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July 17, 2019 at 7:06 am #303703Cali ChicaParticipant
Dear Anita,
The turning point keeps happening!
Just like you said a few weeks ago: That I’ve made it around the bend.
Well now, I made it around the bend, and continue to weave in and out of the next turns. Progress – true progress!
I feel it, I feel the shift, and most importantly: the calmness and centeredness – if thats a word
You know what else? And I have a feeling that you do:
Our spouses pick up on our energy tremendously, especially if you have an attentive, intuitive spouse.
I noticed how quickly my spouse was able to go from distressed to calm, because I carried calm into the home.
How quickly he was to go from feeling stressed, to more relaxed, to want to talk to me freely – and have a release himself. Have you had similar experiences?
This stuff really works doesn’t it?
July 17, 2019 at 7:30 am #303707AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
You have made it around the bend, the turning point progress is happening, you are making it happen. And yes, this stuff really works.
Your best investment in your well being is investing in your relationship with your husband, because you are one unit, one financial unit, you live together, have no plans to ever live apart, you are tied together in this life. There is no other-than- you person in your life more important to you.
Benefit him and you benefit yourself. Work with him, he is the person who is there at the turning point, your progress depends on your relationship with him.
Like I wrote to you before, in my first real psychotherapy in 2011, the therapist first work with me was working on making my then new and troubled relationship work, that was first. I wouldn’t be here communicating with you if my relationship wasn’t good, if I didn’t do my best in it.
anita
July 17, 2019 at 7:40 am #303709Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
This gave me tears. Softness and tenderness for your reply.
I feel it, and how recently I felt that it was difficult for me to even have a glimpse of true emotion. How frustrated I was.
The glimpse is here.
Yes, as we say: herein lies the real work.
Benefit him and you benefit yourself
I see what you mean by this now, finally. Yes, I do.
July 17, 2019 at 7:42 am #303711Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Re-reading your post, I want you to elaborate on the following line, if you will:
I wouldn’t be here communicating with you if my relationship wasn’t good, if I didn’t do my best in it.
July 17, 2019 at 8:09 am #303715AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
If I didn’t do my best in it, the relationship would have ended a long time ago, back in 2011. That would have meant, considering my life circumstances at the time, that I would have moved back to living with my mother (after being many thousands of miles away from her for most of my life).
I wouldn’t have proceeded with the quality psychotherapy of 2011-2013, wouldn’t have learned the principles of healing, wouldn’t have started the healing process, would have lived with my mother, continuing the psychiatric drugs I was on, in the high doses I was on (free from any and all psych drugs since Oct 2013).. and I assure you, I wouldn’t be on this website healing and encouraging healing best I can.
You and I, separately, failed in our relationships with our mothers and suffered emotional injury (no fault of our own). We have to succeed in another relationship so to heal from that damage. The damage was created in the context of a bad relationship, a damaging relationship. Healing has to be done in the context of a new relationship, a healing relationship.
anita
July 17, 2019 at 8:15 am #303717Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
The damage was created in the context of a bad relationship, a damaging relationship. Healing has to be done in the context of a new relationship, a healing relationship.
I have read this from you a few times now, and I am starting to get a glimpse of what it means – as I am at that turning point. I will reflect on this and let it sink in. Look forward to writing more later today about my reflections.
July 18, 2019 at 3:05 pm #303843Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I have reflected on what we have spoken about over the last two days plenty. One thing came to my mind this morning, it’s about maturity. My mother never differentiated the meaning of immature versus mature. Of course I did not expect her to out right we explain the definition of both or give examples. But most importantly, she never ever gave my sister and I are true example of what maturity is. Of course! She was stuck in a childlike state throwing tantrums here in there when anything didn’t go under her own power.
This other strange but interesting thought this morning after I woke up. I thought about how I am constantly seeking out word, often seeking individuals who are not important to me because in essence I am seeking my mother’s love. I thought, I wonder if my own mother was seeking her mothers love is well. Her mother was troubled, not very involved in raising her given that she had five older siblings, struggled with mental health her whole life, in an out of treatment. Not to say that it matters, and not to say that it really even change is what I am going to now, but an interesting thought none the less.
I was on the subway this morning after these thoughts, headed to work. On the subway there was a young mom, with four children. She was very unkempt and look like an individual, and I apologize if I am being judge mental, but very overwhelmed with children and perhaps not at the emotional mature state to have them. Her youngest child was in a stroller, and the second youngest looked about two years old. A beautiful young boy with curly hair, bouncy curls that you just want to touch. Every time to Subway would make a complete stop, he would be fungal over the seat and fall on the floor. The mother would glance at her phone for a second, and go back to what she was doing on her phone. Each and every time the child would try to crawl back into his mother’s lap crying, looking at her eyes for some sympathy. He wouldn’t receive it. I would notice his face go from a sad frown, to quickly a happy smile as he would start kissing his mom again. He would giggle, and she would kiss him back and then they would play for a few minutes. Then again, the same scenario long down, this time almost hitting his head. Rising back up.
