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Peter.
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August 5, 2017 at 4:20 pm #162420
AnonymousInactiveHello everybody, I have a question that I can’t seem to find anyone else asking, though I haven’t searched thoroughly.
The other day I watched a movie (Okja, if you’re curious), and it made me think about whether it would just be better for us humans to not exist. We cause suffering to the planet in the way of global warming (and in many other ways I’m sure). We cause suffering to our animal neighbors in the way of mass farming, deforestation, and overall abuse. And we even cause suffering to our fellow humans, whether it’s our neighbor, Jewish people, our even ourselves.
I try to brighten my outlook by thinking about the good things we are capable of too, but it feels like the good things are outnumbered by the bad, with how much we’ve done. And yes, whole species of animals went extinct, forests burned, and animals did kill each other before we humans existed, but there’s a natural equilibrium to all of that. We really don’t seem to have that balance as a species.
I guess my question is is there a point to living, to our existence as a species? And people have asked that question before, but usually it is addressing a bit of a different, more personal topic. Anyway, I was curious to hear people’s thoughts on the matter, especially a Buddhist approach. It’s a question that has been bothering me of late.
Thank you for taking the time to read.
August 5, 2017 at 11:39 pm #162454AnonymousInactiveWoah, I was in a bit of a hurry and this ended up sounding a little too grave! Excuse me, I didn’t mean it as heavy as it came off. I was curious, and this seemed like a nice place to post to have an interesting discussion on existential matters.
To rewrap up what I said, I wanted to hear what people thought about stuff of this type, such as the nature of existence, and the fate of our species as a whole. I’m a natural overthinking type, and I have been trying to stay up to date on politics and everything that has been going on this year, and am finding myself rather confused.
August 6, 2017 at 4:53 am #162470AnonymousGuestDear Chloe:
I have a practical approach to your topic/ question: “whether it would just be better for us humans to not exist”-
if the answer is yes, that is that it is indeed “better for us humans to not exist”- there is no way for me to make that happen. I cannot wish humanity away and I don’t have the power to eliminate humanity. So I don’t bother with the question.
But I do see great value in your topic/ question, leading me to consider what can I do personally, what is within my power to do about the “suffering to the planet… to our animal… to our fellow humans… our even ourselves”?
I like the last part “even ourselves” as aggression against self, be it verbal aggression alone, as in self talk, is so very common.
anita
August 6, 2017 at 8:37 am #162494
PearceHawkParticipantDear Chloe,
I ask this question to myself nearly everyday, and when I stop thinking about it, it’s not a pretty picture. I have no idea what our purpose is collectively and sometimes, many times I question my own purpose which for me is easier to answer; to try to be better than I was yesterday and to seek out those things that I can help make this a better planet. In doing so I am reminded of the truth you spoke of, that the good is outnumbered by the bad. I sometimes half jokingly tell people that instead of taking a written and an actual driving test to get your driver’s license, instead there should be an IQ test people should take. But because of the very nature that we are that creates a whole new set of problems we would be forced to deal with. I am very much involved with the globe warming issue and while I, along with many people concerned with that research, we as people are not 100% at fault for it. However, we are accelerating it at disastrous speeds. I don’t know what we’re thinking. I think maybe we are not. To not take the consequences seriously and act on them globally has reversible results that are far more damaging than we realize. Bruce Hornsby’s song Look Out Any Window was released back in 1988 if I am correct and it is perhaps even more relevant today. Invite you to Google The Pale Blue Dot by Carl Sagan. Just his very words makes me ask myself, what exactly is our purpose, and while I am happy your post made me think about that again, I have failed to come up with an answer. If we do, then what?
Wishing you peace, love, and hope
Pearce
August 9, 2017 at 2:19 am #162984AnonymousInactiveThank you both for the very thoughtful answers, they were a pleasure to read.
Dear Anita,
What you said about not being able to wish away what already is (in this case, our existence), is a very good point, and one that seems so easy to overlook. I, and others who overthink like myself, would benefit greatly from keeping that in mind, thank you.
And yes, when I mentioned us being harmful to even ourselves, that is exactly what I thought. I have been finding more and more that my greatest enemy is, well, myself! I’m the one I have to live with every day, and yet that’s my most chaotic relationship. I guess that’s what practice is for, after all.
