enraged for a considerable time of the day is indeed exhausting, I was in a loop of enraging memories a few minutes ago as well. It becomes very difficult to not let the emotions take over, it is even interfering with my studies at time. On your reply dated 20th May- the officer certainly did that because they wanted to, it was completely intentional. I could see other applicants getting their files approved with ease, and even after submitting the required clarification multiple times, they just didnât let my application proceed. The more I tried, the more personal it became for them. I donât know why they did all that, but it was unjust, it felt cruelly unfair. I agree that there was some unresolved anger because I took that anger on myself. I was frustrated, frustrated to the melting point, and I took that frustration on myself. It felt that I was taking some revenge by hurting myself. I can remember this because during that time, I simply refused self-care or any help, I began developing an apathy towards myself, believing inside that why should I put my efforts when all things have to happen this way. A part of my intrusive thoughts are about self-harming behavior (not physical harm) like discontinuing therapy, cutting off all friendships and relations, refusing proper diet and taking care of my physical health and even giving up my career aspirations and a desire for numbness… It was a point when I began feeling anger towards life itself, because all I could feel was despair, defeat and hopelessness, I felt so much for pity for myself for having to face all this. I would like to know more about solving this unresolved anger... It’s been pointed out to me by some of my closest people that I do have a habit of self-loathing“.
My comments (all quotes in this section are taken from the above): your father’s criticism of you was severe, in objective terms. I can tell how severe he was in his criticisms by how severely his criticisms affected you for all the years of your life so far. What fueled his severe, very harsh criticisms has been his rage (intense anger) at his father, rage that he projected into you. You did nothing to deserve his rage. You were the victim. He victimized you.
As a child, you naturally felt hurt and angry about how terribly wrong his behavior was. You naturally ruminated about the severe criticisms and rumination prolonged your anger, back then, as a child, and since then: “Since childhood I would use to ruminate over incidents of his unkind treatment, and that happens even now.. It leads me to rage fits at times, although I am usually a calm person“- I suppose you are usually a cam person not because of absent anger, but because of repressed anger.
“At times these memories and thoughts lead me to rage fits, where my anger just seems to be like boiling“- at times, your repressed anger (hidden below your awareness), and suppressed anger (which you intentionally push down, when you do) rises up to the surface, flooding your awareness with overwhelming rage and other very difficult emotions.
At times, your anger is directed at your father but I don’t think you expressed it to him, overtly. So much valid/ understandable anger not expressed, what happens to it? It’s gets misdirected against the self: “I do have a habit of self-loathing“.
Anger is an energy in motion, it moves, and it has to have the body move with it (moving the body to say something or do something). When the anger is pushed down (not saying anything, not doing anything: no external expression), it keeps moving below the surface, creating internal distress: depression, despair and other very difficult emotional experiences.
A practical suggestion: express the rage safely, in small, controlled portions (so that you don’t get overwhelmed). Perhaps here, in your thread, by typing away angry letters to your father (such that at this point at least, you will not be sending him). Perhaps hitting a pillow at home. Express the anger: let it move from inside of you to the outside, move through your fingers typing a letter to him, and/ or through your hands hitting a pillow.
Through safe, adequate expression (perhaps in talk therapy as well), you will be free from repressed and suppressed anger, and your internal distress, including ruminating and intrusive thinking, will lessen and lessen until gone.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
What if you bring your laptop or phone to the session and tell/ message her that she can message you her questions and you’ll message her your answers..? That way you will not need to speak at all.
* I wonder if it’d be less difficult for you to vocally answer her questions if you don’t keep eye-contact with her, if you look away and focus on an object in the room. Also, dim lights may help. (You can let her know that this is your preference, if it is)
anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
Oh, you shared nothing at all with her. If the problem is that it’s difficult for you to share in-person/ face to face, you can type and print half a page with all that troubles you, and hand it to her to read at the beginning of the session (or if you have her email address, you can send her an email instead). You can even copy parts of what you shared in this thread, print/or email it to her.
Or you can print half a page or so, and read from it to her, at the beginning of the session.
