Dear Anita,

I can’t stop thinking about this message. I am afraid that it was my fault that the relationship didn’t work. When I first came here, our conversation began with me trying to take the blame for our relationship, I wanted it to be me that was the problem so I could fix it and make the relationship  work. I thought maybe I was projecting F to N, or wondered if I was requiring too much of N and how to change that. Then it turned out that N was gaslighting and that wasn’t a relationship I could work with. My fear is I caused him to need to gaslight and I just self destructed the whole relationship and have too many needs. That he was too good for me and I will never find better.

Seaturtle

If I am the problem and I am narcissistic with too high of expectations I feel overwhelmed, that N would have been the perfect partner if I was better. And if that is true I also don’t want to be that way.

Dear Anita,

Yes, to answer your question it was about 11pm-midnight here that I was responding. I have had trouble falling asleep the past week, I believe it is because with my surgery recovery I can’t expend all my energy during the day since I can’t even walk very fast so I am just not tired at the end of the day. I was lying in bed wondering about our conversation and decided to read, then unlike other messages I have read beforehand, I felt I needed to respond and wanted to understand but now I will wait for further response on your part before I break down more of the message because I feel threatened by it. Not to say you’re wrong I just fear the implications and how could I be something I so badly don’t want to be? I have tried so hard to be objective with myself, and look at myself when it is uncomfortable because I don’t want to be unaware of how I impact others let alone impact others negatively.

seaturtle

Dear Anita,

“The first shift, as I remember it, was when you described the cash and C word incidents. I then thought that the reason you complained about lesser things in regard to N’s behaviors (ex., N not getting your jokes, not his fault at all, really) was because you didn’t want to face the bigger faults in regard to N’s behaviors, or misbehaviors.”

I thought the same.

“This shift led to discussing N as a spider, motivated instinctually to keep you too weak so that you don’t leave his web, seeing him as a controlling person.. aka the bad guy in the relationship.”

“..it occurred to me that I was wrong: N was not the controlling party in the relationship, you were: you stated it yourself, that the date nights were about what you wanted to do, etc., and you suggested that maybe you were narcissistic.”

When the narrative shifted to N being controlling, it was not something I had thought of him before. I remember questioning that perspective of him, but I could see it in some ways. For example him being late, I did feel like this was controlling in some way, that he to a degree was purposely being late to show some sort of power dynamic. To show that he would not be controlled, he was also so anti-controlling that I did not think he would be himself. He hated to be controlled, and I witnessed him go against that grain and I felt he was doing that with me. Which is why it does make sense that perhaps I was controlling in the relationship, but I also simultaneously feared that I was. I also thought that he would not allow me to be controlling, that he was strong headed enough to point out when I was, because it was the reality check that would make me stop and look at myself. I did not want someone who just did what I wanted, because that inevitably creates resentment and I tried so hard to avoid that in the relationship by communicating with him best I could. I would ask him all the time, “is this what you want?” and he was irritated by that question. I tried to ask him how things I did made him feel and he literally did not know how to answer those questions, so I just kept doing my own thing.

Growing up feeling unseen, I learned, that if I don’t put myself out there then I didn’t deserve to be seen, why would someone see me when I said nothing. So I learned to put myself out there. By “myself,” I mean my thoughts/preferences/feelings. Just like on family trips where my dad called me selfish if the restaurant that I “preferred” was picked. I put myself out there with N best as I could, early in the relationship when I fell in love, I wanted him to understand what he was signing up for with me, who I was. I did not want a relationship where he didn’t meet all of me till later. Like my parents, they were in love, but my mom hid her past and a huge part of her, she showed it to my dad 3 years into marriage, and he told her “I never would have married you had I known this about you.” At 3 years old my parents should have divorced but they stuck it out, no favor to me witnessing them fighting all the time.

My number one fear after falling in love with N was that he would reject me at some point, so to prevent that I told him everything, all my thoughts. He did not tell me his, he did not volunteer information about himself to me, I had to pry it out of him, in “deep” conversations that “exhausted” him. Because my preferences, thoughts, and feelings, were out there, yes that impacted, or maybe even “controlled” the things we did. But I did not want it that way, I begged him to show me who he really was so that I could be there for him. But there are only so many questions I could ask him, I even bought a game for us, it was a couples game with questions to initiate a deeper understanding, he refused to bring them with us on trips, he liked them at first but as soon as the questions got more intimate he would be irritated when I brought up the cards. He rejected therapy, I wanted to go not just to understand him better, but I was willing to have that therapist say what I was doing wrong as well, but he would not go with me.

