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I do not know if I just want to be heard or need some feedback/advice

HomeForumsTough TimesI do not know if I just want to be heard or need some feedback/advice

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  • #379189
    Kibou
    Participant

    Dear Teak and Anita,

    Sorry for the late reply; although I am not quite sure what qualifies as a late reply and what does not. In adavance, I can say that when it comes to the replies received from tinybuddha, it can sometimes take me 1-2 days processing/reflecting time. Sometimes, I also simply cannot get straight to replying. Other than that, I will try to announce earlier that I’ll reply on a later day, as I have before.

    Also, I hope you both don’t mind the joined reply again. For me it seems that things overlap and can be adressed to both of you.

    The impression “that you were the person who always took care of other people’s needs, but perhaps they couldn’t take care of your needs properly” sums it up good.

    Yes I took care of my siblings, and I forgot or may not even have considered my own emotional needs at all. Also, the thought of people being there for me when I needed them is very rare, and only for specific instances. For example I would still do much of the work on my own or deal with much of my own emotions, and only asking for small favors whilst having backup plans prepared. It is habit I grew into given my experiences. I do not feel the need to share much of things that happened at the moment, but thanks for offering 🙂

    Some of these events I did share with friends, or with people that I met in a pilot study for a platform development focused on raising the collective awareness. I was both in a career and spirutality group. Each of them lasted 2 months, and had weekly group calls. So, I did continue to share and open up and get help/support, although at first I saw these people as “temporary” since they were all called in for a pilot study or test trial; there wasn’t much belief that we would stay in touch.

    Never the less we all shared vunerable stories and struggles we were facing. I was sharing often with a smile on my face and trying not to be too much of a burden. Back then I still felt somehow like a burden, but there were aha moments where these people showed me or got me to realize that we are holding an organic authentic conversation, despite sharing our struggles, or blindspots that we have.

    It is also through these groups that I met the theta healer. I met her in the pilot study and she offered me a healing session in September 2020. I did not get back to it, as my mental state was going down the slope at that time. Then when we met again this year in February, she said it was totaly fine, and said it is okay to come back when I feel ready. At the end of the test study, we both knew, we both were ready for that theta healing session; she just had begun her practice in August 2020 and still was filing on her skills. These people helped me along the way to ask for help, or better said, kept saying it is fine to ask for help or share something if I need a reflecting board. I did eventually in the process.

    From some of them it is that I learned things about HSPs, empaths and energy as well. So I did not only look at books and blogs. Since I did not share much of the human interaction that I had, I can see how it could be misunderstood that I am lacking “human interaction aha moments.” I did have those as well, but for some reason the biggest aha moments I have are after the interactions on my own, or random moments where I am usually also alone. I am probably just processing information.

    Also, I do think it might have taken me a while to see or grasp the form of support that comes along the way. Me being used to taking of other people’s needs and little of my own or receiving it, had to kind of first learn again what it is like to receive support. In fact this came up in the theta healing session; I know that there are people I can go to for support to, but I won’t allow to receive it. So I was setting myself up for self sabotaging throughout my life.

    However, I think I am doing a better job at asking for help. Last week I asked people which title name they would find more compelling and which image that creates in their head. I was surprised how many people replied, especially the speed at which they replied. I am aware that this sort of question is “lighter” in its nature. I do not think every one is open for “deep” conversations or discussing “heavy” or “sensitive” topics.

    The reason why I put these words in quotation marks, is because to me, I did not find many of these topics to be so heavy/deep/philosophical. Since I am used people being vunerbale towards me I’ve heard stories from loss of a parent, divorce, child loss, finacial struggles, the so called “dark” sides of people; altough I found them to be rather human these things. Maybe I was rationalizing again and empathisizing.

    Maybe that is just what we all fear – being considered good or bad. This does not exactly exist since it is a construction we have created in our mind that cease to to exist when we believe in them; as our actions and behaviours are judged in our own minds by our own set of morals. Before I rant on, what I want to convey, is that I think for many of us it is hard to talk about our emotions, needs and desires so it might be trickier for people to hold such conversations or listen to them.

    Yeah, people can also just be busy with their own lives and don’t feel the need to communicate that often. I had to let that sink in for me as well and acept it together with the life changes we are all going through. Some of the friends used to wonder why people no longer stay in touch, or kept saying they are looking forward to emails and messages, or wrote on the social pages how they are waiting for replies and guess that they have to be patient before a reply comes, so that confused me. It is like two contradictory statements. From what I heard/read it seems that many people prefer to stay in touch with people with who they share more face to face interactions. As a nomad, that is hard to keep up with but I can understand; after all I also prefer physical face to face interaction when possible.

    From one of these friends I hear kind of. It is a sporadious ghosting I would call it, but with what they have shared with me, I am guessing they are doing the best they can and impriving their own behaviours. (they told me that directly). What I found, to be an appropiate way of responding is sending less messages and when I do, they are more simple in nature.

    Also, I found myself expecting less replies from people. When I do receive them I am happy, but I keep in mind that I also do not have to be there at the instance for others and can look out for my own needs. I can openly share that I will get back to them later or a couple of days later. I no longer say “it is okay” when I do not think it was, but instead reply to other content of the message that both people can enjoy. That way I am not unconsciously teaching people it is okay to treat me like an option, but also that way the messages sound kinder or possible feelings/residue of guilt deminish; I used to feel a bit guilty when I would reply late, starting with a day late.

