Home→Forums→Emotional Mastery→Self Trust and More
- This topic has 1,008 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 4 months ago by Zeeza.
-
AuthorPosts
-
December 16, 2019 at 1:26 pm #327987AnonymousGuest
You are welcome, Cali Chica. Glad you had a good weekend and I appreciate the update. I am fine and am looking forward to read more from you when you have the time and the mental space.
anita
December 17, 2019 at 7:36 am #328111Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good morning. Bad headache today – combination of the stress plus the longer hours at work – but you know what?! My last day is Dec. 31! Hurray!
Regardless of what we do – I will be done with this draining job, at least I can celebrate that!
Here are some updates:
My husband was feeling uneasy, as you know, and did feel in a way that we “jumped the gun” in giving notice to his job. They have been extremely supportive of the decision (his boss the chairman) and sad to see him go. He felt last week a palpable discomfort. We decided with my in laws this weekend that the best thing to do is give some time. This is not the sort of decision to make in a hasty state when you don’t feel entirely prepared. You know, it may take an extra day or week – whatever it is, but time is time.
Anyway, today my husband went to his chairman and was completely honest about his hesitations about moving, and perhaps interest to stay, etc. He was happy to hear this (the chairman and said a few things). He can take his time to make his choice, and if he decides SD and is not happy there – he can come back anytime, he will be welcomed back and has a job waiting for him.
The great thing about his position here in nyc is that this chairman has always been great, sure the intricacies of the job are not all dependent on him…
I am glad for this update – and it will put my husband at ease too
December 17, 2019 at 8:14 am #328117AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
The last day being Dec 31 means you already gave your notice and you will not be employed Jan 1?
If so, this is wonderful! You definitely need a break, a different kind of life starting at the very beginning of 2020. Sometimes I still look at numbers for meaning (not a divine meaning, mind you), two 2s in 2020, a 2nd chance perhaps, a second beginning in life, a second birth of sorts.
And your husband, will he continue working at his current job for now, even though he gave his notice??
anita
December 17, 2019 at 8:18 am #328119Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
No, I will not be employed on Jan 1 2020!!
Yes, I have a deep down good feeling for 2020 – the number feels innately beautiful to me, and yes 2’s – a new start, team work for 2’s.
My husband already has given notice and his last day is Jan 31. If he decides to stay – then he shall continue.
We will continue the conversations in the meantime!
How are you Anita? What is new?
December 17, 2019 at 8:24 am #328129AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
And a team of 2, an inner circle of 2, I like it. I knew that he gave his notice, but didn’t know if the notice holds, so it doesn’t, he can continue to work Feb 1 if he wants to.
I can imagine you free in Manhattan, to do as you wish anytime of the day, how exciting!
I am fine, gray and dreary here, evening arrives on days when morning didn’t happen yet. A bit bored. Still don’t know about that something-new I mentioned to you before.
“continue the conversation”- please do, if you want to, if you can. Hope your head stops hurting!
anita
December 17, 2019 at 9:08 am #328135Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
How exciting! Yes, indeed. This break will be very much a breath of fresh (cold!) air! I am not getting to worried about my plan for after January!
Yes, I wonder what that new is for you – maybe 2020 will bring some insight about it…
Continue the conversation I shall, head does hurt – but I will type what I can.
So, the conversation with his parents went very well as expected. They were very unbiased and supportive, and fantastic listeners (as always). The thesis of the weekend was that there needs to be time. Time is essential – and give it time so you can assess. Often you never know the answer, but it is always worth giving yourself more space to analyze as much as you can – in a career oriented situation.
So that is what we did, we got some more time. I am very appreciative of his chairman’s response to my husband – very reassuring.
So what’s more…
I thought a lot about the conversations about my sister over the weekend. I know I can’t “blame” her for my behavior when I am around her – but I do know that I have to accept the fact of: we were raised in a household of sickness, our interaction is based on sickness. There is resentment and anger within each one of us.
I also learned, from our conversations – that her manner of communication is a lot more hidden than mine. This elucidated the reason why I would end up feeling so uneasy and uncomfortable many times. Like being bit, but then instantly being told that the puppy is a sweet dog from the shelter, don’t get angry at it.
So then not only do you feel guilty for being upset/angry – you invalidate your own feelings of unease. Double whammy –> double distress.
I know she can not be apart of my inner circle. I know my distance will create alarm in her. I also know it will create alarm in me.
You made a note about the concept of “primal love.” And how it originates from primitive, preverbal, infant. I think about what you said – how often this sort of thing can be an obstacle.
I think about the “love” and attachment I had for my mother – instant of course as a newborn, and evolving as I grew with her. It wasn’t like I ever woke up one day and asked myself: “do I love my mother?” No! I would have said of course!!
Similarly, I didn’t give my relationship with my sister much of an “option” from my own end, as you know.
I do hope to establish a good balance of “closeness with boundaries” — but I do know it will go through some growing pains prior of gaps, space, and change.
