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May 14, 2024 at 10:19 am in reply to: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships #432658
anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
I feel (and I may be wrong) that this post may be the most useful/ potentially most helpful post that I ever submitted to you. Again, this is my feeling, it may not be your feeling. Please have patience with this (one more) long post. Some of it may be distressing for you to read. As always, read if you choose to read, at your chosen pace, allowing yourself to accept or reject.
Your very first post, July 29, 2023 (I am adding the boldface feature):Ā “He is supportive, he encourages me to do what I LOVE.. He is truly a stand up man, he is so kind and deeply cares for those around him… Butā¦ all he ever says is… blah blah blah all these super un-original things… I donāt feel seen… N doesnāt really laugh at my jokes…I donāt think we are soulmates… is this all just me running away from the most genuine and loving/caring/kind/PATIENT/ would-do-anything-for-me man ?????????????? I really have been having this entire debate in my head for a straight 6-8 months now and I donāt want to waste my time, I want to move on or commit… I donāt want to make the wrong decision and make him the one that got away. I also donāt want to be ungrateful and expect that thereās something better out there for me, that feels like dangerous territory of having too high of standards that Iām single foreverā¦ I am exhausted with this decision and thought the answer would have come to me by now“.
Oct 13, 2023: “My dad felt unseen and would internally accuse me of not seeing his pain and empathizing with him… My dad to this day still very often misinterprets what I do and who I am and it hurts every time, he thinks I am selfish and is probably why I have fears of being selfish or narcissistic. It is scary when someone tells you that you are coming across a certain way that is unbeknownst to you, it makes me self conscious about how I do come across, which if I let myself overthink this I become awkward in social situations… Ā I find myself wanting to criticize my partner for similar things my dad criticized me for, like ‘not seeing me.’ A mentality like, if I have to be hyper aware of what I am doing, like responding to messages, cleaning up after myself hyper-vigilantly, making sure YOU are seen, then why shouldnāt you have to be too.. Like he will leave a mess at my apartment, something I would be way too self conscious to do at his house and I have to actively stop myself from resenting that he feels the freedom to do those things and I cannot live with it. As if I wish he had the same anxieties as meā¦ I just wish he could at least empathize my internal torment“.
Oct 16, 2023: “He feels he is always consoling me and sometimes does not have the patience to do so… So far the only things that makes me feel better are talking about it and feeling he understands why it bothers me, otherwise I also get an impulse to pull away… it has ruined dates before, where I feel unsettled/triggered the whole time and struggle to move on, and become irritated how quickly he moves on… I feel I am falling out of love with him because of how worn out I feel from being triggered at a faster rate than I can heal… so much of our relationship in the last year has been about me and my triggers…Ā we rarely go a whole day without him triggering me in some way… I recently find myself breaking up with him in my head and how I would explain myself, but I do not want to lose him”.
May 13, 2024 (you are the one adding the boldface feature here): “Despite my best efforts to want to just let go completely, it seems itās like a boomerang, just as I think it is the farthest it has ever been, it comes shooting back… I fear that he will improve for someone else, and it was me who wasnāt worth it, that I didnāt do enough in the relationship. My desire is to just fully let go! And I feel like I have.. but then this boomerang came back to me the past 3 days or so… I am afraid it is right and that my path wonāt ever lead me to another partner… these emotions are uncomfortable and I find myself wanting to escape them with alcohol, weed, tv, even contacting him”.
<p id=”mntl-sc-block_1-0″ class=”comp mntl-sc-block mntl-sc-block-html”>Very well health. com: “Relationship OCD (ROCD) is a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder that involves obsessions, preoccupations, doubts, and compulsive behaviors related to a relationship with another person… This article focuses on ROCD in romantic relationships, exploring the causes, symptoms, and ways of managing ROCD.</p>
“Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is a mental health disorder characterized by intrusive and distressing thoughts, impulses (obsessions), and repetitive behaviors (compulsions). ROCD is a form of OCD that is explicitly focused on relationships.“Having some degree of worry or doubt in a relationship is typical. Still, for people with relationship OCD, these preoccupations significantly disrupt the relationship and the person’s ability to function as an individual. They constantly analyze themselves, their partner, or their relationship, obsessing over even minor perceived flaws…
“Obsessive symptoms in ROCD can include: * Extreme fear of making the wrong relationship-related decision (alternating between anxiety over the thought of leaving the relationship and anxiety over being ‘trapped’ in the wrong relationship) * Overwhelming doubts and fears relating to how they feel toward their partner, how they believe their partner feels about them, and whether or not the relationship is ‘right’. * Hyper-focusing on perceived flaws they see in their partner * Fear that they aren’t ‘good enough’ for their partner *…
<p id=”mntl-sc-block_44-0″ class=”comp mntl-sc-block mntl-sc-block-html”>”People with ROCD may perceive innocuous thoughts and behaviors as ‘signs’ that they don’t really love their partner or that their relationship isn’t viable. These can include:*Ā Not thinking about their partner all day long * Not completely enjoying a kiss or act of intimacy * Noticing that another person is attractive * Enjoying having time to themselves on occasion * Not always being in the mood for sexual intimacy…</p>
<p class=”comp mntl-sc-block mntl-sc-block-html”>“Compulsive Behaviors: People with ROCD engage in compulsive behaviors in an attempt to relieve the anxiety caused by their obsessions. Compulsive behaviors common in ROCD include: * Monitoring/checking their feelings * Comparing, such as comparing their partner’s attributes to other potential partners or comparing their relationship to those around them, past relationships, relationships on TV, etc. * Neutralizing, such as picturing themselves and their partner happy together or trying to recall good experiences with their partner * Reassurance-seeking about their partner or relationship by consulting with friends, family, therapists, or even psychic… * Being constantly on a quest for ‘perfect’ love * Creating rules for their partner and questioning the relationship if their partner does not uphold them… Compulsive behaviors may provide temporary relief from obsessive thoughts, but the obsessions always return.</p>
“The age of onset of ROCD is not known. Still, clinical evidence has shown symptoms often begin to present in early adulthood or when a person is first faced with commitment-related romantic decisions… ROCD symptoms often persist from one relationship to another and can occur when a person is not actively in a relationship (such as having obsessions about past or future relationships)…“Summary: ROCD is a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder in which a person experiences obsessions and compulsions related to their relationships. It can involve symptoms such as constantly questioning if they really want to be with their partner, being hyper-focused on perceived flaws they see in their partner, and seeking reassurance or proof that their relationship is “right.” ROCD can cause distress to the individual experiencing it and strain their relationship. ROCD is typically treated with therapy, particularly CBT or ERP, but medication may be prescribed if necessary to help with symptom relief.”
