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anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
I read only the beginning of your recent post, the part about you doing very badly, but I am in a hurry so I will not be able to read the rest and reply before Mon morning (in abut 18 hours from now). Please use what is called a healthy distraction so to improve how you feel: anything from a hot bath to a long walk outside, listening to comforting music, etc. I will be back to you in the morning.
anita
September 10, 2023 at 11:29 am in reply to: Boyfriend quit job and is borrowing from me.. I feel so anxious #421966anitaParticipantDear Neha:
I think that you’ve been a very good girlfriend for a long time, but for at least a few months he hasn’t been a good boyfriend to you because either he doesn’t notice how much suffering you’ve been going through since he quit his job, or he knows.. and doesn’t take it seriously enough to do something about it.
I think that you should not loan/ give him any more money. Think about the possibility of asking him to take 6,000 out of his credit card account, or accounts, and give that money back to you.
So, there are two items I am pointing to: (1) his lack of awareness/ caring about your emotional suffering for so long (2) the money topic.
(I will be back to the computer in about 8- 18 hours from now)
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
You are welcome. “Nothing is more irritating than people analysing you during a confrontation“- I agree. I made the mistake of offering unwanted analyses to people many times in the past. I agree with (and impressed by) your analysis of him and the situation.
“Childhood trauma is a powerful thing. I suppose itās a funny coincidence that I wrote my first topic here at 25, just the age he is now…Ā I hope he will be able to find the way in the month or years to come“- this is a very compassionate attitude, on your part.
“He is capable of reflection and growth… I wonder if soon they will start arguing again“- they probably will argue again: he is capable of reflection and growth, and his boyfriend may be capable of it too, but not together, not when the relationship itself (without attending couple therapy and working hard on it) is keeping both of them stuck in sickness.
“We are still having very robotic chats up to now. A ‘good morning’… I wonder if that will last, or we will drift away, or we will stay talking…“- you will surely know the answers in a year from now, maybe sooner. Can’t predict the future, as you know.
“In a way I feel better carrying on with my daily routine, seeing heās sent a message causes almost a dreadā¦ should I reply? how to reply?… Itās still early days, only a week since the end of the ‘start of a love story’… I donāt know whether to make more effort to talk, to ask him things, or to hold back… If I want to share something with him, share it“- my thoughts: (1) Keep in mind that you have the option of No Contact, if that would be better for your mental health. (2) Reads like he needs space, so for as long as you choose to be in contact with him during this time, if I was you, I wouldn’t ask him any questions other than the general how-are-you? and surface questions, and not many of those. I wouldn’t share much with him either, unless he asks and then, I’d keep it short.
“It’s interesting what you said about the UK Flag. In our last call, which was going to be brief because ‘Iām studying for exams and don’t have much time’ ā he said, and yet it ended up being 3 hours ā I asked him about it. Didnāt his boyfriend comment on it? (Heās never been to the UK, he had one for Brazil and Argentina). He said ‘he did, but I pretended not to hear them’ ā in the video call, itās still up on his wall. The picture of him and his boyfriend is back, and the ring we used is in his box, but the flag I bought is still there. Perhaps it means nothing, he just wants the collection. Perhaps not.“-
– (1) I like reading your reasonable, objective thinking: seeing the bigger picture/ different possibilities, not just a corner of the picture, that which fits wishful thinking. (2) In the opening of your recent post, you wrote: “at least someone somewhere sees it with more nuance than ‘he used you and you were played’“: if he was playing you, if there was deceit on his part (like it was suggested to you) then he would have removed the picture of him and his boyfriend from sight during the video call…? Reading and re-reading your story, I didn’t notice any evidence of deceit/ you being played.
“I feel a bit hurt remembering the last call, at one point he said āit felt good, and in the moment I had to do what felt goodā ā perhaps not those words exactly, but words to that effect. It gives me an anxiety“- I am lost at this moment reading this. What was he referring to by “it”?
(I will soon be away from the computer and back in about 8- 24 hours from now).
anita
anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
You are very welcome and thank you for your empathy and kindness!