I have course was at first very disturbed by the situation, this poor child, but I also saw that he was so happy. The point of the story is that this child was capable of being so happy no matter what, it’s natural state was not to hate his natural state was to love. His natural state was to love his mother above all, no matter what, no matter what was happening to him.
I looked at this child and his smiling face, kissing his mom all over her face, so happy to be near her. And I thought about how much it takes to traumatize a child, this child, similar to my sweet little dog, has happiness and affection and sweetness as a baseline state, to take that away from a child must take so much hatred. Our mothers are filled with so much evil and hatred and animosity that they would take such a sweet young child and turn them into a negative creature. And it also reminded me about exercise,All the trauma that I have gone through has started much earlier than I recall. Our exercises help me think about that. And observing children has helped me think about that. The only job for a mother is to be attentive and to give love. I am not saying that this is an easy job or a simple one. But first in for most mother needs to give love to a child. If she is unable to do that, she has no business being a mother. I am not judging the mother on the subway saying she’s not giving him love, I am strictly talking about my mother, and perhaps yours. Saying that the most primitive state their job is to provide us love, and they failed at that, the result of this is exactly what we go through each and every day. And what we talked about on here.
July 18, 2019 at 3:30 pm #303847Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Oh my I add. Your entire portion about how your first therapist, or your first psychotherapy sessions involved focusing on your marriage. It was a choice of your psychotherapist to build that unit of your husband and yourself first and foremost. If I had read this I’m here six months ago, which I think I might have, it wouldn’t have occurred to me for this to be so intuitive. I would’ve thought, that is an interesting approach. However, now I don’t see this as interesting, I see this as imperative. As you say, in order for us to heal, we must heal in the context of a loving and nurturing, and healing relationship. We are social beings aren’t we – as you also say. (Clearly your words have so much meaning to me!). I think about it now, myself walking into the office of a therapist, or not even a therapist, into the office of a mentor, I am an elder that is trustworthy, perhaps like in the old days the older woman that everyone went to with their problems, that healer tight. I would tell her my worries, and let her know my background. I would then go on and tell her about my husband, and the troubles we have been having in the last year and a half of so of marriage, many of which are outside of us, but most of which have to do with my behavior. Actually, I digress, none of these issues of ours are outside of myself, they are ingrained in my psyche given my upbringing. I am not taking full blame, I am just stating the obvious.
So this healer woman, I can imagine, I can imagine her saying it right now:
Dear Cali Chica,Front of you you have a man, a nice man, upright man, and honest man, and a man that listens. Oh how difficult it is to find a man that listens! And she chuckles. Oh if you only knew how difficult it was to find a man that listens my young thing. You have a whole life ahead of you, it may not seem like that sometimes. But let me assure you you do. To have someone to listen to you through the thick and thin is lucky. Quite lucky you are. Do not take it vantage of this, but appreciate it. Utilize it. Utilize this person as your sounding board, not your punching bag. Someone who you can converse with, and that will help you on your path and your journey. This person will be your everything. I know you did not come to me just to speak about your husband but I am focusing on him to let you know that: what you get out of your life will have everything to do with how much you put into this relationship. The end.
July 18, 2019 at 4:50 pm #303853AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I am glad to read from you and am looking forward to attentively read your two recent posts first thing tomorrow morning and reply then.
anita
July 19, 2019 at 7:55 am #303931AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
“I looked at this child and his smiling face, kissing his mom all over her face”- evolution had it that puppies and babies, animal/ human young, look cute for this purpose: so that the mother will look at their cuteness and want to touch them affectionately and take care of them lovingly (“A beautiful young boy with curly hair, bouncy curls that you just want to touch“).
Nature has given this boy his looks for the purpose of him attracting the loving attention of his mother. In addition to his looks, nature gave him the behavior aimed at the same: attracting the loving attention of his mother (“kissing his mom all over her face”).
How interesting, it occurred to me the parallel between this boy and you. When he fell on the floor, his reaction was to “crawl back into his mother’s lap crying, looking at her eyes for some sympathy. He wouldn’t receive it. I notice his face go from a sad frown, to quickly a happy smile as he would start kissing is mom again. He would giggle, and she would kiss him back… Then again, the same scenario.. Rising back up;”
– first he cried, just like you did, so to get his mother’s sympathy, but it didn’t work, so he smiled instead, and giggled. But not because he was happy but because he is still trying to get her loving attention, in a different way, because crying didn’t do it.
First Cali Chica cried, but it didn’t work, no sympathy from her mother (she told you all you ever did is cry, since you were born..), so Cali Chica giggles, acts happy, makes friends, is engaging, charming to people so to get her mother’s loving attention, bringing friends home, pleasing her mother who values making friends so highly.
“I wonder if my own mother was seeking her mother’s love as well”- no doubt she did, just like the boy you observed, looking cute and reaching out to her mother with love again and again, crying, trying to look cute, and she is indeed “stuck in a childlike”, still trying to . She still tries to … look cute and act cute in that sickening ways you/ your sister described, that eerie quality of childlike voice, showing off her outfits, like a little girl. In Morocco, wearing the bright red lipstick and looking insane because in her fifties, she acts like a little girl playing with lipstick.