I suggested ROCD to you before, but you didn’t consider it back then. Today, I am amazed by how fitting the description of ROCD is with what you shared throughout your many posts (many, many more and longer than what I quoted above), the fit is huge. Psychotherapy that aims to treat ROCD can be a huge help for you.
Notice this quote from very well health: “ROCD symptoms often persist from one relationship to another and can occur when a person is not actively in a relationship (such as having obsessions about past or future relationships)“- you are not actively in a relationship with N- at least not when you posted last- but ROCD symptoms persist in regard to N while not in a relationship with him. In a future relationship with a different man, symptoms are likely to persist. The way I see it: no man can be perfect enough to make you feel seen and content when it is still your father’s unseeing and disapproving eyes that you see.
Fear is a very powerful emotion, a very powerful energy in-motion. I no longer have these dreams, but I used to: my mother looking at me, saying nothing, just staring at me with undeniable disapproval and condemnation. That’s all. Interpreting this dream using chakra language: her staring at me with condemnation blinded my third eye, created an earthquake in my crown chakra and hit my heart chakra with a dagger, making me bleed to (almost) death.
Remember you shared that you were watched like a hawk, and I responded with: you were watched, but you were not seen? This is true to my experience and my dream above: she watched me; she didn’t see me. If she saw me, she would have approved of me, which would have made it possible for her to love me (for how can you love someone you disapprove of?)
A parent’s disapproving/ condemning look hits a child’s heart like a dagger, an emotional dagger. I don’t have that dream anymore, but when I notice someone sigh, I automatically think it’s a disapproving (of me) sigh. WhenĀ I notice an unhappy look, I still think it’s a disapproving look. I still see her in other people. (And so, I don’t really see other people when I see her in them).
You are not a beginner, Seaturtle, you have insight (3rd eye) and a lot more. I learn from you. And/ but.. when a parent’s legacy is a condemning look/ message, it is very difficult to recover from.
anita
anitaParticipantDear SadSoul:
“I think Iām the ugliest misshapen person in the world thanks her.Ā I didnāt think I should have accepted my bonus the other week because ofĀ her.Ā I donāt ask for help or accept it because ofĀ her.Ā I canāt relax in social settings because ofĀ herĀ constant criticism..“- the legacy of a mother. No Mother’s Day card pay tributes to this kind of legacy.
“The two steps forwards one back, only usually itās one step forward and nine back, but one is better than them all being backwards!“- I had a setback last evening, slept very little, very tired today and feeling off, better at the moment though. I got very angry at a person in real-life and then I sank into depression. I realized this afternoon that my anger was about seeking power (not a bad kind of power, but a just kind) in regard to this person, but then crashed into my lifetime mental state of powerlessness, as in not having any say in making things go my way. The depression that followed felt to be of the traumatic kind. Growing up (growing in) severely powerless is traumatic, (thanks.. Mom)
“Every word is the truth so believe it“- thank you, SadSoul.
“I hope you didnāt! There is no need to. Even if we disagree on something, each of our opinions, etc., are totally valid and worthy, and neither of us intend on hurting the other. Believe in this“- I read this and took it in. Again, thank you.
“I understand the fear of losing someone, even someone I chat to online with, and imagine adventures of bear sized awesomeness. But whatās more important is that you know that if I was that easily offended, and didnāt give you the decency of an explanation, that would be on me; that would be a massive defect in me, not you“- mmm… unlike the legacy left by her: easily offended, no explanationĀ allowed, and “justified’ for mercilessly offending me.
