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anitaParticipantDear SadSoul:
“Gotta stop paying them, they’re paid, but someone send my heart the memo!“- memo Sent, sent to SadSoul!
“I of you too. Miss turquoise wearing pony tail girl”– I ran out of turquoise clothing (sad turquoise face emoji)
“…hearing birds means life: they are alive, I am alive” Love this, absolutely love love love this“- believe me when I say that I love, love, love that you lovethis!
“Thanks no thanks“- after I sent you the “gift”, I thought to myself (correctly): it’s not a gift when it’s something you don’t want for yourself!
“Horrified!”- an appropriate reaction, you do understand!
“This sounds awesome. You reminded me my grass is a jungle. I best try to get to it this weekend“- better not let it grow too tall.
“I’m so tired! In a good way, except I’m not achieving anything that needs my attention, I’m so exhausted… I have nothing interesting to add to your day, just been working long hours, and that’s about it. Thank you for your messages. You give me friendship I’m lacking in real life. I think I might close my eyes and sleep now“- you add to my every day, so thank you, and you are welcome! I hope you rested since this message you sent me over 12 hours ago!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Arie:
When an original poster is angry with someone in their in-real- life, I feel, that it would be easier and safer for me, as a responder, to side with the OP because the person they are angry with is not present on the forum (no risk of confrontation with a non-present 3rd party). On the other hand, if I reply, and I don’t side with the angry OP, I am risking a confrontation with the OP. In this reply, I will not be siding with you any more than I’ll be siding with the non-present Amy, an object of your anger. Instead, I will try to take an objective view of you and her.
I am further prefacing what is to follow with this: none of us is perfect, and neither am I. I make mistakes every day. I have faults and failures. Like others, my tendency has been to see other people’s faults and failings, and avoid looking into my own (while still feeling ashamed and guilty!) It’s easier to blame others, to focus on their negatives, than it is to look into our own negatives/ our own faults and failings. Problem is that without confronting our own negatives, we can not improve and replace those negatives with positives.
My purpose in the following is (1) to help you, not to hurt you, (2) to help myself (I will elaborate on this at the end of this long post). I know that this is a long, elaborate post, and you may not be in the mood for it. You are welcome to not read it and/ or reply:
I believe that the first time you mentioned Amy (your sister-in-law’s sister) was on March 27, 2022. In your 3rd sentence about her, you wrote: “She had asked me the previous night if it was ok if her date came and if it would bother me if he was there“- that was a positive, caring behavior on her part, showing concern for your feelings.
On the same day, you shared about a negative, uncaring, hurtful and angry behavior on Amy’s part: “Telling me… to go f*** myself… asking me if I thought she was really that stupid… She told me she didn’t have to explain anything and told me I was with her date, and for me to stop acting dumb… She has now blocked me on everything“.
Fast forward to May 21 and June 6, 2024, you shared more about Amy’s negative behavior of 2 years ago: “She proceeded to tell me I was a s*** and a boyfriend stealer and she knew I was with her so called boyfriend/date… No matter what I said, the accusations flew“.
You shared that some following the above, you and Amy reconciled, but then, at one point, you told Amy that a guy she was about to date, or maybe started to date, liked you and wanted to date you: “(he) confessed he liked me and wanted to date me…. I told Amy this“. This was a negative, uncaring thing to say to her, knowing her sensitivity. Whether you intended to hurt her, or not, it was hurtful and unnecessary to say this to her.
Amy’s response to your insensitivity on the matter was predictable: “again she accused me and told me she didn’t trust me and I steal everyone“.
“Last November (2023) she met a guy and has been with him since. Ever since she met him, she basically stopped talking to me… She would also not speak to me or any of my family members during family gatherings. Instead she would cling to her bf like someone is going to steal him from her“- reads like she indeed believes that you have it in you to hurt her (to steal her boyfriend), that she feels that you are a threat; that her motivation is to protect her relationship.
“My current husband and even my Aunt said that Amy is jealous of me and was always and will always be jealous of me. There is nothing to be jealous of.“- Amy believes that there is something to be jealous of.
