Another double posting, Peter (this time only 3 minutes apart). I am taking a Tao break (just a joke 😊) and will get back to you later.

Hi Peter/ Everyone:

My best understanding is that evil in the context of Taoism = human actions that go against The Flow/ Tao.

Actions Going Against the Flow (the Tao):

1) Forcing outcomes- Examples: A manager micromanages every detail of a project, pushing employees to meet unrealistic deadlines. Instead of trusting the team’s rhythm, they force results, creating stress and burnout; one partner pressures the other to commit to marriage before they feel ready, creating tension and resistance; A thief breaks into a home to take possessions, forcing their will on others and disrupting peace; A parent insists their child must become a doctor, ignoring the child’s interests in art or music. This creates resistance and resentment.

2) Excessive striving- Examples: A student pulls all-nighters for weeks, cramming for exams, ignoring sleep and health. The imbalance leads to exhaustion and poor performance, despite the effort; A friend constantly tries to “fix” the relationship by overanalyzing every interaction, scheduling endless talks, and pushing for perfection, which drains both sides; A parent overschedules their child with endless lessons, sports, and tutoring, leaving no room for rest or play. The child feels pressured and exhausted.

3) Ignoring nature- Examples: A company clears forests recklessly for short-term profit; Illegal dumping of toxic waste into rivers, destroying ecosystems and communities for short-term gain; A parent disregards their child’s temperament (e.g., introverted vs. extroverted) and forces them into social situations that feel unnatural, causing stress.

4) Rigid moral judgments- Examples: Someone condemns a neighbor harshly for lifestyle choices (diet, clothing, beliefs), creating division instead of understanding. They cling to “right vs. wrong” without compassion; A parent harshly labels their child as “lazy” or “bad” for struggling in school, instead of recognizing different learning styles or challenges.

5) Artificial living- Example: A person buys luxury items they don’t need to impress other; A couple stays together only for appearances, pretending to be happy for social status, while hiding resentment and disconnection; Parents push their child to maintain appearances (perfect grades, perfect behavior) for social status, rather than nurturing authenticity and well-being.

🍃 Actions Going With the Flow (the Tao):

1) Wu Wei (Effortless Action)- Examples: A surfer rides the waves by adjusting to their natural rhythm instead of fighting them. They act skillfully but without force; Two friends enjoy each other’s company without planning or forcing activities — they simply let the day unfold naturally; A community volunteer helps distribute food to those in need, acting naturally and without seeking recognition; A parent notices their child loves drawing and naturally provides paper and crayons, supporting the interest without pressure.

2) Spontaneity- Examples: Friends go for a walk and stumble upon a street festival. Instead of sticking rigidly to their plan, they join in and enjoy the moment; A passerby sees someone struggling with heavy bags and instinctively offers to help, without planning or obligation; A parent joins their child in an impromptu backyard game, letting joy guide the moment instead of sticking to rigid schedules.

3) Simplicity- Examples: A family chooses to live in a small home, grow their own food, and avoid clutter; A couple chooses to spend quiet evenings cooking together instead of chasing extravagant outings, finding peace in shared simplicity; A neighbor shares homegrown vegetables with others, fostering connection through simple generosity.

4) Harmony with nature- Examples: A gardener plants according to the seasons, using compost and rainwater. They work with the cycles of nature rather than against them; A family spends time outdoors hiking or gardening together, strengthening bonds by aligning with natural rhythms; A group organizes a river clean-up, restoring balance to the environment and benefiting all.

5) Humility and openness- Examples: In a heated meeting, one person admits they don’t have all the answers and listens to others. This openness diffuses tension and leads to better collaboration; During an argument, one friend admits they may have misunderstood and listens openly, allowing reconciliation instead of escalation; A parent admits to their child, “I don’t know everything, but let’s learn together,” modeling openness and curiosity instead of authority and rigidity.

Key Takeaway- Against the Tao: appearances, control, ego, imbalance, judgment, pressure, resistance.

With the Tao: authenticity, balance, ease, flow, humility, support, trust.