“There was another thing, you kept saying that you are an empath, big on empathy for others, and yet, lately, I asked myself: where is it?”

When I say I am an empath I say so for these reasons: 1-When I am around a deeply depressed person, happy person, or anyone in an intense emotion I can feel it too. When I step into a room I can sense what emotions are around me, and I base my friends and environment preferences on these feelings. 2-I feel peoples pain, like if I witness someone being spoken to mean, I can feel it and won’t stand for it. I can’t even watch certain movies if someone is being treated badly I can feel it too intensely.

I do thing my empathy has it’s limits though. I have always struggled to have empathy for people in situations they could get out of. For example a relationship, my friend P, I have a hard time having empathy for her because I knew that guy was bad news the first time I met him, so to me I do feel she walked right into what she got. I also think my breakup with N gave me a sense of superiority, I am realizing now and do not think this is right, but I can admit that now watching others talk about their relationships I have less empathy for them, leaving N was the hardest thing I have ever done, relationally, and if I can do it why can’t they. To me I feel like, stop complaining and leave if he is calling you bad names and treating you badly…so here I lack empathy and feel my decision making is superior..

I agree with everything you said in this paragraph:

“So, now, I am quite embarrassed for having vilified N- it was wrong of me to do so, and I don’t want to do this again, not here in your thread and not elsewhere. What I am now inclined to think (from the totality of what you shared, which I did not re-read) is that N has very low self-esteem, that he is highly addicted to weed which keeps him mellow and unreactive (the Teflon brain we discussed), that he is a people pleaser, perhaps codependent, and still, I think, not a good partner for you (for his weed use, if nothing else). And I think that you are not a good partner for him. I think that the cash and C word incidents were a couple of times when he was not able to do the Teflon thing/ to be mellow (you mentioned that at those incidents, he wasn’t on weed, if I recall correctly), so he sort of.. verbally exploded.”

-The day the narrative shifted for you majorly and you said you could not longer speak about N and I should leave that relationship, I read it with a grain of salt. Because of course, my decisions are my responsibility. I don’t think I felt as strongly as you did that N was the only villain in the relationship, but I ended it because of everything I wrote above about communication and the weed addiction that surely impacted that.

“I know that following some therapy and hard work, you will be able to have a healthy relationship with a man who is suitable for you.”

Before reading this I actually researched my insurance coverage and sent a request to a therapist in my network.

 “I think that you need to turn a new leaf and that N should get help with his weed abuse ad wit his self-esteem and assertion skills.”

I agree I need to turn a new leaf, I feel rushed to do so.. I wanted to be the best me and I am finding it harder in this moment than I have before.

” got to take on more humility, to be willing to be equal to others instead of superior. Start or restart your journey as a person equal to others, other people being equal (not inferior) to you.”

I agree with this. I do not want to feel superior to others, but I do and I don’t know why. This is such a strange concept to me because if I really face myself I do think I make better decisions than many others and have more awareness than, F for one. I believe that I am special and unique but I am also insecure that I am the only one that thinks that, which is probably true.

my dad reminded me quite often I was not“- and you tried to prove your father wrong..?

-Perhaps, I have not fully considered this before.

“how does he see the world (summarized)?”

I feel N is driven by fear that he will need others. In this fear of needing others, he gives (is generous) to others in order to feel better about potentially needing them. N is a peacekeeper, he wants the people around him to get along, more than he cares about this own feelings and desires. My analysis would be that he cared SO much about what his parents felt, and wanted them to get along so badly that he ignored all of his own needs and took care of them. He grew up so far from his own feelings that he doesn’t even know what they are, and it has been so long since he thought about them that now they are all in a big scary box he is afraid to open. I think he justifies keeping that box closed by lying to himself, telling himself that it is mental strength to not let your feelings control you, which it may be but nowhere in that is the rule to not even look at them. N loves the outdoors, and doing things that FORCE him to be present with his current feelings, cause that is all the feeling he can handle at a time. He enjoys risky things that he knows he will survive, but he knows will challenge his survival. He would spend days in the mountain with his dad, climbing the mountain and then skiing down, freezing and dangerous. He loves being in survival mode, where his mind shuts up (he uses weed to have the same affect). Survival mode where all he needs to worry about is warmth and food like a caveman.

Earlier when we spoke of me being controlling, when he wanted to do survival mode things, sometimes I was into it, I love snowboarding and camping, but other times I was not in to what he wanted to do. I thought it was pointless to put ourselves in such an uncomfortable situation, so I controlled the situation so that he didn’t take me there. For example the shroom incident. He gave us way too much, at first I thought it was not his fault, he didn’t know how much either it was just a mistake. After, I thought more factually… he has done this more than 2 times before, he knew it was my first time… he knew to some degree how much we were taking, but it was his desire to be in this survival mode that made him WANT that intense situation to happen. That intense situation that he took me to, a place I did not feel safe. I bring that situation up so often because it was the first time real doubt and fear entered my mind about the relationship.