Otherwise, you can start with: I suffer from Intrusive and Anxious Thoughts (the title of your thread) that are distressing, depressing and exhausting, and my sleep is troubled (it’s 12:54 am where you are at right now!)
anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
You are welcome. I am looking forward to reading how the daily routine works for you following about a week of it.
“can you suggest me on how should I open with my therapist because I do not think I will be able to share anything in the coming session too“- can you tell me what did you share with her so far (and/ or what you didn’t share with her at all)?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
You are welcome. I am sorry to read that you suffer from a nerve compression that causes you severe pain..
“Please tell me what should I do“-Â to the exercise regime you are already doing, add some aerobic exercise (walking and/ or swimming) that is safe for you to do, about the same time every day.
Listen to one of Mark Williams audios every day, perhaps in the morning and at night.
At times when you feel acute distress, get up, move around, get outside if possible (don’t stay seated).
How is that for a start?
anita
June 13, 2024 at 8:05 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #433811anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I have more time this morning, sitting in front of the computer, to reply to your yesterdayâs posts more attentively. You asked me yesterday: âHim calling me selfish, cold and that I made him feel used. Those are things my father also told me. I donât want to be those things, do you think those could be false selves?â
From Wikipedia/ true self and false self:
âThe true self (also known as real self, authentic self, original self and vulnerable self) and the false self (also known as fake self, idealized self, superficial self and pseudo self) are a psychological dualism conceptualized by English psychoanalyst Donald Winnicott. Winnicott used âtrue selfâ to denote a sense of self based on spontaneous authentic experience and a feeling of being alive, having a real self with little to no contradiction.
“âFalse selfâ, by contrast, denotes a sense of self created as a defensive façade, which in extreme cases can leave an individual lacking spontaneity and feeling dead and empty behind an inconsistent and incompetent appearance of being real, such as in narcissismâŚ
âwhen what Winnicott was careful to describe as good enough parentingâi.e., not necessarily perfectâwas not in place, the infantâs spontaneity was in danger of being encroached on by the need for compliance with the parentsâ wishes/expectations. The result could be the creation of what Winnicott called the âfalse selfâ, where âother peopleâs expectations can become of overriding importance, overlaying or contradicting the original sense of self, the one connected to the very roots of oneâs beingâ. The danger he saw was that âthrough this false self, the infant builds up a false set of relationships, and by means of introjections even attains a show of being realâ, while, in fact, merely concealing a barren emptiness behind an independent-seeming façadeâ.
Back to your words from yesterday: “I have been called ‘cold’ by the people that I do in fact intend to distance myself from. Like F, my friend P and N… Him calling me selfish, cold and that I made him feel used. Those are things my father also told me. I donât want to be those things, do you think those could be false selves? Because if they are, then he saw them.. What do you think about the concept of the people we meet in life are mirrors into ourselves? I donât like my reflection looking at him, does that make it wrong?”-
– First, “What do you think about the concept of the people we meet in life are mirrors into ourselves?”-Â the people we meet generally show us who they are, more than who we are. Generally, the mirrors we look at in others show us a murky mix of who they are and who we are.
Second: “I have been called ‘cold’ by the people that I do in fact intend to distance myself from. Like F, my friend P and N… Him calling me selfish, cold and that I made him feel used. Those are things my father also told me. I donât want to be those things, do you think those could be false selves?“- I don’t want to answer this because I don’t want to either join the people who call you cold, selfish and/ or a user, and I don’t want to tell you that you are not these things because you may be, at times.
Therefore, I will tell you about me in regard to my true and false selves: my true self was loving and trusting and felt ALIVE, but then, it was terribly abused by my mother, twisted into knots and generally emptied of the feeling of being ALIVE. What followed was a feeling of emptiness, an inner death of sorts, depression, shame and guilt.
My mother was paranoid and very much emotionally detached from me and often, angry at me. One of my false selves was the angry, judgmental self that was invested in a misguided loyalty to my abuser: I was angry at the people who hurt her, and since she claimed that everyone (sooner or later) was hurting her, I hated everyone, including myself. The purpose of this false self was to be on my mother’s side so that she will be.. on my side, so that she and I will be together.