“Update:… Amy walked past us and did not say one word and made her way into the kitchen with her bf who is a drunk all the time… Even her sister and their mother made a comment saying how unsociable she has become… I think its very rude and selfish of her not to say HI to me or my family or some of the guests… Amy and her sister’s dad past away earlier this year“- yes, it is rude to not say Hi, but perhaps her intent was not to be rude (just as your intent, when you told her that her intended date liked you, was not your intent to hurt her..?) Maybe she was suffering, or numb, being in her own world, depressed, because her father died a few months ago, and because her boyfriend has a serious drinking problem.
“Amy is the type who loves to be in the center of attention. If it is not about her, then she doesn’t care about anyone. She is also very dramatic… rude and selfish of her… How childish and petty…. She is always drama, drama, drama. If it’s not about her, she doesn’t care…. she needs to grow up!.. childish and petty“- there is a lack of empathy for Amy, and lots of negative judgment of her.
You may replace some of your negative judgment of Amy’s insecurity and jealousy, by remembering your own insecurity and jealousy in your relationship with your husband, from your Dec 7, 2022- June 4, 2023 posts. (I am adding the boldface feature to show 1- your own insecurity and jealousy in your own words, and 2- how similar- although not identical, of course- you and Amy are!):
“We set a wedding dinner… The day of our dinner , we had to go to the airport to pick up a friend of his. He had failed to tell me that his friend was a she… She… Then I turned to her and right in front of his friends outside I said ‘Who do you think you are…Who’s wedding dinner is this? Yours or mine sweetheart? I suggest you go inside and sit and mind your own business and let me and my husband handle everything. NOT YOU!”’… I was fuming… My face was beat red... She puts her hand on my shoulder and said she and my husband are just friends and for me not to be jealous. I said oh no I’m not jealous. I just protect what is mine and for her to take her hand off my shoulder… I deleted and blocked her from everything , including every social media and emails…
“So, few months passed. I had access to his phone. I went in one night while he was asleep and deleted all these old texts from women before me and blocked all of them and deleted their numbers...Then I found some texts on his apple watch in his language. I can’t tell if the number is female or male. I tried to translate… Am I being over dramatic ?… I’ve been so hurt and traumatized in the past from men ghosting me, cheating on me, etc. and its affecting me even now that I’m married” (Dec 7, 2022)
“I am having major trust issues… I saw his new passcode when he was getting into his phone. I know the code to his Apple Watch. And I go into that daily while he’s sleeping… The other morning I came across a number I didn’t recognize on his watch. I screen shot it with my phone along with the texts that were in Turkish… I translated every thing via google translate… I confronted my husband last week about who’s numbers are those etc. he told me he is not cheating… So, this morning I went on his watch again . On his fb messenger I found a msg from December. He msg some girl over his country ‘Hi’… While he was sleeping I went into his phone and deleted her and blocked her from messenger and Facebook…
“I want to stop spying, but when I get a gut feeling I go with it. I told him in the beginning not to do anything that would be suspicious… I no longer spy on his phone much. Sometimes I will get into it and look around. I did, however, find a girl on his Instagram that sent him a message asking him if he was single… I deleted and blocked her from his account… I found no secret conversations anywhere in his phone. I did all this while he was asleep. I really need to stop looking in his phone…. I always have that fear in the back of my mind that he will leave like he did before without notice. That will always stay in my mind….I guess, I just need to relax and stop worrying. (Dec 10, 2022- June 4, 2023).
Notice: * the words of your husband’s friend, at or close to the wedding dinner event (that there’re nothing to be jealous about, that you shouldn’t be jealous of her), had the same effect on you, as your words (same words) had on Amy: none. Both of you have been having major trust issues, both jealous, both similarly affected by past negative relationships with men.
* The motivation underneath your anger and jealous was to protect your relationship (“I just protect what is mine“), seeing other women as threats to your relationship: same motivation as Amy’s.
* You point your finger at Amy for being very dramatic (“ She is also very dramatic…. She is always drama, drama, drama“) while suspecting that about yourself (“Am I being overdramatic?“)
* You point your finger at Amy for being rude, selfish, childish, petty.. while you have been these things too, feeling that you are justified being these things, but Amy is not.
