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Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships

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  • #425892
    seaturtle
    Participant

    It’s over, I did it in person but I made it fast. I basically brought up how he still hadn’t taken responsibility for the things I told him that hurt me like the cash situation and he literally continued on about it being a joke. He said when he was a kid he would laugh when he was disciplined and so now he makes jokes in order to better ask questions and now he literally said he was joking pretending to be an interrogator when he asked about the cash… I saw behind it all and then went on to say his carelessness with my feelings was the end of our relationship. I will add more tomorrow, for now I hope to keep my mind from playing a positive reel about him. I cried immediately after he left, hyper ventilating a bit but it stopped and now I feel kind of numb. My roommate is bringing me frozen yogurt. His only response other than excuses was as he was getting the remainder of his things here and asked “is this really what you want?” And I said “when I am not in my emotions yes.” There were little words, he said good luck as he left.

    #425893
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seatutle:

    You DID IT, Congratulations!!!!

    You did the right thing for yourself, I have no doubt. Sadness about it, distress.. these are normal emotions on your part because you’ve been emotionally attached to him for so long.

    A joke, he said- it’s a lie. You deserve people in your life, particularly a partner in life, who are honest and straight forward with you because you are such a person!

    You just made my evening so much better with your update. I am proud of you, if I may say so. Please have a restful night, you earned it.. good job, well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    anita

    #425894
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Thank you Anita for your support 🙂 I will talk to you more tomorrow morning, goodnight!

     

    seaturtle

    #425895
    anita
    Participant

    I like who you are, Seaturtle. Good night (sleepy face emoji).

    anita

     

    #425883
    seaturtle
    Participant
    #425897
    anita
    Participant

    Good Thursday morning, Seaturtle! Working on a reply.

    anita

    #425898
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    That link took a couple days to send but it was the link with the answers about having a blocked crown chakra. We don’t need to go in depth on that topic right now, perhaps planning the healthiest breakup plan would be best first.

    I want to stop worrying about how he is feeling but I am not quite sure how. I just find myself wanting to know if he’s ok and how he feels when he sees things that remind him of me like the engravings on his wallet I made or the screensaver on his phone. Instead I want to change my mindset to making sure that I am ok and not denying myself, letting hatchling know I did this for her and don’t regret it.

    This morning I am going to 1 1/2hr hot yoga class, typically classes are an hour so this one will be more intensive. And it is followed by 30 min guided meditation at the same company but different room. Then I have to work from 1pm-9 but I will be at my computer. I dreamt all night of him, not in a bad way it was vague and as if we met again in the future under different circumstances, it didn’t feel heavy it was honestly comforting. I am waking up well today 🙂

     

    seaturtle

    #425899
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    Waking up well is a good thing.. waking up to the truth is a good thing. You sent a link about the crown chakra and it’s so very relevant to this time, it being that the crown chakra, the 7th and highest, is the chakra of highest level of understanding/ enlightenment. More about chakras later, postponed. I am working on the reply now.

    anita

    #425905
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    Dec 5: “I reminded him of the cash in the grocery story again… that this was gaslighting.’ He asked questions about what gaslighting even was and I was very precise about it“- if he didn’t know the term gaslighting before you explained it to him precisely.. he knew what it was on Dec 5, and you made it clear to him that there the cash story/ situation and was a gaslighting situation.

    He went on to gaslight me again about this situation, he said ‘it was a joke’“-  after you explained it to him, he went on to gaslight you again.

    “and I said ‘no it was not. It was not. I remember it correctly and see this twisting of my reality is not okay. My life partner should not be making me doubt myself.’ He nodded at this seeming to begin to understand or at least try”- he nodded, seeming to begin to understand, or try to understand.

    “I went on about how damaging the victim of being gaslit can be… I said ‘…I am telling you that the cash situation was not a joke at all, it was serious, I did not feel anxious for no reason, you were investigating me’. He shook his head no, he did not understand… he looked completely defeated, he said something along the lines of ‘I had no idea I came across that way.’ I genuinely believed him, he looked completely stunned at all that I was saying”-

    – reads like he had a revelation, that he found out something he didn’t know before. Looking completely defeated and stunned in regard to the cash story & its connection to gaslighting suggests that something happened (within his crown chakra..) that would lead him to look further into what so completely defeated and stunned him.

