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October 14, 2022 at 12:36 am #408442aVoidParticipant
The hardest part of getting better, is leaving behind all you know. The life that raised you, shaped you and turned you into the person you are today. All the bad habits that you practiced habitually. Smoking cigarettes, drinking hard liquor, whatever it may be. This was your solace. So getting better is hard because there are times when you miss it. You miss all the sad nights spent intoxicating yourself and crying all your tears away. Feeling bad about your life. Because this was all you had. Life is too hard, so why try. Either way, you’ll suffer.
This is how I feel. But the reality is I can either suffer to be worse, or suffer to be better. Friedrich Nietzsche once said: To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering. This is where hope comes in. We all need hope, and that’s why religion exists. But I can’t bring myself to believe in the ideologies of any religion. This is a buddha forum, so many people here will find their faith in buddha. For me, I found stoicism. Both Buddhism and Stoicism believe that life has an inevitable suffering. For Buddhism finds meaning by ending suffering. Stoicism finds meaning by accepting suffering.
Both Buddhism and Stoicism share a lot of similarities, but they differ slightly. It’s looking into these slight differences where you can find what resonates with you. But no matter what you practice, we all believe we are here to promote the common good, through improving ourselves and leaving the world a better place.
October 14, 2022 at 11:30 am #408466AnonymousGuestDear aVoid:
You express yourself so well.. I am impressed!
“Both Buddhism and Stoicism believe that life has an inevitable suffering. For Buddhism finds meaning by ending suffering. Stoicism finds meaning by accepting suffering“. I wanted to read more about stoicism and found it very simply and clearly outlined in minimalism. com/ articles/ stoicism meaning:
“At the heart of the Stoic way of living is the ongoing process of: * developing self-control * exercising clear judgment, and * overcoming destructive emotions. The following 5 principles provide a roadmap to following the Stoic philosophy: 1. Manage your expectations and judgments… When there’s a big gap between what you want or expect and reality, it causes anxiety, frustration, and discord. You can have dreams, hopes, and beliefs, but better that they are sensible”.
“2. Be realistic about what you have the power to change…There’s a lot about life you have no ability to influence. However, there’s much you can change (namely your own thoughts, habits and actions). Western society — the U.S. in particular — has an obsession with winning and succeeding. In reality, there are things that you won’t be able to do, even if you ‘put your mind to it’. Learn how to distinguish what’s in your power and what’s not. A good rule of thumb is to start with self”.
“3. Understand the meaning of equanimity— and practice it… Equanimity means calm and composure… which is central to the philosophy. Humans have a built in fight or flight mechanism that triggers anytime there’s a perceived threat… With practice you can learn how to master this mechanism instead of allowing it to command you”.
“4. Call out your emotions for exactly what they are… In the midst of adverse situations your thoughts are typically muddled by overpowering emotions, so it’s easy to misinterpret what you are really feeling. By calming down enough to name the emotion and its underlying cause, you’ll be better able to address the situation in an appropriate way. One unfounded myth of Stoicism is that practitioners seek to suppress emotions. But what they really do is recognize emotions and then put them in check so they don’t cause damage”.
“5. Live in harmony with nature — particularly human nature… replace impulse behavior with purpose, intention, and logic.”
Thank you, aVoid for filling a void within me in regard to understanding stoicism!
anita
October 15, 2022 at 2:03 am #408481TeeParticipantDear aVoid,
Both Buddhism and Stoicism believe that life has an inevitable suffering. For Buddhism finds meaning by ending suffering. Stoicism finds meaning by accepting suffering.
I am not a Buddhist myself but am following a Buddhist-based psychotherapist on youtube. Her name is Barbara Heffernan. She explains that according to Buddhism, there is inevitable (or unavoidable) suffering, and there is also avoidable suffering.
Unavoidable suffering and pain can be due to illness, death of a loved one, war, accidents etc… Avoidable suffering is a product of our false beliefs, when we tell ourselves stories which aren’t true (e.g. that we are doomed, or that we are worthless), and this adds to our suffering. So, our false perceptions and false beliefs can lead to suffering that could be avoided.
So when you say you decided to accept suffering, I say yes, good decision, however I would suggest this: accept only the inevitable suffering. Don’t accept and create avoidable suffering.
October 24, 2022 at 9:53 am #408979AnonymousGuestHow are you, aVoid?
anita
October 24, 2022 at 12:12 pm #408990PeterParticipantso many people here will find their faith in buddha
It is my understanding that Buddhahood is a state of becoming, a state of consciousness. Gautama becomes Buddha when he awakened. When Gautama became Buddha he had to face the problem of teaching what could not be taught. He did not want his followers to blindly accept his teaching but to experience them, find the truth. the path, for themselves.
Fear is to Courage as Doubt is to Faith. The opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty.
Buddhism finds meaning by ending suffering. Stoicism finds meaning by accepting suffering.