“I was born and am still poverty level, he was born upper middle class… Ā I have had this feeling since I was old enough to start seeing people around me having more than me. It follows me everywhere and at 31, almost 32 soonā¦ I am scared I cannot heal from this. I donāt know what I can do to brush off these feelings… I thought that being with a man who finally understands and acknowledges privilege and doesnāt throw up the fact that Iām ‘not doing enough to better myself’ and shaming my family for being poor was a great sign he was a safe partner. I hate I lost that.“-
– this is what I understand: very early in your life, you observed that people shamed your parents for being poor/ financially disadvantaged (and for using drugs, I assume: “I grew up in a drug filled homeā), throwing it up to their faces (hitting your face as well) that they were not doing enough to better themselves. You observed your parents hurt and ashamed (A child is very empathetic to her parents, taking on their feelings as her own, or feeling what she imagines that they are feeling).Ā Perhaps you felt ashamed of them yourself, while also loving them very much.
The societal judgment against your parents was a judgment against the young girl that you were because a young child does not distinguish between herself and her parents: she didn’t yet go through the so called separation-individuation development stage of childhood. Perhaps you were personally shamed as well for being poor, by school peers and such.
When a girl grows up without enough safety and love, she never separates from her parents emotionally, still feeling their feelings, or what she imagines that they feel, still evaluating life according to their thoughts and feelings, not yet re-evaluating life according to her own thoughts, not enough in any case (which if she did, she may think the same, similar or very differently from her parents’).
Every time she sees other people having more money and things bought with money, she feels that shame.
“His parents are both very successful and retired psychologists with PhDs… this relationship made me feel seen and special… there is jealousy there for myself and my parents that we havenāt gotten to travel or have the opportunities his family has had… I thought that being with a man who finally understands and acknowledges privilege and doesnāt throw up the fact that Iām ‘not doing enough to better myself’ and shaming my family for being poor was a great sign he was a safe partner. I hate I lost that”-
– with this man, you felt, at times, safe from societal judgment. In other words, with this man you felt temporarily free from shame, and with the breakup, you lost that temporary relief and the hope that you can live shame-free. With this man, perhaps you felt that it is possible for you to finally belong to the financially/ educationally privileged world into which you always wanted to belong. This is what the breakup means to you.. is it?
“I did not feel special to my parents, only in moments here and there“- a girl needs to feel special. She needs to feel that her parents (rich or poor) think that she is special: she needs to feel that she is making her parents’ lives better, that she brings a smile to their faces, at least once a day.
When she feels un-special, she looks for the fault within herself and she blames herself: “The trust issues I brought into this relationship that inevitably might have partially ruined it for him“, “I reached out to him to apologize for all of the times my past trauma triggered me and I projected insecurities onto him…Ā I sabotaged.. “). This self-blame adds much pain to the breakup, making it feel much worse than if you didn’t blame yourself so much.
Of course you made mistakes, everyone makes mistakes in relationships, every single person, but reading and re-reading your story, I figure that even if you were perfect (which would be impossible), it wouldn’t have been enough for a man who suffers from (and was diagnosed with) depression and ADHD, a man who at 31 did not have a single long-term relationship with a woman, a man who spends his time not in attending psychotherapy and immersing himself in mental/ emotional healing, but instead, he spends his time in pornography and sexual fantasies.. to have his first long-term relationship.
“He has too many amazing experiences“- no experience is as amazing as feeling right about oneself, feeling good enough (a healthy self-esteem), not even close.
“it being Saturday, my mind is racing that heās already numbing himself with someone else“- no one numbs themselves because they have an amazing life.
“with someone like me who accepted him and wanted to love him, he didnāt believe that about himself, so he lost interest and maybe even admiration and respect for me“- I agree that this is a very likely possibility. When a child is unloved/ not appreciated by a parent, as an adult, he often looks for a romantic partner who also does not appreciate him. The (very common) compulsion is about changing an unappreciative parent into an appreciating parent by proxy of the romantic partner.
“I am absolutely stuck and drowning in my sorrows right now. Iāve cried all day… I will never recover from this. It makes me physically ill to have been played this hard“- I feel sad that you are suffering. And I figure that much of your suffering about this breakup and otherwise-Ā will be gone if you re-evaluated your story, his story, and eliminated assumptions and core beliefs that are simply not true. I will be glad to share with you, if and when you are willing, how I did such re-evaluation and how it changed how I feel.
You submitted the two posts above about 18 hours ago. How are you feeling now???
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
I too thought it was a very good point… (smile). I’ll be back to the computer Sun morning (in about 9 hours from now)
anita
anitaParticipantDear Stacy:
You are welcome and I am sorry that you are not doing well at all.
“When I am this down, literally nothing helps me“- I wish there was something I- a stranger on the internet- could say to make you feel better.