    I understand better now that when life is busy and people are under stress people are more forgetfull. Maybe they really did mean to be there for me anytime I call or message, although were hardly ever. And if I do have something urgent, I  do not mind sending out messages again or calling them without scheduling for a call after not having received any reply. Seems like a good way to cope with it, for me.

    TeaK, I think you are correct; I did have some of my needs met. It may not be to way I imagine, but I am staying connected somehow to people and bonding was there. I cannot deny that. And I think, I have more strong bonds shared with several people than I think I have. Not saying that these people were there for me, as I would have liked, or that I became best pals with most, but the moment(s) were strong/vunerable itself.

    I have a question. What are healthy ways to release emotions like anger, sadness, depression to avoid the the risk of rationalization. By now, I feel like I can call out my emotions. I do breathing exercises when I notice I am detecting anger, or I go for a walk. I dance it out, sometimes I write it out. I talk about things with my mum or sister. Are these all different ways, or is there more to it? I am asking out of curiosity.

    Kibou

     

    #379194
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Kibou;

    In regard to late replies, as far as I am concerned, there is no such thing as a late reply: whenever you reply is okay with me. In regard to addressing your posts to “TeaK and anita”- I prefer that you address me separately. First, I will read what you post to me and to other members no matter who you address your posts to, so I will  not miss any information that you provide (these are public forum, and the public, including myself,  is welcome to read everything here).

    Second, by you addressing me, I can see if and how you respond to what I individually suggested to you. Third, if you address one member by name, but you do not address me by name, I will understand that you are not interested in more of my input (you have the choice to reply to one member but not to another, or post a short thank-you to one and reply at length to another, according to your preference).

    Otherwise, regarding your most recent post, if you think it may be a good exercise for you, here is what I suggest: re-write the part of your recent post that you want to address to me (if you do) in a child-like language, that is, in a simple, direct, concrete language a ten year old (or younger) would use, best you can.

    anita

    #379226
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Kibou,

    it’s okay to respond whenever you feel like it, without feeling obliged. I do like it when people respond, but the relationships here are not the same as relationships with one’s friends and relatives, so no need to feel obliged. It’s okay to write only if you feel like expressing yourself and sharing.

    From what you’ve said, it appears one of your core wounds is your unmet emotional needs, and feeling that you’re a burden if you express those needs at all. You were there for others and didn’t expect, or didn’t dare to expect, that others would be there for you.

    When you comforted your mother when you were just 2 years old, the child doesn’t do it because they have developed empathy at that age, but primarily because they fear that their own existential needs won’t be met. If something happens to your mother, you as a small, helpless child wouldn’t be able to survive on your own. That’s why a child tries to do everything in their power to comfort the parent, to make the parent happy, so the parent could continue to take care of them. It’s a coping mechanism, a survival mechanism for the child. If you help your mother the best you can and don’t represent a burden to her, there’s a greater chance that she’d take care of you, and that your own survival would be ensured. That’s how the child’s mind works, unconsciously.

    So I believe you became an empath, i.e. attuned to other people’s needs, out of necessity. You too had needs but you suppressed them, basically to survive. When you got a little older and when the thinking brain started developing, you probably started rationalizing why those other people (your parents and siblings, later your friends) can’t really be there for you when you need them – because they are hurt people, you told yourself.

    This continued for many years, where you’ve tried to help various hurt people whom you met on your journey. You would involve in “deep conversations” with them and offered to be their shoulder to cry on. This was your way of bonding. You didn’t ask for much in return, just that they keep in touch. When they wouldn’t, when they would ghost you, that’s when you finally felt hurt and abandoned.

    I also understand now that some of those people might really be wounded (suffering from social anxiety, as you said), that’s why they would often ghost you. But also, many of your relationships seem to be long-distance, with people whom you didn’t spend much time with in the first place, since you do move a lot, so that’s also something to consider. It’s good that you’re now better able to set boundaries and not feel the pressure to reply immediately, but to honor your own needs and timing.

    It’s also great that during your group healing sessions in 2020, you could allow yourself to change the dynamic from always being a helper to asking for help yourself too. At first you were sharing your painful experiences with a smile on your face, not wanting to be a burden, but then the group members made you realize it’s okay to be needy. They encouraged you to ask for help. That’s a great progress.

    You said you’ve done most of your healing with the theta healing modality. I don’t know much about it, I’ve just checked it now a little, and it seems it works on uncovering one’s false beliefs. Does it work with emotions too, and how?

    When you do feel an emotion, it’s good that you can name it, but it might be good to also stay with it for a while, without immediately rationalizing it and trying to get rid of it. Try to see where it’s coming from and which need of yours hasn’t been met. Try not to immediately explain it away, telling yourself that yes, you’re hurt but the person who’s hurt you is hurt too. Because by doing the latter, you immediately overwrite your own pain with empathy for the other person, while your own pain and your own need remain unaddressed.

     

    #379228
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Kibou:

    I want to expand on my yesterdays’ suggestion that you rewrite to me like a ten year old (or younger) would write, in a simple, direct, concrete language:

    The title of your thread is: “I do not know if I just want to be heard or need some feedback/ advice”- what if you use your thread for the child in you to be heard?

