Dear Alina:

“He was born in rich country, his family had connections, even the job he is working now he got there thanks to his fathers call! He never went outside of his home country to work or to study. He only went outside just to travel. He is same age as me but he didn’t even finish his university yet! Last 1.5 year he was just working and sitting at home and eating!“- I think that when you met him he had low self-esteem, he was depressed, overeating, overweight and feeling ashamed of himself.

“We were both in different gulf Arabic countries and these countries were very near to each other. His country is very strict and he couldn’t date freely in his country, so for him it was easy to fly to me whenever he wanted and going on dates, restaurants, hotels freely in my working country cuz… no one knew him“- no one knew him in your working country, so there.. he felt that he could re-invent himself and be someone he’d be proud to be!

“He suddenly became SOO ‘ambitious’ when I came in his life. He lost 20 kgs in very short time, he started to go to gym and nearly everyday going out with his friends…. going out of depression… He was acting like he is very rich, very responsible, very mature, serious guy. In the first month of relationship he was telling me ‘I want to take care of you, I want to spoil you, I promise I will make ur life a paradise’“-  he reinvented himself to be the hero in a romantic movie that he scripted and directed: the rich, leaner, in-shape, capable and confident romantic character, a prince.. like in movies he saw.

“When I was working, he idealized me so so much“- he was the hero, the prince in his movie, and you were the heroine, the princess.

And then, you left your working country (the setting of the movie) and the movie ended.

When you were back in your birth country, he blamed you for what he blamed himself, projecting his self-blame/ shame into you: “He blamed me for not doing anything, for just sleeping and eating“.

“He told me the same when he was breaking up with me, he told ‘its not you, its me. I don’t deserve you because I cant provide this relationship what it needs’ But i didn’t believe him I thought it’s only BS reason to leave me.. but after your comment I really understood it thank you so much“- you are welcome. At the point of the breakup, he was far removed from the character he played in that movie, so he told you how he felt.

“You are right, he cannot even depend on himself and all these showing off was a lie“- not more a lie than a movie being a lie. I think that the movie he played in was about his wishful thinking, his make-believe. He thought that he could make a short cut in life and magically be who he wished to be.. in a country where no one knew him, with a woman who wanted him by her side.

I don’t think that he cold-heartedly manipulated and lied to you. I think that he was able to play a role and believe in his role. But it couldn’t last, even if you stayed in your working country. The role couldn’t have become him no matter where you lived and worked, and no matter how hard you tried to make him feel valuable and loved.

I think that his shame took a strong hold in him when he was a child/ teenager. It is very difficult to heal from toxic shame, it takes a lot of work, real-life work, as in psychotherapy.

“He wants to be someone but yet he couldn’t have any status in life, so maybe really he couldn’t handle me and my love“-he didn’t feel that he deserved your love because he was back to feeling intensely ashamed of himself.

“I never even thought ever about his weight, muscles or his job or how much money he has. His love was so conditional to me.. I just still cant believe how a person can change suddenly after building emotional connection with me.. so sad really“- I don’t think that the change was from him loving you to not loving you. I think that the change was from him acting in a fancy, wishful-thinking, make-believe movie=>  back to his real-life where shame does not allow him to love … anyone. And yes, it is really sad.

What do you think/ feel about my input in this post?

anita

Dear Nichole:

Almost a year and 5 months to the day you posted last in this thread, a thread you started on Sept 11, 2019 (interesting date, isn’t it), and a bit over 5 years and 5 months since you posted on tiny buddha for the first time (Aug 21, 2018). Welcome back!

“I am working at the same job, I live in the same apartment… I am financially stable. Not overly well off, but pay my bills on time and can afford some self care luxuries“- excellent! Sameness (same job, same apartment) and Stability, financial and otherwise, are very, very important to your mental health, given your childhood and onward history of heightened anxiety and fluctuating, intense moods.

I am so glad that you are still living in Florida. I went over our communication over the years and found this post which you submitted right after moving to Florida (January 9, 2020): “Happy New Year Anita! Yes, I start my 2nd chapter here in Florida with yet again a car full of things!… Trying my best and advocating for myself“- this was 4 years ago, and you are still advocating for yourself, excellent job, Nichole!

“I am not dating nor in a relationship“- this is a factor that promotes stability and sameness in your life. The romantic relationship you had years ago in Florida was a source of a lot of turmoil and instability. Actually, relationships in general, were in the past, a source of turmoil and instability.

“I have spoken to some family and even had my father visit me in June. I am back on a texting basis with one brother and my niece”– having re-read parts of our communication through the years, I’d say: watch for the danger of nostalgia because repeatedly, as a pattern, when you felt badly, you looked back at memories of moments of positive experience with your family, forgetting the massive misery that you experienced with them right before, and right after those moments, much of the time!

