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anita.
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December 12, 2025 at 1:30 pm #452900
anitaParticipantDear Peter:
Peter, Oct 19, 2016: “What is this thing we call Love, and If we were to love ourselves unconditionally, what would it look like?… When we love others as ourselves, we say YES to who we and they are… for the most part we don’t really know how to love ourselves very well?”
Oct 27, 2016: “I have often found myself stuck in my stuckness… similar to being depressed about being depressed, stuck in a loop that kept feeding itself. Truth be told, there is a part of me that is comfortable with the familiarity of my stuckness as it can feel like a safe place to be.”
Nov 3, 2016: “I am reminded of a story of a sparrow trapped in an empty grain silo frontally seeking out each ray of light that appeared through various cracks in the wall only to find they were not big enough to get through. Defeated the sparrow lays exhausted on the floor failing to notice the dark tunnel that if traveled would take it under the wall and out of the silo.”
Nov 4, 2025: “The Lord’s Prayer, in its ancient rhythm, asks to be delivered from evil. But I’ve long felt that what it also asks is to be delivered from fear. For it is fear that distorts love, that clouds vision… Fear is the first contraction. Before there is violence, there is fear. Before there is judgment, there is fear. Before there is control, there is fear.”
Dec 11, 2025: “A ‘virgin birth’ was what happens whenever something new emerges without my effort, without my striving, without my fingerprints all over it. It’s the moment when I stop forcing and something unexpected, undeserved, and quietly luminous appears. It’s the wrapped gift under the tree, something I didn’t earn, didn’t orchestrate, didn’t even know to ask for.
“It’s the possibility that arrives unannounced, the insight that wasn’t wrestled into existence, the grace that shows up before I’ve proven myself worthy of it. It’s the way life keeps offering beginnings that don’t depend on my mastery, only on my openness.
“Even in my writing, I’ve noticed that when I stop trying to make things happen, thoughts come together on their own. Sometimes they surprise me. It feels like something new can arise without effort, a kind of inner ‘birth’ that happens when I’m not forcing anything. That’s helped me trust what’s already true in me.”.
Anita, Dec 11 (before reading the your recent post quoted above: “Shh… Peter: You are good! You’ve always been good! I KNOW it!… Still, the image of a boy (Peter) and a girl (Anita) and anyone running freely across a green field with us… Rest in being GOOD. A singular letter fewer than GOD, yet it makes all the difference.”
Back to your words above, “For the most part we don’t really know how to love ourselves…Truth be told, there is a part of me that is comfortable with the familiarity of my stuckness”-
My stuckness, for more than half a century, has been that prison I was in, a prison for people who are not allowed to love themselves (by their own sense of right and wrong) because how can a good person love a bad or a person unworthy of love?. (.. I was good-enough of a person to not love someone undeserving of love.. lol)
Non-duality does not replace or substitute the real need of a person- in real-life, as in the reality of being human- to be labeled “good” by one own self. So to deserve love, so to be offered loved by the self.
Thank you for your kind words in the first 2 paragraphs of your recent post.
May you and I embody love for ourselves and for each other as we happily run on green fields, unstuck, and may others join us
Anita
December 12, 2025 at 10:25 pm #452909
AlessaParticipantHi Peter and Everyone
I was thinking on the story and used Gemini to help me to write about the themes. I think this story exemplifies various aspects of Daoism. I hope you find it as interesting as I do. 🩵
Detailed Analysis of Major Themes in the Shang Qiukai Story
1. The Theme of Spiritual and Psychological MasteryThis is the core philosophical theme derived from Daoist thought, centered on the power of the unified mind.
The Supremacy of Sincerity (Chéng): The story argues that the most potent force in the universe is unqualified sincerity. Shang Qiukai’s success stemmed from his ability to achieve a state of absolute concentration where the mind was not split by fear, doubt, or greed. This concentration was so perfect it made him immune to the conditioned laws of the physical world (fire, gravity).