“Get out there and chase a bear, will ya?“- my first real, although small smile in this off, traumatic-feeling day (I might share about it in my thread, tomorrow). Talking about bears and chasing, a neighbor up the hill used to walk the route I walk (route 1) and was chased by a bear. Wasn’t able to walk again, too scared. Her husband bought her a treadmill so she could walk at home, safe from bears. Fast forward, she died (not bear-related). The husband, aware that I am indeed a walking legend in the area (a walking legend in my own mind, that is), gifted me her treadmill which sits (huge) in the sun room. Fast forward, the neighbor cut some trees on his property, one fell on him, and sometime later, he died. A couple from California bought his house and.. the only leftover from their house (that I know of) is my treadmill. Precious treadmill, thank you fine folks, much appreciated.
“Iām a little anxious about how Iām going to spread myself between all the work. First week in and itās okay so far ā ha, second day is so much proof itāll be fine. Iām focusing on hopefully being able to save towards my big thing I want“- a treadmill..? Just kidding. It’s a good thing you wanting something of the positive kind (curious as always)!
“Hey! I might fit right in, in your wild wild west! I donāt have a gun but I loved western movies when I was a kid. Thatās a nice memory. My grandfather put them on the tv and we watched them together“- I shot the sheriff, but I didn’t shoot the deputy.
“How are you going? Donāt feel shy about sharing you and your life, Iām not judgmental. But also I understand not putting too much out there“- let’s see, something else I can share…personal.. I don’t know.. the other day (could have been yesterday), you shared it was raining a lot where you’re at-Ā I googled different areas of the British-spelling parts of the world when it rained a lot.. nothing conclusive came up.
“I had a wonderful weekend. Had one progeny here… He messaged again too. Itās an odd emotional roller-coaster but I anticipated it would be. Oddly my emotions arenāt super intense”– wonderful weekend with progeny is a very good thing! No super intense emotions about the youngest’s latest messages is a good thing too. Stay Strong, even keeled!
“Have a lovely cup of something and put your feet up. One of the progeny and I went through a mulled wine stage, weād make it ourselves. I can imagine us sitting around a fire, late in the evening, with our mugs of sweet spicy bliss. No bears, thanks!“- no bears here, at the moment, not indoors, that is,Ā and a glass of wine to my left..
anita
anitaParticipantDear Kshitij:
You are welcome.
Back in April, you shared (I am adding the boldface feature selectively): “there was a point in my teens when I began to feel as if I had nothing good in me apart from my academics… I have never heard an appreciation or compliment from my father about my nature, about who I am apart from studies. Instead from early childhood, I would get to listen to very harsh criticism and āsermonsā (if the word conveys what I try to say) on even the most trivial issues. he would use to presume that in any given situation, I would be automatically at fault. It was like he had a problem with everything I did”.
Yesterday, May 12, you shared: “IĀ am sometimes surprised seeing that a memory which would cause rage to me five years ago has the same sting even today, and I feel as hurt…Ā Sometimes I just end up having violent rage-filled thoughts that ruin my mood and subsequently my day. No matter how many times I have gone over a past memory, it stirs the same emotions every single time… Almost every day I am stressed out about something or the other… I am stuck in the past… a voice in my head gets louder and louder, which thinks that I am not as good and smart as others… he (father) had literally said that I am not āsmartā like the other students” (May 12)-
– Your father truly had a problem with everything about you, including your studies/ academics (not apart from your academics). His Harshly Disapproving, Critical Voice was broad-based, wide-ranging, large-scale, extensive and persistent: he disapproved of everything about you. Including at the time you suffered from your spine disease when harshness was most inappropriate.
No wonder such an extensive, persistent, frequent Harsh Disapproval & Criticism from him led to extensive, persistent, frequent rage within you.
“Rage… hurt.. rage-filled thoughts…No matter how many times I have gone over a past memory, it stirs the same emotions every single time… Almost every day I am stressed out about something or the other… I am stuck in the past“- your father’s Voice is active within you and so is your Emotional Reaction to his voice: rage, hurt, rage filed thoughts and stress.
Your emotional reactions to his voice are humanly natural and normal. it is normal to feel rage when abused, and persistent rage when persistently abused. You are currently residing in a different, far away country (U.K.) from your father, but his Voice is residing in your head. And every time you hear his voice on the phone or in-person during a visit, his voice in your head is energized, and so is your emotional reactions to his Voice, keeping you stuck in the past.
Looking at the title of your thread: Intrusive and Anxious Thoughts, I would add to it: hurt and Rage-filled Thoughts: Intrusive, Anxious, Hurt and Rage-filled Thoughts.
These thoughts are a normal reaction to his Voice (his voice in-person and his voice in your head).
How can you possibly avoid a normal reaction? The only way is to remove the action, i.e., , the threat: his Voice. His Voice has (still) a problem with everything about you. You have to turn down the volume of that voice down and turn up the volume of a different voice, one that says:
Kshitij, you are a good girl, you are a good person. I like you. Whatever you feel, Kshitij is okay with me. I accept you just you are. It is okay, Shitij, to feel angry and rageful, hurt and anxious, it’s all understandable, all normal reactions to abuse.
I am here for you, Kshitij. I am your friend. I will help you turn the volume down on that other voice, so that you have the peace of mind that you so desperately need and deserve.
