Dear Seaturtle:

I will reply thoroughly tomorrow morning, but for now, in regard to: “Is being with N too similar to living with my father for her?“-

– She is re-experiencing her  relationship with her father while in a relationship with N ever since it became a long-enough relationship, longer than all your past relationships. It was bound to happen no matter who you’d be in a romantic relationship, once the relationship lasts long-enough and you become .. (too) attached to the man.

So, I don’t think that there is something wrong about N, as a partner for you.. it’s just that you’ve very attached to him for a long time. and this, which I just boldfaced is why you want to break up with him/ run away.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

(the boldface and italicized features in the quotes that follow are my addition): “Last nigh he met me before the play to wish me luck, he was dressed so nice and brought me flowers, I was so excited… He wished me luck and then said ‘just so you know I have to leave right after the after party for a work thing.‘ I was dumfounded, ‘are you serious? wait what do you mean you were gonna spend the night I thought?‘ .. he said he could reschedule what he had that evening and stay the night. Then he said ‘but I have to leave very early‘… I was distraught and shocked, for about 15 minutes I was trying to breathe through a complete panic attack… he didn’t THINK about us or me at all and I was clearly stating I was free Saturday… I had terribly anxious dreams and can’t see my screen through tears right now… I told him I knew it was an overreaction but I couldn’t stop it from happening… I just feel crushed… I feel so intensely triggered, like he doesn’t even care… I want to completely run away right now. I quite literally want to break up with him right now. He does not see me at all…  I am sorry for being dramatic… I feel like I cannot handle how he disconnects from me and don’t know if I can handle this relationship. It brings me to such low places that make me very depressed… It just feels like love is so painful“-

-On the surface, if one was to look at the surface alone, you feeling distraught, shocked, crushed, very depressed and caught in a complete panic attack, etc., all because your (overworking) boyfriend didn’t .. see/ understand that you wanted to spend Sat with him.. reads (using your words) like you being dramatic/ over-reacting.  Actually, no doubt that your reactions were overreactions to the real-life situation of the present (when you posted last).

But your emotional reactions were not about the present situation. Hatchling- for whom the past is the present, as there is no distinction between past & present.. and Everything is still happening NOW) was reacting to this situation which you shared about on Oct 11: “I left a dish in his sink at his house, or left my backpack downstairs, basically left any trace of myself in ‘his’ house, he would get upset. In fact, while I lived with him I went through a lot of suicidal thoughts and running away attempts… Every 3 months, not an exaggeration, we would have what he began to call ‘house cleaning‘ ..  The shoes by the door, dishes in the sink, backpack/ clothes downstairs, my messy bedroom, messy car“-

– Your father didn’t see you, but he saw  traces of you in his house (a dish, a backpack, etc.) and it upset him. What he did see of you (traces of you).. he didn’t want to see. He wanted to clean his house from.. you. Your emotional reactions then were the same as when you posted last, including wanting to run away: to end the relationship (with your father) by running away or by suicide.

Hatchling is still trying to end the relationship with her father. I think that this is what she is trying to tell you, that’s her message.

On June 29-30, in your first thread, you shared that for 8 months by that point, you’ve been wanting to .. run away (from your father): “Please help me, my mind hasn’t rested in 8 months…   I really have been having this entire debate in my head for a straight 6-8 months now and I don’t want to waste my time, I want to move on… and running away“.

It is not that love is so painful; it’s that living with your father is so painful, being rejected by him to that extent.. so painful. Hatchling is still living in your father’s house. She is still hurting, and she still wants to run away.

If you noticed, I did not address this post to hatchling. What do you (the adult. Seaturtle) think and feel about this post?

anita

Dear Seaturtle and hatchling:

Good to read that the actual play went great! I read only a bit of the rest f your messages and will not be able to read attentively and reply until Sun morning, in about 13 hours from now. Take good care of hatchling, Seaturtle!

anita

Dear DC:

Yes, let us both focus on the positives, on our strength and independence and stand up to abuse and bullying (promoting the strength and independence of others). Thank you for offering your support. I accept it and will keep it in mind.. and heart.

anita

Dear Caroline:

CoNgRaTuLTiOns for your first day at your new job! I hope that the second day feels better than the first.

“Everyone is new here for me and everything is new“- with some time, everyone and everything will not be new to you anymore, and you will find some comfort in the familiarity and routines of people and things.

“I am scared of working late. It tires me. I am scared of the changes… I don’t know where to find comfort“- when you feel scared like this and you are alone, do what I just did: I hugged myself for a long moment, placed my arms around my shoulders and squeezed, and I said to myself: it’s okay. It will be okay today.

