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- This topic has 1,633 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 4 months ago by Cali Chica.
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October 3, 2018 at 4:19 am #228749AnonymousGuest
Dear Cali Chica:
It is very good reading from you!
Hope you do go on the vacation you are planning soon enough, a vacation aimed at doing nothing much. I am curious as to what it would be- at the beach under the sun someplace tropic, maybe. I would think it would be too cold for my favorite setting, a cabin in the woods. But I do have fond memories of lying under the sun, the sun melting my distress, bringing about a euphoric feeling.
As you observe yourself so well, doing the “extroverted and ‘do all’ person”” role, it is good enough that you made one change, one time (“sat back and just relaxed and observed the conversation”), one change at a time. The aim, I suppose, is not to adapt an opposite role, introverted-and-do-nothing person, but find what works for you, what suits you, someplace in between the two.
Looking forward to read about your vacation.
anita
October 12, 2018 at 5:22 am #230493Cali ChicaParticipantHello Anita,
Good morning and Happy Friday.
This week was my birthday – I am now 33 years old. Oh how much I thought about you and our conversations during that day and this whole week.
I have observed so much – and instead of trying to take each fleeting thought as IS, I am trying my best to let them pass by. As in, each feeling and emotion is not in stone and definitive – they are just passing feelings. This is incredibly difficult to grasp, as in the moment it is hard for us (me) to feel that what I am feeling may not be indicative of “reality.”
I notice that my mother fed me lies. I notice that her world was full of delusion. But it did not appear so. It appeared quite opposite– that her words were of truth, and that of honesty. In fact, she made it a great point in her life to exclaim that she speaks truth and honesty – and others don’t. That she is raw, open, and real — others are fake and keeping appearances.
So of course, I went about my life truly believing every little thing she said. Whether it was about another person, location, or concept of life. It infiltrates from concepts such as what kind of man is the “right” one to marry, to things such as what the ideal lipstick color is. It infiltrates from concepts of what is the “best” way to travel, to concepts of what a “real” friendship should be.
And concepts such as the last one are the most harmful. It is much easier to dismiss the tangible to say – oh my mother always preached that apples were better than oranges – but I enjoy oranges. Sure, easy to conceptualize and understand, and dismiss. But what is much more difficult is the following:
-what makes a “good” friend
-what makes a “good” spouse
-what is fulfillment
-what is a good life
-what is happiness
And there I have it, the meat of the matter.
A short time ago I mentioned to you that when I was trying to climb and achieve more and more, it wasn’t necessarily to reach those tangible goals, it was to convince myself – and the mother voice – that I was good enough, or what I had was enough, etc.
I also realized, that this is akin to appeasing a bottomless pit, there will NEVER be enough…
Now I also will add, my mother (in her almighty godliness) also felt she knew the answers to the above: the definition of fulfillment, of what makes a good life, and most importantly – what defines happiness.
She was so FAR from having these things, or even understanding them, that she PREACHED day in and day out about what they were. As though if I all I ever wanted was to get married, and so the farther I got away from a marriage prospect, the more I projected and preached what a good husband is, and what an amazing married life means. And the more I did that – the farther I got from reality of actually gaining such a prospect. An endless vicious cycle of projection and delusion.
So now you have this woman doing this, not just woman – MOTHER. With two young impressionable daughters nonetheless And there you have it – the perfect recipe for plugging false ideas and delusions into their brain.
No matter what they achieve or how intelligent or advanced they are, they were spoon fed delusion from birth, and so that is what will stick.
Our ideas of the world that were fed to us by our parents, are indoctrinated within us for life – we take them to be the godly truth.
Well that is, unless you are like me (us) and see clearly – and are given the life long task of UNDOING these delusions.
Oh wow, I can not think of a greater task in the world…
- This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Cali Chica.
October 12, 2018 at 5:46 am #230499AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I know your wedding anniversary date, not your birthday, happy post birthday week!
I too “can not think of a greater task in the world” of “UNDOING these delusions”, of changing what we learned at an early age.
One thing that your mother taught you is that fulfillment/ a good life/ happiness is over there. Not here, but there. But when you get over there, and there becomes here, the good life is still over there.