Shh… hush his sermons, hush his criticism.. hush his abuse. You don’t deserve it, you never deserved it. You were never guilty of it. He was, he is.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Maggie:
Reads like he got scared to move in with you, and he was scared to tell you about it. I am sorry that this had happened to you and that you have to see him every day. I wish he had the courage to face his fears and … the courage to face you in an honest, direct way.
anita
anitaParticipantDear PJ:
I hope that any of the members who posted here last (Aug 2013, 10+ years ago), will reply to you. You are welcome to post again here, in this thread, or, if you would like, you are welcome to start your own thread (go to Forums at the top of the page).
anita
anitaParticipantDear SadSoul:
“if I felt hurt, I’d tell you… I would not just disappear“- thank you!
“I have one of my kids here so Iām going to go and enjoy them… I have a smile on my face!”- take all the time that you need before posting again, I want this smile to remain on your face for as long as it will !
anita
anitaParticipantDear Laven:
It is a good thing that you keep expressing your thoughts and feelings about the events in your life. Please continue to express yourself. If, just in case, you would like my input/ my advice on anything, please let me know. Wishing you well !
anita
May 11, 2024 at 12:54 pm in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #432584anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:
Continuing the imagery: when a sea turtle encounters a shark in deep-sea-reality, the shark attacks (Wins), the sea turtle dies (Loses), Game Over. In human society, people snap at each other every day, sometimes resulting in death, but more often, people get emotionally hurt, carrying injuries from one day to the next, continuing both: to hurt others and to get hurt. This is the complex human society reality. We get to be shark in the morning, sea turtle the in the evening.
In every day of my life, I want to not hurt others (to do-no-harm), and I want to not get harmed by others. I am not a saint (I am not here to absorb others’ aggression, turning the other cheek), but I am not a tit-for-tat person either. I’ll remove myself from harm and focus on what is good and helpful, best I can, morning, noon and night.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lulu:
Good to read your update! I read your ever word even though I am not responding to every word.
“It was nice being called beautiful“- it makes me smile to read this: beautiful Lulu, it sounds Lovely!
“I think what was most jarring was everyone saying how different I looked when I didnāt feel or act any different“- I guess you don’t feel different from one day to the next, but them not having seen you for many, may days, could tell the positive difference.
“Yesterday, I got all four of my wisdom teeth taken out… and asked the nurse if she loved me over and over again… I kept apologizing for not being perfect… My mom and the nurse hugged me and told me they loved me and it was going to be ok“- I am glad the hugged you and told you that they love you.
No one is perfect: not the nurse, not your mom, not me, not anyone. You are in good, imperfect company, Lulu!
“My current goals are graduating on time with a smile on my face, keeping up with my antidepressants and healing from my mouth surgery. Iām still nervous about college, but I think that Iāll be fine so long as I keep my confidence up, so I think Iāll be fine.”– You are fine, Lulu!
“In the meantime, how have you been Anita?“- tired but fine as well. The rain stopped, summer is approaching quickly..
Take good care of yourself, Lovely Lulu!
anita
anita
May 11, 2024 at 11:38 am in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #432582anitaParticipant(I give up… that’s what happens when you type under water, lol)
May 11, 2024 at 11:37 am in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #432581anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:āThe other uncles, some of them took it upon themselves to āteach meā things. If I didnāt say āpleaseā or āthank youā, I would be pinched, hard. If I didnāt say āuncleā before their name I would be tickled to tears, void of breath and bruisesā¦ My grandpa was never home. When he was home, he was stingy and rude, but also a social butterfly and philosophical when he was in a good moodā- this gives me a bit of a look into the home in which your father grew up. Seems like he took on his fatherās stingy attitude and social butterfly persona.I imagine that if your father didnāt say āpleaseā or āthank youā, he too was strongly disapproved of, punished in some way. So, he saidĀ pleaseĀ andĀ thank youĀ and all other social-butterfly expressions, but didnāt mean any of them, forming aĀ superficialĀ persona, saying all the right things but not meaning them, remaining on the surface, avoiding depth.But angry within for not saying what he meant, for not being allowed to speak genuinely.When you lived in his home, as a teenager, he was angry that you allowed yourself what he wasnāt allowed: to leave traces of yourself around the house, while he, growing up, had to hideĀ genuine traces of himself.The first time you shared about him was on Oct 11 last year (I will add my comments to what you share in parentheses, boldfaced): āMy dad is highly superficial (highly superficial)ā¦ When my car was stolenā¦ he took all the insurance money and justified not giving any of it to me (stingy)ā¦ when I lived with him alone from 16-20ā¦Ā he would make fun of me if I was sitting at home watching tv mid-day I would not hear the end of it, judging me, saying.. āyou are lazyā (growing up, he wasnāt allowed to relax in front of the TV, told he was lazy)ā¦ He was very critical (growing up, his genuine self was strongly criticized), I left a dish in his sink at his house, or left my backpack downstairs, basically left any trace of myself in āhisā house, he would get upsetĀ (growing up, his genuine self was not allowed visibility, he had to hide it)ā¦ Every 3 monthsā¦Ā he would list all the ways I had exemplified being āungratefulā at his houseā¦ My dad would accuse me of planning my showers around avoiding talking to him, or if I was upstairs when he got home, I was expected to come had conversation with him (āhe demanded visibility, wanting you to see him when he was home, not to be ignored)ā.The email he sent you recently, following you staying in one of his houses:Ā āI am so happy you had such a wonderful time. Makes me feel good about the investment I made into our familyās future!