Well, I am sold on Tao 😊

🤍 Anita

Hi Peter

Thank you for this lovely thread. 🩵

I hope it’s okay if I share a story from a Daoist text. It is one of my favourites and came to mind reading your thread. It took me a while to find it. 🩵

There was a man of the Fan clan named Zihua who supported so many private mercenaries that the whole country submitted to him. He was a favorite of the ruler of Jin, and his status was higher than the top ministers of state even though he held no office. Anyone he regarded specially would be given a title by the state of Jin; anyone he particularly disdained would be banished by the state of Jin. Those who flocked to his mansion were as numerous as attendees at court.

Zihua had his mercenaries attack each other in battles of wits and strive to overcome each other in contests of strength. Even if they were wounded right before his eyes, he didn’t care. They sported like this all day and night, to the point where it had almost become a custom of the country.

Hesheng and Zibo were top henchmen of the Fan clan. Going on a trip, they passed through a remote area where they lodged at the house of a farmer, Shang Qiukai. During the night, Hesheng and Zibo were talking about the prestige and influence of Zihua, who could cause the thriving to perish and the lost to survive, impoverish the rich and enrich the poor.

Now Shang Qiukai, who had all along suffered hunger and cold, overhead this. Inspired, he borrowed some provisions, loaded them in a
basket, and went to the estate of Zihua.

Zihua’s hangers-on were all hereditary aristocrats; they dressed in silk, rode in fancy chariots, swaggered around gazing into the distance. When they saw how old and decrepit Shang Qiukai was, his face burnt black and his clothes unkempt, they all looked down on him. They treated him with contempt, playing tricks on him, knocking and shoving him around, doing as they pleased.

Through all this, Shang Qiukai never showed any sign of anger. Eventually the hangers-on ran out of tricks and got tired of making fun of him. Finally they took him up in a high tower, where someone claimed that anyone who jumped off would get a reward of a hundred pieces of gold. They all scrambled as if to respond, so Shang Qiukai thought it was true and jumped before anyone else could. Like a bird in flight, he floated to the ground, with no injury to skin and bones.

The Fan clan’s gang thought this was accidental, and didn’t make much of it. In the same vein, they pointed out a wild river bend and said, “There’s a valuable pearl down there; if you can swim, you can get it.” Going along once again, Shang Qiukai plunged into the rapids. When he emerged, he actually had found a pearl down there. Now the gang began to wonder. For the first time Zihua admitted him to the ranks of those who ate
meat and wore silk.

Before long, a fire broke out in the Fan family storehouse. Zihua declared, “Anyone who can go into the fire and get the silks out will be rewarded according to how much he retrieves.” Shang Qiukai went in calmly, going back and forth in and out of the fire without getting sooty or being burned. The Fan clan gang thought he must be a master of the Tao, so they made a collective apology: “We played tricks on you, not knowing you were a master of the Tao; we abused you, not knowing you were a spiritual person. You must think us fools! You must think us deaf and blind! May we ask, what is your Way?”

Shang Qiukai said, “I have no Way. I don’t even know my own mind. Even so, there is something to this. I’ll try to tell you what it is.
“Earlier two of your men lodged at my house, and I heard them praising the influence of the Fan clan, which could cause the thriving to perish or the lost to survive, impoverish the rich or enrich the poor. I took this to be true without a second thought, so I came regardless of the distance. Then when I got here, I thought everything your gang said was true, and my only fear was not to be able to take it seriously enough to carry it out successfully—I didn’t know what my physical body was doing, or where profit or harm were—I was completely single-minded. Things did not prove otherwise, as you can see; but now that I know your gang was fooling me, I’m suspicious within and on guard without; it’s a lucky thing, in retrospect, I wasn’t burned or drowned. I’m feverish with shock, shivering with fear! How could I get close to water or fire again?”

After this, whenever members of the Fan clan’s gang encountered beggars or horse doctors on the road, they didn’t dare abuse them; they’d always get down out of their chariots and salute them.

Zaiwo heard about this and told Confucius. Confucius said, “Didn’t you know? When people are completely sincere, that can affect things. It can move heaven and earth, influence ghosts and spirits, grant freedom in all ways, with no opposition, not just walking on dangerous precipices or plunging into water and fire. Shang Qiukai believed in falsehoods, and even then things did not betray him—how about if other and self are both truthful! Take note of this!”

… Another double posting, Peter, 10 min apart, didn’t read your most recent post before I submitted mine