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My partner wants to keep kissing her best male friend

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  • September 4, 2016 at 10:15 pm #114251
    Sunday
    Participant

    Greetings all
    Long time reader and first time poster
    6 weeks ago I discovered (based on my instincts) by looking at my partners phone that she was having an emotional affair with a man who works in the same industry. It has been going on for 2 years. They both have been on a journey of discovery involving Buddhist thinking, mindfulness and star gazing. My relationship with her was not great – I was sleep walking through life, resenting, judging, demanding, not accepting and not talking about my feelings. I have made some significant changes in my thinking and actions that have resulted in us starting to reconnect in our relationship. She says she doesn’t want to leave me for him and that he is not a replacement and she is not wanting to hurt me but she finds the non demanding non judgemental space with no expectations too hard to give up. She described them as an unconventional friendship when I feel it is an affair ( they act like a couple but don’t have sex). She also said it was a bit of mid life crisis to cope with lack of intimacy from me. They send each other daily messages (wake up time and bed time), flirty comments, say they love each other and see each other once a week to watch stars.

    He is also in a long term relationship, is 10 years older and has had a sexual affair before resulting in a separation and the reconciliation with his wife. His wife was also unhappy with the intensity and time they spent together and spoke with my partner about her concerns. My partner did not admit anything and said he was an avoidance type person like her.

    Now the situation is somewhat in the open my partner wants to continue with the “friendship” including kissing him and going nude swimming together, camping trips away together but nothing more. She said she would be honest with me and tell me if she was going to have sex with him. She says she is selfish and wants to have her cake and eat it too by having our relationship and her relationship with her friend.

    I have explored ideas of clinging, craving, expectations, judgement and being demanding and that I should let it go that she is kissing him. But I am really stuck with this behaviour – it feels like she is not really wanting to reconnect or give up something that challenges and hurts me. She has said she is ok with me having sex with other people as long as I am emotionally available but I have not and don’t want to do this. She believes that when she is with me she can be wholly with me but I have doubts about that really being possible with daily contact with him. I know I can’t control or make demands on her – she chooses to be in a relationship with me or chooses to leave.

    I am stuck about whether to accept the behaviour in a non judgemental/demanding/compassionate way or make a stand and say if you keep kissing him I can’t be in our relationship and leave. We have a house together and son.
    Any advice please?

    September 5, 2016 at 12:49 am #114272
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    That’s a tough situation, green. You’re now in a somewhat-open relationship, and not because you wanted to be but because she forced your hand. That’s not really fair on you. I agree with you that this is not an unconventional friendship, it’s an affair.

    If your only hangup with this is the kissing, is it not worth having another talk with her along the lines of: “Look, I didn’t sign up for a relationship like this, but I’m working hard to adapt to it and I want to make this work. Can you not make me a small concession and stop kissing him?”

    If it really is her way or the highway and she’s not willing to compromise at all, she’s being pretty selfish. Still, it sounds like you’ve got a lot together and you’re both in flux at this time. So I would say, try to make it work. Try to accept this new situation as it is and continue to love her. You may reach a point where you know for sure you won’t be able to, but until then it’s worth your best effort.

    September 5, 2016 at 6:31 am #114284
    Inky
    Participant

    Hi green,

    Her guy friend is married, correct?

    I would become friends with his wife. Seriously. Talk about what’s going on. Have it all out in the open. All four of you meet and have it out. It will get awkward. LET IT BE AWKWARD. They are trying to make something that’s not OK normal.

    Your partner is utterly selfish.

    Open relationship? Fine. If that’s the way it has to be, then I would also be stick around until your son is older and then sell the house.

    I am sorry you are going through this.

    Inky

    September 5, 2016 at 8:54 am #114291
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear green:

    You wrote: “She says she is selfish and wants to have her cake and eat it too by having our relationship and her relationship with her friend.” Well, she said it. And Buddhist thinking has nothing to do with it.