“I have grown a lot and better deal with life. By no means do I have it figured out though lol“- your growth and much improved mental (and practical) function in life is evident in your writing!

“I was seeing a man that I worked with for a while. It was not the best experience. I seem to attract similar traits in men“- like I said, relationships have been a source of turmoil.

“I recently recognized in my current position at work that the load is too much for me. I have been supervising my department for the last year. So I have  demoted myself (Voluntarily)  to focus more on me and my life again. Not sure if that makes sense“- it makes sense to me, this is part of your much improved functioning in life!

“Have not been to Church as much as I’d like. Still have not found my fit for a Church family but now that I will be working a bit less and having hopefully less stress work wise I can focus more on my Church/Social life“- good idea, but proceed with caution. The very thing you need (we all need), socializing, connecting with others, can be a source of anxiety and turmoil. Evaluate people, be selective and patient, one step at a time.. slowly,  cautiously.

Back on Jan 9, 2019, 5 years ago, and a year before you moved to Florida, I wrote to you: “Pause  between feeling badly and automatically reacting to the bad feeling…  In that pause calm down and think logically. Focus on functioning effectively, communicating with others effectively, living effectively, producing win-win interactions with others.

“Functioning effectively and producing those win-win interactions (avoiding people with whom such  is not possible) will make you feel better over time and give you the practice you need…  Take  breaks from anxiety and distress by exercising, taking walks…  Make a routine of such (positive) distractions, ex., a walk  per day at a certain time, if possible. When you experience conflicts with other people, it is time for conflict resolution skills…  Read about and practice Mindfulness, exercise it daily”-

– still good advice today, so that you continue to make progress on top of the progress you already made, slowly, patiently.

“How are you Anita?? I hope you are doing very well. I am happy to see you still write.“- thank you! I am fine, given how much it rains here! Still focusing on having a positive meaning in my life. Communicating with you again this morning is giving me the positive meaning that I need, a feeling that I am busy doing something good, intended for your benefit and mine.

anita

Dear Alina:

I am sorry about all the hardships you’ve been going through, and for so long!

“I was so happy that I found someone who is same as me (as I thought for that time), we had gone through the same pain during our growing up period, we had same interests, we both wanted serious relationship and family“- you’d think that a person who experienced pain growing up, wouldn’t want to inflict pain on another, but that’s not what happens: people in pain often pass on the pain to others.

“He sent me flowers, jewelry, he came to the country where i was working for that time, took me to the most expensive restaurants and hotels, bought me gifts. Everything was perfect, I was being myself, I could talk about anything and make fun about everything because he always get along and never judged me“- you were being yourself and you trusted that he was being himself, but he was being his best self version at the time, a best self version that was not sustainable.

“I couldn’t pay my rent (my boyfriend helped me with this), I was starving, I got sick. That time I told my boyfriend that I don’t want to stay in this country and I want to go back home. He started to accuse me for being lazy, for not being ambitious enough to start to look for another job in this country“-at this point and on, he started being more of himself, going beyond or deeper than his best version. His best version was based on and dependent on you working and living in the country where he wanted you to stay. (I wonder if he had hopes to move there with you after you settled there, if you settled there).

“He was born in rich country, his family had connections, even the job he is working now he got there thanks to his fathers call! He never went outside of his home country to work or to study. He only went outside just to travel… Last 1.5 year he was just working and sitting at home and eating!“- maybe he was depressed at home, and wanted to move away from his family and country, but didn’t feel confident in his abilities to move to a different country on his own. He needed connections there. The country you were in felt right for him.. and you were his connection there.. until he lost that connection when you moved back to your home country.

“So I told him that I want to go and he started calling me lazy“- I am thinking that he wanted his connection to stay in the country he considered moving to, and that he called you lazy not because he thought that you were lazy, but because he wanted to discourage you from moving away from his country of interest.

“Also I want to add that, he suddenly became SOO ‘ambitious’ when I came in his life. He lost 20 kgs in very short time, he started to go to gym and nearly everyday going out with his friends“- continuing with my theory (and I didn’t read yet the rest of your post, so it’ll be interesting to see if my theory is correct or not), maybe he got out of his depression when he thought that you will be helping him to move out of his family’s home and country to his country of interest, to live and work there.

“He idealized me so so much. Yes, I was ambitious, I am clever, I had business ideas, I could make networks..“- he idealized you as someone capable of helping him, as I indicated above.