    You started your original post April 17 with: “Hi, I have difficulties with the feelings of abandonment, which is getting bigger”- notice, you have difficulties with the feelings of abandonment, that is, your difficulties are not with abandonment on the intellectual/ rational level, but on the feeling/ emotional level.

    Let’s jump to your May 4 post. You wrote about your experience as a child: “I forgot or may not even have considered my own emotional needs”- that’s you, the intellectual, well-read, educated adult speaking with a vocabulary you picked up through the years of your later, second decade of life. How would a five year old, or a seven year old say what the adult-you expressed here? Maybe she would have said: I am sad and nobody cares that I am sad! with the corners of her mouth turned downward in anger.

    See the difference in language? The adult uses general terms (“emotional needs”), the child uses specific, concrete terms (sad); the adult forgot and is not sure (“I forgot or may not..), the child remembers and is sure. The adult considers, the child knows.

    Putting the exercise aside for a moment, I just noticed your anger while re-reading your recent post: “I was sharing often with a smile on my face and trying not to be too much of a burden”- I get the feeling that what’s behind the smile is anger: on one hand, you smile not wanting to be a burden, but on the other hand, you are angry for (allegedly) being a burden!

    As I imagine that smile on your face, I can see (in my mind’s eye) the anger in it, in the rigidity of the smile perhaps, in it being forced perhaps, or disciplined, not free and spontaneous

    Now back to your April 17 original post, regarding friends who kind-of ghosted you. One one hand, they told you the following: “They said I am their sparkle in their life that they needed, the most caring, loving & supportive friend they know… that.. they think I am thoughtful, fun to hang out with, and diligent…they all said they liked the memories and fun we had together. They all said I am cheerful or am supportive and caring”, but on the other hand: “It’s been 3 months now. That’s the longest I haven’t heard from them… why I am being ‘ghosted’ so often… The friend let me know .. I still hear from them from time to time, with the same ‘ghosting’ trend.. I also have been ‘ghosted’ by others”.

    Trying to understand this contradiction, you considered that their mental health issues may be the explanation, or Covid.. but what if it’s your anger that explains some of the ghosting: they see your smile and appreciate it, but they sense the rigidity in that smile, the anger underneath, contorting it, but they are not sure because your anger has not been verbalized or directly expressed.

    Back to my suggested exercise, talking/typing like a child in her first decade of life: talk about anger in a simple, direct, specific/ concrete language. It will help if you assume an angry face as you do this exercise (if you do), corners of your mouth turned down, eyebrows closer together, feeling tears almost, then talk, write, or type away.

    anita

    #379560
    Kibou
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Thanks for the two replies and I think I understand what you said in the first reply.

    I can not fully reply.

    It is true that I have anger in me.

    I am angry and I am sad right now.

    The more I thought about it, the more sadness I had, my anger increased as well.

    It is in my head, and it got bigger in my head.

    But I can not write down what I thought.

    I know that anger hurts people.

    I know that anger distances people.

    I remember how my mum cried when I was angry at her for not letting me play before completing my homework first in grade one.

    I remember how I felt bad for having hurt her. I was at first stubborn and isolated myself. Our family wanted me to apologize to my mum first before I go outside.

    It was unfair. I wanted to play and not do the homework first, I could have done it afterward. Why would I have to apologize to such non sense.

    But I also was sad and angry at myself for making my mum cry. The thought came up again.

    I apologized and cried when apologizing because I had hurt my mom.

    I am angry at the amount of lies that exist in the world.

    1. People want fairness but we are not fair. So many times have I been treated unfair because of being different; different skin color, different likes, different ideas, different background.

    2. People want authenticity but only to their liking.

    3. People say you should be yourself, but if you are yourself and it is not to people’s liking than that is a lie.

    4. People say they want kindness but are skeptical of it.

    5. There are so many things that contradict each other so there is no right or wrong, but people say something is right or wrong.

    6. Working is fun or full-filling, that is a lie. Most people I have met so far are sad or angry when they come back from work. There are two exceptions. I met one man once who was always happy. He was the first to notice my sadness in Cuba. When I was ready to talk to him I soon found out he died of cancer. He was a really happy man. I wish I could live life as happy and to it’s fullest as he did.

    I hate to admit it and but I am smart and people are jealous of smart people – that is unfair. I feel lonley for being smart.

    I feel lonely for being so open-minded and I am mad when people are not trying to be open-minded. At the same time we want to be accepted for who we are, that itself is kind of a lie or hypocrasy.

    What I am most sad and angry about is that I want someone to make me their first priority. But I would dislike myself if anyone were to lose themselves by putting me first before they do their own.  Yes the inner child is not fully wound.  And I know a child would not speak this way; there are words and expressions a child would not say, but it is as much I can do for now. I guess a child would say, “I am sad and angry because no one truly cares about me.”