These days, I am in the process of dissolving this false self and resurrecting the generally trusting, loving self, loving and trusting myself and others.
anita
June 13, 2024 at 7:21 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #433810anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I have more time this morning, sitting in front of the computer, to reply to your yesterday’s posts more attentively. You asked me yesterday: “Him calling me selfish, cold and that I made him feel used. Those are things my father also told me. I donât want to be those things, do you think those could be false selves?”
From Wikipedia/ true self and false self:
“The true self (also known as real self, authentic self, original self and vulnerable self) and the false self (also known as fake self, idealized self, superficial self and pseudo self) are a psychological dualism conceptualized by English psychoanalyst Donald Winnicott. Winnicott used ‘true self’ to denote a sense of self based on spontaneous authentic experience and a feeling of being alive, having a real self with little to no contradiction.<sup id=”cite_ref-2″ class=”reference”></sup> ‘False self’, by contrast, denotes a sense of self created as a defensive façade,<sup id=”cite_ref-:0_1-1″ class=”reference”></sup> which in extreme cases can leave an individual lacking spontaneity and feeling dead and empty behind an inconsistent and incompetent appearance of being real, such as in narcissism…<sup id=”cite_ref-:0_1-2″ class=”reference”></sup>
“when what Winnicott was careful to describe as good enough parentingâi.e., not necessarily perfect<sup id=”cite_ref-4″ class=”reference”></sup>âwas not in place, the infant’s spontaneity was in danger of being encroached on by the need for compliance with the parents’ wishes/expectations.<sup id=”cite_ref-5″ class=”reference”></sup> The result could be the creation of what Winnicott called the ‘false self’, where ‘other people’s expectations can become of overriding importance, overlaying or contradicting the original sense of self, the one connected to the very roots of one’s being’.<sup id=”cite_ref-6″ class=”reference”></sup> The danger he saw was that ‘through this false self, the infant builds up a false set of relationships, and by means of introjections even attains a show of being real’,<sup id=”cite_ref-7″ class=”reference”></sup> while, in fact, merely concealing a barren emptiness behind an independent-seeming façade”.
* I will submit this post next because I expect lots of extra print because I pasted and copied from Wikipedia. In the next post, I will remove the extra print.
anitaParticipantContinued:
There is a war in the middle east, Iran (by proxy of Hizballah and Hammas and the Houthis)Â vs Israel. I was born in Israel, lived there for 24 years. I speak Hebrew.
All along, my Mother was My Enemy: not the terrorists, not the Arab nations nearby (Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon). My personal enemy was my mother: isn’t it amazing, that in this context of national enemies & terrorists-within, my own, personal, private enemy, was this one person, just one: my mother..?
I think that the BEGINNING of every war is a mother (or father) turning against her/ his child.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
Again, I am replying sooner than I planned.
“I have been feeling depressed the whole day. Tried to uplift myself by watching something or studying, but there is a heaviness inside me. It did get slightly better in the evening…Â I hope things get better (even if slightly) without (psychiatric medicine), thatâs my only bet. Thanks Kshitij“-
– you are welcome!
Question: are you able and willing to commit to a daily routine of (1) aerobic exercise (jogging or fast walking), (2) yoga and/ or Tai Chi and (3) a few guided mindfulness meditations?
anita
June 12, 2024 at 6:55 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #433788anitaParticipantThank you, Seaturtle: I am still thrilled (not on the phone now, so no emojis in this post)!
anita
June 12, 2024 at 5:09 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #433785anitaParticipantStill typed on my phone: thank you đ âşď¸ đ đ (these emojis are the only ones that showed up for me) thank you, Helcat!
Anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
I read your update, and will reply further tomorrow. For now, I accept your assertion that you will not go the psychiatric medicine route. I hope you sleep better tonight!
Anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, Kshitij?
Anita
June 12, 2024 at 2:54 pm in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #433777anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle: The above is my first EVER tiny buddha emoji
Thrilled true self anita
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine. 