“... He broke up with me.. he told me that I hurt him so much when I said ‘i will leave u’… He told me that there are so many things that he didn’t care before and now he needs to take care of them“- I think that these were excuses and not true reasons for him wanting to break up with you. I think that in the past, he placed you on a pedestal, believing that you have the ability to.. save him from his depression and dysfunctions, and that was the reason for him losing weight and being his best (unsustainable) generous, kind and positively attentive version. Once you were off that pedestal, his interest in you was greatly weakened.

“He was so stressed that I will depend on him, he told me this few times that I shouldn’t depend on him“- he wanted to depend on you. He felt too weak to depend on himself or to be depended on by you (or anyone, I imagine). For as long as you worked in that country, he placed you on a pedestal, seeing you as the strong person he needed outside of his family and his country.

“No one is perfect in this life and all human beings make mistakes, I didn’t cheat, I didn’t betray, I did mistakes but I told him all about these, I realized my mistakes and told them and asked for forgiveness. I was ready to improve and work on our relationship“- he broke up with you not because of your mistakes but because you fell off his pedestal as his potential savior.

“He loved me on my highest and left me on my lowest“-he loved you up there high on his pedestal, and only when you were up there.

“I feel so hurt, I am overthinking this every day. Why would u leave someone who loves you so much… why not overcoming all these problems together on move in life together?“- because he felt too weak to live independently, on his own, and he felt too weak/ inferior to be on equal grounds with you, working on things together as equals. He needed someone above him, someone to look up to as the strong, capable one… like a boy who needs to look up to a strong, capable parent.

“We were so good together“- you being yourself and him being his unsustainable, time- limited version were good together.

“Was that only idealization-devalue-decline process or what was that?“- yes, I believe that you are correct, that’s what it was: he placed you on a pedestal because he needed you up there (idealization) and then you lost that elevated position in his mind (devaluation). It’s not your fault, it’s not about your mistakes. It’s about him not feeling capable and confident in his abilities to make independent, adult life possible for himself, that’s how I see it.

anita

Dear Peace:

I am glad that the operation was successful and the thyroids removed.

“I feel more free now. I used to feel like I had to prove myself to my siblings, but not anymore. I don’t think my value depends on what I achieve or how much money I have. I’m not working hard just to get respect from my family. I also don’t feel the need to always please my older sister. Her opinions about me and the fact that she invested money in me don’t control me anymore. As I think about it, I realize that maybe I saw my older siblings as parental figures because my father was not around when I was young. I looked to them for love, support, and protection, much like a child looks to a father“-

– This is an excellent testimony to what a huge difference a good man (your husband) and a healthy relationship can make in a young woman’s life, leading to you being mentally/emotionally so much healthier now than you were before. Your insight is excellent, and your sense of freedom well deserved.

You shared back in July 21, 2021, about your now-husband, and about the relationship with him: “He is a great guy …he is the person with whom I’m having a healthy relationship, who listens to me, cares for me, doesn’t react when something doesn’t go according to plan ,respects me and respects my space and boundary”.

May your loyalty be with him, your new, chosen family, and again, a pleasure and a thrill to read from you again!

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

“My father though, was more the situation where I would expose weakness to satisfy an aggressor. With N I… actually held my ground very often if… he got verbally aggressive, like the C-word incident… I was holding my ground. Contrary to my dad who I would belly up or else he wouldn’t stop“- When I mentioned the belly-up response to aggression, or the potential of aggression, I wasn’t thinking about you doing that, but generally. I am not surprised you did this with F, but not with N. Like you said, N was an upgrade over F.

“We wondered if our good ‘thirst quenching’ conversation, was only to be had between women, I doubt this, but I don’t have much evidence to say that is false“- I think that it’s more likely to happen between women because of traditional gender roles and traits taught to and enforced in boys vs girls.

“As in they cannot experience two emotions at once? Or they cannot link scenarios and emotions“- for one, being on a lot of weed every day means that he is not likely to be mindful/ aware of his emotions, plus I don’t think that he thinks and overthinks trying to figure out things )like you and I do), weed or not.

“What do you do instead to entertain yourself, with REAL LIFE? I suppose come to this forum!“- yes, real-life stories!

“Do you ever go see plays? I enjoy plays and tv shows…“- I am sure some plays are high quality and some movies as well. Problem is I have ADD, ever since I was a child, so it is very hard for me to follow conversations and plot development by hearing/ listening. Here on the forums, I can follow details because it’s on the computer screen and I have all the time I need to re-arrange the information, re-read, edit my writings, etc.

“I wonder what my next topic should be… I feel afraid to start a forum where I don’t feel as understood as I do here…“- I am glad you feel understood here! And I have no need or preference whatsoever that you start a new thread, it is totally up to you!