* You “get a gut feeling and go with it“, and so did Amy when she went off on you.
I will end this post with my purpose to help myself in typing all of this (in addition to my purpose to be of some help to you):
I have a lifetime tendency and habit to be judgmental of others, that is, to point my finger at others’ faults and failures (hardly ever vocally, mostly in my thoughts), and it caused me lots of distress, while not relieving at all my own shame about my faults and failures. I am in the beginning process of ending this tendency and habit. One way for me to create this change is to use the NPARR strategy (a strategy I used in other contexts, not in this one): Notice when I have a negative, accusatory thought about another person; notice when I am pointing my finger at their imperfection, fault, or failure, then Pause.
Next Address the situation: do I/ did I also behave in the way this other person behaved just now, is there an empathetic way for me to re-interpret his/ her behavior, given that I, myself, behaved similarly? Also: is there a situational problem here that requires me to say/ do something? Or not? Next, Respond: Say or do something, or not. Lastly, Redirect my focus to behaving myself in ways I wish others behaved.
anita
anitaParticipantContinued:
Loyalty to an enemy is misguided loyalty. Therefore, loyalty to my mother is, and has been misguided loyalty. (1) I need no longer suffer (shame, guilt, that deep, disturbing self-doubt, confusion, distress) out of loyalty to her. (2) I need no longer hate people she taught me to hate (everyone, sooner or later).
The above 2 things are the legacy my mother-enemy left in my life. I am rejecting her legacy, undoing my loyalty to her.
-To be continued-
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
I see. I am guessing that when you said one more week of this, you meant that you will be staying at your mother’s for the rest of the visit while your husband stays with his parents. I hope you have a special time with your mother.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lisa:
Your first post here was on May 1, 2017, and I replied to you on the same day. (We were both a whole 7 years younger!) I will start this post with quotes from my replies to you over the 26 pages of your thread, from May, 2017 – Jan 2019 (with minor grammatical editing; the boldfaced and are your words):
“‘Alone‘- the title of your thread, not connected- the theme of your childhood and life… We are born to be social, to connect. We only survive without. To live, to truly live is to connect… As a young child and throughout your life in your childhood home (until your mid twenties)… Bad things happened to you and you didn’t understand why they were happening. It felt like people hated you, and you didn’t know what you did to bring it about…
“You did not experience love, being valued… You experienced being tolerated, at best, for what you do for others. Being unloved, being shown no empathy, you were taught to survive, not to thrive (‘I have learned nothing more than to just survive.’). There was no empathy for you in your childhood home, no one cared to notice your distress; no one cared to find out your thoughts and feelings and help you. You were Alone… As a result, your anxiety fired up and expressed itself in the symptoms of ADHD, OCD, bed wetting, over-eating, depression and dysfunction…
“You feel that men treat you as worthless or as less worthy than other women. You are angry at men for that and jealous at women who are ‘held in higher regard’… that Men are selfish, they only love themselves. They place women into two categories: The Worthy (‘the worthies‘) and the Unworthy (‘the unworthies‘)… They show concern and take care of women in the Worthy category, but show no concern and no caring to women in the Unworthy category. Men expect women in the Unworthy category to never challenge them… Unlike other women in the Unworthy category, you speak your mind, you challenge men, and you challenge women in the Worthy category. For that you are punished by the men, eternally dismissed, and attacked by the women in the Worthy category…
“If you want a loving relationship with a man, that attitude needs to change… The changing of attitude regarding men that I am suggesting to you is to view men as individuals and evaluate a man as an individual. If you are not able or willing to evaluate a man as an individual, then you are not ready to consider a loving relationship with a man, dating, that is…
“Your plan includes the one step at a time concept, basic needs first, the need to be and feel physically healthy first, before meeting a man for the relationship you need. Losing pounds is already giving you tangible results which encourage you to proceed with the plan. Sleeping better is most important. Looking for better employment and medical insurance, very important, practical… Excellent work on your part, I say. Focus on progress, not perfection. Progress is not a linear process where there is nothing but progress. Within true progress there are times of distress and deterioration of functioning, but these are temporary. Overall, true progress is a line going up with many tiny zigzag lines going down… You endure, resume and return to the upward movement of progress.
