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I need help working through this.

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  • #272355
    GL
    Participant

    Dear Andrea,

    The conditions for a stable relationship is mostly based on communications, acceptance, responsibility, commitment and openness. But whether a person will work toward it is entirely their choice. You can have expectation for your relationship since you want it to work out, but you can’t really have heavy expectations in the way of your partner. You can predict their actions and their thoughts, but until they have taken actions of some kind, then you won’t understand their stance in your relationship. You can voice your thoughts on the matter and ask to work on it with them, but in the end, their action is dependent on whether they are willing to commit.Ā  After all, you cannot ask more than a person is willing to give.

    Now, there are several red flags for you to think about.

    1. When you asked your ex if he was willing to commit to a serious relationship, he had rejected it. So you weren’t going to get the serious and intimate relationship you were hoping for. He had made his stance early on, but you still chose to pursued a relationship. Whether you were thinking he might changed his mind later on, I don’t know, but he had made his stance and people rarely change their decision so easily. Especially when he made it obvious that he is not inclined to commit to a serious relationship that will turn co-dependent in the future.

    2. Your thought of “young people” using sex as a way of using people and not holding accountability is quite the prejudice against those younger than you. There are many sexual inclinations as much as there are people in the world and studies have shown that teens these days are actually having less sex these days. So is this thought a projection of what you might be thinking about yourself or your previous partners/crushes? Because projection is from personal experience.

    3. You seem to find unavailable men to be attractive. From the beginning it was your obsession with someone who had rejected your confession and after it’s someone who had declined to enter a serious relationship with you. But when that casual relationship seemed to be turning serious, you begin to feel irritated. After the person that was inattentive and distance begin to be more accountable for their share of the work in your relationship, you begin to find fault in their actions. You begin to feel that the relationship might be incompatible. You felt safe, though insecure, when your ex was absence, but felt strange and anger when he began to lessen that distance.

    4. It seem that you had a lot of intimacy through your bodies, but very little communications. You went to his house and slept, but didn’t really talk except through text. You want to share your interest with him, but he shows no interest. Everyone has different ways of showing support. Though I advocate that a partner should not have to attend any shows just because their partner has interest since emotional support is shown in encouragement, not attending any show to placate their partner. That just sow resentment. But I digress. Now, even before you broke off, you laid together in bliss because you thought he understood what you were trying to tell him. But the thing is, communication take time and effort. It takes a series of discussions with the parties involved willing to listen to every side and angle. It is vulnerable and messy, but it is open and honest. You can’t ever truly understand a person, but they can try to show you who they are. Even then, it is an ongoing work. So did he willingly listen to your insecurities and did you really understand what he was trying to tell you about himself?

    5. Rather than think that this is a good opportunity of growth for him, something that he decides for himself, decide for yourself what you’ve learn from it.

    6. You haven’t set good boundaries for yourself.

    You can’t fix a relationship that wasn’t there in the first place. You had began a casual fling with someone you found attractive, but who like the physical aspect more than the emotional part of your relationship. But deep in your heart, you wish for that share emotion between two people in a serious, romantic relationship. But you’re not going to get it from your ex. He had told you from the beginning that he does not desire emotional intimacy at this point in time. And now that he is, again, unavailable, you want to pursued a relationship again because you miss him. You want to fix what you think is broken even when your intuition is telling you otherwise.

    So what is it that he was filling inside of you that you want him back? Better yet, what is it that he represent that makes him so tempting that you willingly ignore your own intuition to pursue him? What kind of story are you telling yourself about your relationship and him that makes you want to go back? There’s a lot of question you need to ask yourself.

    #272371
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Andrea:

    You probably forgot that you posted a thread here more than five years ago. I read it and will try to connect it to this thread because I think it may be helpful.

    In that thread you wrote about an ex boyfriend “who wasĀ  very argumentative andĀ  always wantingĀ  to prove things ‘right”, and notĀ  in the kindest constructive way.Ā My dad (andĀ  my mom… likes to argue for the sakeĀ  of argument, and always has ways of coming around what you’re saying. It drives me crazy because it leaves me feeling, again, non-competent,Ā  and unsure of anything: always fearing that I’ll be put downĀ  or argued with. Also, he tends to drive things to personal levels.. it’s gotten to the point whereĀ  even in the mostĀ  ridiculous situations (when I’m just giving an opinion on something… I feel dread and fear for beingĀ  put down by him..