Good evening and night, Seaturtle. I want to say: I think very highly of you and it’s my pleasure to communicate with you!

anita

Dear Seaturtle: I will read and reply to you later (soon will be going out and into the cold).

anita

Dear Peace:

I am doing fine, thank you, and  I am thrilled to read back from you!

C  o  N  g  R  a  T  u  L  a  T  i  O  n  S    for getting married, Mrs. Peace!

“I have alottt to talk about“- do talk to me about anything you want to talk about. And please tell me: what kind of surgery did you have?

And is your new freedom about no longer needing to people-please your family of origin, and no longer being afraid to disappoint them?

anita

Dear Ocean:

I would like to help you answer all of the questions you brought up, but I don’t have enough information. Therefore, I am hoping that following a conversation between the two of us, I will be able to help you answer your questions. In this reply, I will bring up possibilities, and ask questions:

1) “He is very sensitive… I know I can easily tell him all of this instead of typing it here on this forum but I feel like he will take it the wrong way or get offended by what I am saying“- has your experience been that you are walking on eggshells when talking with him or planning to talk to him, that you have to be careful about the words you choose and what you say, so that he does not take what you say the wrong way and get offended?

There are people who are offensive and so, understandably people feel offended by them. But there are people who feel offended even when there is no real offense. Growing up with my mother, there was hardly anything that I could say that she wouldn’t take the wrong way and get offended by. Anything I said (or failed to say), she represented as if I was thinking something negative about her, and trying to hurt her feelings. Of course, I walked on eggshells, or on a minefield, so to speak, not knowing what bomb is going to explode next, under my feet. No matter how hard I tried, there was always the next time she felt offended and angrily let me know about it.

This, what I just shared, is an extreme example of what I am talking about, but is any of this true in regard to your boyfriend?

2) “I feel like our families are also a bit different. His family dynamic is much more different than mine“- when choosing a lifetime partner, it is very important to learn about his family dynamic, because he may continue the same dynamic in a marriage with you. Would you like to share about his family dynamic as opposed to yours?

3) “I feel like I’m always bringing up the serious conversations about our future together which in turn makes me feel like I’m forcing this connection“- do you mean that he shows a lack of interest in serous conversations about the future: that he is not interested in such conversations.. or in a future with you? Can you give me an example of such a conversation: (part of) what you said to him, and (part of) what he said back, or how he reacted?

4) “I feel like there’s no value in me being in this relationship. I can confidently say I am an added value for him, but I certainly don’t feel like any positives were added to my life…I also feel like I am not emotionally fulfilled in this relationship“- how are you an added value to him, in what ways? What kinds of positives/ emotional fulfillment could he add to your life if he acted differently from the way he does (examples)?

And now, my answers to your question without further information:

“I also have this constant doubt and fear that this is not meant for me. Am I supposed to be thinking and feeling these things while being in a healthy relationship?“- no, you are not supposed to have constant or any serious doubts about the relationship being right for you. Having constant, or very frequent doubts means that the relationship is not healthy. It takes two people who are confident about being in the relationship to make it a healthy relationship.

“Why am I constantly worried about the future of our relationship?“- (1) maybe because he is the wrong guy for you, for example, if he is interested in marriage but not in having serious, reasonable conversations about the future marriage, or if he takes so much of what you say the wrong way and feels offended when there is no such intent or real offense on your part, (2) maybe because you suffer from what is termed relationship anxiety (or relationship OCD), and therefore’ you’d be anxious about a relationship with any man, no matter how close to perfect he might be.

“Why is my mind and heart saying different things?“- maybe because your heart is telling you what it needs/ wishes your boyfriend to be, and your mind is telling you.. who he really is.

“How do I know if this is just made up anxiety and worries, and that I am in a good relationship?“- well, clearly, you are not in a good relationship because of the way you feel about it, the doubts, the confusion. Whether the anxiety and worries would be there no matter the guy (aka relationship anxiety/ OCD) is a question.

“How do I know if this is meant for me?“- this is meant for you only if you get to a place where you feel confident about being in the relationship.

“How will I know if it is time to let go?“- you will know if your mind and your heart are telling you the same thing, and not different things (as they are telling you now).

You ended your original post with saying that you have a lot of love for him. It takes a lot of courage to see a man you love (aka a man to whom you are emotionally attached), as he is, when what you see means that you should leave him. It’s difficult to leave someone you are emotionally attached to.

It also takes courage to see yourself as you are, for example, to see your own childhood as it truly was, and how it causes or adds (if it does) to your current anxiety.

I hope to read back from you and to help you dispel your confusion.

anita