Remind yourself, when you feel scared, that feelings do change, and therefore, you will not always feel scared;  that you will be back to the good space in your head that you felt back in Oct 9 when you anticipated this new job: “I am starting next month and I know it will be hard but I am prepared for difficulties and I will take responsibility for my decision. I am sure if it’s too hard I will make it work somehow or change job in two years perhaps. But I am in a good space in my head”.

And please do vent here any time you feel like it. I would like to read from you whenever you post!

anita

Dear Seaturtle and hatchling:

You are welcome and thank you for your appreciation and kind words!

“He complimented my physic, I will never forget him commenting how fit I looked in the ‘love-handle’ area while at the beach in Hawaii, I remember feeling odd about it but also satisfied that he was proud“- there was a touch of incest, covert incest, in his comment. So, you felt odd about it, a mix of odd and proud.

“Is the solution here also emotion regulation skills?”- practicing emotion regulations skills regularly makes it possible to come up with effective solutions to real-life problems. In other words, you have to lower your stress level regularly and feel confident in your ability to do so, in order to think clearly throughout the steps it takes to solve problems effectively.

“What type of therapy would you recommend?“- the type I had in 2011-13: Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) with a strong touch of Mindfulness.

(I am the one adding the boldface feature to the following quotes selectively):

“N is not aware that being at his parents house caused him to feel the same as when he was a child… I actually asked him this morning, how he has felt since the trip or reflected on how he felt back at his parents, and he just said ‘I enjoyed it and didn’t feel badly there this time..‘”- he said this time, meaning that at other times he felt badly… If that’s what he meant (without necessarily meaning to express it to you), then he is aware of feeling badly when in his parents’ home.

It may be that he told you that he didn’t feel badly this time because he didn’t want to talk about it yesterday’s morning.

“As I am really putting effort into how I feel and why, I have this feeling like he is not on that same path and I have a desire for him to be on it too. I want him to be aware of his feelings on that torn up path… I can’t help but crave the same self awareness“-

– it is unrealistic and unfair, really, to expect the same awareness from a person who had a different childhood from yours. Something about your childhood was positive enough to make it possible for you to have the level of awareness that you do today. Maybe he wasn’t that.. fortunate.

“My rational self, outside of the feeling, can see that he didn’t do anything wrong in the game situation…  a part of me, I am assuming hatchling, who still believes he can be nice enough to heal me”-

– Sea turtle (the adult part of you) thinks rationally, and hatchling (the young child part of you) feels and believes. CBT is effective when it comes to challenging the inner child’s emotion-led thoughts (aka emotional reasoning) and leading her into believing what is objectively true vs what she feels is true. Over time, hatchling will believe what is objectively true.

Sometimes what you believe to be true, really is objectively true; sometimes it isn’t.

“When I am in the emotion I can see it overpowering me, I can’t escape it cause I don’t yet have the tools, but I find myself searching for tools when I am in the emotion. I realize there is a lack of emotional regulation skills”- emotion regulation skills and Mindfulness skills (related terms) are the tools that you need.

“I am circling back to this, you mentioned much earlier in your last post, but it stuck with me. When you used the analogy of a fawn and her mother and abandonment = death, it got me wondering where exactly this fear of abandonment is from. These are my two hypotheses: My dad did was not really ever emotionally there. But as far as physical abandonment, he did move out… My mom was emotionally in and out…  she would get extra affectionate. But her wine self is almost like an inauthentic affection feeling .. Then when I moved out with my dad, I left her, so she didn’t abandon me?”-

– A fawn needs her mother’s physical presence and her mother to feed and protect her. Children need so much more than food and physical protection.. Children need predictable affection, approval, and gentle and clear guidance. And more. Because a child needs so much more than a fawn, and because people use elaborate languages (which makes life way more complex), there are many more ways to abandon a child than there are to abandon a fawn.

“I often felt free-er with my mom, but safer with my dad“- I didn’t know that you feel safer with your father… Would you like to elaborate on this sentence, the whole sentence?

“Are the messages sort of like realizations of the true reason hatchling is afraid…?”- the messages behind our physical sensations and emotions are simple, not at all complicated, ex., these: hunger=> need to eat; thirst=> need to drink; tired=> need to rest; scared=> need to run away or hide or fight; angry=> need to fight.

Here is what makes it complicated: when a child goes through a scary childhood, the child adapts to it so to minimize the stress level. We adapt by figuratively closing our eyes to what scares us/ minimizing awareness. Fast forward, as adults, our eyes are still closed and our awareness- blocked to one extent or another, often significantly.

anita

Dear Seaturtle and hatchling:

I will continue to read one part, respond, then read the next part, etc. (the usual way I reply), so, I’ll start with the rest of your yesterday’s post:

“hatchling thought she would literally just die if there was a scenario where he had an ex/crush there that I thought was prettier than me“- for a little girl, a young child (hatchling), a scenario where a parent abandons her for another child (a prettier child, a smarter child, etc.) means death. Imagine a fawn (a baby deer) abandoned by her mother: with no one to feed her and protect her from predators.. the fawn will die.