    Dec 6: “I basically brought up how he still hadn’t taken responsibility for the things I told him that hurt me like the cash situation and he literally continued on about it being a joke. He said…  he was joking pretending to be an interrogator when he asked about the cash“- nothing happened within his crown chakra and he.. gaslit you again.

    It is easier to repeat a lie than it is to seek the truth. It takes way less time for person A to create a desired effect in person B by lying and repeating the lie, than it is to engage in an honest seeking of the truth.

    From psychology today (in my Dec 1 post), gaslighting involves: “1. Lie … 2. Repetition. Like psychological warfare, the falsehoods are repeated.. 4. Wear Out the Victim.”

    Here is the cash story/ situation from your Nov 24 post, the first time you told it. I am quoting only words uttered and acts done during that one situation. (None of what you thought and felt, none of what you think he thought and felt, none of your interpretations of what happened is included):

    “We went into the grocery store… I pulled out cash from my wallet… he said ‘um where did you get all that cash?‘ I answered ‘from the offer up furniture‘.. he said ‘no that’s not all where it came from where did it come from?‘ … I said ‘I don’t remember‘ he said ‘that’s suspicious you never have money and now you just have cash?‘…  I responded ‘I am not going to tell you, you are asking me with so much distrust, you cannot demand that from me, you can just trust me.‘… He asked if anything was wrong and I was like ‘yea I don’t like how you are talking to me, accusing me of doing something shady, asking me questions like I am untrustworthy‘… he then said ‘you never have money and now you do and me asking makes me an a**hole? You know what, f**k you.’… We didn’t speak the rest of the drive”.

    I am not an expert on humor and jokes and yet, I am confident that there was absolutely no humor and no jokes in that situation.

    But if he repeats that the above was a joke.. If you give him more time in your life to repeat the lie.. you are likely to believe it more and more, being worn down by the persistence and repetition of the lie.

    Dec 7 (I will be reading and replying to one sentence before reading the next): “I want to stop worrying about how he is feeling but I am not quite sure how”- first, understand that how he appears to be feeling is not how he feels. For example, in the above- he nodded, appearing to understand or try to understand, but he didn’t; he appeared defeated and stunned but he was not.

    “I just find myself wanting to know if he’s ok and how he feels when he sees things that remind him of me like the engravings on his wallet I made or the screensaver on his phone”- you are projecting what you feel into him. If the two of you were similar, such a projection would likely be quite accurate, but the two of you are too different for your projection to be accurate.

    You kept explaining to him how his words made you feel, assuming that he cared about how you feel, but “He said ‘words don’t mean sh*t, get that through your head” (Nov 24)- your words too are included in “words”. Your words about how you feel. don’t mean sh*t to him.

    * (Dec 5): “1-How will you change to better the relationship: He started, he said he was going to start taking better care of himself, his home cleanliness and eating habits”- did you notice that you were not in his answer. You being in the answer would be, for example, answering: the two of us should take better care of ourselves in these ways…, or  I need to take better care of you by talking about things you care about, like spirituality.

    Back to Dec 7:  “Instead I want to change my mindset to making sure that I am ok and not denying myself, letting hatchling know I did this for her and don’t regret it”-

    – hatchling needs to be held and hugged and made to feel safe. It is Seaturtle’s job to see to it that hatchling is not being held and hugged by just anyone, so that she doesn’t get hurt. Seaturtle needs to evaluate: who is this person.. what is he about?

    “I dreamt all night of him, not in a bad way it was vague and as if we met again in the future under different circumstances, it didn’t feel heavy it was honestly comforting“-

    – If the two of you met under different circumstances, it’d still be him under those different circumstances. And what does being him means?

    The answer, the true answer .. is not going to be comforting to you. What has been comforting to you so far has been believing that he is very different from who he truly is.

    In your very first post (July 29), you asked: “Is this all just me running away from the most genuine and loving/caring/kind/PATIENT/ would-do-anything-for-me man ??????????????”-   in boldface here is the comforting answer to the question: who is N?

    I don’t think we are soulmates. But we are very in love, I have been dealing with these small disconnects for a long time but they keep coming back to me… I really have been having this entire debate in my head for a straight 6-8 months now” (July 29)-

    – the true answer to who is N? is in the above quote: the two of you are too different to be soulmates. His dishonesty makes it impossible for him to be anyone’s soulmate. You’ve been in love with him for too long, and so, you’ve been motivated to see him positively, in a way that would comfort you.. (not the way he truly is).