I think I have in my life, communicated a lot, likely over-communicated many times — not to the right source. As in, am I explaining things to someone that has the capacity to understand? I think it is important going into 2020 as an adult (not child) to know that staying strong by your goals (no not career and growth – but health and peace) means truly not worrying what the other person thinks. Some of the strongest most “stable” people in my life do a good job of just simply saying “no!” and nothing more…
- This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by Cali Chica.
December 17, 2019 at 9:57 am #328147AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
Your parents in law sound wonderful, being great listeners, kind and wise, what a valuable resource to have!
I wonder what new insight and new understanding 2020 will bring to me, and to you. The understanding you expressed regarding your sister reads perfectly perfect, to me, from “we were raised in a household of sickness” to “I know my distance will create alarm in her. I also know it will create alarm in me”.
Let’s look at what you wrote: “our interaction is based on sickness. There is resentment and anger within each one of us”
Also, you wrote that her hidden manner of communication with you is the reason why you feel “uneasy and uncomfortable many times”, doubly distressed- angry and guilty for feeling angry, invalidated.
All very well said, very accurate, excellent job on your part.
Then you talked about primal love and here I am confused. You wrote that you had that kind of love for your mother, “instant of course as a newborn”, I agree. But then you wrote that this primal love evolved (“evolving as I grew with her”)- primal love does not evolve. It stays the same. If a child grows up to have an honest, healthy relationship with her mother, then a different kind of love is added to the primary love.
You wrote: “I do hope to establish a good balance of ‘closeness with boundaries’, suggesting that you will not over-communicate to her what she doesn’t have “the capacity to understand”, to not worry what she thinks, t say ‘no!’ to her.
I don’t think it’s going to work. I will explain: what I wrote to you earlier in that primary-love post is that truly, better keep the relationship with her primal, pre-verbal. I don’t mean that you no longer speak to her, articulating words. What I mean by it is that honest, healthy communication with her is not possible. It is not possible because like you wrote yourself: “our interaction is based on sickness. There is resentment and anger within each one of us”.
Well, if it is based on sickness, it is not healthy. And if she is angry at you, then she will sometimes intend to hurt you, aka bite you. How can this possibly be healthy.
If you intend to heal this relationship, it will take no less than the two of you being motivated to do so, then attending professional family psychotherapy for a long time, the two of you attending sessions together. You can’t heal this relationship by yourself, can’t do that.
What I suggested in my earlier post to you is to keep the relationship primal, meaning, you view your closeness with her as primal, something that is there and will never change, a closeness that doesn’t require changing of any kind, including healing. It will always be there, that primal love/ primal closeness. Have no ambitions to create a better, honest communication between the two of you. Let it go, let go of any such hopes, intentions and hopes.
It will take no less than a miracle to add an honest, healthy closeness to this primal closeness. So don’t try. See her and interact with her as if indeed, you are interacting with a delightful puppy that will bite and act in hidden ways sometimes. If you see her and interact with her as that puppy, her bite will not hurt anymore because it’s a small puppy’s bite, a nibbling of some sort, no blood, no bruising.
(If you hope for more with her, her bite will feel, as it has felt, like the bite of a big dog, and that does draw blood and leave bruises).
anita
December 17, 2019 at 11:31 am #328163Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Have no ambitions to create a better, honest communication between the two of you. Let it go, let go of any such hopes, intentions and hopes.
This is my biggest take home here. Thank you for wording it this way, and directly. I understand completely. I also understand the later point about how, when you no longer have this expectation, the bites become more like nibbles.
Makes perfect perfect sense. I will let that sink in…
I will head home in 2 hours and rest my head, hot tea, and maybe this weekend a massage! Let’s continue some more tomorrow – stay warm in the dreary weather. I have good thoughts about 2020 ahead!
December 17, 2019 at 1:10 pm #328171AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
You are welcome. I figure (thought about it further on my walk today), keep the relationship with your sister primal, meaning emotional. Express to her affection any time you feel it, a sincere smile, an affectionate gesture, and minimize thoughts- exchange. Spend time with her talking little, keep it superficial on the cerebral level. Let her do her cerebral exchange with other people and limit your relationship with her to the heart, pre-verbal, pre-thought. Like with a puppy.
It is not that she is not intelligent enough for you to converse with, it’s that it is not a good idea to do so, not for you and not for her.
I hope you rest today and enjoy that hot tea, and a massage this weekend. I’ll be here tomorrow.
anita
December 18, 2019 at 7:12 am #328385Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good day!
I read your last post and it reads perfectly to me. I sum it up in this:
have fun, but don’t get too deep
It is best for her and I both, win-win. Looking back when I got too deep, with her feelings about friends or this or that – I would take on this extra stress which is unnecessary and unhealthy – and lose-lose. I will no longer do that.
Enjoy time with the puppy, know it may bite – but know that when you are doing playing with the puppy, it is okay to walk away and say see ya later!
———-
Back to the move aspect of things. So now we don’t have as much pressure of “we already told his job here we are moving so that’s that”
We will spend the next week or 2 (given holidays are here there’s a lot of other things going on) to really let it all sink in. It will truly be a difficult decision to make, and there are a lot of pros to each side.