N cares deeply about the people around him and wants everyone to get along, he brings people together with his amazing cooking and his generosity that attracts others. He likes to think about conspiracy theories, as do I. He is goofy when he is comfortable, but he is not trying to be goofy. He is not a class clown, he isn’t the one trying to make others laugh, he is the one to tell someone else to tell another person the funny story so they can laugh too! He is a very hard worker, if he wants something in the sport or financial world he will go get it.

He doesn’t like losing people… he was really impacted by one of his friends leaving without a word last year, the friend was in the drug world and I think was disappointed when N didn’t want to do cocaine and just left. I don’t think I was right for N either, but he was too afraid to lose me to even consider not staying together forever. I think he would more likely compartmentalize our relationship, only speak to me certain times of the day and just keep me out of his life, then to end the relationship. That is what I saw happening between us, it is not that I wanted all of his attention or to be the only one in his life, but I was slowly becoming less of a focus and the further he got the more I felt it and asked him and he denied it.

He wanted to be close to people. He forgave before he would leave… I also think N has an addictive behavior, he over indulges in things he likes. If it felt good then he would do it, his self restraint was not strong. It was this way for our sex life, I am more into anticipation and he would not last one minute before just ripping off my clothes, a couple times more aggressively than I was comfortable with. He is also a gentle giant. N isn’t someone I felt would harm me physically, and if he ever did it was a complete accident, but he did struggle with the word no, or me telling him to stop if he was being too harsh while playful.

N puts others feelings over his own. He once told me he admired that I was not that way, that I was able to say no to things that I felt were going to drain me too much, as he did not have this self control. His need to make others happy, and my desire to make him happy I think was uncomfortable for him. I think he also tried to group me in with him, after a certain amount of time being two separate people dating, we started to become a group, him and me. Grouped together he did not like that I didn’t always want to do what would make others happy, I had to convince him that him and I needed space to talk and it didn’t matter if that hurt his roommates feelings. His roommate did not have the sense to understand and that wasn’t our fault, N’s other friend D was much more respectful of me and N also having our alone time, N’s roommate I found disrespectful and unaware, but N put up with it. So when N and I were just two independent beings dating, he admired that I took care of myself over others sometimes, but once we became closer, and I started to want him to be selfish with me, he no longer admired that trait I had. He wanted to continue to people please and I didn’t.

I think I could go on about N but I will stop because this message is starting to feel quite long.

Have a good evening Anita,

Seaturtle

Dear Anita,

I am keeping this response as short as I can, after the long previous message, while still addressing your questions.

“maybe N is a people pleaser when it comes to dominant/ controlling people..? Or N is vulgar too (when not on weed)?.. (Who is N…?)”

I think N turns rebellious if he thinks he is being controlled, so therefore I don’t think he is a people pleaser when it comes to controlling/ dominant, or obviously controlling people. I wouldn’t call him a people pleaser at all I would say he likes to keep the peace between people, and does not want to scare anyone away. N is not vulgar, well… he was not in front of me. If N was vulgar, it would not be because it is how he really thought, it would be because he was trying to make the vulgar person more comfortable by mirroring their behavior.

“what successful relationships have you witnessed (in real life) and did you witness these closely..?”

Honestly, maybe one, but even them I did not analyze close enough so I am willing to conclude that my notions on what makes a successful romantic relationship work is twisted in places.

“I wouldn’t think that. but when you felt devastated by N not getting a joke.. that’s extreme.”

Before the shroom incident, this didn’t bother me. After that incident I became more analytical and dissecting of the relationship, trying to figure out what was wrong and what was right. Categorizing him not getting a joke as “wrong” was clearly extreme but that is not what created the category.

“when you heard that N said post breakup that he feels like dying.. I don’t remember you caring too much for his supposed suffering”

I did not allow myself to care about that. If I think about it too long I would cry, just like the breakup I had to handle it quickly without emotions or I would run back… to the “web.” I was afraid of running back to him, even now I am not letting my emotions surface but I can feel them trying to. Him saying he felt that way made me want to run to him, but I couldn’t so what could I do with those feelings? throw them away. Even now convincing myself he was just being dramatic… but it hurts me because I know he was sad, but after all, maybe it was just because he hates to lose people, not necessarily because he wanted me.

Seaturtle

*(Laughing emoji) at the bees knees