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February 20, 2023 at 4:33 am #415660frozenfirefliesParticipant
@Tee – I agree with you that there’s definitely an imbalance in our dynamics when my husband has these kind of moods. He has some type of chronic pain and this can be a real trigger for him to be cynical.
This is something I wrote on a note in my phone right after it happened, so I couldn’t forget the course of our conversation:
Our oldest child throws clothes from a drawer on the bedroom floor.
My husband picks them up, muttering: “That hurts my back!”
I’m busy dressing our youngest after a bath and respond: “I could have done it!”
“Yeah, but you often leave things,” he says.
Me: “When my head gets too crowded by thoughts, yes…”
Him: “There you go with your excuses.”
It ends with me saying: “But I would have done it now, because you were just saying it! I wouldn’t have missed that.”Here, I felt an unfair dissatisfaction towards me that made me feel totally powerless.
He becomes such a different person when this mood strikes, and I’m unable to snap him out of it. You’re right, it’s unacceptable. Although I don’t believe I deserve it, it’s problematic that I get very anxious when he is angry and try to maintain “control” by attempting to placate him or try to make him see that “I didn’t mean to do anything wrong”. Unfortunately, walking away is very hard for me when we’re arguing because it goes directly against my instinct to pursue.
February 20, 2023 at 9:44 am #415663TeeParticipantDear frozenfireflies,
I get it that it’s hard for you because it seems that when your husband is upset and critical with you, it triggers the fear of abandonment:
With our conflict styles, itâs typically my husband who will be unhappy/withdrawing and myself who is the pursuer, desperately trying to set things right and create a sense of harmony. This makes it extremely hard for me to walk away to pause a conflict, because I become very clingy when I sense this âthreatâ. I think my husbandâs way of handling conflict triggers something visceral inside me that signals danger to me. Iâd literally beg him to stay and âtalk things outâ.
Somehow Iâm just desperate for closeness.
Would you that abandonment is what you’re fearing the most?
Since you’re not able to set boundaries (e.g. tell him you’ll take a time-out and go to the other room until he calms down), this dynamic will likely continue, because your husband isn’t really willing to do much about it. He is “aware” that he could be more loving and gentle, but he doesn’t want to do anything about it:
he fully agrees with me when we are both calm. He knows he should be more loving and gentle and not so armoured so quickly. But this hasnât yet translated into a different kind of behaviour. … There are many practices out there that can help, but itâs always time, money, etc⌠You can guess all the reasons. He is not against reading the book at all, itâs just about carving out that time to read.”
You also said that whenever you try applying any of the mindfulness techniques, he resists:
I have asked him a few times to co-regulate when we were getting too agitated over something, to hold my hands and just breathe together, but he didnât want to do that at all. And when I use the NC approach and try to observe and name his feelings/needs, he just gets annoyed by me.
So in practice, he isn’t interested in changing his habits, and I think that unfortunately he won’t be interested as long as you’re allowing it and always trying to placate him.
A separate, but related problem is his own trauma and perhaps a feeling of powerlessness and frustration about his sister: I know that my husband has struggled with bullying as a child, and that applies to myself too. I also know that my husband has a toxic sister, who has a history lying, gaslighting, manipulation, etc.
He also seems powerless at his work place: “He struggles with burnout in different areas â work-related, parental and relationship burnout. He feels he doesnât get enough time to practice basic self-care. His job doesnât give him any satisfaction and demands a lot of him“.
So a lot of demands on him, and he feels like he can’t say No to people. He also was quick to start picking up clothes after your oldest son, instead of perhaps telling him not to do that? (I don’t know how old your son is and if it’s applicable?) Specially since his back hurts…
It’s like he can’t say No and often feels powerless in life. And then he takes out his frustration on you, instead of dealing with the real cause of his frustration. You’re a little bit of a (verbal) punching bag for him, to let out steam…
What do you say? Does this resonate?
February 21, 2023 at 8:28 am #415675HelcatParticipantHi Frozenfireflies
It’s good to hear that in some circumstances that your husband is understanding and acknowledges his mistakes.
I would agree with you his history has caused some difficulties with his communication style. He lived that way for 30 years. It is going to take some time to undo.
For my husband it took 6 years of work throughout our relationship to develop a healthier communication style. It honestly takes time.
I don’t necessarily agree that your husband isn’t interested in changing. He might simply not know how or have sufficient emotional control. Like how you have difficulties taking a break in these situations. I agree that he could benefit from therapy.
I can understand how his behaviour feels dangerous and is a trigger for you. It doesn’t sound to me like you are in the wrong at all
There is a question that my therapist used to ask me constantly. Now I will ask you the same question. When is the first time you remember feeling similar emotions of danger and the need to pursue in your life?
I can understand why you feel hurt in your example of your recent example. He was criticising you. I’ll add that it is a very common criticism in relationships.
Yesterday, I had a massive energy bill. My husband asked me to put the heating on through winter and I did as he asked despite my preference being to save money. I was upset by the energy bill. I said this is because you wanted the heating on all the time. Why don’t you wear layers? He said he does and still gets cold and was a little flustered. We cuddled after.
Yesterday, I was cleaning the shower and my husband came along. My husband tried to dissuade me from cleaning the shower. He asked why I was cleaning it and said that I would hurt myself. I said I have to do it because no one else will. He said he cleans everything else around here. I said you asked, I just answered in a sassy way. He joked know your butt is right there. I said you can kick it just be gentle.
These are common small squabbles that don’t really mean anything if you have a healthier relationship. I think the difference in your example is that your husband doubles down when you defend yourself against criticism. It sounds like there’s some emotional pain carried around on both sides.