    I’ve made some advancements inĀ  that area, by acceptingĀ  my dad for who he is… But some partĀ  of me (a little agitated voice just feels soĀ  inferior andĀ  crushed whenever heĀ  finds some wayĀ  around a point… some partĀ  of me wants to destroy my self-esteem whenever I doĀ  understand a point that he makes (because then it means that mine is ‘wrong’ and therefore, I’m ‘wrong'”

    Earlier in thatĀ  thread you wrote: “I have these thoughts… incessant self-doubt and paranoid fears over being put down/ destroyed/ refuted when expressing my views”.

    On this thread you shared that you “immediately was attractedĀ  to this guy because he seemed like he had a secret very sweet andĀ  tender partĀ  to him”. You enjoyed sex with him for the pleasure of it and “as a way of connecting with someone”. You don’t value “hooking up and sex as a meansĀ  of using people and not having emotional accountability with them”. You noticed that “he was a bit on the cold side at times… being not very expressive, etc..” At one point you asked him “if he was interested in something more serious”, he said no, you were heartbroken. “my instinct told me that it was timeĀ  to leave, I ended up staying. We sleptĀ  together again”. Later, “We started being more serious”, but you “kept noticing things about him that wouldĀ  put me off”, an irritation about his quirks, “and I started becoming annoyed with him, at the way he was”.

    You wrote: “it was weird because I had worked soĀ  hard to get this moreĀ  serious thing with him andĀ  whenĀ  I did.. when heĀ  wasĀ  more ‘there’, I started hating him for it…I wanted someone who was different, more mature, ‘cooler’, older, whoĀ  was ‘smart’ aboutĀ  theĀ  whole situation, whoĀ  would takeĀ  control”.

    You asked yourself, puzzled about what you want: “you want someone who’s sensitive, but not TOO sensitive? You want someone who is sweet, but not TOO sweet?”

    Later, in his absence you felt “this guilt that the problem wasĀ  ME… that I was the one messed up”, you missed him terrible, “Yet, a part of me just keptĀ  screamingĀ  andĀ  screaming: enough”

    Later you wentĀ  to his house, “Again, deepĀ  in me, I had told myself that I wanted this to be over, but also another partĀ  thought that I couldĀ  fix it, that we could fix it, and that we couldĀ  be happy”.

    You wrote: “A relationship is likeĀ  a social contract”, and “Looking back howĀ  I wish I could have FREAKING SAT DOWN WITH HIM AND NOT LEFT UNTIL WE HAD UNDERSTOOD EACH OTHER COMPLETELY”.

    You wrote: “how I wish he could know 1% of how I am feeling right now. HowĀ  I wish I could have been actually honest andĀ  authentic with him”, and that you realize “how much I’m willing to ‘change’ and ‘hideĀ  parts of’ for someone else’s love”

    Finally, you wrote: “I would greatly appreciate those who can help me dig through this gently and understand what the hell even happened”-

    This is my understanding of whatĀ  happened: like you wrote, “a relationshipĀ  is likeĀ  a social contract”. ThereĀ  was such a contract in your relationship with your father: to gain any bit of his approval, you had to be “willing to ‘change’ and ‘hide parts of (yourself)”. In that relationship you felt an intenseĀ  loveĀ  for him, anĀ  intense desire thatĀ  he will love you back. You badly wanted your father, throughout years and years, to finally “know 1% of how (you are) feeling”, but he didn’t. You wantedĀ  him toĀ  finally understand you, but he didn’t.

    You badly triedĀ  to “fix it”, the relationship with your father, that is, but also, you were also angry with him, and wantedĀ  to get away from him, “a partĀ  of me just kept screaming andĀ  screaming: enough”, too tired, exhausted andĀ  frustrated having beenĀ  trying for so long, tired of “feeling, again, non competent, and unsure of anything: always fearing that I’ll be put down or argued with”.

    I think that you have a desire for a man who will be like your father, “more mature, ‘cooler’, older, who was ‘smart’.. who would takeĀ  control”, and change him into a man who will finally know how you feel,Ā  understand that you don’t want to argue, you just wantĀ  to be loved.

    anita

     

     

     

    #272381
    Inky
    Participant

    Hi Andrea,

    There is a huge difference between a woman pushing 30 and a 25 year old guy. That’s number one. Women in their thirties are by and large family oriented and need their nest. Men (boys) in their twenties are just thinking about their nests, or not at all. Let the men in their twenties build their nest! Leave them alone! Find a guy who’s your age, or, better, older!