    I just had to think of memory; when I was a teenager I asked my mom whether my mom only loves me because I am her child. If I had been swapped by birth, would she have not loved her swapped child as she did to me and if she did not know I was her true child she would not love me unconditionally? My mum went silent. But many people go silent when I question something that people probably do not want to think about. I am good at discussions, debates, presentations. I do not like being good at discussions or debates. I can get the audience to explode in laughter or to go silent. I prefer the former, but the latter has a lesson to be learned. I know the silence cannot be because my presentation was boring or bad since I get very good grades on it. A professor at uni once told me that she found my presentation amazing but I have to be careful how I address humanity’s role in such “difficult” topics. I was presenting about forest set on flames in Indonesia because of actions caused by humans. I knew she was right and could already get a hunch that she would say that when she said “but…” I recognize such silence in an instance.

    Sometimes it is silence created because I thoroughly looked at both sides of an argument. During my year abroad I took part at the northeast Asian student round table club because I wanted to improve my Japanese; the club activities were held in Japanese, but the conference was held in English. I was in the LGBTQ community; we were randomly selected into the communities. I was happy to be drawn into that one though because it was a topic that it is more positive and friendly to discuss at an international university and the more international community – people mostly say they are pro LGBTQ rights in North-East Asia (even if that is not truly the case; they do not want to stick out from what the mainstream say though). The other topics had a higher risk of causing heated discussions. Environment protection and something about security and America’s role in security for northeast Asian countries. The last topic I found boring to research; cultural preservation. I am getting off-topic. But it calmed me down ranting about other topics.

    This time, I did not spell-check. I am tired and my eyes are slightly burning, but I want to add the rest of the reply.

    These friends did not see my face, apart from the videos/pictures I have sent them. They loved my smile. People called out on my radiant smile. In the groups that I was in for the platform development, at first, my smile was not radiant, but they did not say, they said they sensed sadness and depression. As the groups continued they would say my smile getting more radiant and at the end said I showed the biggest cheer up and commitment. In other workshops, the person offering the workshop said he loved my smile and that I am so bright, then again I did these workshops in March/April. When I walk on the streets and I send people a smile on the street they smile back. It feels genuine, so I would have a hard time believing my smile gives away hidden anger, and to be honest, I took a picture of me smiling. When I look at it, I have to smile too.  If anything, then my anger probably shows through my writing, as you saw it, Anita. Does that make sense?

    I hope I did not hurt anyone. Thanks for allowing me to express myself, even if it is not always direct. I will try again at the writing like a child another time. I do think, it is a good exercise.

    Kibou

    #379561
    Kibou
    Participant

    Dear TeaK,

    Thanks for the reply, but I am going to reply another day. I cannot say for sure, as I have a deadline to catch up on.

    Kibou

    #379564
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Kibou:

    Good that you posted again. I will read and reply when I am back to your thread in about 12 hours from now.

    anita

    #379611
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Kibou:

    The first part of your recent post is the exercise:

    “I know that anger hurts people. I know that anger distances people. I remember how my mum cried when I was angry at her for not letting me play before completing my homework first in grade one. I remember how I felt bad for having hurt her. I was at first stubborn and isolated myself. Our family wanted me to apologize to my mum first before I go outside. It was unfair. I wanted to play and not do  the homework first, I could have done it afterward. Why would I have to apologize to such non sense. But I also was sad and angry at myself for making my mum cry. I apologized and cried when apologizing because I had hurt my mom”-

    – the little first grade girl that you were, was filled with intense, youthful anticipation of joy, with the desire to play, filled with passion. That passion was who she was at the time, it was her essence.

    But alas, her essence did not only inconvenience her mother, it hurt her mother and made her cry! Her family wanted the little girl to apologize to her mother, which meant, to agree that indeed, being who she was, her very essence, was wrong and requires an apology.

    At first, the little girl refused to agree with such a devastating conclusion, and she stubbornly isolated herself from them. But not for long, because she was a little girl who needed family, so she gave in and gave up and abandoned herself.

    You started this thread on April 17 with: “Hi, I have difficulties with the feelings of abandonment”. The example you gave today described one incident of abandonment, but there were many more times when the same message was repeated: who you are is Wrong and is not welcome!

    In the second part of your post, you returned to generalities: “1. People want fairness but we are not fair”- your mother/ family were not fair to you when they insisted that you abandon yourself. “2. People want authenticity but only to their liking”- again, you generalize your mother and family into “People”,  “5. There are so many things that contradict each other”- perhaps your mother told you that she loved you while demanding that you abandon yourself, a contradiction.

    “What I am most sad and angry about is that I want someone to make me their first priority”- when your family insisted that you abandon yourself, they made you their last priority. Understandably, you want to be someone’s first priority!

    “But I would dislike myself if anyone were to lose themselves by putting me first”- you would dislike it if someone else was to abandon themselves so to put you first because you know how if feels: you abandoned yourself so to put your mother/ family first, and you paid a heavy price for it.

    “when I was a teenager I asked my mom whether my mom only loves me because I am her child. If I had been swapped by birth, would she have not loved her swapped child…”-

    This tells me that indeed, your mother told you that she loves you, and that you suspected that she didn’t, because of the glaring contradiction: if she loved you, why did she emotionally abandon you, insisting that you follow suit?

    “These friends.. loved my smile. People called out on my radiant smile”- your abandoned self has not been completely abandoned, she still radiates life from time to time.