“I like your ending of your last post, ‘Patience‘- key word. Patience. And remember the other word that starts with P: Perfection- no such thing as perfection. Be patient with your human imperfection… Be gentle and Patient with yourself, and don’t forget the reality of imperfection inherent to human function and performance…
“You started this valuable thread with: ‘I was an outgoing kid with an open heart… I was bullied on school grounds… I was often called a baby or sissy for not standing up to kids that bullied me but my thoughts often went to wondering why they wanted to bully me?‘ Your thread is a testimony to how damaging bullying is, how important it is that people in the position of parents, teachers, school employees will do everything in their power to interrupt bullying and prevent it… You wondered, as a child, why they wanted to bully you… you came up with a part answer:… an entity of sort intended and still intends to inflict pain on you… to punish you. In its intent to hurt you, it repeatedly, through the decades of your life, brings about events, coordinates those events, making them happen in such a way so that they result in you getting hurt. This entity’s aim is to hurt you…
“Regarding your strong emotions: ‘I am feeling a tremendous amount of guilt… I have to be calm… I feel the only way I can deal with all of this is to be numb… all I can do is work and feel anxious all the time…I am crying now of course. Why do I have to be upset all the time?‘- This is my answer to your question: because you are Alone (title of your thread). In the very beginning of your life and through the years of your childhood, you were very much alone. When a child is alone, in her room, door shut from the inside, while there were fights in the home, a child is scared. When there is no one to hug you, to silent that fear, to calm you, the fear goes haywire… If I could go back in time, into your world, I would give little Lisa a hug so big and warm, that it would melt that fear away…
“I think I understand now, after all of our communication.. and miscommunication of the last nine months on this thread something I didn’t understand before. I think that the Key Sentence of all that you shared is that you cannot tolerate an ounce of criticism from anyone. What I understand today is that criticism to you includes when any person expresses any difference from what you stated to be true to you. You believe, for one, that all men hate you and hurt you, and that the women who tried to help you, then turned against you and supported the men who hate you. If I suggest differently, I think you take it as criticism and you automatically view me as one of those women who are either hurting you or trying to help you, but then support a man who hates you…
“According to what you believe is true, you are a good, intelligent, creative, hard working woman barely surviving a hostile world where all people hate and hurt you or about to do so every time you try to improve your life, and every time you assert yourself. A world where people expect you to submit to their alleged superiority and abuse… In this world, as you view it, you are truly Alone. I believe that there is no way to live in such a world other than to suffer a whole lot. And that has been your experience so far, as you shared: barely surviving and suffering a lot… hurt and angry, in physical pain from overworking, exhausted, very, very sad, that is why you cry a lot. Every time you get motivated, you soon get frustrated. You feel very much alone, throughout life, most of the time. You’ve been telling here how you feel for many months. I hear you. I hear you loud and clear…
“You are a fascinating woman, never met or communicated with anyone like you. It takes a lot of time and effort for me to understand you, a process that is still ongoing… Seems like this thread is coming to an end: May 1, 2017- January 1, 2019, eight months. Thank you for starting this thread and I am looking forward to your second thread. A new year, a new beginning”.
Following that post, you started your 2nd thread Choosing Love on Jan 15, 2019. It lasted 11 pages until April 25, 2024.
Lisa, June 5, 2024 (in Alone): “I want to bring this topic back up because it is more appropriate for me and I was right the first time. I have never felt more rejected as a person, put down or alone in my life than I do right now. Love is an illusion. The wish for money is disguised as love. The need for friendship is disguised as love. Marriage is for money and status and security, not love. Love is an illusion and so are get togethers in the name of ‘peace and love.’ Real Love is rare and does not harm another.”
Today, June 6, 2024, I ask you, Lisa: please tell me more about Real Love..?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith: no wonder you’re exhausted. How long into the night are you working? (I thought this was vacation time for you, not work time!) And what is everyone else doing while you are working.. sleeping?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith: a hard worker! How many hours of sleep do you get???