    The other part is, you ended up with him because a guy you were obsessed with turned you down. So you went for this young guy (subconsciously) to redeem yourself, to prove a point, to prove yourself to yourself that you’ve still got it. You thought (subconsciously) that a younger guy would treat you like a queen, worship you like a goddess, or, at the very least, treat you the way you deserve to be treated.

    So now what has happened is this younger guy has, in fact, rejected you, but he never outright rejected you with his words. But his (non) actions speak volumes, doesn’t it?

    Seek a guy your age or older.

    Best,

    Inky

    #272423
    Andrea
    Participant

    Thanks for the replies, guys. A lot of stuff to chew on.

    GL

    2. What I do not understand and am against is this very popular act of just sleeping with whomever you want with no “strings attached” and no accountability whatsoever. Sex, as much as we try to argue against it, is emotional to an extent. To wanna engage with as many people as you possibly can without having any emotional bondĀ  or responsibility whatsoeverĀ  implied is infantile thinking. It’s not possible in a long-term basis.Ā  People, at the end of they day, can do whatever they want (as long as there is consent) but at any rate, it’s something that I personally don’t want to engage in.

    1. I’ll admit, I believed that the guy could change his mind, that he can change his mind. That he was just scared of trying something new. Part of me still resonates with that…but in the end, it’s his choice, no? I can’t change someone. It’s that belief that a lot of women have that we can “change” someone, no? Is that not rampant? How much of that is actually true? I do see your point of him having rejected me from the get go and that should have been a sign to let go. There was nothing wrong with me wanting what I wanted, but I really wonder why I have been pulling this for as long as I have, when I know what I want. Which brings me to point number 3.

    3. I really want to delve into this point. Could it be that something about them being unavailable attract me? What could that say about me? I talked to another friend about this and he told me that “shame” might be a factor when it comes to my relationships, namely, shame of the choices that I make and the people I choose to date. Because, while I was with him, I was mostly happy, stable, enjoyed being with him…but when he was apart, when we were in public, or when the thought of me introducing him to other people, those kinds of thoughts would come up. What do you guys think?

    4. Can you elaborate on what you said about emotional support? Look, my parents don’t come to everything I do, but I know that they still love me and support me 100% in what I do, and are excited when I am excited about things. Is that what you mean? Still, this guy did not ask me once about tickets or when the shows would be…only when I brought it up. I don’t honestly know if he listened to me more than I am sure that I actually listened to him. If only we hadn’t gone to bed straight away and we had just talked more!

    5. That part was just a typo on my part. I meant a learning opportunity for me. šŸ˜‰ And, yes, I have seen what I can do to the extent that I have for the fear of losing someone.

    6. Can you elaborate on this too?

    So what is it that he was filling inside of you that you want him back? Better yet, what is it that he represent that makes him so tempting that you willingly ignore your own intuition to pursue him? What kind of story are you telling yourself about your relationship and him that makes you want to go back? There’s a lot of question you need to ask yourself.

    Those are the questions that I am introspecting about these days. I’ll be posting my conclusions soon. šŸ˜‰

     

    #272427
    Andrea
    Participant

    Anita:

    How did you possibly remember what I had written here more than 5 years ago?!?! šŸ™‚ I remember now. Wow, think you could link me to that thread? Wow, some common patterns here…I do have to say, I’m not the same person I was back then. My relationship with my father has not yet been resolved (and probably won’t until I am able to gain more literal space from him), but those things don’t bother me anymore? Those thoughts don’t haunt me. However, conditioning runs deep. Hm…

    Can you elaborate more on what you mean in that last paragraph? A part of me can feel, not see, what you mean, but Im not sure. I want to be with a man who will just understand me and love me? Who will give me that sense of validation I’m so desperately seeking? Who will be able to take control of the situation?

     

    #272431
    Andrea
    Participant

    Inky:

    Thanks. You’re right. As much as we tried to fight against this fact. I want what I want, and he wants what he wants, and age very much does have to do with it.

    #272441
    Anonymous
    Guest

    DearĀ  Andrea:

    I did notĀ  remember that youĀ  posted hereĀ  before, I clickedĀ  on your userĀ  name andĀ  got a recordĀ  ofĀ  your prior posts and threads, you can do the same and read yourĀ  own thread of five years ago.