ā¦ Love you and feel so proud, blessed, fortunate to be able to offer that luxury to one of my favorite people in the world. Miss you! (red heart emoji)Ā ā-ā I imagine that when he typed this email, his face was expressionless, not at all congruent with theĀ so happy,Ā makes me feel good,Ā !!Ā andĀ red heart emoji. I think that his elated, optimistic, excited expressions are not genuine. They lack depth. He is doing his social lubrication/ public relations kind of communication with you.Back to your yesterdayās posts:āI think this is why we help each other understand ourselves, because we have a very similar voice in our heads. What do you think?ā- I agree. The following didnāt occur to me until this very morning: your father and my mother have this in common: growing up invisible and angrily, demanded excessive visibility from their daughters, your father,Ā during his āhouse cleaningā sessions; my mother, during her poor-me, histrionic sessions.In my motherās excessive demands that I seeĀ herĀ caused me to set my eyes on her, to not seeĀ me or anyone,Ā but her.āIn moments of fight/flight/freeze I have always been such a fighterā- a fighting sea turtle (sea turtles chase, bite, hit with their shells, butt heads, literally.. so I read).āYou are so humble, self-reflective, and amazing for admitting this hereā- thank you.āOn one hand I find this old interpretation validatingā¦ because I donāt feel like I am the only one who does thisā¦ On the other hand, it is disheartening, because as someone I look up to, someone I see as farther in her healing than I am, the fact you still experience and give energy to this voiceā¦ that means that voice still tries to attack even later in my healing journey as well. I want to rid it for good!!ā- patience, young grasshopper.. I mean, young sea turtle, lol. (and patience, anita). The voice does get weaker. Itās not loud, and it doesnāt take center stage like it used to.āI saw him through my dadās perspective of me, āyou are not attentive enough.ā If I did not make him feel heard, I was what my dad saidā¦ āyou are not enough.āā- growing up, he felt invisible, unheard, unseen. Fast forward, as an adult, he demanded that you see him. But hisĀ core emotional unseenĀ experience was cemented within him before you were born. It was not, and is not in your power to dissolve his cement.Interesting, how by demanding that you see him, he created yourĀ core emotional unseen experience, about which we talked in the past, an experience thatās in the process of being dissolved, good job, Seaturtle!āThe voice within me is ānothing is enough.ā ā¦ Hence my fear of being disappointed! So to heal I need to believe, everything is enough the way it is.. ?ā¦ I wonder if having compassion for his undeniable misery and exhaustion, can be helpful to me in some way..ā- having compassion for yourself andĀ seeing youĀ will be helpful. Ā As well as seeing him the way he isĀ underneath his social lubrication/ public relationship presentation. See him wit your third eye.āI have had many people in my life tell me my authentic self was selfish. My dad, my ex, my sisters, and now a childhood friend, P. When I spoke with P she said I lacked empathy for her ADHD that caused her to talk over me. And that I lacked empathy for her relationship situation.. Am I just supposed to not believe them?ā- for anyone who (1) knows how sensitive you are about being told that you are selfish, and (2) is willing to exploit your sensitivity and use it as a weapon against you.. will accuse you for being selfish and hold you captive.Therefore, if 1 & 2 is true to P, then, yes, donāt believe her. (By the way, talking excessively and over another person, as P does, is by definition a selfish behavior).Your father created this sensitivity in you and Iām guessing that your sisters became aware of this sensitivity over the years, willing to use it against you..?āAt 25 I want all the people who said my authentic self is bad to see that it is not and to tell me that it is notā- it serves some peopleās selfish interest to say that you are bad, people who want to feel better at your expense.āMy soul is so beautiful but he put this huge scar on it that makes it hard for me to fully express myselfā¦ This is why I do believe I have a beautiful soul, and so do you!ā¦ We will never see ourselves as good if we look through their lens. But you can look through mine if you wantā- I am envisioning a sea turtle deep in the ocean, silently swimming toward me, itās very quiet deep in the water. I see your eyes as you approach, kind, brown sea turtle eyes.I say to the sea turtle: sea turtle, when you are close enough to a shark, and you look into the sharkās eyes, you will not see your authentic self. You will see a predator approaching his/ her meal.I will close my imagery with a dolphin-anita swimming side by side with a sea turtle in a blue-purple deep sea.anitaMay 11, 2024 at 11:34 am in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #432580anitaParticipantDear Seaturtle:āThe other uncles, some of them took it upon themselves to āteach meā things. If I didnāt say āpleaseā or āthank youā, I would be pinched, hard. If I didnāt say āuncleā before their name I would be tickled to tears, void of breath and bruisesā¦ My grandpa was never home. When he was home, he was stingy and rude, but also a social butterfly and philosophical when he was in a good moodā- this gives me a bit of a look into the home in which your father grew up. Seems like he took on his fatherās stingy attitude and social butterfly persona.I imagine that if your father didnāt say āpleaseā or āthank youā, he too was strongly disapproved of, punished in some way. So, he saidĀ pleaseĀ andĀ thank youĀ and all other