Reading your posts today, I can see how much you are suffering these days, feeling unseen and un- special, a blip on his map, thinking and overthinking about all your imagined- or real-Ā mistakes in the relationship, feeling guilty for the breakup, feeling that you are not good enough for him.
“What I was referring to about the ‘blip on the map’ thing with him in all those countries and sexual and social explorations, I just feel really inexperienced and not good enough for him… He has too many amazing experiences and has too many people that matter to him for him to worry about losing me, he keeps himself constantly distracted and onto the next thing. I truly feel like a blip on his map! Not only that, but there is jealousy there for myself and my parents that we havenāt gotten to travel or have the opportunities his family has had. And I get that part of me is ENTIRELY projecting and has nothing to do with him.“-
–Ā I too experienced a deep, painful low self-esteem and lots of guilt, and I suffered for so long. I felt guilty and responsible for allĀ bad things happening in my life. I felt that life is passing me by, and that other people are having so much fun while I was stuck in misery. Growing up, my mother worked cleaning the offices and homes of the rich, and she complained about her hands bleeding from the detergents she used cleaning their toilets and such, and her whole body hurting, and how unlucky she was working for those lucky people. I was so very upset that she was not one of the lucky, rich people she worked for. I wanted to make her rich so that she can finally be on the lucky side of life (I tried hard, and I failed).
It is only recently that my self-esteem significantly improved.. what a slow process this has been. And I know that once you feel better about yourself (I hope that it happens quicker than it happened for me), once your unearned guilt is resolved (once you figure out what you are truly responsible for and what you are not responsible for), you will feel so much better, breakup or not.
I used to imagine that the lucky people (rich people able to travel the world and live in luxury) were happy go-lucky people, as the saying goes. But when my self-esteem significantly improved, once I was no longer tortured by guilt and self-doubt, I found out (to my surprise!) that those lucky people were not happy-go-lucky at all, and that every person experiences the pain I thought belonged only to me/ my mother.
From what you shared about him, he is not a happy-go-lucky person, it’s just that he is able to easily (compared to you) distract himself from what’s troubling him, while you get stuck in what’s troubling you, kind of sinking in it… ?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
“I donāt know how to read this all, I think. I hope it was, as you said Anita, a sort of ‘opening chapter’ snuffed out by reality, maybe even the start of a love story unfortunately not possible because of the circumstances…Ā Yet, when I tell some people about it, they say he just used me and it was all a fraud, which lingers in my mind and causes a lot of doubt and pain. I donāt see it like that at all. But I greatly fear I am very grossly mistaken in my interpretation of it all“-
-I re-read your original post and following posts, and from what you shared,Ā I too don’t see it like that at all, and it is not my interpretation of it all either.Ā I read nothing to indicate that he deceitfully used you and that any of it was a fraud on his part (or on yours).
“He mentions the relationship with his boyfriend is plagued by arguments, fights and a lack of trust… We spend a lot of time together…Ā and talk about everything. His family history, his physically abusive father who beat him everyday“-
– it takes only a few seconds to say something like “my father physically abused me and beat me everyday”, but this piece of information about his childhood, aka his Formative Years, is very significant: it is a very significant part of who he has become/who he was formed into. Has he stayed with his argumentative, combative boyfriend because his boyfriend is like his father, and he is trying to resolve that abuse by proxy of his boyfriend.. (in addition to financial considerations)? I don’t know.
You are very different from his argumentative, combative and forceful boyfriend. You were peaceful, shy (“I was shy around him“), accepting and Polite (“Later on he said… I was being ‘Polite’ and not forcing anything“)
“He is adamant that he will end it with his boyfriend and be mine…I call him, he says he is confused and doesnāt know why he canāt break up with his boyfriend, if it is guilt, pity. He says loving me is easy but he doesnāt know how he feels about his boyfriend. He says cries about at night in the shower, the only time he is alone without his boyfriend watching him“-
– What if he really meant that he will end the relationship with his boyfriend.. I tend to believe that he meant it truly. But then, he couldn’t because the boy in him is still trying to make his father- by proxy of his boyfriend- love him and stop beating him.
It is a common compulsion in adult-children who were abused as children by a parent, to resolve childhood abuse in adulthood by proxy of a romantic partner who is similar to the abusive parent. (I was abused by my mother and I felt a lot of guilt and pity, the words he used. She hit me and shamed me terribly, yet I felt pity for her and I felt that I deserved her treatment and that it is me who should change my behavior, so that she will finally love me).