Effort Meets Grace: The beggar’s life-threatening risks (going “out on a limb”) were the crucible that forged this sincerity. The universe only intervenes when the individual is willing to sacrifice everything, suggesting that grace (or reward) meets courage at the point of ultimate commitment.
Accidental Mastery: The beggar did not train for this power; he accidentally achieved the mental state of the Daoist “True Man” by simply trying to survive the aristocratic game. His profound desperation served as a shortcut to spiritual non-attachment.
2. The Theme of Social and Karmic Justice
This theme addresses the moral imbalance of the world and its ultimate reversal by universal law (Karma/Fate).
The Pitfalls of Humanity (The Aristocrats): The aristocrats represent the spiritual and moral vices and delusions that arise from power and wealth (malice, cruelty, greed, calculation). They tried to inflict suffering but were ultimately undone by their own moral corruption.
The Karmic Inversion: The universe actively corrects the moral imbalance. The aristocrats were punished not by physical harm, but by humiliation, dependence, and fear—a consequence directly proportional to their malicious intent.
The Beggar as a Force of Nature: The beggar’s morality (non-malice and sincerity) and his poverty (his complete disposability) combined to make him a Force of Nature that defied the rules of the aristocrats’ world. The universe favored his essential goodness over their active vice.
3. The Theme of Moral Efficacy Despite Ignorance (The Flawed Foundation)
This crucial theme, hinted at by philosophical commentary (like that of Confucius), provides the final ethical critique.
Ignorance as the Catalyst: The beggar’s power was rooted in his ignorance of the moral and factual truth: he believed a lie about the reward and the noble’s power. His unwavering trust was born from this lack of wisdom.
The Unstable Victory: This means the beggar’s success, while miraculous, was fundamentally unstable and unwise. True, enduring virtue (Zhi) requires conscious knowledge and ethical discernment, not blind faith in deceit.
The Confucian Critique: The final commentary highlights that true moral power must be based on a foundation of conscious virtue and knowledge of right and wrong, rather than mere desperation and accidental single-mindedness achieved through a corrupt means.
4. The Theme of The Psychology of Survival and Class
This theme grounds the philosophy in the harsh reality of social stratification and the mindset of the poor.
The Catalyst of Deprivation: The beggar’s chronic hunger and cold were the engine of his desperation, eliminating his rational fear and creating the psychological necessity for his absolute commitment.
Normalization of Abuse: His life of low status and normalized abuse made him compliant and willing to accept the extreme risks, setting the stage for his miraculous effort.
Security as the True Reward: The reward of “meat and silk” was the perfect symbolic negation of his initial suffering. This fulfillment of basic needs is seen as the necessary step that opens the mind to spiritual practice, transforming a desperate man into a secure individual.
December 13, 2025 at 7:06 am #452920
anitaParticipantDear Alessa:
Thank you for posting the story’s themes and for introducing to me the term Cheng 🙏 🌸 🩵
A little processing & meditating on it: In Daoism (or Taoism), the Dao is the natural order of the universe — the way things flow when they’re in harmony. It’s not something you control; it’s something you align with, like a river: you can fight the current, or you can move with it.
Daoists believe that when your mind is completely sincere and unified (Chéng), you stop resisting the natural flow. No fear, no greed, no doubt — just pure focus. This sincerity is powerful because it removes inner conflict. You’re not split between “should I?” and “shouldn’t I?” — you’re fully present.
When you align with the Dao, you tap into a larger energy than your own. Instead of forcing things, you move with the natural rhythm, which makes actions feel effortless yet powerful. This can bring clarity (seeing the right path clearly) or strength (doing things you didn’t think possible).
Daoist thought teaches that true sincerity clears away inner noise, allowing you to merge with the natural flow of life. In that state, you gain strength and clarity not because you force it, but because the universe itself supports you.
In Chinese philosophy, Chéng (诚) means true sincerity — being completely genuine, without deceit or inner conflict. It’s more than honesty; it’s a state where your heart, mind, and actions are perfectly aligned with truth and the natural order (the Dao).