social-butterfly expressions, but didnāt mean any of them, forming aĀ superficialĀ persona, saying all the right things but not meaning them, remaining on the surface, avoiding depth.But angry within for not saying what he meant, for not being allowed to speak genuinely.When you lived in his home, as a teenager, he was angry that you allowed yourself what he wasnāt allowed: to leave traces of yourself around the house, while he, growing up, had to hideĀ genuine traces of himself.The first time you shared about him was on Oct 11 last year (I will add my comments to what you share in parentheses, boldfaced): āMy dad is highly superficial (highly superficial)ā¦ When my car was stolenā¦ he took all the insurance money and justified not giving any of it to me (stingy)ā¦ when I lived with him alone from 16-20ā¦Ā he would make fun of me if I was sitting at home watching tv mid-day I would not hear the end of it, judging me, saying.. āyou are lazyā (growing up, he wasnāt allowed to relax in front of the TV, told he was lazy)ā¦ He was very critical (growing up, his genuine self was strongly criticized), I left a dish in his sink at his house, or left my backpack downstairs, basically left any trace of myself in āhisā house, he would get upsetĀ (growing up, his genuine self was not allowed visibility, he had to hide it)ā¦ Every 3 monthsā¦Ā he would list all the ways I had exemplified being āungratefulā at his houseā¦ My dad would accuse me of planning my showers around avoiding talking to him, or if I was upstairs when he got home, I was expected to come had conversation with him (āhe demanded visibility, wanting you to see him when he was home, not to be ignored)ā.The email he sent you recently, following you staying in one of his houses:Ā āI am so happy you had such a wonderful time. Makes me feel good about the investment I made into our familyās future!ā¦ Love you and feel so proud, blessed, fortunate to be able to offer that luxury to one of my favorite people in the world. Miss you! (red heart emoji)Ā ā-ā I imagine that when he typed this email, his face was expressionless, not at all congruent with theĀ so happy,Ā makes me feel good,Ā !!Ā andĀ red heart emoji. I think that his elated, optimistic, excited expressions are not genuine. They lack depth. He is doing his social lubrication/ public relations kind of communication with you.Back to your yesterdayās posts:āI think this is why we help each other understand ourselves, because we have a very similar voice in our heads. What do you think?ā- I agree. The following didnāt occur to me until this very morning: your father and my mother have this in common: growing up invisible and angrily, demanded excessive visibility from their daughters, your father,Ā during his āhouse cleaningā sessions; my mother, during her poor-me, histrionic sessions.In my motherās excessive demands that I seeĀ herĀ caused me to set my eyes on her, to not seeĀ me or anyone,Ā but her.āIn moments of fight/flight/freeze I have always been such a fighterā- a fighting sea turtle (sea turtles chase, bite, hit with their shells, butt heads, literally.. so I read).āYou are so humble, self-reflective, and amazing for admitting this hereā- thank you.āOn one hand I find this old interpretation validatingā¦ because I donāt feel like I am the only one who does thisā¦ On the other hand, it is disheartening, because as someone I look up to, someone I see as farther in her healing than I am, the fact you still experience and give energy to this voiceā¦ that means that voice still tries to attack even later in my healing journey as well. I want to rid it for good!!ā- patience, young grasshopper.. I mean, young sea turtle, lol. (and patience, anita). The voice does get weaker. Itās not loud, and it doesnāt take center stage like it used to.āI saw him through my dadās perspective of me, āyou are not attentive enough.ā If I did not make him feel heard, I was what my dad saidā¦ āyou are not enough.āā- growing up, he felt invisible, unheard, unseen. Fast forward, as an adult, he demanded that you see him. But hisĀ core emotional unseenĀ experience was cemented within him before you were born. It was not, and is not in your power to dissolve his cement.Interesting, how by demanding that you see him, he created yourĀ core emotional unseen experience, about which we talked in the past, an experience thatās in the process of being dissolved, good job, Seaturtle!āThe voice within me is ānothing is enough.ā ā¦ Hence my fear of being disappointed! So to heal I need to believe, everything is enough the way it is.. ?ā¦ I wonder if having compassion for his undeniable misery and exhaustion, can be helpful to me in some way..ā- having compassion for yourself andĀ seeing youĀ will be helpful. Ā As well as seeing him the way he isĀ underneath his social lubrication/ public relationship presentation. See him wit your third eye.āI have had many people in my life tell me my authentic self was selfish. My dad, my ex, my sisters, and now a childhood friend, P. When I spoke with P she said I lacked empathy for her ADHD that caused her to talk over me. And that I lacked empathy for her relationship situation.. Am I just supposed to not believe them?ā- for anyone who (1) knows how sensitive you are about being told that you are selfish, and (2) is willing to exploit your sensitivity and use it as a weapon against you.. will accuse you for being selfish and hold you captive.Therefore, if 1 & 2 is true to P, then, yes, donāt believe her. (By the way, talking excessively and over another person, as P does, is by definition a selfish behavior).Your father created this sensitivity in you and Iām guessing that your sisters became aware of this sensitivity over the years, willing to use it against you..?āAt 25 I want all the people who said my authentic self is bad to see that it is not and to tell me that it is notā- it serves some peopleās selfish interest to say that you are bad, people who want to feel better at your expense.āMy soul is so beautiful but he put this huge scar on it that makes it hard for me to fully express myselfā¦ This is why I do believe I have a beautiful soul, and so do you!