“I tell him he can only love me or him. He calls back the next day and says he canāt do it, and shouldnāt have said all of that if he wasnāt prepared to finally break up“- he sounds like a conscientious person, feeling guilt and regret for promising what he wasn’t able to deliver.
“‘My relationship was deeper than I thought’ he says. ‘The end of a chapter but our book is still open, life is a pandoras boxā. I donāt know what that means“- perhaps his relationship with his boyfriend is deeper than he thinks, that it is, like I suggested above, a re-enactment of his childhood experience aimed at resolving it. You, on the other hand, are too dissimilar to his father to provide such (futile) opportunity for him.
“In October 2022, he sends me a message, heās moving to Argentina, without his boyfriend, to study medicine…Ā He moves to Argentina in January 2023. We talk more and more frequently“- it makes sense that away from his boyfriend (and the compulsion to resolve his childhood trauma), he became more available to have a healthy romantic relationship, a relationship with you.
“He says when he graduates he wants to move to England etc… One night he says ‘I think I love you… He was learning English phrases by himself, watching things in English, trying to learn them. Even with the visit he was going to make here he said ādo you think your parents will like me?ā and was asking about what my family liked so he would get on well with them while he was here and I was at work. We named our children, created a joint surname‘”- reads sincere to me.
“Towards the end of the trip however, I remain besotted and he buys a ring for me (not for marriage, but as commitment, something they do in Brazil). The one his boyfriend bought him has been left in a jewelry box since Iāve gotten there. The picture of them together is put in the cupboard, replaced by the UK flag he asked me to buy“-
– here is a way to think about it: the ring that his boyfriend bought him (and the picture of them together) represent being imprisoned in his childhood trauma, while the ring he bought for you (and the UK flag) represent freedom from his childhood trauma and moving on to a healthy, love relationship.
“Right up until his boyfriend visited he was so warm and constantly wanting to talk, sending me things, either love messages or things related to our mutual interests. Even at the end of the first week of his boyfriends visit, he was still saying itās all part of the effort heās putting in for ‘us, our future, our children, our lives together’.“- it took one week of visiting with his boyfriend to be sucked back into the compulsion I mentioned above.
“He accepted heād maybe been a bit careless with my feelings. For me that was a solid foundation of a relationship…I still am amazed at the commitment and dedication someone managed to stir up in me!“- your commitment and dedication was based on a true solid beginning of a love story, as I now see it, or guess that it was, a foundation that cracked a week into his boyfriend’s visit because of that common compulsion of abused adult-children to repeat and resolveĀ childhood trauma.
“Yeah, the reality of the situation, it seems, dawned on him too. He had to come to terms with the fact he was in a relationship, but also completely dependent on that relationship to pursue his dream course“- you are referring here to his dream of becoming a medical doctor. I am thinking about a different kind of dream, that which brings a smile to my face as I am typing right this moment: the dream to change an unloving parent into a loving parent.
“Their relationship is toxic but I suppose he keeps holding out hope that they will somehow resolve all their issues“- yes, and youĀ know what issues I am thinking about, which I repeatedly mentioned above.
“I really donāt see them having a future either… Iām not sensing a strong, stable relationship with a bright future“- I agree, based on all that you shared and my understanding of what you shared.
“In our final call, heād said with me heād never felt such ‘freedom’ to express himself and be himself… I think the worst bit is not knowing what it was for him. We can only guess of course as no one is a mind reader“- he’d never felt such freedom to.. temporarily be free of that compulsion, seems to me. And of course, I am not sure and I am not a mind reader. Yet that compulsion I mentioned is so very common that it doesn’t take mind-reading to appreciate how humanly common it is.
“I worry about the future. Is there any point in talking to him at all? I get anxious when he is brief in conversations. Not cold necessarily, but merely not talking as much as he used to with me. Again, I know why, but I donāt know if I can handle it… Itās hard to adjust to all those plans I made now turning to dust. Working in this job Iād got for him and for ‘us’ ā Iāve started to resent it a little, as now Iām leading a life thatās not for me alone but was for me and someone else“-
– you can’t control or experience peace of mind based on what’s happening in his mind, heart and life, but you can hold on to/ rest in the fact that you are an honest, loving man who is able to love and be loved in return. Protect this honest, loving man (yourself) and treat him well.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
You are welcome. (I didn’t recommend any particular book on overcoming learned helplessness because I didn’t read any. I was thinking out loud that maybe reading such will help you).