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
You are welcome, and good to read that you are feeling better! No wonder you are exhausted: being around a lot of people who talk a lot is exhausting, plus it’s after 10 pm, late.
anita
anitaParticipantDear SadSoul:
“We are the champions, my friend – singing to the song. I love it, dear fellow deer“- we paid our dues, time after time, we’ve done our sentence, but committed no crime, but we are the champions, my friend, and we’ll keep on fighting till the end!
“I love turquoise too but don’t wear it. Favourites are shady foresty colours, soft browns, velvety greens“- I am building a visual of you, slowly.
“my eyes are a window to my black soul… only black in little crumbs here and there, like when I occasionally think about writing something on my exe’s car (with a screw driver so etched in the metal) along the lines of: he only lasts 10 seconds“- if you do that, it’d be only seconds before he arranges to have his etched car towed to the nearest junkyard to be dismantled ASAP. (dismantled car emoji).
“No panics, I didn’t worry about it, neither should you“- thank you, it is my aim to not get my panties up in a bunch over most things.
“I’m listening to birds too. The excitable blah blah chatter ones, the trades people ones with lower voices talking about having a beer, the laughy ones gossiping over a cup of tea“- I can hear them right now. To me, hearing birds means life: they are alive, I am alive.
“I love the feeling of hot water on itchiness that goes so deep it feels like it’s on your bones“- I am sending you all my itchiness as a gift.
“Now reply with your wonderful day’s news so I have something delicious to feast my eyes on!!“- news this morning: didn’t have creamer for my coffee, so been drinking it black, it only happened twice in my life, this is the 2nd. Yesterday late afternoon: I mowed grass over a large area with ups and downs, on top of a tiny electrical mower that felt like an extension of my body, it was FUN!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
“We reached India…his grandmother is commenting about the way I was dressed… As usual my husband is a man child… I don’t like the gender bias… I can’t deal with a man who is always worried about what his parents think“-
pew researching. org/ how indians view gender roles in family and society (March 2022): “About nine-in-ten Indians agree with the notion that a wife must always obey her husband… even Indians who have completed college sometimes do overwhelmingly endorse traditional views on gender-related issues. For instance, large majorities among those with a college degree (80%) and those with less education (88%) agree with the notion that wives must always obey their husbands… Across a variety of measures, Indian men are more likely than women – but only slightly – to take a traditional view of gender roles. For instance, 82% of men say that when there are few jobs, men should have more rights to jobs, compared with 77% of women who share this perspective”.
“Families tend to place higher value on sons rather than daughters – a custom broadly referred to as ‘son preference.’ Adult sons traditionally live with their parents… daughters often live with their husbands’ parents and fulfill obligations toward their in-laws… Indians tend to be more conservative than people in most other countries surveyed when it comes to gender dynamics in the home and in the economy”.
I am adding: according to the survey, there are big differences between regions: for example, 61% of the surveyed people in Telangana (a southern state) say that sons should be the primary caretakers of aging parents vs 37% in Jharkhand (Hindi Belt) and 11% in Meghalay (a north east India).
On a positive note for a feminist like you, Zenith (from the same source): “In recent years, Indian society has paid increased attention to improving the status of daughters – the government’s Beti Bachao, Beti Padhao (‘Save the girl child, Educate the girl child’) program, for example, seeks to prevent sex-selective practices during pregnancy and to ensure educational opportunities for girls by conducting public awareness media campaigns, among other policies”.
I hope that you are feeling better this Thursday late evening (8 pm in India).
anita
anitaParticipantDear SadSoul:
Hilarious comment on the other thread. I’ll reply further in about 12-14 hours from now.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lisa:
Welcome back to your May 1, 2017 thread! Please post here again anytime. I will reply to the two posts you submitted Thursday morning.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Zenith:
I thought about you earlier today and am happy you posted to vent.. I missed you venting!
Good thing you reached India safely, not a good thing that you didn’t get to decorate your way for your kid’s birthday. It’s traditional, patriarchal society, as you know, there’s a strict hierarchy in the family (I know you hate it).