Back to what you shared earlier about your father’s “love”: “I didn’t receive unconditional love from my father… If I wasn’t doing things to his standards, I received a very cold version of him, versus his warm personality when I was doing something he defined as efficient and effective”- being “loved” so conditionally means that.. if another child did things to his standard, your father would have chosen to “love” and care for that child, and not for you.

Fast forward, projecting your father into your boyfriend, you fear being abandoned by him for another young woman.. one who is more to his (N’s) standards, and the fear feels like the fear of death.

“In the end, N was really there for me and helped me through the panic attack and I felt strong enough to finish getting ready and make it work. Once I arrived at the wedding I instantly felt safer as I met his friends and did not feel less than them…“- yet another testimony to N being a good boyfriend, a good partner for you.

“I love how (N) pays attention to world affairs and has such a level head about what is happening around him. It makes me feel safe“- I can’t think of a better partner for you.

“Once we got back to his parents’ house I still felt connected to him up until after dinner and we started playing a board game with his mom… then N comes in and finishes his, ending the game, leaving me unfinished. When I looked at him he had a straight face with a “sucks to suck” attitude…. in that moment I felt he didn’t love me, didn’t see me, didn’t care about me or my feelings, I felt like he completely abandoned me“-

-if a fawn is completely abandoned by her mother the deer, the fawn will die. If a young child is completely abandoned by parents, the fear is the same, it is an instinctual animalistic fear. Hatchling grew up with this instinctual fear being triggered. She is still afraid of being completely abandoned.

Objectively, N ending the game when he did, and the way he did, was not abusive or even rude, in my estimation. Subjectively, it felt terrible to hatchling because she is so very sensitive to any event that, to her,  has a taste of abandonment, no matter how vague, weak, or minor.. or non-existent the taste is in objective terms.

For hatchling, any taste of abandonment from someone she needs emotionally (N), is a clear-and-present danger, strong and major.

“Next day we drive to the airport… so I tell N how I felt about the way the game ended. He said that my feelings were not warranted for the actions that he did. He said what he did, should not lead to my reaction. I told him he didn’t understand my trauma… He said ‘it’s just a game’ MULTIPLE times, but this only made me feel invalidated cause obviously I was expressing feelings that went beyond a game. To which he responded ‘so then it sounds like we just can’t play games together because you can’t be a good sport.’ I literally wanted to strangle him when he said this, my body was so uncomfortable I felt like I could burst with energy and run a 5k”-

-like I said at the start of this post, I read and respond to one part before reading the next part. So, as you can see in my previous response, I (still) don’t think that his behavior in regard to the game was objectively rude, and I agree with him otherwise: your feelings/ emotional reactions in regard to the game were about hatchling’s trauma/ fear of abandonment (which took hold way before you ever met N), and therefore, it is not about N’s actions.

Your anger toward N was misdirected: he is not responsible to what happened to hatchling, and her resulting trauma.

“When I told him that having all those uncles growing up, like 6 older brothers I was bullied in games… I tried to express to N that I was bullied in games growing up…  when I told N I felt unloved, abandoned and like he was like one of my uncles who teamed up on me while I was abandoned and left alone to fight an army, he comforted me. N told me that he was always on my side and that he loved me, this melted me into tears… It is all I needed to hear to feel safe again“- more evidence that N is a good person and a good partner for you. Even though he is not responsible for what your uncles did and how they played games (way before he ever entered your life), he comforted you anyway. I am very impressed.

“But there is still a part of me, I realized as I wrote this, that just wants him to be ‘nicer’ to just ME, his life teammate, when it comes to games. and I think we still disagree here and I am scared to revisit it and be told he won’t do it or it’s just on me to be less sensitive”-

– N can’t be nice enough to undo what your uncles did to hatchling, nor can he be nice enough to change the conditional “love” of your father, and turn it into an unconditional love. Your healing may require quality professional therapy.

Your post today: first, you are welcome!

“Those hopeless thoughts of ‘will this ever end?’ ‘how many more times will I feel like this with him, is it going to be the majority of our relationship?’ ‘can I handle this?’“- these triggering events (like the game) and the distressing thoughts and emotions that accompany these events will happen again. You need as much emotional healing as possible for you, so to be triggered less and less.. so to talk sense to yourself and comfort yourself when these events happen. You can handle triggering events when you are able recognize them for what they are as they happen, and regulate your emotions the best you can, lowering the intensity of your distress so that you are not overwhelmed.