These things, fulfillment, the good life is about honest, affectionate, respectful relationships, starting over here, that is, within the family. I don’t think your mother ever considered the value of the relationships in her life as something that has to do with fulfillment and a good life.
anita
October 12, 2018 at 7:31 am #230513Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
My birthday is October 7 – when is yours?
One thing that your mother taught you is that fulfillment/ a good life/ happiness is over there. Not here, but there. But when you get over there, and there becomes here, the good life is still over there.
Yes, always chasing the there, what is not here.
October 12, 2018 at 7:38 am #230515AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I celebrate my birthday July 18, which is not the day I was born. It’s been a decision I made a few years ago. “Chasing the there, what is not here”- yes, a stupid teaching, isn’t it. You can’t be there before there becomes here, I mean, the moment you are there, it is here and there becomes the objective.
anita
October 12, 2018 at 5:20 pm #230607Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
July 18, what a lovely day to choose – I sure love summer, I will keep this in mind.
This got me thinking about the concept of birthdays – or birth days – as it signifies the day you were born.
But that gets lost, and birthdays become about parties, celebrations, and others. It becomes less about you sometimes, and more about the group, the show, and the hype.
This was definitely me for a long time, until this year even. Birthdays were all about big groups, and parties, lots of friends, sometimes even grand gestures. Sure it was great – but looking back it feels quite narcissistic. In some ways, it is a great way to spend quality time with friends – but in others it seems odd to make such a big deal about one day.
Well I guess in that case you can think like that about anything, holidays, birthdays, anniversaries. As long as you keep in mind the reason you are celebrating it, and focus on the good, love, support, and relationships – then its great.
Like you said: the good life is about honest, affectionate, respectful relationships, starting over here, that is, within the family
On another note,
I wanted to share that I feel less triggered by my surroundings recently. I notice this is because I stop and observe (or try to) before responding.
What I mean by triggered isn’t exactly what it sounds like – I mean, easily annoyed, irritated, etc.
I find that if I have the patience to observe and listen to another person, I am less likely to feel instantly annoyed.
I also find that often people are just talking out loud to their OWN self (we have touched on this before) and so it doesn’t really involve any input from me (other person). This goes along with my increasing work on, staying silent, and not always having to interject and having something to say. It is much more relaxing and peaceful. It is not natural to me – as it is not my habit, but like all things -practice, and feel good patterns – will stick over time.
Another aspect of the triggered is that, I am trying my best not to absorb the emotions of others (when they are negative, complaining, anxious, etc). I am trying my best to remember that this is an issue of that person, it isn’t something I am responsible for, nor sometimes even capable of helping. I should focus more on listening and less on doing.
We also touched upon before, that whole concept (that made your head spin) about the here versus there – and how I often didn’t value my husband (because we decided…he is here and not a threat and as valuable as something over there). I have started to see how delusional that is, and how blind! I have really valued him more and more each day – especially living with his parents who have taught him such good morals – as I spend time with them daily right now. I find that over “there” these days is not even attractive, so much so that I don’t care too much to socialize and be involved with too many people during this time. (similar to right after i stopped talking to my mother, i called it a cocoon). I see now that I am changing my priorities and focus and i have the liberty to do so – I am growing woman as are my priorities. My life has been exhausting (at the least) over the last few years, and I don’t have to do anything I truly don’t want to.
October 13, 2018 at 6:07 am #230643AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
“I am trying my best to remember that this is an issue of that person, it isn’t something I am responsible for, nor sometimes even capable of helping. I should focus more on listening”-
I struggled with this in the last couple of days as a person was talking to me, I felt the need to interrupt and offer help. And I did interrupt, repeatedly, and was of no help at all.I noticed that I felt empathy for the person’s pain and the compulsion to do say something ASAP to make his pain stop. As if I had that power. I repeated to myself: I didn’t create his pain. It is not my doing. It is not for me to fix. And I can’t. I forget sometimes that a person needs to hear herself and talking help accomplish that. So, in moderation, I will listen. Quietly. It is a good thing that in this context, here online, it is not possible to interrupt a person as they type away their thoughts.
You are an inspiration for me, Cali Chica!
anita
I am trying my best to remember that this is an issue of that person, it isn’t something I am responsible for, nor sometimes even capable of helping. I should focus more on listening
October 13, 2018 at 6:22 am #230649Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good morning – and you an inspiration to me as well – always!