    My post to you today includes quotes from that thread and your current thread. BeforeĀ  posting to me again on this thread, if you will, why don’t you read that older thread first.

    You wrote thatĀ  you areĀ  a changed person, inĀ  someĀ  ways you have changed, got into theater,Ā  for one. But theĀ  neuropathways formed in our childhood don’t change because time goesĀ  by, andĀ  so I rely on childhood experience to be aĀ  most significant factor in our livesĀ  as adults.

    I understand that you liveĀ  with your father, correct?

    Regarding the lastĀ  paragraph ofĀ  the priorĀ  post, before I elaborate, IĀ  will check first: doĀ  you consider your father “mature…Ā  ‘cooler’, older.. smart… (one) who wouldĀ  take control”?

    anita

     

    #272835
    Andrea
    Participant

    Hi, Anita.

    Sorry for taking long to reply. Had a bit of a hectic weekend. Ā First, I didn’t realize that you vocould see your own posts, haha. But upon looking at it, wow, what a trip down memory lane, first off. I’ve been thinking about what you told me and what resonates with me is that I definitely had (have) patterns where I expect the man to be dominant over the situation. And that definitely does sound like my dad. And maybe cultural conditioning? I definitely don’t think he’s mature (at least, consciously), but I do have that tendency to want a guy to take control.

    As an update of my present state, I’ve been feeling so so. I realized yesterday what people mean by the mind saying one thing and the heart saying another. It’s at night, especially, when the heart takes over and I start feeling sad. Also, one thing I’m working through is the sensation of guilt that I have over ending this. Some part of me is still nagging about the fact that he told me to invite him to the next concert I had. My ego and my mind tells me ā€œyou’ve been contacting him enough! Let him show some interest, if he even cares a bit for you.ā€ The other is like…well, he’s sensitive, maybe he’s hesitant to speak. But part of me sick and tired of chasing him around. I had a huge important event happen for me and, again, nothing from him. I wonder where these feelings of guilt come from…. guilt has been an important factor of my relationship with my father.

    Anyway, I’m working on taking it easy too. I really feel like I want to enjoy the present and whatever is happening right now and end this on-going story.

    Thanks, again, for all your help.

    #272839
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Andrea:

    You are welcome.

    If you want to explore thatĀ  guilt (“I wonder where theseĀ  feelings of guilt comeĀ  from.. Guilt has been an important factor of my relationship with my father”), we can:

    In your threadĀ  of five years ago you wrote: “My dad… likes to argue for theĀ  sake of argument… he tendsĀ  to drive things to personal levels”-

    How did he or does he “drive things to personal levels”?

    anita

    #272883
    Vee
    Participant

    Hello, I’ve been having a lot on my mind but I will try to be quick so I don’t lose myself. I just wanted to clear out that I’m 17 years old and I know it’s quite an young age to worry so much about a relationship but here it goes.

    I started dating my boyfriend almost 2 years ago and we just connected so much. 7 months in we were having some problems and we decided to have a break up and he decided to be with another girl for about 3 months. We then got back together and we were very happy and everything was so perfect. Even like this I never felt the same in my own sick. I felt very insecure and depressed most of the time, regardless of how happy I truly was with him. Later on the summer of 2018 e started having doubts about how much I loved him and if I did or did not. After many hours of crying and research I realized that most of what I felt was driven from ROCD, which my therapist reaffirmed.

    Now those thoughts at back but in a slightly different way. Instead of constantly questioning how much I love him all I can think is that maybe I’ve fallen out of love and I’m truly no longer in love with him.. this thought makes me sad because i don’t want to lose him, but the idea of not leaving also scares me.. I don’t know if it is rocd again or maybe me truly falling out of love.

    I feel like nothing in life brings me true joy anymore and so our relationship but I didn’t want to throw it all away. I’m really scared to be honest.

    Anyways, could you give me any thoughts or opinions? Thank you very much

    #272891
    Anonymous
    Guest

    * Dear Vee: why don’t you start your own thread by clicking FORUMS above, then choosing a category, Relationships, seems to me. Click on that,Ā  scroll down the page, and paste a copy of the above post into the empty box there? If you do I will be glad to reply to you there.

    anita

    #272895
    Vee
    Participant

    Dear Anita

    oh I am so sorry! I am new to the site..

    thank you very much

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