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To argue or not to

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  • #127435
    Niyata
    Participant

    I hate arguments, because its hard to control how it might end. However i ended up having an argument with my best friend about entertainment industry and it got really heated up.. We had been good friends or is that what i thought until whatever happened last week It was just a petty talk about how this generation produces less original stuff comparing old times.. Suddenly the argument started to get meaner. 5 things which he said was really annoying

    1. “Do u even have knowledge , Oh!”
    2. “Dont even open your cracking mouth”
    3. You underestimate people as usual.
    4. You are so ignorant
    5. You don’t know anything about Music Industry.

    Firstly, i don’t see why so much aggression is there in some general topic. Which means he has unresolved anger with me i guess. I was devastated about how he feel about me. I quietly listened to this and said to him this is the last time i will speak to him for which he said “i have issues” and haven’t spoken to him since. I felt really hurt. There are gentle ways of arguing even if the person is wrong, but he dint choose it. He just used the opportunity to just ramble about me. I’m not a assertive person, but im trying to be. So i still have doubts if what i did was right.

    I really don’t understand why he was so mean?

    #127455
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Niyata:

    He was mean because he has issues, just like he told you. He is angry about personal things in his personal life. Maybe he is angry at a person but does not express his anger to that person. Maybe it is a parent, maybe it is co workers, maybe it is his neighbor. He is too intimidated to express it to the relevant person, for some reason.

    On the other hand, he is not intimidated by you (maybe because you are not an assertive person), so he let you have it.

    No, you were not wrong. On the other hand, once a discussion becomes an argument; once it becomes abusive (as it had), at the very beginning of it, it is best to disengage and stop the conversation-turned-argument. Reason is- it is no longer about the topic (music in this case) and it is nothing but venting one’s anger at other people channeled into the “topic.”

    Once it turned to an argument, it was no longer about the topic or about you-

    anita

    #127465
    Peter
    Participant

    A conversation about the music industry that lead to such anger and hurt feelings was as you suspected likely not about a difference of opinion about the music industry. Just at the argument about taking out the garbage is never really about taking out the garbage.

    In relationships we often create conditions for issue to arise that we are at some level trying to heal. For example perhaps one or both of you needed to heal a a past hurt (now unconscious) where you were no heard, or respected for what you felt or thought. Perhaps at some level you felt as if you had no voice. In such a case the augment was not about the music industry but about having a voice.

    A relationship ought to be a safe place to work out such past pain which is why we use them, almost always subconsciously, for that purpose.

    Anyway in Relationship honest communication is key and that can only start to happen when we become conscious of the real issue at the root.

    I really like the following book Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High, by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler.
    (making is safe and mastering you stories are a must in all honest dialog)

    The book does a good job at teaching people the art of how to have a true dialogue – the free exchange of multiple ideas that allow varying opinions to be put out in the open, along with accurate and relevant information necessary to make decisions. The book also helps readers prepare for high-impact situations; feel safe talking about almost any topic; be persuasive and not an abrasive personality no one would want to deal with; keep cool and calm in tough situations where others freak out or tune out; and in the end see the actions and results you wanted from the beginning.

    Seven effective steps to mastering a crucial conversation:

    1. Start with Heart – What is the desired result from this conversation? What exactly is at stake? You have to ask yourself these questions to determine how important this conversation is to you and your career. Knowing what is at stake going into the conversation will help you stay true to your convictions.

    2. Learn to Look – Be on the lookout for a lack of mutual purpose. Continuously ask yourself whether you are leading the conversation with dialogue or defensiveness. And if you or the other party strays toward the latter, protect your conversation from going downhill with an expression like “I think we’ve moved away from dialogue” or “I’m sorry. I’ve been trying to force my ideas on you.”

    3. Make it Safe – When you notice that you and others have moved away from dialogue, do something to make it more comfortable. Ask a question and show interest in others’ views. Apologies, smiles, even a request for a brief “time out” can help restore safety when things get dicey.

    4. Master your Story – Retrace your path to find out what facts are behind the story you’re telling. When you have the facts on your side, it’s hard to deny your argument.

    5. State your Path – Share your facts and conclusions in a way that will make the other party feel safe telling their story, too.

    6. Explore Others’ Path – A dialogue allows you to actively inquire about the other party’s views. Now that you both understand each other, you can emphasize which parts you agree upon and the areas in which you differ.