“I find everything more difficult because I think I am less capable in life than other people. I know my mother used to/still is this way, she does not believe in herself, thinks simple tasks are too much for her, whereas other people can do it with no problem because they are.. more capable. Seems like I learned that from her. She always worries how I handle things, maybe part of her really cares and is worried but part of her probably thinks I cannot deal with some things because I am like her“-
– (1) seems like from the beginning of your life, your mother projected herself into you, seeing herself in you, and giving you the message that you are.. her, in this regard.Ā (2) A mother is like a mirror to the young child, and what she reflects to the child, is what the child believes she is. Therefore, you believed early on that you are less capable in life than other people. (3) I wonder if part of you, a part that is the very young girl in you, feels that if you become more capable, like other people, you will be betraying your mother, moving to the other people side of the world, leaving your mother all alone in the incapable side of the world, so to speak, and/ or that you will lose her love, and therefore, you will be all alone. (To a young child, Mother is Everything/ Everyone, and without her, the child is.. all alone).
“I would like to change that. I already accomplished more than she ever did and I did it without help of family or other people“- congratulations!
* I wonder about your reaction to what I wrote above (3), and I hope that you will contemplate it over time, because maybe such early thinking stands in your way of changing this core belief (of being less capable in life than other people).
“And yes I focus on negatives a lot. There are a lot of good sides in this job offer: more money, learning new things, being part of the team, doing something that I would be rewarded for just by being in this team as they are already successful. And There’s this bad side which is late hours and all I can think about it this one. Its a huge disadvantage, yes. But I catastrophize it“-
– if you refuse this job, I will not be surprised if you find yourself in the afternoons focusing on negatives (the lot of good sides in this job that you missed), overthinking it and feeling badly. This will fit the pattern of focusing on and overthinking the negatives, won’t it?
I think that before you refuse this job, if you choose to refuse it, you should plan on how to deal with the expected regret…?
I suggested that you evaluate the positives and negatives with a calm, resourceful mental attitude, and you wrote: “I am doing this, trying to be peaceful about it. I feel better today that two days ago. I will give myself another day to get familiar with this idea.“- good. We do our best thinking when calm.. and our worst when distressed, panicking and catastrophizing.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
This is the most beautiful message, I am so grateful to you for this message, not just because of how well it’s written, and becauseĀ of what you wrote about me, but because of what it tells me about you, about the beauty within you. I am having my first smile of the day this very moment. (I will be back to the computer Sat morning).
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
I read your recent first post attentively. Congratulations for the progress you have made in regard to your learned helplessness. I googled today, by the way, overcoming learned helplessness: there are books on the topic, one of which is “Understanding and Overcoming Learned Helplessness“. Maybe such will help you.
Your second post: “But my question is, Is it something you noticed and wanted to point out (which is very correct btw) or does this apply to my current situation with changing jobs?“- I believe that it very much applies to your current situation with changing jobs. When you have a core belief that you are not capable enough to deal with life, everything is more difficult, including looking for a job and accepting a job.. unless the job is absolutely perfect, with no negatives, which is never the case, is it?
I suggested that you look for another job with your preferred working hours, and you wrote: “It’s not that simple… I am a bit scared of leaving the company.. starting new again. Itās too risky for me right now, I do not have family support at least financially“-it’s never that simple because there is no such thing (that I know about) as a perfect job. So there are always negatives. Question is: which possibility has the kinds ofĀ negatives that you can successfully manage?
In your current situation, here are some possibilities: (1) stop supporting your family financially…? That will ease your stress. (2) take on the new job for a short period of time, letting the company know of your intent,Ā so to evaluate how you manage the new hours, (3) start new again, but in a wiser way..?
No doubt that no possibility is problem free, there will always be negatives. But if you evaluate the positives and negatives with a calm, resourceful mental attitude, you will do better than otherwise.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
I want to understand the story of your relationship with this guy better, so I will re-read your original post and retell your story with quotes and my personal thoughts about your story (it helps me process information when I do that): back in 2018, five years ago, in Brazil, in the duration of two days, this guy caught your eye. You were attracted to him. “He was deeply into history, old things, old music, and showed me all his old books with great enthusiasm…Ā I was shy around him“- he was expressive, extroverted perhaps, enthusiastic; you were introverted, shy. Extroversion/ emotional expressiveness can be very attractive to the introverted/ emotionally suppressive.