“The fact the disconnect is on his end I feel alleviated of blame, but then I still feel the concern for its end, because it is in his control and that feels unstable to me“- I am not sure I understand this part, but I’ll say this: N is not Perfect, but reads to me that he is..  close enough to it (and nobody is perfect). He makes mistakes and he will make mistakes in the future.

I don’t think that he made mistakes while playing the game, the way he ended it. You will need to be able to distinguish between his real mistakes and what only feels to you like mistakes.

“Perhaps I can still ask him even though the feelings are not fresh on his mind?“- you asked this in regard to the unpleasant walk in nature when taking a break from being in the distressing company of his parents. I suggest that you ask him this if and when he brings up the topic of his parents.

“To say to myself ‘these feelings are not my fault.’ Does that give the feelings less power?…  Or is experiencing these feelings simply human and will always be there, it’s just a matter of how loud you let them be?“-

– reading this I am again reminded of how intelligent you are, and I am yet again impressed by you (!). My answers to both questions is Yes: (1) Telling yourself (the truth) that your feelings are not your fault (not your choosing) will give them less power because shame and guilt will be peeled off from them, and so, their intensity will significantly lessen, (2) Experiencing these feelings is human and there will always be feelings that are uncomfortable to feel, but you can lower the intensity of these feelings via emotion regulation skills, which means to indeed lower their volume.

“I just wonder where these insecure feelings stem from so that I can pull it out by the root“- hatchling already told you and she has more to tell you, but be gentle about pulling the feelings out by the root.. hatchling needs you to be gentle with her. Every one of her feelings carries a message with it. It is only after you thoroughly heard each message, that each feeling- having served its purpose- will.. no longer be there to distress you.

anita

Dear Seaturtle & hatchling:

“I apologize for my later response, my trip to see my partner’s family was consuming in many ways and I am just now reading this response“- I understand. I wanted to send you a how-are-you inquiry earlier, but figured you are probably busy with the challenging visit and long flight back to AZ. (I was concerned about your relationship).

“The following day him and I stayed at an Airbnb together for a friend’s wedding (the main reason we went on the trip) and I just wanted to do my best to be present and not make the drive about me, which I inevitably would have done if I saw a response from you, I would have needed to express it to him, but I did not want to overwhelm him with my feelings“- E x C e L l E n T    Choice on your part, I am (yet again) impressed with you!

“I am now reading your response. Wow your view of what happened is very perceptive and I appreciate it so much. I now wish I had read it before so I could have better seen the hurt n“- you didn’t know what my reply would be back then, so .. still an excellent choice.

“I completely blamed myself for feeling disconnected”- please don’t blame yourself for feeling anything: happy, sad, hurt, angry, jealous, envious, etc. Feelings just happen; you don’t choose them. No Choice=> No Guilt.

“When I feel disconnected from him I tend to think something is either wrong with me or the relationship, but if the disconnect is happening from his end, how to I detect and remedy this?“- feeling disconnected from one’s partner on occasion is normal. No two people remain close to each other to the same extent at all times. If you don’t get alarmed by this fact of nature.. you won’t feel alarmed on top of feeling disconnected.

In the scenario you described, that walk in nature, what I would have done in your shoes would be to gently, kindly invite N to talk about how he was feeling, if he wanted to. If he said no, or ignored my invitation. I’d just endure the walk and try to be calm about it (not taking his disconnected/ angry behavior personally).

“As soon as we got to the cabin, and I mean AS SOON AS we got there, I felt more connected to him than ever. We had such a bonding moment where I believe we both felt very safe. We cuddled on the couch, then I gave him a haircut for the wedding and we got ready together. We again were connected the next morning and through our whole drive home, even at his parents house“- I am so glad to read this (like I wrote in the beginning of this post, I was worried).

“There was however another issue I had, it wasn’t between US it was, I am pretty sure, between seaturtle and hatchling.. While we were getting ready for the wedding, I tried on the dresses I brought…  and did not feel confident. I thought about how I would be compared with the other women there .. I am not proud of this and new it was not a helpful thought but I felt it very deeply.. thoughts like “N will be attracted to another girl and I won’t compare”-

– like I wrote earlier in this post, feelings just happen: No Choice=>No Guilt. I am adding: No Choice=> No Shame (regarding feelings like envy, jealousy, anger, etc.)

* The way I am answering your post is I read one part, reply, then read the next part, etc., and so, I didn’t yet read the rest of your post except for its ending. I am so tired and I want to continue to read and reply.. probably better that I do Wed morning. Good to read back from you, Seaturtle and hatchling, love back to the two of you!

anita