    “We met on Tinder, he was late for the first date, but I didn’t mind.. since it’s not like he knew who he was being late for, lol, my logic anyways” (4th sentence, July 29)-

    Do you know who you’ve been on time for in the last couple of years?

    anita

     

    #425909
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle: I will soon be away from the computer for the remainder of Thursday and back Friday morning. I hope that you are okay and strong!

    anita

    #425910
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    Before I leave for the day: I don’t think that N had let go of you, and not as easily as he appeared to have done last evening. I think that he knows how attached you have been to him for so long, so he’s playing it cool, waiting for you to break and get back to him.. or he contacts you with more appearances of feeling defeated, stunned and whatnot, knowing that a big part of you is very motivated to believe what ever he says because (that big part of you) does not want to break up with him. I think that he feels that he invested in you too much (money, time, whatnot), and he is not willing to give up on his investment.

    I am worried that you may be very conflicted/ distressed as you read this (?) and I don’t want to add to your distress, so please, feel comfortable to take a break from our communication for as long as you need to, or limit our conversation to other topics.. whatever is best for you at this time.

    In any case, I will be back to the computer Fri morning. Please take good care of yourself!

    anita

    #425911
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    – reads like he had a revelation, that he found out something he didn’t know before. Looking completely defeated and stunned in regard to the cash story & its connection to gaslighting suggests that something happened (within his crown chakra..) that would lead him to look further into what so completely defeated and stunned him.

    -This sounds right, that he had a revelation and basically reevaluated the way he thought of the situation, but still trying to figure out how to reevaluate in a way where he would have to take no responsibility.

    From psychology today (in my Dec 1 post), gaslighting involves: “1. Lie … 2. Repetition. Like psychological warfare, the falsehoods are repeated.. 4. Wear Out the Victim.”

    -which is what happened at our dinner on Monday night.

    “I am not an expert on humor and jokes and yet, I am confident that there was absolutely no humor and no jokes in that situation.”

    Me too.

    “But if he repeats that the above was a joke.. If you give him more time in your life to repeat the lie.. you are likely to believe it more and more, being worn down by the persistence and repetition of the lie.”

    I can see this still happening within myself which is a strange thing. I have attempted to be in communication with my higher self ever since I had my first revelation about this concept in 2021, while I was already with N. Like I mentioned before, he met a different more gullible version of me. Ever since this revelation I have had some extra clarity about things, but almost as if it is sometimes wisdom, that I see but I see it like a quote that I don’t yet relate to. You know how you can give someone all the advice you want, but they need to be ready to hear it. If they aren’t they don’t. My higher self has been giving me messages to leave the relationship since the beginning of this year, since I first posted on here. But I wasn’t ready to hear it. But it is almost as if I could sense it coming and was subconsciously and consciously preparing myself for it. The part of me that wasn’t ready to hear it, tried so hard to mend the “miscommunication.” Saying to myself “if only I could communicate my feelings better, he will surely understand and not repeat those actions that hurt my feelings” and “perhaps my dad is why I have these feelings, I can fix my feelings and THEN our relationship will work.” But as I was doing all this “hyper-meditation” with a dimmed crown chakra, simultaneously my higher self was taking care of me, because I asked her to. I asked for guidance in this relationship so much.

    I am attempting to unite the two, my earthly self and higher self. But my earthly self (or sea-bound self cause I am Seaturtle, hahah 😉 ) my earthly self has a door open to “maybe he was really joking, and I completely misunderstood him!, how sad, i have empathy for him because I know what it means to be misunderstood and If I did that and left/abandoned him…enter guilt” I know this door is open and I want to work hard to not let this actually become something that I even give attention, although I already have, I want to shut that door.

    My higher self has prepared me for this breakup, and I hope that my current state of calm, is not temporary and just a delay in intense pain.

    Dec 7 (I will be reading and replying to one sentence before reading the next): “I want to stop worrying about how he is feeling but I am not quite sure how”- first, understand that how he appears to be feeling is not how he feels. For example, in the above- he nodded, appearing to understand or try to understand, but he didn’t; he appeared defeated and stunned but he was not.