Away from Brazil, back in England, for 3 years “I had never stopped having a bit of a thing for him, always a flutter in the chest when he liked a post of mine“.
Back to Brazil in 2022, you met him a second time on a Thursday night, just the two of you by the beach: “I, in a way, fall for him again, with no breath, nervous and anxious in his presence“. The two of you took off all your clothes and walked into the water, “skinny dipping in the moonlight!” (this description is made for a movie). You met his boyfriend the next day, and the visit ended on Sunday.
You keep in touch with him long-distance, having “‘teas’ together, a nice little video call talking about things… He mentions the relationship with his boyfriend is plagued by arguments, fights and a lack of trust… I sympathize a little, my relationship with another guy, though not as committed, is also a little topsy-turvy“. He flirts with you long-distance, and you booked a trip to Brazil to see him, in-person- a 3rd time.
The 3rd visit takes place inĀ May 2023: “We make out a bit on the first night and I feel great to finally kiss him and feel his body after so long. I could go home and be satisfied“- not expecting.. or wanting more, not only because he has a boyfriend (I am thinking) but perhaps because it is easier this way: to not be involved in a serious, ongoing, real-life relationship. Something lovely and of a short, trouble-free duration has its advantages.
“We spend a lot of time together… and talk about everything…Ā One night he says ‘I think I love you’… We continue… slowly getting more intimate and the worst of all, making plans together“- worst of all because plans will complicate and spoil this easy, simple love story?
“I say ‘well, maybe after all, weāre just like ships passing in the night’“- two ships that passed each other in the night, watching the physical distance grow and grow, are not going to collide and go under.
“One day I walk out of the apartment because he was on the phone with his boyfriend, and when I return he is crying, crestfallen, begging me to stay and not to leave him again. I donāt push him to leave his boyfriend and I donāt know why, perhaps as I donāt feel he owes me anything and I am just happy to be with him“- perhaps the why is fear of a real-life, ongoing, committed relationship.
“The trip comes to an end… I get a job I had applied for when I was out there and weirdly it seems like it all makes sense, that I will earn money, save money and support him so that he can leave his boyfriend. I amaze myself at my commitment to this, no one has stirred up such resolve within me before“- this is the climactic point of the story as I read it: your move toward making this relationship an ongoing, committed real-life relationship.
“We videocall everyday, the plans continue, are re-affirmed. He plans to visit and spend 2 months here in his holidays to meet my family…Ā His boyfriend announces he will visit him. I naturally feel this is a bit too much to simply ‘let’ happen and that he needs to break up with him. He says he will do it while heās visiting as thatās ‘kinder’.Ā I tell him if he wants to prove all his beautiful words right, he has an opportunity to prove them so now“- this is you, the shy guy, fighting for a real-life, ongoing, committed relationship with him. I am impressed and moved.
“I start to realise he wonāt… I call him, he says he is confused and doesnāt know why he canāt break up with his boyfriend… He says loving me is easy“- easy for as long as it is.. not a difficult, real-life, ongoing, committed relationship.
“I tell him he can only love me or him. He calls back the next day and says he canāt do it, and shouldnāt have said all of that if he wasnāt prepared to finally break up“- you fought for a relationship with him. You lost, but not without trying.
“I donāt know how to feel. A love that never was? A love that struck at the wrong time? A mere fling? A romance? I donāt know if I was a real sucker there or it was simply wrong time wrong place. Gosh ! A part of me still wants some far off possibility that maybe one day he will be available and I can love him. Another part is truly, deeply sad and feels an enormous loss.“-
– first, I am sorry for your loss. I wish that this story was different: that he was not involved with another man, at least not after you and him got romantically and sexually involved, and I wished this would have turned into a real-life, ongoing, committed relationship between the two of you. I think that it was a beginning of a love story, but only a beginning, sort of, like a tease of a love story, a taste of it.
What do you think about my understanding here, as it developed? (please take your time to answer this question, if you choose to answer it, of course).
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
Oh, a different guy then. Are you familiar with the term limerence, and do you think that the topic of limerence vs love, which I brought up above, applies to you in regard to your romantic relationships, most recent and prior?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Ben:
Your first thread- where we communicated extensively over 7 pages)- almost five years ago, was about the same guy you shared about in this thread. Back on Oct 10, 2018, you started your thread with: “I had a long term relationship with a lovely guy. But various issues, relational, geographical, visa-related etc. kept us apart. To a certain extent maturity did too, and a fear of committing. We had met just a couple times, but had strong feelings that were more than just ‘a fling’ or a ‘short-time’ thing”.