“Our mothers are filled with so much evil and hatred and animosity”- when angry and abusive, yes they are. At other times they are overgrown little girls doing a lot of damage because they are not aware they are powerful over the true little girls in their lives, their daughters. Similar to the guy in Mice and Men whose mental abilities were that of a small child but his body was that of a powerful adult man, and so he killed a woman unintentionally, not aware that trying to quiet her with his powerful hold can kill her.
Your mother stuck in her childhood, not at all qualified to be a mother, no doubt. Not qualified except for her ability to get pregnant and her ability to prepare food and change diapers and such.
I will wait for your reply to what I wrote so far, when you are ready.
anita
July 19, 2019 at 8:36 am #303941Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I like how you point out the concept of this overgrown girl. I notice this mother in the subway yesterday, seemingly an overgrown girl herself. Looking at videos on her phone laughing out loud without shame, not noticing her child flip back and forth, almost hurting his head severely. In her own little world.
I think about how I was tricked for so long because my mother was SOOO attentive. Exact opposite of the scenario above. Yet, it doesn’t make her any less toxic – and it does NOT make her loving. This is the key thing I have learned over the past year.
It is easy to be tricked into thinking people are “loving” genuinely. But it is often a front, that innocent people buy into.
I am not saying this to be vindictive or negative – but more realistic.
See I was tricked by my mothers concern and attentiveness. Her interest, her everything. Tricked in the sense that it was all an illusion feigning as love. I notice how I went to others wanting this love, probably knowing deep down inside I wasn’t fulfilled or satisfied.
Always looking , always searching. Mother let me bring you a flower, oh no you don’t like it? How about this? How about this friend, how about that one? Okay, how about this achievement?
How about this future husband?
Oh still not happy —hmmm I am starting to not feel so great – I am defeated. sigh
I am still trying though for mother, how could I not- I must – I must I felt.
There has to be a way – oh there has to be.
And the reality:
There isn’t. Some things you just have to accept. And then you move forward and adjust your life.
July 19, 2019 at 9:40 am #303947AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
“I was tricked for so long because my mother was SOOO attentive… It is easy to be tricked into thinking people are ‘loving’ genuinely. But it is often a front, that innocent people buy into… I was tricked by my mother’s concern and attentiveness… Tricked in the sense that it was all an illusion feigning as love”-
– your brain tricked you to believe she loved you because a child cannot survive aware that her mother doesn’t love her. So the child makes believe her mother loves her, takes any possible evidence of love .. as love. The boy in the subway will make believe his mother loves him because she paid him a moment of attention, and he will dismiss the evidence of her being so inattentive to him that he hurt his head, even if he gets hurt badly.
It is the child’s brain that tricks the child for the purpose of survival.
My Reality: my mother didn’t love me. I made believe that she did.
My Reality: my mother didn’t expect me to give her a good life, materially, once I was an adult (she didn’t value me as capable of helping her). I made believe it was her expectation because I needed to believe that she does value me, at least projected into the future.
Funny almost, she didn’t believe in me as someone capable of helping her in any way, shape or form. So she helped herself to me, that is, she used me to … express herself, to blow off steam.
anita
July 19, 2019 at 9:43 am #303951Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Your mother didn’t believe you as someone capable of helping her, so essentially she used you as a punching bag. One, because of her “anger and annoyance” at feeling you are incapable (a delusion) and two, because of her internal distress and insecurity.
She likely not only used you as a punching bag to deflect her own issues and anxieties, but also the “issue” she had with having a daughter who was “not good enough or capable” enough for her.
My sister and I have had this two fold treatment. Often unpredictable – esp for me given that I was her “savior” in one second and kicked to the curb as “incapable” the next.
Seeing now, that it was all the same. You can not satiate an insatiable being with no concept of reality.
July 19, 2019 at 9:50 am #303953AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I will never know the exact thoughts my mother had, it is not like she was honest with me. But the problem with us as adults, retroactively evaluating our parents is how our brain tricked us, naturally, to make believe what was not true to reality. The role of savior, that was how my mind tricked me, so to see value in myself/ to see her seeing value in me.
Do you believe that your savior role was a trick of your mind and/ or do you think she really did see you as her savior?
anita
July 19, 2019 at 10:10 am #303965Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I know that the savior role was not a trick of my mind, as I recall seeing my mother in the most raw and vulnerable moments truly asking for help. Help me, save me, you can do it, you’re my daughter – I have faith in you.
I also know that my non-savior role/not being good enough was not a trick of my mind.
I see it as a childish immature person. When they are hungry they scream out IM HUNGRY. throwing fists on the floor, a tantrum.
you give them broccoli, then something else, they throw it at you. you say I thought you were hungry? they say NO I AM NOT HUNGRY!!
they often don’t know what they want, they just know they are distressed, screaming out for help – but unable to gauge what will truly help – like a child – relying on the adult being for comfort, satiation, and honestly – everything.
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