ā¦ We will never see ourselves as good if we look through their lens. But you can look through mine if you wantā- I am envisioning a sea turtle deep in the ocean, silently swimming toward me, itās very quiet deep in the water. I see your eyes as you approach, kind, brown sea turtle eyes.I say to the sea turtle: sea turtle, when you are close enough to a shark, and you look into the sharkās eyes, you will not see your authentic self. You will see a predator approaching his/ her meal.I will close my imagery with a dolphin-anita swimming side by side with a sea turtle in a blue-purple deep sea.anitaMay 11, 2024 at 11:31 am in reply to: Surrender, Accessing Shakti by clearing samskaras, eliminating false selves #432579anitaParticipant* This post may appear messy with excess print. If that happens, ignore this post and I will submit a cleaned copy next.Dear Seaturtle:“The other uncles, some of them took it upon themselves to ‘teach me’ things. If I didnāt say ‘please’ or ‘thank you’, I would be pinched, hard. If I didnāt say ‘uncle’ before their name I would be tickled to tears, void of breath and bruises… My grandpa was never home. When he was home, he was stingy and rude, but also a social butterfly and philosophical when he was in a good mood“- this gives me a bit of a look into the home in which your father grew up. Seems like he took on his father’s stingy attitude and social butterfly persona.I imagine that if your father didn’t say “please” or “thank you”, he too was strongly disapproved of, punished in some way. So, he saidĀ pleaseĀ andĀ thank you and all other social-butterfly expressions, but didn’t mean any of them, forming a superficialĀ persona, saying all the right things but not meaning them, remaining on the surface, avoiding depth.But angry within for not saying what he meant, for not being allowed to speak genuinely.When you lived in his home, as a teenager, he was angry that you allowed yourself what he wasn’t allowed: to leave traces of yourself around the house, while he, growing up, had to hideĀ genuine traces of himself.The first time you shared about him was on Oct 11 last year (I will add my comments to what you share in parentheses, boldfaced): “My dad is highly superficial (highly superficial)… When my car was stolen… he took all the insurance money and justified not giving any of it to me (stingy)… when I lived with him alone from 16-20…Ā he would make fun of me if I was sitting at home watching tv mid-day I would not hear the end of it, judging me, saying.. ‘you are lazy’ (growing up, he wasn’t allowed to relax in front of the TV, told he was lazy)… He was very critical (growing up, his genuine self was strongly criticized), I left a dish in his sink at his house, or left my backpack downstairs, basically left any trace of myself in ‘his’ house, he would get upsetĀ (growing up, his genuine self was not allowed visibility, he had to hide it)… Every 3 months…Ā he would list all the ways I had exemplified being ‘ungrateful’ at his house… My dad would accuse me of planning my showers around avoiding talking to him, or if I was upstairs when he got home, I was expected to come had conversation with him (“he demanded visibility, wanting you to see him when he was home, not to be ignored)”.The email he sent you recently, following you staying in one of his houses:Ā “I am so happy you had such a wonderful time. Makes me feel good about the investment I made into our familyās future!… Love you and feel so proud, blessed, fortunate to be able to offer that luxury to one of my favorite people in the world. Miss you! (red heart emoji)Ā ā-– I imagine that when he typed this email, his face was expressionless, not at all congruent with theĀ so happy,Ā makes me feel good,Ā !!Ā andĀ red heart emoji. I think that his elated, optimistic, excited expressions are not genuine. They lack depth. He is doing his social lubrication/ public relations kind of communication with you.Back to your yesterday’s posts:“I think this is why we help each other understand ourselves, because we have a very similar voice in our heads. What do you think?“- I agree. The following didn’t occur to me until this very morning: your father and my mother have this in common: growing up invisible and angrily, demanded excessive visibility from their daughters, your father,Ā during his “house cleaning” sessions; my mother, during her poor-me, histrionic sessions.In my mother’s excessive demands that I seeĀ herĀ caused me to set my eyes on her, to not seeĀ me or anyone,Ā but her.“In moments of fight/flight/freeze I have always been such a fighter“- a fighting sea turtle (sea turtles chase, bite, hit with their shells, butt heads, literally.. so I read).“You are so humble, self-reflective, and amazing for admitting this here“- thank you.“On one hand I find this old interpretation validatingā¦ because I donāt feel like I am the only one who does this… On the other hand, it is disheartening, because as someone I look up to, someone I see as farther in her healing than I am, the fact you still experience and give energy to this voiceā¦ that means that voice still tries to attack even later in my healing journey as well. I want to rid it for good!!“- patience, young grasshopper.. I mean, young sea turtle, lol. (and patience, anita). The voice does get weaker. It’s not loud, and it doesn’t take center stage like it used to.“I saw him through my dad’s perspective of me, ‘you are not attentive enough.’ If I did not make him feel heard, I was what my dad saidā¦ ‘you are not enough.‘“- growing up, he felt invisible, unheard, unseen. Fast forward, as an adult, he demanded that you see him. But hisĀ core emotional unseenĀ experience was cemented within him before you were born. It was not, and is not in your power to dissolve his cement.Interesting, how by demanding that you see him, he created yourĀ core emotional unseen experience, about which we talked in the past, an experience that’s in the process of being dissolved, good job, Seaturtle!“The voice within me is ‘nothing is enough.’ ā¦ Hence my fear of being disappointed! So to heal I need to believe, everything is enough the way it is.. ?