You wrote: ” I felt empathy for the person’s pain and the compulsion to do say something ASAP to make his pain stop”
Yes, exactly! It is so nice to talk to someone who just gets it. I feel the same often, and often it feels quite burdensome. Now, I try to remind myself that this is self-inflicted. Why is that hard to realize/process?
Well..because with our mothers it was not self-inflicted. It was inflicted by them, onto us, for our entire life. Overt, and covert. Overt is easier — “i am sad, make me happy.” covert is much more difficult and insidious — “oh if only i could find some joy in this world..sigh…”
So we Cali Chica and Anita – jump to this! oh mother, I wish you could find some joy too – let me help you – let me not rest until I find it for you….let me dedicate my life to this…let me make myself miserable doing this…let me wake up one day and feel defeated by this.
You know Anita, we carry a feeling of defeat and exhaustion that truly no one can understand. YET, we still innately feel above, as you wrote, compelled to help ASAP! Isn’t it crazy how deep programming from our mothers run – that even at our lowest we jump into that mode, like an animal ready to attack even when wounded…
I guess we always were in survival mode, fight or flight…so it persists. We don’t ALLOW ourselves to step back, observe, and just be. It is not innate to us.
But, it may sound odd– reminding ourselves (and each other) of this incredible defeat and exhaustion is important. It is not self-wallowing, no. It may seem that way to an outsider with no experience with such a life. No, it is in fact a reminder that we do need to sink and savor.
So yes, all we can do is try – and practice – to sit back – to observe – and we will find that often that brings out our best self.
October 13, 2018 at 6:39 am #230653AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
As I read your recent post I experienced something I don’t remember experiencing before, reading a post. I felt sameness, that is, as if you were my voice, voicing my experience exactly.
The “oh if only I could find some joy in this world.. sigh”, and we “jump to this! oh mother, I wish you could find some joy too- let me help you- let me not rest until I find it for you.. let me dedicate my life to this… let me make myself miserable doing this”- exactly.
“compelled to help ASAP! .. even at our lowest we jump into that mode, like an animal ready to attack even when wounded”, wounded by the very person we were trying to help. “We don’t ALLOW ourselves to step back, observe, and just be… we need to sink and savor”- yes, but I will practice, more encouraged to practice this after reading your post. Thank you!
anita
October 13, 2018 at 6:42 am #230655Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I shall practice too – and as always keep this conversation in mind. I will loop back with some thoughts from my practice (as practice can be in the smallest ways, even observing our own mind first – before others), and feel free to share yours as well!
October 13, 2018 at 7:07 am #230669AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I will share with you how my practice goes and looking forward to read more about your practice.
anita
October 13, 2018 at 1:51 pm #230749Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
the universe has aligned forces for me to practice this today more than ever. To be continued…I’ll write more about my day soon!
October 13, 2018 at 2:35 pm #230753Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I spent my day talking to two woman that were distressed and wanted to speak to me. not one, but two. clearly the universe wanted me to put our practice – into practice! (i will use terms as our and we, signifying that we are practicing similar things – and not to overstate at any time that we are of course in the exact same situation)
So I spoke with person A and B. Person A wanted my advice, Person B wanted to share and vent. Both scenarios required patience and listening. Both are distressed woman in a currently uneasy state – both with anxious energy.
And you know what, after speaking to them Anita – right now I do not feel more anxious, I do not feel triggered, and I do not feel worse. In fact, I feel centered.
Why is that? Well for the first time in practically my whole life, I did not interrupt this person sharing their story. I took a step back and did some self talk – I said, wow, this person is struggling, she may have trouble getting her words out, she may have trouble even knowing what to say, she may not even know what she’s thinking, so give her the space to get it out. This space didn’t just work for her, it worked for me. It was that much more relaxing to sit back and breathe as this person unraveled their story. It was that much less burdensome. I didn’t have to jump in and be the savior – no I did not. I wasn’t asked to first of all, but more importantly, I didn’t assume knee-jerk that this was my role.
So then later in the day when I spoke to person B, with an entirely different scenario, but distressed as well – I had practice. And like I said before, practice and “feel good patterns” can stick over time. With person B I did an even better job of listening. It allowed her comfort in getting her story out in different fragments, and time to collect her thoughts. It allowed me to have similar self talk again, to remind myself that this person needs someone to be patient.