    If she swims with the guy naked, that is they are both naked, in a pool together and kissing- no matter in what philosophical context I visualize it, it is still two naked people kissing. In other words, the bare reality is what it is.

    She said she wants the cake (you) and eat it too (the other man). And you are not a cake, you are a feeling human being and her behavior hurts you. It is not… unevolved, sub-Buddhist interpretation of the situation that is hurting you, it is her behavior.

    You wrote: “I know I can’t control or make demands on her – she chooses to be in a relationship with me or chooses to leave.” You can’t choose for her, but you can choose for you: you can choose to be in a relationship with her or not; you can choose to co operate with her as co parents and leave the relationship otherwise.

    anita

    September 5, 2016 at 10:53 am #114299
    Michelle
    Participant

    That is tough, feel for you. I tend to agree with points made, no matter how she dresses it up, this is an affair – in some ways emotional affairs are more hurtful than physical tbh, my view.

    The suggestion of getting to know his wife is a good one. I’m not much into pretending but I’ve also known tactics along the lines of calling her bluff to work – i.e. she may not be as ok and detached at the idea of you swimming naked, camping and kissing someone else as she thinks she is.

    End of day though, you need to set your boundaries of what’s truly ok with you. And if she can’t work with you to meet that, you know you tried your hardest before moving on.

    September 5, 2016 at 4:29 pm #114328
    Sunday
    Participant

    Thank you all for the advice. Last night she admitted she was selfish and loves him and has sexual desires for him which at the moment is only kissing but that may change. She says she loves me and wants to be able to love two people at the same time with everything remaining the same. I feel better knowing the reality of the situation but finding it hard to process that she wants an ongoing affair with the knowledge that it is hurting me. I know I have a choice about how I feel about it but all the same it hurts.

    Inky: Yes he is a married 56 year old and my partner is 42. I do know his wife, we have even been on holidays together. I haven’t spoken directly to her about what I know. His wife actually called my partner to talk about her relationship with him because she was uncomfortable about the frequency and intensity of it. My partner didn’t tell her the truth but says she is a woman and he has had an affair before so she probably knows what he is doing. My feeling is that she knows and is like me struggling with staying or leaving.

    Michelle: I do wonder about if I start another relationship with someone else would it upset her or make her feel her position is more justified because we are both doing it. She says the only dealbreaker for her is if I am not emotional available in our relationship.

    Anita: I am glad to read your answers because I have felt that she is being a complete hypocrite saying that I am clinging and craving to our old monogamous relationship but she is craving and clinging to having a lover and not giving that up.

    I have let her know that her having the affair is making it hard for me to stay but she says she doesn’t want to give it up to make me feel better as her feelings of love for him are real and she would be unhappy being with me without him and probably leave anyway.

    Thanks so much for helping with working through this.

    September 5, 2016 at 8:11 pm #114340
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear green:

    The main point for me is that she is knowingly hurting you.
    Post anytime.

    anita

    September 6, 2016 at 1:41 am #114351
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You can have some power over how you feel, but it’s not OK for her to be like, “Well, if you’re jealous that’s your problem. Sort it out.” Especially because you didn’t negotiate an open relationship, and she’s only recently admitted what’s really going on. Now that it’s out in the open, you need to talk about how you’re going to deal with this, and find a compromise.

    Have you read any of the material on polyamory? “The Ethical Slut” is a classic but there’s other books and information online. Some polyamorists are superior knobheads, but if you can find your way around them you can find some really good stuff about dealing with jealousy, and how your partner can help you work with it. Even if you don’t feel an open relationship is what you want, it’s useful stuff. Polyamorist know their stuff when it comes to jealousy. They deal with it a lot. :/

    She should give your feelings more consideration than she seems to be doing at the moment.

    I don’t think it’s that useful getting too involved with how the other couple is handling this. I mean, be friendly if you can, but their relationship is their business, you know? Don’t play tactics or “call her bluff”. You’re not in high school.