I can understand why it feels like he’s blaming you and criticising your character. The truth is that there’s nothing wrong with your character. You forget things sometimes. People who have higher standards typically complain if things aren’t to their liking. But it doesn’t mean that you are doing anything wrong. He is having difficulty with his own feelings because of his own standards.
I would suggest that your husband’s back pain is also a factor in his communication difficulties too. It’s not right, but it does make sense. I know I have experienced that too.
February 22, 2023 at 4:39 am #415691frozenfirefliesParticipant@Tee – yes, I agree that my husband is avoiding “the work”. You only get so far with ideas. He isn’t doing enough to implement. Because of my own struggles I’m currently in psychomotor therapy, because talk therapy has not worked well for me at all. I’ve only been with this new therapist for a few sessions but I have high hopes. This will hopefully teach me to stay more regulated and not get into this abandonment trap of anxiety.
My husband is indeed someone who really can’t say no very well. He has a real history of taking responsibility, to his own detriment even. Part of the problem here is that I think his standards are a bit too high and he doesn’t have enough trust. “No one does a good job if I don’t step up” – that almost seems to be his mantra, whether he realises it or not. It would really serve him well to work through his own past issues that are holding a grip over his present life.
Our son is 4 years old, and yes, it would have been better to start off by saying: “Can you please put them back?” Or try to encourage him not to throw them in the first place. Because that approach often takes a bit longer with kids it can be something we are both guilty of when rushed, just choosing the quick route of stepping in and doing it ourselves.
February 22, 2023 at 4:56 am #415692frozenfirefliesParticipant@Helcat – out of interest, was your husband in therapy at all as part of those 6 years? Or did he have any guidance from frameworks/books/etc. It’s a long time, good for him to be so dedicated!
I have been thinking that my attachment style might not be so secure after all. I do mostly feel secure except for when this conflict arises, it’s like I suddenly regress to an anxious attachment style! And his’ becomes avoidant. Outside of that, I don’t find myself being needy or anxious about us at all. It’s odd how this works.
That’s an intriguing question from your therapist. I’m going to have to sit and really think about it, because nothing comes to mind right away.
Because of how my husband is with conflict, I think I often avoid disagreements in the first place. It’s just not worth it to me. With your example of the energy bill, it could be similar here – I’m always feeling warm so I have very little need of the heating being on. But for my husband (he works from home) it’s different, as he’s much colder physically. If I feel unhappy about something like the energy bill or other financial things, unless it’s something very worrying like literally gambling, I wouldn’t even feel like saying anything.
You’re right, I can’t really defend myself at all against his criticism because it just comes right back at me. He is extremely armoured in such situations. What frustrates me most is that I have learnt all the “best practices” of communicating nonviolently, such as using “I…” statements rather than “You…” I don’t name call, I don’t do character attacks, I don’t swear at him and yet he still feels some kind of pull to this aggressive communication style when there’s conflict.
February 22, 2023 at 5:21 am #415693HelcatParticipantHi Frozenfireflies
No, he didn’t pursue therapy. I’m not sure if he read books or other resources about the subject. I did occasionally send him link to websites that I personally found helpful. He does have some psychological training though as he used to be a therapist a while ago. It’s interesting to learn that even people with psychological training can experience these difficulties. So imagine how hard it is for someone without training.
I got that impression from you that you try and avoid disagreements because of his reactions. From my perspective it seems like he might be the one voicing concerns more frequently. Like he did the other day. Unlike you, he doesn’t feel afraid of how you will react.
Have you always avoided confrontation in all of your relationships? Or is it something that occurred with your husband only?
I think you did a really good job of standing up for yourself when he was critical. You didn’t back down after he tried to shut you down. It sounds like standing up for yourself that second time was more successful as seemingly he didn’t say anything after that?
I can see how much effort you have put into maintaining healthy standards of communication. I hope that he learns from your good example.
Wishing you all the best! đ
February 22, 2023 at 10:29 pm #415699TeeParticipantDear frozenfireflies,
Because of my own struggles Iâm currently in psychomotor therapy, because talk therapy has not worked well for me at all. Iâve only been with this new therapist for a few sessions but I have high hopes.
It’s great that you’re currently in therapy and that you like your new therapist!
This will hopefully teach me to stay more regulated and not get into this abandonment trap of anxiety.
Yes, I think that if you can lessen the fear of conflict (and the fear of abandonment, as it seems), it would enable you to stand up for yourself and not feel defeated and powerless in the face of your husband’s anger.
My husband is indeed someone who really canât say no very well. He has a real history of taking responsibility, to his own detriment even. Part of the problem here is that I think his standards are a bit too high and he doesnât have enough trust. âNo one does a good job if I donât step upâ â that almost seems to be his mantra, whether he realises it or not. It would really serve him well to work through his own past issues that are holding a grip over his present life.
I donât name call, I donât do character attacks, I donât swear at him and yet he still feels some kind of pull to this aggressive communication style when thereâs conflict.
I’ve been reading from the book “Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving” by Pete Walker. He says that when people have a lot of unresolved anger (from their childhood), they may become very critical of others, i.e. have a strong outer critic. This outer critic can be very judgmental of others, feel superior to others and also feel justified to get angry frequently and dump their anger where it doesn’t belong.
As for getting angry frequently, Pete Walker calls it “emotional flashbacks” – the person gets triggered by something (say their partner leaves dirty dishes in the sink), and this makes them feel unloved and unappreciated, and as a reaction, they react angrily. So a small “incident” can lead them to overreact â because they interpret it in a negative way, as if their partner wanted to hurt them deliberately.
You mentioned that your husband gets upset with you for “leaving things” and not being as tidy as he would like you to be. So perhaps something like that happens with him too? And that’s why he reacts with anger to something that is otherwise not a big deal and could be discussed peacefully?
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