… I wonder if having compassion for his undeniable misery and exhaustion, can be helpful to me in some way..“- having compassion for yourself andĀ seeing youĀ will be helpful. Ā As well as seeing him the way he isĀ underneath his social lubrication/ public relationship presentation. See him wit your third eye.“I have had many people in my life tell me my authentic self was selfish. My dad, my ex, my sisters, and now a childhood friend, P. When I spoke with P she said I lacked empathy for her ADHD that caused her to talk over me. And that I lacked empathy for her relationship situation.. Am I just supposed to not believe them?”- for anyone who (1) knows how sensitive you are about being told that you are selfish, and (2) is willing to exploit your sensitivity and use it as a weapon against you.. will accuse you for being selfish and hold you captive.Therefore, if 1 & 2 is true to P, then, yes, don’t believe her. (By the way, talking excessively and over another person, as P does, is by definition a selfish behavior).Your father created this sensitivity in you and I’m guessing that your sisters became aware of this sensitivity over the years, willing to use it against you..?“At 25 I want all the people who said my authentic self is bad to see that it is not and to tell me that it is not“- it serves some people’s selfish interest to say that you are bad, people who want to feel better at your expense.“My soul is so beautiful but he put this huge scar on it that makes it hard for me to fully express myself… This is why I do believe I have a beautiful soul, and so do you!… We will never see ourselves as good if we look through their lens. But you can look through mine if you want“- I am envisioning a sea turtle deep in the ocean, silently swimming toward me, it’s very quiet deep in the water. I see your eyes as you approach, kind, brown sea turtle eyes.I say to the sea turtle: sea turtle, when you are close enough to a shark, and you look into the shark’s eyes, you will not see your authentic self. You will see a predator approaching his/ her meal.I will close my imagery with a dolphin-anita swimming side by side with a sea turtle in a blue-purple deep sea.anitaanitaParticipantDear SadSoul:
“I have been mia because my week has been huge, not anything whatever to do with you…“- you do know me. My first thought was that you were upset with me/ offended/ angry because I shared about people having guns in their homes. This thought repeated itself a few times in the last few days. Another thought: SadSoul is very busy at work, she said so earlier, so that’s probably why she didn’t post.
When I read your response about the guns (“You live in the wild, wild west!“), I saw no evidence to the first thought above.
And I am sure that you know that my suspicion that I said something wrong, and that as a result, people get offended and angry at me, has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that this was my real-life experience with you know whom: I’d say X (nothing with the intent to offend) and days or even weeks later, she’d bring it up and how much I had hurt her feelings, and how I intended to hurt her when I said X, and she’d go on and on about it. This is why I was very quiet, didn’t speak. I had vocal tics, but no words.
“I only locked in till October too, so itās not forever“- five months of very busy.
“I got a very long and newsy message from my son… I felt confused, cautious, and a bit numb… Now I feel at peace and grateful he gave me an update of his life. I hope itās the start of something better between us“- I hope so too. Peace and grateful is a good thing!
“Other than that it hasnāt stopped raining…”– wet soul, sad soul.
“You live in the wild, wild west!“- literally, yes.
“Salad without dressing is only suitable for rabbits to eat“- I now remember that shortly after I asked you if you use dressing on your salad, her (you know whose) disapproving, judgmental and accusatory voice said: of course she does not, dressing is for people like you who don’t appreciation elegant flavors! something like that. She was so very judgmental about people on an ongoing basis: too short, too tall, too thin, too … too loud, too quiet, what they wear, how they wear it, etc., and all this before passing judgment on what they say.
“How are you going? I hope itās been a tolerable week for you. Youāve been in my thoughts from time to time.“- been thinking of you too. It’s been very warm here, too warm at times, but tolerable. I felt unusually calm one day, I think it was yesterday. Now my right shoulder is twitching again, and hurting, too much coffee maybe.
Thank you for your message on my thread, I like it very much. As a matter of fact, it is making me smile right now, for the first time this Saturday morning.
I am going to close this post with saying: it is possible that I will later scan this message in my mind, looking for something I might have said (typed) wrong, something that may have offended you.. nothing I can think of right now, but I have no doubt that she (her voice in my brain) can easily find that something, just give her a moment..
Please do not feel any pressure of any kind to submit a post for me anytime soon. My sane voice says: SadSoul is a very, very busy (peaceful and grateful still, I hope) SadSoul.Ā Take good care of yourself in these busy, overworking, rainy times!
anita
anitaParticipantContinued:
I am feeling extremely tired, unfocused and emotionally raw, so I thought I would type whatever comes to mind:
it’s okay, I didn’t have a mother (what a mother is supposed to be), but that’s okay. I am okay. I am okay. Calm. Shh… calm that noise, that restless energy-in-motion within, that unsettling energy. Shh… it’s okay. I am okay.
The sun is bright outside, the trees and grass so green (in front of me, seen through the open window). Life as usual, it was always there no matter how dead I felt. Ah, life, a magnificent thing, life seeking life. I am seeking life. I let go of my past, I let it go. I no longer identify with my past. I now identify with life, everything’s life, everyone’s life, just.. Life.
anita
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