As I read your original post almost five years later, the first words that came to my mind were something like.. what a lovely love story. Later the term limerence and limerent object replaced my first thought.
Limerence, dictionary: “The state of being infatuated or obsessed with another person, typically experienced involuntarily and characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one’s feelings but not primarily for a sexual relationship.”
From Wikipedia, on Limerence: “an involuntary potentially inspiring state of adoration and attachment to a limerent object (LO) involving intrusive and obsessive thoughts, feelings and behaviors from euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation”.
What do you think about the term in regard to what this guy means to you?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Caroline:
“It’s not that simple“- since it is complicated, I will review your first 6- page thread (Is my friend abusing me?) from Sept 28- Dec 24, 2022, a thread where we communicated extensively (We ended the thread with wishing each other Merry Christmas).
You shared almost a year ago about a friend/ co worker: “He has this habit of talking a lot and very longā¦ He can talk forā¦Ā an hour or hour and a halfā¦ without taking any pauseā¦ He tells me everything… every detailā¦ he again started talking about his bike, what repairs he did, exactly what, where, what day it happened, what he ate for breakfast that day, what he wore, that kind of detailsā¦Ā itās too much, too longā¦ Itās just overwhelming… he had anger issues when he was just being angry all the time and projected this on me… I was always very polite, listening patientlyā¦ Lately I got really tired with this and a bit angryā¦Ā I was tired of listening to this… I am working home office, he and only one coworker are in the office) I feel it is a trap that I fell into“-
-Notice you used the word trap in context of your workplace back then. Fast forward a year, you shared about another trap, one you are currently afraid to fall into. This one is also in the context of work. I wrote to you only yesterday: “visualizing the job, you feltĀ trapped, so,Ā you got scared and you catastrophized the envisioned job situation, seeing it as way worse than it would be… Is this what happened?” You answered: “yes.. I think so“.
The co-worker a year ago talked way too much, projected his anger into you, and bullied you. Your Emotional Response was to feel overwhelmed and angry, but your Expressed Response was: “I was always very polite, listening patiently“. You didn’t assert yourself, didn’t initiate active solutions to the problem, but instead, you displayed Learned Helplessness.
bing. com: “Learned helplessness is a psychological state of passivity and powerlessness. It occurs when someone repeatedly faces uncontrollable, stressful situations, then does not exercise control when it becomes available. A person assumes that nothing is possible.. to change or alter the situation.. People that struggle with learned helplessness tend to complain a lot, feeling overwhelmed and incapable”.
Learned helplessness is a condition that often starts in childhood, as it did in my case: I was repeatedly abused by my mother, all my efforts to avoid and prevent it failed, so I concluded that there was nothing I can do when bad things happen. Fast forward, whenever I found myself in a problematic situation, I froze, didn’t feel capable of solving problems, catastrophized the situation, kept my growing stress inside for as long as I was able to endure it, felt like a trapped animal, getting more and more stressed and then, way too stressed to endure it any longer, I either exploded or I just RAN, left, was gone.
Back to your first thread, you wrote back in Sept last year: “He usually intimidates and bullies me. I regret I put up with this all these months and did not stand up for myself and now it became a trap I need to get out of“- this is learned helplessness. I am surprised that I didn’t bring up the term in your first thread.
On Sept 30, 2022, I wrote to you what applies to your current situation: ”Ā I think that objectively, the situation is not as bad as you feel that it is. You can undo the trap and set yourself free if and when youĀ stand up for yourself and create a new reality at work”- standing up for yourself, asserting yourself in real-life is an essential part of overcoming learned helplessness.
Do you think that the term learned helplessness applies to your life experience?
anita
* I just checked for new activity on the forums and found your most recent two posts. Thank you for welcoming me back to the forums! I will wait for your reply to the above.
anitaParticipantIt just occurred to me (as I went back to bed, thinking that-Ā if it is night time where you are at you may not be relaxed enough to sleep) that it doesn’t have to be that complicated: if there are jobs available to you in your preferred hours of the day,Ā then refuse this job and go for a job in your preferred hours. (I will be back to the computer in about eight hours).
anita
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