    Back to your original post of April 17: “The wound of abandonment has not been fully healed and it might never will.. I know that I will always have my family, so that alone makes me feel that I’ve healed certain aspects of that wound”-

    – when your family insisted that you abandon yourself emotionally, you paid a heavy price for the (not really) love that they offered you. As long as they are exacting this price and you keep paying it, the wound of abandonment can not heal.

    It was mind boggling to me when I finally thoroughly understood that my mother did not love me even though she said many times that she did, and even though she meant it at times, and even though she cooked for me, etc. I figured it out when I understood that a person who loves another does not abandon or destroy the supposed loved-one, and then “loves” the shell that remains, or the appearance that remains after the essence of the person is evicted or destroyed.

    anita

    #379653
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Kibou,

    I remember how my mum cried when I was angry at her for not letting me play before completing my homework first in grade one.

    I remember how I felt bad for having hurt her. I was at first stubborn and isolated myself. Our family wanted me to apologize to my mum first before I go outside.

    Parents can cry in front of their children as means of manipulation, or because they aren’t emotionally mature enough, so when you were angry and didn’t want to do obey, she felt it like rejection and started crying. It appears your mother wasn’t manipulating you consciously, but rather, she was emotionally immature and reacted like a child. And then you were made guilty for “making your mommy cry”, and even needed to apologize.

    Your entire family (I assume your father and other adults, perhaps your grandparents?) concluded the same: that you’re guilty and needed to apologize. There was nobody who understood how an adult should behave – all of them were emotionally immature. You grew up in such a family, where you were required to suppress your needs to please your mother (and other family members). And you were emotionally blackmailed: if you don’t behave, you’ll make your mother miserable, perhaps you’ll even make her sick?

    I know that anger hurts people. I know that anger distances people.

    You’ve learned that if you’re angry, you’ll hurt your mother and she’ll distance herself from you. Other family members will distance themselves too. Therefore, you mustn’t be angry. What’s more, you need to have compassion for your mother. When your mother got sick, I guess you needed to be super compassionate and bury your anger even deeper, even though you were breaking down due to the pressure of taking care for your siblings.

    I agree with Anita that those generalized statements about “people” (1-6) most probably refer to your mother and the rest of your family.

    I hate to admit it and but I am smart and people are jealous of smart people – that is unfair. I feel lonley for being smart.

    Was someone in your family (e.g. your siblings) jealous of you being smart?

    I guess a child would say, “I am sad and angry because no one truly cares about me.”

    Good that you could express it loud and clear! You’re sad and angry and you have the right to be sad and angry. You were deprived of that when you were a child. Now you can allow your inner child to be sad and angry! It’s totally justified. It doesn’t mean you should start yelling at your mother and other family members, being angry at them, but you can allow yourself to feel those feelings privately, and not feel bad about yourself for feeling them.

    A professor at uni once told me that she found my presentation amazing but I have to be careful how I address humanity’s role in such “difficult” topics. I was presenting about forest set on flames in Indonesia because of actions caused by humans.

    Perhaps your anger comes out in those presentations, when you talk about issues that you deeply care about, such as environmental protection? You leave people speechless, which is good to a certain point, because it make them stop and think.  But you maybe also make them feel guilty, as if they were personally responsible for causing those forest fires. Perhaps that’s what makes people uncomfortable. When you talk about “people” in those presentations, e.g. people who don’t care about the environment, you may be in part talking about your family who doesn’t care about you, and you’re angry and upset at them. And it shows in your presentations…

    Does this sound like a possibility to you?

     

    #379666
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Kibou:

    I am concerned that because of the sensitive nature of the exercise which you did in your most recent post, (and considering doing again),  that communicating with two replying members at the same time, especially when receiving long posts from each, may be too much work for you, overwhelming and/ or distracting. Is this the case?

    anita

    #379944
    Kibou
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    This week I was busy with the deadline for my thesis application, and still needed to discuss things with my advisor and prepare a new framework for my thesis. That did take up much of energy.

    However, replying to two individuals at the same time with topics that are lengthy is overwhelming, but it has given me helpful insights. Thank you for your thoughtfulness though. I do want to reply to your and TeaK’s replies.

    Still, it would be kind of you, if you could reply after I have replied to TeaK as well. Also, I have finished your reply, but given that it did take much of my energy I have to go over it again later in the day to check whether it is comprehensible.

    Kibou

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Kibou.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Kibou.
    #379945
    Kibou
    Participant

    Dear TeaK,

    Apologies that my reply to your messages has not been sent yet. It will still take some time, but I am hoping to get it done by Wednesday.

    I know that these replies are not obligatory, but I want to reply to both you and anita.

    Still, it would be very kind of you if you could not reply until I have replied to your previous messages first.

    Kibou

    #379948
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Kibou:

    Thank you for your note. Please do take as much time as you need. When you (1) complete your reply to me, and (2) after you reply to other member/s on your thread, whenever that may be (in days or weeks from now), I will reply to you further. Take good care of yourself.

    anita

    #379954
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Kibou,

    sure, take your time, and next time I won’t shoot another post before you reply to me.

    #380014
    Kibou
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    Thank you for your patience.