Dear PearceHawk,
Reading your reply felt like you took the thoughts out of my head and wrote them out. The IQ test joke you were talking about is very similar to something my dad and I both joke about as well!
I was thinking more about the discouragement I have felt, and am starting to wonder if perhaps the whole good vs bad issue is just a matter of perspective, very often emotional perspective. I find my thoughts on this topic change from day to day, depending on my outlook. I also happen to lean towards being pessimistic, as do a lot of people I think, and it can be hard to see what is good. If something goes well, we often take it for granted and expect it to always be that way. Not to say being aware or concerned is bad (not at all in fact, it certainly helps when it comes to long-needed change that is for the good), but at least in my case, I have to keep it in check, otherwise I’ll derail myself and any motivation I have.
About the Carl Sagan speech, thank you for bringing that up. I read it a couple of years ago, and sadly forgot about it. Rereading it was wonderful, both heartbreaking and hopeful at the same time. It makes me question my daily actions and treatment of others from a different perspective, and to try to be a little kinder and a little better.
Thank you both again,
Chloe Cutshall.
August 9, 2017 at 6:46 am #163004AnonymousGuestDear Chloe Cutshall:
You are very welcome.
You wrote: “I’m the one I have to live with every day, and yet that’s my most chaotic relationship.”
It is clear to me that the reason why the human world is as chaotic as it is, why humans waste vast amounts of available resources, why humans destroy each other, and have been doing so for so long, is because that personal chaos you mentioned, the one in between one’s ears, is projected into the world and expressed there. So when a person is at war with herself, she makes war with others. It is the expansion of a person’s personal war to the outside, and so it goes.
It is unfortunate that most of us do not have the power to extinguish outside wars, as maybe some politicians do. We do have the power, with hard work and perseverance, to extinguish those personal wars.
anita
August 9, 2017 at 12:20 pm #163134
PeterParticipantWould the earth be better off with out humans?
Yes, environmentally certainly, but it would not be conscious as being so.
Then again, the sun could explode and destroy the earth… and one wonders if in that moment the earth would have felt it had purpose and that perhaps without it the universe might not be better off? Where would such wondering end?
I feel that the answer to the question lies in the question of consciousness which we know surprisingly little. Most spiritual writings, when the worlds are aloud to speak, suggest that Life/Universe/God/Love longs to become conscious of itself. That there is a kind of gravitational push towards a collective unconsciousness becoming a collective consciousness. Even within the study of quantum theory there is a hint that the mind participates in the creation of the material world if more often then not unconsciously. Such a realization would demand we become more conscious individuals. (which could be our purpose/meaning we give to life)
When one starts heading down that path of reasoning for an answer one sees that all experience are valid regardless of our judgments as they push us into consciousness. It is my conjecture that we become conscious when confronted with the problem of opposites. We do not become aware of cold until we have also experienced warmth.
If, in my opinion, the question of meaning is a question of consciousness we bring to life, then the next step is learning how to say Yes to Life as it is, all the good and the bad, all the joy all the pain, and know it to be Love.
The trick is being able to say Yes to Life as it is and still stand for one truths in the moment one knows them as truths. Fulfilling our destiny as we exercise our free will.
In such a place of being the question of if the earth would be better off without humans is no longer asked.
August 9, 2017 at 1:06 pm #163146PeterParticipantIn Buddhism, I think the teaching might be to experience your life consciously, as it is with intention but without being attached to results, as in demanding that the result have certain outcome. One remains engaged in life while detached from results.
August 9, 2017 at 1:14 pm #163148
Vox_PopuliParticipantWho would it be better for then? We wouldn’t exist nor know of the implication of our non existence.
Also I don’t think each and everything has a designated purpose, a lot of times, somethings just “are”. We can define our own purpose….or not .
But to answer the question I don’t think it’s better without us, we could go super deep into that and find a world without our existence and problems would still creep up. It wouldn’t be perfect, and even if it was perfect for who?
August 9, 2017 at 2:53 pm #163162PeterParticipantPerhaps its in how you define purpose. I think everything has a inherent purpose for example a seed purpose is to become a flower, a tree, a weed… That we are capable of recognizing or acknowledging purpose within ourselves and others is different question.
Of course when most people talk about purpose they are usually thinking of something grand and easily recognizable and maybe even applauded by others (so we “know” it counts).
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