“On top of that his grandmother is commenting about the way I was dressed. I wore an Indian wear, but she wanted me to wear a saree which I don’t like. I said no. Then she insisted to wear a scarf to cover my breast. I was dressed modestly with a full length top“- I know you hate that!
“I kept quiet because talking back to elders is wrong in my in laws’ house… My husband was sitting without even wearing a shirt but nobody tells him anything. I don’t like the gender bias“- I understand how difficult it is for you to not speak up, to submit to the ways of elders, and to not be treated equal to a man. You are a true feminist, Zenith!
“I am glad that we are in USA where I have the freedom to wear what I want to, be the way in want to. If I would have stayed in India my marriage would have definitely resulted in divorce. I can’t deal with a man who is always worried about what his parents think.“- good thing indeed that you live in the U.S., and soon enough you’ll be back here. Try to have peace of mind for the rest of the visit. I want to write more Thursday morning (my time, about 12 hours from now). You are welcome to post again before I am back to your thread.
anita
anitaParticipantContinued:
It’s still strange, but Refreshing and Exhilarating! Just now, as I capitalized refreshing and exhilarating, I “heard” her voice criticizing me for capitalizing the two words, calling me out on it: what’s wrong with you? And then, of course, proceeding to tell me: I’ll tell you what’s wrong with you: you.. you.. YOU.. ! And how dare you…!
I “heard” potential readers saying this to me, by proxy of her.
This (there’s something terribly wrong/ inferior, shameful about YOU!) is what I heard her say every day of my life: 365 (days per year), times 50+ (years), times 10+ times per day.. that’s 17,25o+ times so far. No wonder I keep “hearing” her. It’s the habit of my mind to hear and re-hear her, here, there, and everywhere.
Thanks Mom!
Oopsie, I said Mom, with a capital letter (I don’t “hear” her complaining about that!)
My mother was big on being M and me, being small, weak, submissive to her, a slave to her rage.
I can feel my rage at being subdued, diminished, terribly, oh so terribly disrespected, subjected to abuse, not because I deserved it, but because she felt like it.
I remember seeing her face, as she was watching the pain on my face: her smile, I remember it so vividly, so clearly. That was the only way I pleased her: giving her that pleasure of being on Top, the one in Power.
She had no other use for me.
The mix of loving her and wanting to give her more of what she got out of me, and.. my need to get out of the hole she dug for me: to BE. That mix was excruciating.
Her dark, dark eyes.. they were dark brown, but not as dark as I remember them to be. It’s her dark heart that I saw in her eyes, dark for me.
– To be continued-
anita
June 5, 2024 at 11:43 am in reply to: growing up – becoming adul / procrastination – in connection to childhood trauma #433512anitaParticipantDear Robi:
I am fine, thank you, and.. you should be in Warsaw by now (I checked: 3 hrs. and 20 minutes flight from Alicante, Spain to Warsaw, Poland).
“I just know I’m doing what I think its the right thing to do. My girlfriend has been here for a week, we talked a lot about things… I decided to go to Warsaw and try to find work… I’ve already applied to some jobs there and had an interview“- good communication, direction and planning!
“Almost 2 weeks ago during a phone call with my parents… Right away they bombarded me with disapproval… they kept repeating it should be my girlfriend… is probably trying to manipulate me into going back there, so she doesn’t have to leave“- they are in your business, where they shouldn’t be. You are an adult (who is adulting), capable of evaluating your girlfriend better than they can. And I trust your evaluation of your girlfriend way more than I trust theirs because of all that you shared about your girlfriend, and because of what you shared about your parents’ (particularly your mother’s) compromised mental health.
“A few days later my dad wrote to me – he said he’s been thinking of me and he supports me, that everything will fall into place and I should stay positive… he said that when he said he supports me he meant that he supports me staying in Spain and not to go back to Warsaw… not a work about me possibly going to Romania for a bit – I thought they might be happy to see me“- time to fully adult, to take the steps needed to adult, to no longer be your parents’ child. Together with your girlfriend, 2 adults, find a way, or ways. It won’t be easy, but endure and persist, one step at a time, allowing regressions and recoveries, keep moving forward.
And please let me know how you are doing!
anita
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AuthorPosts
Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine. 