In Daoist stories (like Shang Qiukai), sincerity is so strong it can transcend ordinary limits, because the universe “responds” to pure, undivided intent.
Confucians say without sincerity, virtue is fake. True virtue must be rooted in sincerity of heart. Imagine someone promising to help a friend: if they say it but secretly resent it → not sincere. If they truly mean it, feel it, and act on it wholeheartedly → Chéng.
Daoism adds: when you reach this state of sincerity, you’re not just being moral — you’re flowing with the Dao, and that flow itself empowers you.
In short: Chéng (诚) is sincerity as total authenticity — the unity of heart, mind, and action. In Confucianism, it’s the root of morality; in Daoism, it’s the key to aligning with the Dao and unlocking hidden strength.
🤍 Anita
December 13, 2025 at 9:45 am #452926
anitaParticipantDear Peter:
I want to apologize for the previous message that I addressed to you. I feel that I analyzed you (again) without your permission.
I used to do a lot of that with members (a bad habit)- offering my analyses without it being asked for (as in your case), and without checking first if it is okay with the person to be analyzed by me. I don’t want to do that anymore.
When I quoted you, in my mind, I thought you might like it, that it’d feel good that your words have been attended to, that they matter. Previously, you thanked me for going back in time and quoting you. So, I thought it’d be okay. Is it?
So, I’ll stop here. No more analyzing without an invitation or consent.
I hope you are having a Pleasant Cheng Weekend (PCW)
🤍 Anita
December 15, 2025 at 8:15 am #452987
PeterParticipantHi Alessa,
I really enjoyed reading your reflections on the Shang Qiukai story. The way you pulled out those Daoist themes got me thinking about the figure of the Holy Fool and that call to “be like children.” There’s a kind of sincerity that comes not from wisdom but from innocence and openness that isn’t weighed down by calculation or fear. Shang Qiukai’s accidental mastery feels a lot like that childlike trust, where desperation stripped everything away except pure sincerity.
At the same time, the Confucian critique you highlighted raises an important tension: lasting moral power must rest on knowledge and discernment, not merely on desperation or ignorance. This begs the question of how one might remain sincerely innocent while also wise.
My thought is that when belief matures into trust, when one no longer merely believes but knows their truth… there is a risk of self-deception. Yet the litmus test, I think, is compassion. If sincerity arises from compassion, it is not foolishness but authentic truth. And if wisdom is guided by compassion, it avoids becoming rigid or calculating.
So perhaps innocence and wisdom aren’t opposites at all. Innocence keeps us open, wisdom keeps us grounded, and compassion ties the two together. In that balance, sincerity becomes both childlike and enduring, something that feels authentic and ethically sound at the same time.
Copilot broke it down as a Paradox of Innocence and Wisdom
Trust vs. Belief:
– Innocence trusts without needing proof;
– wisdom knows through discernment.
Compassion bridges the two.
– Innocence without compassion risks naivety or harm.
– Wisdom without compassion risks cold calculation.Compassion ensures sincerity remains pure while wisdom remains humane.
– The Fool’s Path: Acts sincerely, but risks instability.
– The Sage’s Path: Acts wisely, but risks losing spontaneity.
The Compassionate Path: Integrates both: innocence preserved through openness, wisdom grounded in ethical clarity.
– If sincerity arises from compassion, it is not mere foolishness.
– If wisdom is guided by compassion, it avoids rigidity.Thus, compassion allows one to “fool themselves” into innocence while remaining truly wise. 🙂
On the topic of flow, I’ve found that leaning into that trust or faith, without the weight of doctrine, creates a kind of openness where compassion naturally arises and illuminates the path ahead. In that space, flow isn’t about effort or control, but about allowing sincerity and compassion to guide each step.
December 15, 2025 at 9:16 am #452988
PeterParticipantAnita, no need for apologies. I really appreciate your reflections and how you connect them to your lived experience. What strikes me, though, is that sometimes the analysis seems to keep you-us circling in the past rather than moving forward. I recognize that may be a projection of a pattern I notice in myself.