    When I read both of your’s and TeaK’s reply I thought we are not completely on the same page with everything, but I also saw how I did not explain the situation well enough. Something similar happened to me with my thesis; I pretty much worked through my whole thesis in my head and there’s a lot of information in my head, but providing a quick summary of the whole structure was a bit messy because there was too much information, which was still a bit all over the place. In an effort to jot everything down in my head, it can lead me to over-explain or write very long sentences. Or my sentences are confusing for others. Thus I try to shorten my sentences or write more succinctly, but I feel like I lose things I want to express or the situation is wrongly expressed. This how I am feeling when I am trying to explain something on here, but at the same time want to express my emotions. Apart from my thesis, it did take energy and preparation to write my next reply, because I did not know how to do it. I literally asked myself, “how am I going to explain this better?”

    With the previous posts, I still see that it is difficult for me to talk like a child or keep it simple. I will try again and hope that I can clear up some misunderstanding, or better said, add in the rest of the information.

    Firstly, thank you anita. With the exercise, you allowed me to have a place to dump out stored anger. It is difficult for me to dump out “negative” emotions through writing in simple sentences, especially anger. But rationalizing will still take over at some point.

    There is missing information with the memory of my mum. I did say something hurtful to her; something along the lines that she does not care about me. That line is when she started crying. So, even though I found it unfair that I could not play before doing homework, I also felt like it was also my fault that I made her cry. That was the second time I saw my mum cry. The first being at 2 years old when comforting her. This time the tears were different from the first time I saw her cry the first time.

    Also, it was my mum, family friend and me in the house. My siblings were at kindergarten and my dad at work. Our family friend stayed over for a visit. We had moved to a new city, but it was already the second move within that city (from an apartment to a house). I was 7 years old and by then had experienced 4 moves in total.

    I would also like to add, that my mum was still working after she had me, up to the age of four. She was a flight attendant. I have a memory of being up of one of the towers at the airport and rushing to my mum being very happy to see her. She confirmed that memory and that there were other times where I would see her at work. There is also a picture of me getting to wear the pilot’s hat.

    My dad also travels a lot for work. When they had me, he was still working on the ship as an engineer. When I think about my memories there are less of him simply because he is not always around, he is working. When my mum was not around, my grandma was taking care of me. We were still living in my birth country. I have lots of happy memories, apart from that one time when my mum cried at the age of 2. I remember having two good friends at my first kindergarten. I was thrilled when my brother was born at the age of 5; my parents and I had moved accommodation before he was born (I was 4 years old). I have fun memories of the countries I traveled to from ages 4-5, in terms of people I have in those memories are my mum and a friend I made in one of those countries. I have loving memories of being with my older cousins. The oldest was the cool one and early on became my role model; the first thing I said when entering school was “I want to be like my cousin.” The second thing I said was “I want to make my mum and dad proud of me.” The second oldest, we were almost always together when we visited each other. Playing imaginary creatures which we drew beforehand, games, imaginary fantasy world, lava, mermaid/merman, he would do my hair, etc. When the three of us played together it was a blast. Sure there was quarreling sometimes, but we had fun most of the time.

    I am adding this information because I think it helps bring more clarity to the life I have been living as a kid. I am starting to question whether “abandonment” was the proper word. It kind of was, but I feel like it takes out all the positive because I have a lot of happy/fun/loving memories as a kid, but the sad/confused/angry/ ones simply stood out. One that stood out was at the age of six, we had moved to a new city by then. However, that memory seems to be neutrally charged.

    1. When my sister was born it was really early in the morning. (I was 6 years old). I remember waking up and being alone in the house. I do not know what I felt but I just recall being alone in the house. I do not think it was for a long time. When I saw my dad coming back I remember a smile on his face and him telling me that I now have a sister. I remember being happy having a sister. I went through this event with the theta healer, because she asked me about when was the first time I felt abandoned. This was the only memory I could think of, but it was neutrally charged; when I talked about it, it did not really stir up anything in me.

    There honestly is not much else related to anger to my mum in early childhood. So the words

    “At first, the little girl refused to agree with such a devastating conclusion, and she stubbornly isolated herself from them. But not for long, because she was a little girl who needed family, so she gave in and gave up and abandoned herself.”

    I do not find it accurate nor do I resonate with them. I feel like it is not my story at all. I have too many loving memories before and after that event, that event simply stood up.