    -We had each others location, on an app, for safety and other helpful reasons. He removed me on his location last night. I have done nothing online yet, such as do all the social media picture deleting and unfollowing etc.. Just because I don’t want to rub salt in the wound for him and I also am perhaps not ready to hit delete on the happy memories I posted. Anyways, after I saw he stopped allowing me to see his location I was wondering how he was feeling. Because I did check it to make sure he drove home safely, I was worried. And when I looked he was at a marijuana dispensary, proof he will avoid the thought of me as much as he can? But after that the location was off. He is not one to go out to clubs or anything, he is an introvert. Anyways, not sure how healthy it is I think of his feelings this much as he is clearly not doing it for me and I should be focusing my energy on me now, I used enough energy on him.

    “I just find myself wanting to know if he’s ok and how he feels when he sees things that remind him of me like the engravings on his wallet I made or the screensaver on his phone”- you are projecting what you feel into him. If the two of you were similar, such a projection would likely be quite accurate, but the two of you are too different for your projection to be accurate.

    -I see. Is it projecting though if I think I know him well enough to know he probably changed the screensaver in the parking lot before he drove away from my apartment, as he looks at his phone every 10 minutes for work things. Also I bet he through that wallet out the window, because he probably thinks what I engraved is a lie now. Again though, not sure these thoughts are healthy and if I should allow them to take my energy.

    You kept explaining to him how his words made you feel, assuming that he cared about how you feel, but “He said ‘words don’t mean sh*t, get that through your head” (Nov 24)- your words too are included in “words”. Your words about how you feel. don’t mean sh*t to him.

    -Yea this hurts to read, actually I laughed after reading “assuming that he cared about how you feel.” Just crazy this could be true.

    “– hatchling needs to be held and hugged and made to feel safe. It is Seaturtle’s job to see to it that hatchling is not being held and hugged by just anyone, so that she doesn’t get hurt. Seaturtle needs to evaluate: who is this person.. what is he about?”

    – Seaturtle needs to evaluate about who? about n? I feel exhausted of the evaluation I have already done about him, I am curious to know why this would help?

    “the two of you are too different to be soulmates. His dishonesty makes it impossible for him to be anyone’s soulmate.”

    This makes me sad for him.

    “You’ve been in love with him for too long, and so, you’ve been motivated to see him positively, in a way that would comfort you.. (not the way he truly is).”

    This makes sense. Crazy feeling is I feel more at peace and calm today than I have in a long time. I hope it is not temporary and just my mind making me numb to the emotions. As when a child experiences something traumatic they feel nothing because their psyche cannot handle it, then the emotions appear later in life.

    “We met on Tinder, he was late for the first date, but I didn’t mind.. since it’s not like he knew who he was being late for, lol, my logic anyways” (4th sentence, July 29)-

    – Do you know who you’ve been on time for in the last couple of years?

    -Yea this could have been my first sign, even him literally missing our third date. But he really made me feel like he felt so bad for that and apologized so much and sincerely asked for another chance. I don’t know if I want to re-live the whole relationship though, because I already went through it.

    I would like to go through this breakup as healthy as possible, and the way I can get the most growth out of it. I want to do the bare minimum I need to as far as thinking about why he does things. I thought about this SO much while we were together that now I just am tired of it, but I will do what I need to properly grieve this relationship. A part of me just wants to move on and just focus on me now and not hear his name again, but I don’t know if this temporary either, maybe it is just because I do not miss him yet.

    ” I think that he knows how attached you have been to him for so long, so he’s playing it cool, waiting for you to break and get back to him.. or he contacts you with more appearances of feeling defeated, stunned and whatnot, knowing that a big part of you is very motivated to believe what ever he says because (that big part of you) does not want to break up with him. I think that he feels that he invested in you too much (money, time, whatnot), and he is not willing to give up on his investment.”

    I agree. He was playing it cool, and also tried to have the last word too but it didn’t work because I did not care.