I don’t believe that is a accurate statement about Buddhism. For a Buddhist the question of meaning is unskillful, the notion of ‘finding meaning’ itself a source of suffering. The question of meaning being pointless when you are the answer. Nirvana, the end of suffering, is a state that Transends the opposites/duality (measuring) and thus bliss. (end to measuring which we are really, really, really bad at)
no matter what you practice, we all believe we are here to promote the common good, through improving ourselves and leaving the world a better place
I would agree. The difficulty of course is the very notion/awareness of THE ‘Good’ and ‘Better’. A Buddhist might say that it is in the defining, attaching, measuring and judging that we create suffering. How to avoid the trap of measuring (dualism – ego consciousness) and attachment and remain fully engaged with Life as it is. How to avoid the ‘why bother?’ – or ‘suicide’ as Camus might say) Thus the birth of all philosophy and wisdom traditions.
What is the point of prayer and meditation?
Old woman: To bring you closer to the Great Mystery.
So I can understand it?
Old: woman: No. So you can participate in it.
– Richard Wagamese
October 24, 2022 at 12:15 pm #408992PeterParticipantwould not let me edit the bad
What is the point of prayer and meditation?
Old woman: To bring you closer to the Great Mystery.
So I can understand it?
Old: woman: No. So you can participate in it.
Richard WagameseNovember 21, 2022 at 8:04 pm #410508aVoidParticipantIt’s been some time since I came back here. I have been focused on becoming more productive with my time. I’m still not where I want to be, but I see progress. I am doing better than before. But my existence in this world feels lonely and it is sometimes hard to sincerely smile.
I do believe that we are living in a world were we have to suffer alone. I do not think that our togetherness is enough anymore. I believe this because of the world we live in is slowly collapsing. The economy is failing, society has turned to exiling people based on beliefs, and we are all depressed. We are going back to the stone age. Maybe one day we can come together and realize the hell we created for ourselves. But if not, we will create something, such as a machine with AI so intelligent that it learns that the human race a parasite to the world and there is genocide until mankind is no more.
November 22, 2022 at 8:09 am #410523AnonymousGuestDear aVoid:
“I see progress. I am doing better than before“- congrats for making progress!
As I read your recent post, I thought to myself: finally, I find a person (you) whose pessimism regarding the future of humanity matches mine. But here is what I found out some time ago: the misery I envision in the future has already happened in my life. Thinking back about growing up (or as I prefer to call it, growing in) with my mother, that eternity-feeling experience felt so miserable, so distressing, that subjectively: I already experienced the end of humanity.
Looking for a possible parallel in your life, I find this: “Just like a lot of people, I’ve had a rough childhood. My mother was absent and my father was strict. His family abused me and I resented them for it. I spent most my life wanting revenge. I had become addicted to alcohol and other vices. I wanted to end my life so many times, and I’ve tried” (July 28, 2022 in your Please Help Me thread).
On that same day, you wrote: “I moved across the country to start over“- I too moved far away from my Original Misery (OM), across continents, seas and an ocean… there were moments, days, weeks that felt like freedom, but all too soon, the OM made itself all too known once again.
“I think it’s safe to say that I have chronic depression“, you wrote on that same day. I think of my OM (the misery of my childhood) as chronic depression.
You wrote on Aug 15, 2022: “I understand that I’ve got some deep trauma from my childhood. I suffered greatly and when I became independent I continued to suffer because the pain has burrowed so deep into my soul“- that’s the OM, deeply burrowed in one’s soul.
On that same day, you wrote: “I always hear his voice in my head, convincing me that the only thing this world has to offer is the inevitable continuing of pain and loneliness. Silently, I’ve been living in my own hell. And so many times I dream to end it all“- this pain, this OM, is one own’s hell. I too had the desire, as a child and onward, to end my life (not anymore). I believe that it’s the same misery of childhood that we keep feeling.
You wrote yesterday, Nov 21, 2022: “My existence in this world feels lonely and it is sometimes hard to sincerely smile. I do believe that we are living in a world where we have to suffer alone… The economy is failing… we are all depressed“- you felt lonely when the economy was booming, didn’t you? I suffered my OM in all kinds of economies, in different countries, and I felt it long ago, before Climate Change was a thing in the news and on people’s minds.
There is a way to lessen and lessen that OM, I lessened it and I am not done lessening it. Maybe we can cooperate here, on your thread, for the purpose of lessening our individual and collective OM. Please let me know if any part of what I am saying here makes sense to you.
anita
November 22, 2022 at 8:20 pm #410565aVoidParticipantIt makes sense. I just find that there is too much divide in the world created by greed. You look around at these useless, giant mansions celebrities live in with their families, when at the same time you can travel to a unfortunate part of the world and you’ll find a family two times the size living in a bungalow.
Yet the latter family will seem happier. This is because we are consumers. We want more and more. We can never be grateful with what we have. A good example of this is a book by Ayn Rand called, Atlas Shrugged. The book surrounds the authors belief that “the world is best served when individuals act entirely in their own rational self-interest.” Though, as you can see that society has become selfish. Society as a whole does act in it’s in selfish goals. But I do not see any benefit of this. Too many are suffering alone, depressed and lonely.
November 23, 2022 at 9:04 am #410588AnonymousGuestDear aVoid:
“The book surrounds the author’s belief that ‘the world is best served when individuals act entirely in their own rational self-interest‘”- society is best served when individuals act for the benefit of all.
anita
November 28, 2022 at 5:49 pm #410914AnonymousGuestHow are you, aVoid? I would like to read from you from time to time, read about your progress, your thoughts and feelings.
anita
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