Something I’ve been working on is learning to trust the realizations that come and creating space for them to shape me… a step I see missing in some of my older posts. It’s not easy, because the pull of old patterns and familiar thoughts is strong, especially with my tendency to overthink. Yet I’m learning that when I lean into one insight and live from it, even briefly, it opens up space for movement and flow.
I wonder what it might feel like for you to pick one of your own realization, maybe about goodness, or about love arising when we stop forcing, and simply rest in it, trusting it as truth that doesn’t need reinforcing with analysis or justification. Perhaps that could be a way to step into the freedom you already glimpse.
This, to me, is how I imagine Flow.. much like the Tao, moving not by effort but by trust in what already is.
December 15, 2025 at 12:42 pm #453000
anitaParticipantHi Dear Peter:
“Anita, no need for apologies…”- Thank you, Peter.
“What strikes me, though, is that sometimes the analysis seems to keep you-us circling in the past rather than moving forward. I recognize that may be a projection of a pattern I notice in myself.”-
At this point in my life, in these days, my analyses (helped by Copilot) help me move forward. Thing is (perhaps you don’t know it about me), I have learning disabilities, so I repeat analyses because I forget and need to refresh, not that I am stuck but rather.. I forget and need a lot of repetition. So, it’s not overthinking for me.. It’s forgetting and having to re-think. Think from the beginning.
Sincerely, Peter, mentally, emotionally, relationally, I am doing a whole lot better than I ever did.
“I wonder what it might feel like for you to pick one of your own realization, maybe about goodness, or about love arising when we stop forcing, and simply rest in it, trusting it as truth that doesn’t need reinforcing with analysis or justification. Perhaps that could be a way to step into the freedom you already glimpse.”-
Well, it happened today in the “Real Spirituality” thread. Following the submission of the post there, I did rest in what I expressed there, I trusted in the truth I expressed there and I had let it go. I wasn’t even afraid.
“This, to me, is how I imagine Flow.. much like the Tao, moving not by effort but by trust in what already is.”- The Flow is difficult for me because of the Tourette tics which involve bodily tension and holding my breath with every tic. I read that although I can’t aim at stopping the tics, I can change my relationship to them. Let them Flow, instead of resisting them.. Practice Tic Tao (TT), lol.
🤍 Anita
December 15, 2025 at 1:59 pm #453001
PeterParticipantAnita, if I’m hearing you correctly, ‘Flow’ takes shape for you right now through repetition and re‑evaluation, making sure realizations stay present in your awareness. That is what helps you move forward.
For me, with a shared anxiety of forgetting, I’m experimenting with something different, resting in a realization and trusting it without needing to revisit it. I hear this isn’t where you are at the moment, and that’s perfectly okay.
I wonder if I should use a different word than Flow to describe it. Maybe Unfolding or Presence fits better?
What I hold for you, and for myself, is the possibility that, in time, the realizations we’ve touched, especially the sense of being enough, might feel so steady and trusted that they simply live in us without effort. Not as something to chase or reinforce, but as a quiet Truth that carries and shapes us.
Perhaps part of the journey is learning how to live with the fear of forgetting and finding ways to let truth stay alive without needing to grasp it so tightly. And Flow, whatever word we use for it, is a something being discovered, each in our own rhythm, connected in the movement toward living more freely.
December 15, 2025 at 5:58 pm #453003
anitaParticipantDear Peter:
You are inviting me to pick one truth I believe (like “I am good”), stop re‑checking it, and let it live inside me without effort.
What’s been in my way is another belief: that my mother was good, and since she told me I was bad, she must be right. That message was drilled into me for decades, and I still find myself pulled back into seeing her as good, which automatically means I am bad. It’s like old pathways in my brain that keep re‑activating.
Yet I wonder now, following your invitation0: what if I build a new pathway that doesn’t depend on her at all? One that simply says “I am good,” without needing to see her in any particular way. A truth that is mine alone, one that’s not dependent on seeing her any which way?