    A couple more details on the actual breakup, if you would like to read. I started by saying that I re-evaluated our dinner date and how he took no responsibility by the end. Then he said the part where he was still joking about the cash, I shut that down. He tried to defend himself and I stopped him to say I would no longer put up with him hurting my feelings “accidentally” or not. New detail, he then said “wow you are really breaking up with me right now” then he said “you are really breaking up with me about hurting your feelings?” at this point I just said “if that is what you are taking from this I don’t really know what else to say” then he was very quiet, pouting like a little kid just looked annoyed and wanted to leave. I then said “I had more to say, I have been thinking about this for a while, but thoughts aren’t all coming to my head right now” and he then said “I am just over this conversation.” Anita you know what is wild to me, he went from “baby no I was just joking” to completely emotionless and irritated within one minute. He then said “well are you gonna walk me back or stay here” I said “I will walk back with you.” His wallet and keys were in my apartment, and I already had his clothes in a bag. He said “wow clothes already packed up.” then I said “do you want the bread maker your mom bought you?” he said “yes” in an annoyed tone. I got it out for him. He then said “yea give me the game cube too” we bought that together but at this moment I wasn’t thinking of that and just wanted his energy away from me. He dropped the bag off clothes by me, I put the gamecube in. As i was packing he said “So like what am I suppose to do in a future relationship” surprised by the question my reaction was “i don’t know, be more aware of her feelings and treat her more gently” he said “so you really think I wasn’t gentle enough with you?” still in an annoyed tone. I did not respond. Just kept my head down, packing. I went to hand him the bag and he did this weird twist with his hand to avoid touching mine. He looked at me, emotionless, defeated and annoyed “well I guess.. goodluck” I just nodded and quietly said “same,” then he turned and left with is things.

    When I packed his things a few days ago I put the poem I wrote in the bottom of the bag. My roommate suggested taking it out said he wouldn’t understand it, but I thought about it a few times and just decided to leave it, nothing to lose for me and perhaps some closure for him. It did not feel wrong to me. But I doubt he will even unpack that bag for a while he is not one to unpack quickly at all.

    I do worry about him reaching out to convince me to come back. I also worry about him impulsively sending me a rude message about me owing him. Not sure. I hope has enough love and respect for me to not do these things but I am honestly not sure.

    Seaturtle

    #425920
    seaturtle
    Participant

    I think last night and today I felt numb. But tonight is a different story.

    I was working at my art gallery and I saw a couple that resembled how n and I were in a couple ways. The guy touched her back the way N touched mine. After seeing that it messed with my head and that was a couple hours ago, now I am home trying not to think of my lack of physical affection now and the potential of where is affection will go next 🙁

    I wish I wasn’t having these feelings but I feel gross thinking of him with someone else and feel sad that I will not have someone touch me in a loving way for a while. A friend told me I had to be that for myself, but sadly I don’t quite know/remember how.

    seaturtle

    #425926
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    This morning I woke up with more clarity. I remember the time while I lived with N, I think I told you about here. We were just sitting on the couch, no previous argument, all was fine to me. The previous day he saw over my shoulder when I was looking at my bank account and it was pretty much empty as I waited for my next paycheck. He has recently helped me with a medical bill that had to do with birth control so both our responsibility. Anyways back to the couch, he was irritated, I said what’s wrong? He said “oh I can’t buy this trailer I need and want for work, I don’t have enough.” He looked at me with a serious face, “can you help me buy one?.” His fave was completely serious, like he wasn’t really asking me cause he knew what my bank account looked like and that he had just spent a lot of money on the birth control. I felt so uncomfortable and badly, I just kinda like said “no?” Like in my response obviously? And he just returned to his phone. Next day I told him that that made me very uncomfortable given the circumstances and he said “oh baby no, you thought I meant that? No it was just a joke! Hahaha no baby” and hugged me.

    the amount of this gaslighting I have gone through! It is angering. I wish I brought this up in the breakup, wish I could text him this now but I absolutely wouldn’t start that.

    seaturtle

    #425927
    seaturtle
    Participant

    You know what, ironically, he said I felt too many emotions and was too sensitive but in reality he was! When I told him he didn’t make me feel beautiful he said in a joking/sad manner “if you know you will leave me” I always thought this was a joke but he clearly doesn’t know what a joke is so this was true, wow just dimming my light! When I told him he didn’t tell me I was beautiful enough, I think I mentioned before the words of affirmations, when I would tell him I didn’t get what I needed there he would get sad! And say “that makes me so sad you don’t think that” and he would tell me “it’s so sad you don’t hear them, you never listen.” Which I think telling me I didn’t listen was gaslighting as well because it made me doubt my listening capabilities, I’d ask myself, “was I really unaware of a compliment? I don’t hear him?” Making me think I was the problem.

    Anita, let me know if this sort of venting is okay for you me to post here, if you don’t want to read the negativity I can journal in my personal notes. I just think either way daily journaling will be good for me 🙂

    seaturtle

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