    My mom showered me in hugs, substituted foods I did not like with food I did like. For example pasta instead of spaghetti, no brussel sprouts but other greens. She read stories to me, sang together with me, played toys with me, knew me the best, went shopping with me. I have an amazing memory where we went window shopping during Christmas time. We walked for a long time and it got dark and you could see all the Christmas decorations light up and marvel at the advent calendars. We (mum, brother, and I) also once went on another super long walk (I was 6 years old) and my mum jokingly said we are walking to my birth city to see grandma, my cousins, and my aunts. I believed her. It was like an adventure, but in the end, we were too tired and she said the distance might be too long for us. She taught us that it is okay to make mistakes and learn from them. She would sow clothes for us, which I loved to model in, she listened to me, she keeps all the drawings and other creative pieces we (kids) drew/made for her. As we got older she asked whether she can get rid of some of the older stuff because it was getting too much and our art improved over the years. She helped with schoolwork as much as she could; there were so many late nights she helped me with decorations for my poster. She also often said I should go earlier to bed to rest – it was me who was stubborn and studious yet she who told me more often to get rest. When I was sad she would pick me up and cheer me up, she guides us back to love, she provides us with the tools she knows how to defend ourselves. For example, in grade one there was a girl who called me black several times. I came crying to my mum and she would comfort me. Then she told me to take the brown and black color pencils. I should place both next to my arm and tell the girl “This is brown. This is black. Can you see the difference or are you color blind.” If anyone were to ask me where I got learned compassion from, I would without hesitation say I got it from my mum. We watched barbie movies together and other kids movies. We loved watching musicals and dance movies and we still do to this day. When I was small we watched also Bollywood movies together. She made sure all content that I viewed was appropriately pg-rated. When I did not like a hobby I was doing she allowed me to quit because she wanted me to be happy; that was one of the most important things to her that we (kids and family) are happy. With my sibling’s births, it never felt like she was giving more love to one or the other. The only thing I did notice I was always the one doing more chores, but I did them together with her, so the time would pass by anyway. I wonder how many times she listened to me singing kids songs while I was drying the dishes and she was washing the dishes – to put it bluntly, she is amazing. I love my mum and I am loved by her. She rarely ever complained and simply encouraged us to give our best and try hard because out there (the world) things are difficult especially with our skin color. She did not say it often, but hearing her say it with a slightly sad voice made it stand out. If cousins were to label aunts, she would be a loving and caring one. That one time with the homework, cannot overthrow all the other caring and loving moments, it did stand out a lot though from the pile of different memories, just like how the memories stood out when she got unwell.

    The sentence “No one cares about me” is something I would start to say early during my early teens. The time when my mum got unwell. My depression was more linked to my dad and friends and other small things I was doing due to my sensitivity/empathetic nature which accumulated. I always had my mum thought to count on, and at a time when I needed her a lot (my depression), she was not available. Her trauma along with other things, which I might have already thought was not common came up too. Plus everything else. There was a lot going on and it involved my whole family eventually, but like I said once before I talked about all this already. With a therapist and each individual family member. I am cutting this short because I just wanted to show that there is a misunderstanding about the situation with my mum. Maybe that belief of “nobody care about me” formed in between my childhood (0-18 years). As longs as I had my mom, I was fine, but when she was not available it really did feel like I had no one. My mum has always been the most “constant” person around me. My dad was sometimes at work in different countries, since we moved a lot my friend circle kept changing, we moved early away from my birth city, so seeing kinship became less too, and there are times where my siblings were put in different schools.

    There is something though that I do get mad about when I talk about my experiences. At first, I could not clearly name the emotion that came along when I explain my experiences and people try to give feedback or comments to justify my emotions. I get upset when people get angry at my mum and judge her to not be a good mum or blaming her (saying things like “she should not have done that”). I logically understand what they are saying, but I also get frustrated at what they are feeling towards my mum at that moment. Their feelings come across as anger or rage sometimes. If I were to put a level scale for the anger it would go like this frustrated >  mad > angry > rage

    They do not know her whole story, nor mine, or any other’s family member’s story, and how things are linked and connected. It is like they are putting too many expectations on her, or other family members who are parents, which contradicts with the idea of not having to be perfect, but being okay to make mistakes. I feel like society expects parents to be perfect even when there are blog posts, quotes, books about not having to be perfect. Next, the expectations fall upon adults. It makes becoming an adult an unwanted thing for me. When I was turning 18, I honestly said I could have stopped again at 17 years old. I did not drive, did not drink, did not like 18pg rated movies, did not smoke so anything that other teens are happy about to do legally and by themselves when turning 18 did not apply to me. I felt like I was just getting more responsibilities from society. The state sends a letter to citizen when they turn 18 congratulating them and being a full-fledged adult citizen that is able to vote and pay taxes.

    My mum makes mistakes, but she has changed and learned from them. When she got unwell it was not easy for her, but she was trying. There was no one else there to help, no friends, language barriers so no professional help, my dad had tons of things going on and between the two it was tense at that time, she only had me who she trusted and felt safe to talk to. Doctors that she went to, well they prescribed the wrong medication which made her condition worse. And given all the other things that happened or needed to be taken care of, I honestly to this day do not see who could have supported her beside me. We were in Cuba at that time, oceans away from any sort of family, but family drifted away before then with passing years of us moving to Cuba. (There were still yearly visits though).

    At her worst, she still managed to do things like cook for us, hug us, laundry. It is not easy seeing your mother perish and being put in a position between parents. Both of them had things to deal with and parts of the trauma that came up were between the two, which happened before my birth and very early on. This was the third time I saw her cry, and those were the tears that I saw when I was two.

    There are definitively things which our parents could not teach us because they were not taught nor had anyone to teach them. They include emotional communication or expressing needs/ putting yourself first. When I say parents this extends my aunts (mum’s side) and my dad. Their childhood was definitely not easy and we did not hear much about it when we were younger, but some things do slip through or get notified when you start comparing yourself with others in kindergarten or primary school. My mom and her mom and siblings come from an abusive childhood with tons of moving, not being accepted, some dealing with illnesses – it is amazing what they went through and have accomplished. They never tried to say anything because they found that it was nothing to tell a child. They have changed throughout the years. Not perfect but learning along the way. Sure, emotional needs we not met to our expectations/needs (my older cousins feel the same way). But that is the thing – our expectations/needs, which come from comparisons from what we saw around us. It is different for each of us, for me, I have to say my emotional needs got met a lot as a kid from my mum. Decreased when my mom got unwell. It felt like losing my best friend (my mum was my best friend) along with slowly losing my mom as I saw her light diminish.