    7. Move to Action – Come to a consensus about what will happen, document who does what by when and settle on a way to follow up.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Peter.
    #127507
    Niyata
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thanks for looking into the situation for me. Yeah there was no discussion once he started saying stuff to piss me off. Even If we knew someone is wrong, its always good to use win-win situation to explain and make them feel comfortable (that’s what i would do). In this conversation we had, it was not about me or him but he made it personal by calling me ignorant and the fact i dunno anything. Why this bothered me is, I have been playback singing for 20 years, i have been in the industry till my 26 years of age giving lots of concerts, I still sing but my business had been my priority so when he said those things he knew i would get hurt and that’s why he said it i guess. And I came here because i wasn’t able to take it off my mind i don’t wanna go back and explain him that i got hurt because i really don’t wanna engage in a conversation with a person who hurts me. As u already knew, I lack assertiveness i would after sometime i will forget that he was the one who hurt me and would think i am the reason for this whole fight and would try to convince him. After your suggestion about being assertive (in the past posts) i am practicing to be strong on whatever decision i take. Thanks again for your valuable time!

    #127531
    Inky
    Participant

    Hi Niyata,

    I would use the Broken Record Technique on him. This will do two things. One, it will nullify or cancel out any put downs he gives you. And two, it will show him that he’s not talking about the subject at hand.

    Example:

    Him: “Do you even have knowledge!”
    You: “Yes, actually, I have plenty of knowledge.”
    Him: “No, I don’t think you do!”
    You: “Yes, I have knowledge.”

    Repeat back like a broken record until he stops. Don’t argue, fight back, or defend.

    Other examples:

    Him: “Don’t even open your cracking mouth.”
    You: “I will open my mouth whenever I want to. Don’t swear.”
    Him: “You’re a !@#$!”
    You: “I am not a !@#$. Don’t swear.” (Repeat as needed. Monotone voice)

    Him: “You underestimate people.”
    You: “I disagree.” (Repeat as needed)

    Him: “You are so ignorant.”
    You: “I’m the opposite.” (Repeat as needed)

    Him: “You don’t know anything about the music industry.”
    You: “I have been part of the industry.” (Repeat)

    This is very effective. I brought someone to tears once because I would not let them put me down and was calm. They were afraid to speak to me, but when the did years later I was treated with the UTMOST respect! Not fake respect, but almost revered.

    Good Luck,

    Inky

    #127553
    Poppyxo
    Participant

    Hi Niyata,
    Yes, he has issues with himself. Anger comes from unexpressed emotions. Critical people have the most criticism reserved for themselves, they don’t like themselves they’re expressing outwards their own dissatisfaction, and when they do this they show themselves and you, that they are there own worst critic.

    Another technique you can use is, when someone says something negative or horrible is to say:

    1 – Thank you for sharing that – this will devalue what they’ve said – after all, it’s only their opinion, it’s not fact.
    Sometimes that may work, if not step 2…
    2 – Sorry, could you repeat that slowly, I didn’t quite hear that – this will give them some thinking time, and 9/10 they will retract what they said.
    Sometimes that may work, if not step 3…
    3 – Sorry, are you trying to hurt my feelings? – This will illiterate that they may not actually be trying to hurt your feelings, so they may say “no of course not, what I meant was….” (you just understand it differently). Alternatively, if they say Yes, Yes I was trying to hurt your feelings you can go to step 4…
    4 – well that’s not going to work because I’m not going to let that in.

    and it’s all about letting it in, if you don’t let it inside of you, it can’t hurt.

    Those steps came from Marissa Peer – check out her videos on YouTube!

    Poppy

    #127565
    Niyata
    Participant

    Dear Mr. Peter,

    Thanks a lot for taking time to give detailed reply to my post.

    Yes, I completely Agree seems like he had so many things to say. I really appreciate your book recommendation, i will definitely buy that and read it to improve my conversation skills .

    #127571
    Niyata
    Participant

    Hi Inky,

    Great to see your reply!! I never wanted the argument inky! I tried hard to say no comments most of the time.. because i hate shouting n yelling it reminds of the childhood and bad events., I don’t engage with people who doesn’t know civilized way of speaking. I’m a kind of person even if someone is wrong if that’s not gonna hurt anyone i wont care after all we live in a imperfect world. Even with him it was like that, i had never said anything offensive or bad to hurt him even at times he actually hurt me, but this had happened to be a pattern there is a threshold to everything. I cannot sit and get beat up. When he said the above words i was literally hurt and had no words to speak back, I just told him if i can prove what i said i will stop talking to him forever. He just left the conversation saying that i have some serious issues.. :(.. But point is i never wanna talk to him again.. I’m scared what all he will say in future..

    #127585
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Niyata:

    I wish I could hear you sing. Glad you are working on being assertive!

    I misunderstood: the ending of the conversation with the guy was him telling you that YOU have issues? I thought he said that HE had issues, and in so saying, had an honest spark that could be inviting for a future interaction.

    If he said that you have issues, and that is how he chose to end his offense, then, my goodness, why have any other interactions with him? No reason to invite discord, unpleasantness and abuse into one’s life.

    anita

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