The last three words in your post were “living more freely.” Maybe this is my way of stepping into what you call Flow—or Presence—by letting “I am good” live in me freely, without needing her permission, and discovering how that truth can carry me forward.
I’d be curious to read how this idea of separating my goodness from her image resonates with you, since you’ve been exploring Flow in your own way.
🤍 Anita
December 15, 2025 at 11:56 pm #453011
RobertaParticipantDear Anita
That was interesting about the deep seatedness of if X is this then Y has to be that.
What do you believe good is? & how do you manifest it? This may help you clarify & reinforce the neural pathways you want to cultivate.
Does drawing/painting & or physically writing with a pen help?
For me visualization & mantra are a good medium to counteract negativity that arises in my mind & helps me move forward in a positive way.
Best wishes
RobertaDecember 16, 2025 at 8:10 am #453020
PeterParticipantAnita, I hear how strongly your mother’s old message still echoes, pulling you back into “she was good, so I must be bad.” And yet I also see the courage in your wondering: what if my goodness doesn’t depend on her at all?
I realize my language around Flow may have been confusing. You’ve described it as spontaneity, like a river moving moment to moment. What I’ve been pointing toward is Flow as arising and return — remembering and forgetting — while trusting that the truths we’ve realized keep shaping us even when we don’t hold them tightly.
Still, as the story of Shang Qiukai reminds us, we can sincerely believe something that isn’t true, like “my goodness depends on mother.” That’s why I lean into compassion as a Truth as it reveals whether a belief is true or not. If a belief traps us in pain, compassion shows us it cannot be the deeper truth.
To be candid, I find your question both confusing and challenging, because the word “goodness” doesn’t resonate with me. What does connect is the deeper sense of being enough, a wound that feels almost primal. That’s where Flow or Presence feels most alive for me: not in defining goodness, but in learning to trust that even when I forget, the truth of being enough keeps working quietly within.
December 16, 2025 at 8:21 am #453021
PeterParticipantTo simplify: I may forget or remember, but I’m learning to trust compassion as the deeper Truth that keeps shaping us. For me, Unfolding Presence is becoming a kind of faith without doctrine, creating space were compassion reveals what’s ‘True‘ and free us from beliefs can trap us in pain.
December 16, 2025 at 9:08 am #453031
anitaParticipantDear Roberta:
“What do you believe good is? & how do you manifest it?”- Good is first Do-No-Harm, and second, to Help people who need help. And to help in ways that don’t harm.
For example, my mother helped me shower and dress me even when I was a teenager. It was Harmful Help (HH), the kind of help I so wish I never received because it squashed my autonomy and shamed me.
Another example of HH: in these forums, with the intent to help (and to please myself because I enjoy analyzing people), I have analyzed OPs who didn’t ask for my analyses, and I have no doubt that sometimes my analyses harmed people, at least, made them feel uncomfortable, intruded upon.
Manifesting good has to involve awareness and honest self reflection in regard to what it is that motivates me, what I need, and what the other person needs.
“Does drawing/painting & or physically writing with a pen help?”- it used to, very much so. I hardly ever write and I haven’t drawn or painted for years and years.
“For me visualization & mantra are a good medium to counteract negativity that arises in my mind & helps me move forward in a positive way.”- I use your GRACE mantra every single day, in a paraphrased, shortened form. Thank you, Roberta!
Best wishes back to you, Anita
December 16, 2025 at 9:10 am #453032
anitaParticipantHi Peter: Got to run, so I’ll reply to you in hours from now.
December 16, 2025 at 9:47 am #453033
anitaParticipantHi again, Peter:
As I was preparing to leave, after reading your recent 2 posts, it occurred to me what I think you mean: that all past efforts on your part to earn self worth (including being “good”) failed and now, what is working for you is the non-effort way, to connect with your Tao essence that requires you to NOT try anything anymore, just.. sort of melt into what you are beyond efforts, labels, etc. Did I understand correctly?
Anita
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine. 