    September 7, 2016 at 11:30 am #114510
    Michelle
    Participant

    So I totally agree with not playing games btw – have just seen a number of times that people will say “you can do it too” to make themselves feel better about what they are doing – which to me indicates she knows she’s being unfair in what she’s asking but asking anyway. And whilst I wouldn’t actually do it, I imagine if you became less available, it would bring home what she is risking losing.

    It’s really tough but does seem to come down to if you think what she’s offering as a way forwards is enough for you – can you be truly emotionally available and connected the way you want to be. Like Monklet says, different ways of leaving work for different people and it’s not wrong – just need to figure out if it’s wrong for you or something you can see yourself being happy with.

    September 7, 2016 at 12:12 pm #114516
    Nan
    Participant

    Guy friend had a sexu8al affair before and it resulted in separation and then reconciliation. Had history like this before, hmmm?
    It appears that:
    nude swimming (they are doing it..)
    Camping trips (they are doing it)
    If not having sex, she is relieving his sexual tensions at the very least.
    It is much more than kissing. And daily texts and such? They “love’ each other on the text messages?
    ( PS: They are doing it).

    September 12, 2016 at 5:17 pm #115032
    Sunday
    Participant

    She denies any sexual activities, say it is no going to happen and say it would be weird to have sex with her friend. She described kissing him as the same as a nice caress. She fully believes in the open relationship idea (can love more than one person, monogamy is a social construct that makes us unhappy). She has asked me to imagine the worst about their relationship and learn to cope with this. I guess either she is being honest and her kissing him is just an strange way of saying she cares about her friend and I have to learn to handle the jealousy and anxiety or she is a selfish manipulative dishonest person who is wanting to get away with having an affair and keeping a partner. The hardest part is accepting things have changed between us, the loss of boundaries and rules (existentialist crisis) and the anxiety and jealousy and threat to the ego. Good thing there are plenty of ways to work through these things.

    September 12, 2016 at 8:24 pm #115041
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear green:

    You wrote: “She fully believes in the open relationship idea”- well, do you?

    If you don’t, what is your plan?

    anita

    September 18, 2016 at 5:41 pm #115548
    Sunday
    Participant

    Anita
    I am not comfortable with an open relationship as I don’t want to have sex/intimacy with someone else at the moment.
    However I love her and want to be with her so her being in an open relationship with him is part of the new deal unfortunately.
    My choice is to leave and be unhappy or try and see how I can manage my jealousy and loss of trust and reconnect with her and suffer a little with my ego and expectations. She is starting to understand the impacts on making selfish choices that people get hurt in real life not as some abstract idea.
    I have decided to go along for the ride and see how it feels and how far she goes in exploring her relationship with him. Life with her is 95% good 5% uncomfortable/challenging because she loves and wants to be in a parallel relationship with him. If she lies/manipulates then I can leave knowing I tried my best to love her but she couldn’t respect our relationship anymore.

    Thanks for the questions. I have pondered over them the last 5 days.

    September 18, 2016 at 7:48 pm #115560
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Sunday:

    It is good that she is beginning to understand that an open marriage is not an abstract idea- when practiced- that there are ” impacts on making selfish choices that people get hurt in real life.”

    Your choice is to stay with her as long as she doesn’t lie or manipulate you, as I understand. You will try to manage your jealousy and go on this ride.

    I am curious as to your ride and will be interested to read how it goes, if you’d like input, that is.

    anita

    September 18, 2016 at 8:41 pm #115573
    Sunday
    Participant

    Anita:
    I will keep you and anyone else updated via this thread. At the moment he is away with his wife on holidays overseas so they aren’t able to physically see each other. The challenge will be when he gets back and after 6 weeks apart they will want to meet, catch up, kiss, express their love and I will be at home managing my want for it not to be happening and practising acceptance, non judgement and let going that she loves more than me and is kissing him damaging our relationship or could it be thought of a like hugging. Interesting times ahead and thanks for your questions and thoughts. Life is better now for the challenges I was previously fairly emotional dead but alive again and feeling the joy and the pain of existence.

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