I wonder how we will come to a conclusion!! I truly do!
December 18, 2019 at 8:33 am #328397AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
“have fun, but don’t get too deep”- I say don’t get deep at all, no depth at all regarding insight into childhood and her relationships. A bit deep is too deep. Like I wrote to you before, best for her is to keep her job, to keep her employment, being able to make money and live independently, paying her own rent and so forth. This is her # 1 resource, materially and mentally.
Her relationships with people, anyone and everyone, that will continue to be problematic for a long, long time. You can’t fix that. You can only get hurt trying to fix that.
Regarding the possible move, the “lot of pros to each side”, let me know if and when you want my input (I figure you probably need time off from trying to decide, being you are still working and busy. Maybe better postpone considering the two options for next year).
anita
December 18, 2019 at 9:26 am #328413Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
A few key points I would like to re-highlight for myself:
1) any deep is too deep. yes
2) her relationships with others will remain problematic for a long time. yes
AND it is not my job or duty to fix them, nor is it POSSIBLE. attempting to do so is a lose-lose scenario
———
I am open to hearing your input, would love to hear it, about the move. I will let you begin (knowing what you know so far about the 2 options) and I will add and continue the convo 🙂
December 18, 2019 at 10:02 am #328419AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
Okay then, I will begin with the emotional part:
1. It takes a whole lot of work, time and money, to accomplish a permanent move (unlike a visit) across the country.
2. Excluding times of being moved by a spirit of youth and adventure, we feel comfort in what is familiar to us (People, Place, Routine), and we feel anxious when anticipating the loss of what is familiar to us.
3. We humans, like all other animals, are motivated primarily to avoid pain in all its forms (discomfort, anxiety, work that is too difficult, etc.), and to seek pleasure.
— so it would take your familiar, nyc- being very distressing in order to be motivated to move away from it. And/ or it will take what is not familiar, SD- to be viewed as very pleasurable/rewarding in order to be motivated to move there.
As is now,
– husband believes his workplace is not that distressing and may get better.
– you and husband enjoy nyc.
– you and husband enjoy and value his parents and would not like to cause them the discomfort of moving out of their familiarity.
– husband prefers a salaried position which he has in nyc and is uncomfortable otherwise. Although SD offered an increase of two years of salaried position, from the previous one year, two years is not that great of an incentive.
– your employment possibilities in nyc are no less than in SD, maybe more.
All in all, emotional considerations lead me to believe that a move out of nyc is not likely. Says I.
anita
December 18, 2019 at 11:22 am #328437Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I agree entirely, entirely.
Especially the aspects of family.
The concept of San Diego is as follows. My husband will be salaried for the first year. If he “meets his overhead costs” he gets a percentage of the profits after that. After that year it is the private model of eat what you kill as we discussed. This can be anxiety provoking and leads to the idea of having to make sure you are busy enough of course. Whereas in this NY job, he has a steady flow of patients coming in, and will always have the base salary. He too here can make a bonus each year if he goes above a certain overhead as well. Slightly similar in the productivity bonus aspect.
Another part of SD is that the other person who does exactly what my husband does – is now backing off a little from practice. Not retirement but approaching that. He stated he is going to lessen his hours, and give my husband the overflow of patients he has, as he has a long waiting time already. That would be beneficial for my husband as it seems he wouldn’t have trouble being busy day 1. But of course you never know – and that is the whole point of moving somewhere new – you are starting fresh!
So that goes along with the emotional aspect of things – going somewhere new and starting from scratch — versus continuing what is known and stable.
Next point, we have decided that if and when we have kids, I will work part time. This would be possible in both environments, and my job opportunities are slightly better in nyc (more because it is a bigger city and more hospitals of course, and just more of everything). So therefore we would be relying more on his income. So the question comes in to play – would it be better in that sense to stay in a place where there is that stable guaranteed salary long term. Or on the flip side, it doesn’t seem like SD would be that difficult to get busy anyway – but of course more of an unknown. That is the other point that we discuss often.
December 18, 2019 at 12:03 pm #328441AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
The SD option has a few Ifs: if he meets his overhead costs, if he kills enough to eat enough (“the private model of eat what you kill”), if the somewhat-retiring doctor’s plan to back off from practice doesn’t change.
These ifs may be okay for some people but not for others. Imagine your husband having a day with only one patient, when the plan calls for three, how many white hairs are added to his head? One day spent being anxious is a long, long time. Even low-level worry, like a persistent itch, adds up.
You want a husband who is as calm as possible, a calm father to your planned children. The tidy list of pros and cons is a list on a two dimensional medium, a paper, but the man, he lives in a three dimensional medium where time has to be considered in connection to anxiety:
-on paper, you write if X happens (ex.: other doctor stays as busy), then we will do Y (whatever it may be), but in the 3D medium of life, X happens and there is that long, long space of time that nothing happens. There is no immediate, quick jump from X to Y. Within that time, for many people, white hairs grow and the heart and brain grow heavier and heavier.
anita
-
AuthorPosts