    Our family is probably one of the most accepting families I know because they know what it is like not to be accepted, to have to stand on your own. With the experiences they went through, they also do not know how to receive support and help well, which was something I have been doing too, and most likely other family members as well.

    My mum is an over-giver, I most likely learned overgiving from her. She has lost herself and it was still seen after she got better/more stable. That is painful to watch, especially because she was so cheerful and bright. Had so much energy in her. That just decreased over time. She was trying to help us much as possible when she got better, be more present for us, but was limited for her own lack of self-love and self-worth. Over the years, there were moments when I saw her – the supermum; they were always occurred at times when she suddenly had to take care of all of us kids and do a favor for my dad; when she was occupied helping us with our needs. Asking her what she wanted and needed did not help much, as she did not know much either. When she started being able to realize that it became harder for us (family) to speak to her or even ask for needs she became even quieter, hoping not to be a burden.

    It might also help to know that when we left Cuba, or better said fleed for which I had almost given no answers to; it went like this, “we are leaving tomorrow forever.”It was hard to believe considering one of my aunts and her kids were staying over for a visit. Their vacation was cut short, but maybe they were not too surprised because they saw that my mum had changed drastically upon arrival. My dad had to stay in Cuba for another two years for work. Our arrival back home was messy and disappointing. I am not going into details, but today, after one year of getting information from tons of people to help put some puzzle together in the story, it could have been avoided. With more honest communication and being able to emotionally communicate I honestly think many traumas could have been avoided, for me and other family members. In fact, I even had to laugh at the absurdity of it all, and the bad timing of other events that happened. But well, it is what it is.

    My mum and I are very alike. I once told her I did not want to end up like her when she eagerly wanted me to share my thoughts because she knew I was keeping things in. It hurt both of us when I said it. I apologized immediately and she also understood where I was coming from at the time I said those words. She couldn’t remember, like other things that happened and what she said when she was too unwell. When I told her last year, she was trying so hard not to cry and she apologized and never meant it and said that she was not fully herself. I know she never meant it and that she was not fully herself.

    What I would still like to add in this reply. My mom (as well as aunts to their children) have something in common. They all say they could never forgive themselves if we (kids) do not follow our dreams and go our own pathways, they shall not be the ones holding us back. It is difficult to experience family drifting apart and each having different packets to heal from. My older cousins said when they were trying to comfort me or give me advice (they visited me on my birthday last year) “go away from family as far as possible. The younger generation kids will do this a lot quicker than we did.” That statement hurt. They have their own things to heal from. Yet ironically I wonder if they know that their mums agree on that, that they should do their own thing. In the family, I have heard from almost everybody’s pain something about. Then again I am used to it from strangers, classmates, neighbors as well since I was a kid.

    They ( our parents) are acknowledging that fact, and continue to support us the way they can. They will keep telling us to not give up, to believe in ourselves as they believe in us.

    I think there is love, but it is not fully flowing, because they are giving love from a place that is not in abundance. The whole family has it, and anyone could agree with some of the illnesses that go around and things experienced by everyone makes self-love and taking care of yourself first not easy. Some of our parents cannot express verbal love to the person directly, because they simply do not know how, but will express it in another way. They have improved over the years and with us kids starting to take our healing journey (my oldest cousin started with therapy, I followed next) and sharing about healing and learning to communicate our feelings better it is starting to trickle down to other members. I feel a lot closer to my family again. My mum and I have weekly calls since January and she is starting to speak up a bit about her feelings. My sister and I were always close, but now we also communicate feelings a lot better. Since I have taken a protective role for my siblings, she said that she now understands me better and the things I have been going through. My brother and I communicate a lot more than we used to. The same goes for my dad, finally. And he finally heard me, like fully. (In fact, I think that is something I also wanted, for my dad to hear me fully; it happened last week). But what it is, even more, there is more communication and activity between them (parents and siblings) even when I am not around.

    The way I see it, you have to fill your needs first before you can give from a place from abundance. It is natural to take and things like compassion are a choice, which is beautiful. You can be compassionate and give to others, but if your own cup is too empty and you feel like it is not enough, then you can potentially start to fill with bitterness/depression/etc. To get these emotions out you also have to be able to rely on yourself to give yourself what you need, because if you are waiting for someone to fill your needs, it can easily lead to co-dependence, and when the person cannot give you what you need anymore it might even hurt more to feel a void again. It might sound cold at first, but the image I have in my mind is that of a ballerina doing pique arabesque. It comes from a place of understanding and wishing that everyone learns to love themselves and make themselves a priority before extending that love to others.

    It is difficult, but it is possible I believe.  I am trying and hoping that others follow suit, including family members.

    anita, while I know that I have not given my whole life story, but I think one can see that there there was/is lots of trauma for each individual family member and each one is simply trying to make the next generation’s life better, filled with less sadness. The problem is, that we would first have to heal ourselves to provide from a place of abundance.

    By the way, I know this is not how a child would speak. However, I hope my message was comprehensible and shed more clarity on my life.

    Kibou

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