Now, what did this do for me. It made me think Instantly that WE, you and I, are not like others Anita. I don’t mean to say this to sound elitist – but the way our brain works is not the norm.
We have encountered so much trauma and abuse, and we have risen above, to the point that we are writing eloquently today in this moment – oh how uncommon this. How unique this is. How extraordinary.
So with that, I had a reminder that most people do not process things the way we may do now – knowing what we know, experiencing what we have. I do not expect them to – neither do you. But with that, it was important for me to remind myself that. I may want to jump in and help someone, but have to realize that the wavelength of their mind may not be at the same place mine is – it may not be right now yet, or may never be.
We are all different humans, we can be loving and supportive, but we must also value that the depth of our emotional progress should not be mirrored onto others so simply – we should not expect it, and we should not project it.
It made me proud of us today though. I was a good listener and supporter – but with that felt even more confident in my ability to be where I am in this world now – not dealing with the distress of a friend, a spouse, or work – but no that of the one who raised me. Same as you. Now that is a feat. It is an ongoing journey, but I have gratitude for all the work you have done to get where you are – and now the work I have done to get to where I am.
So in conclusion, I believe we make great supporters, and we are learning to be great listeners. We can be grateful for this gift and for our progress. It is a special gift, the courage, bravery, and emotional ability we have. But perhaps…we can keep it as my/our little gift, it does not have to be extended out to all, and each and every person. They may not understand it, appreciate it, or even need it – and that effort we put forth to extend it can take a toll on us. We may want people to see things the way we do, to decrease their suffering, to help them get by – but our emotional journey can not be mirrored onto them. By listening we can protect them, and our selves. By protecting ourselves, we protect our journey, and also our role in this world.
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by Cali Chica.
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by Cali Chica.
October 14, 2018 at 4:38 am #230875Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I slept on what I wrote to you and I thought about how possibly I did not explain myself well- as it is hard to put into words what I was trying to say. I thought about how if an outsider read it, it would sound like I think myself higher and above others, and so I should not give advice. Which is untrue
But when I woke up today – I realized the meat of the matter. It is that we are truly and utterly exhausted and defeated. Yes, being on the path is a chance at a new life, and is hopeful. Yes, we have risen above. But, wow what an incredible feat. What an exhausting job to undo the old neuropathways and patterns of your life literally day in and day out, and in almost every moment.
So if for nothing more, we must protect our precious energy. Listen we must, to be good supporters, but to be protectors of our gentle spirit that allows us on the path.
Today I feel my spirit needs some extra nurturing and protection. I wonder how you feel…
Speak more soon.
October 14, 2018 at 6:56 am #230879AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I think you are amazing, just like I wrote to you before, repeatedly. The practice you did was excellent, listening to A and B. I am typing your words here so to absorb them, so to use your practice in my own: “I did not interrupt this person sharing their story. I took a step back and did some self talk- I said, wow, this person is struggling, she may have trouble getting her words out… she may not even know what she’s thinking, so give her the space to get it out. This space didn’t just work for her, it worked for me.. I didn’t have to jump in and be the savior- no I did not. I wasn’t asked to first of all, but more importantly, I didn’t assume knee-jerk that this was my role… With person B I did an even better job of listening. It allowed her comfort in getting her story out in different fragments, and time to collect her thoughts”.
My input this morning: choose wisely, choose how you spend your time and who you spend it with. Think: what is my Win, what is my benefit in this or that interaction. Yesterday you practiced, that was the benefit.
My experience hearing my mother vent for hours was a miserable, miserable experience. To this very day, I get tired very quickly hearing another person vent. Even one venting for a short time. I suppose it is necessary to listen to your partner vent, at times, in moderation, but what a waste of time it is to just be there when another person vents. I like “listening” here because I can stop reading anytime, and people here ask for advice, for help. Most importantly, I can learn, learning is my benefit.
Regarding you thinking of yourself “higher and above others”, I noticed that tendency. I used to feel that way as well, sometimes I still do. I used to feel either way less than others or superior to others. The longer I am in the process, the more I feel equal, not all the time, but more and more so, most of the time, I’d say.
anita
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