HomeâForumsâRelationshipsâEmotionally Abused Man
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April 3, 2023 at 10:09 am #417048JohnParticipant
Last night I talked to my friend for over an hour. Â I think she is still my friend but I am not really sure. Â We still communicate quite frequently and it is usually positive, relaxed and friendly. Â I was thinking it was 3 years since I last saw her but to my horror I worked out it was 4. Â She wasnât speaking to me for over year after the last break up but eventually reached out to tell me she had moved on and from there we began to communicate every few weeks by âphone and more frequently by text. Â This is a pattern of behaviour that we have gone through several times. Â After the first break up I didnât see her for 10 years but we still communicated. Â After 10 years, I was just beginning to get used to the idea of not seeing her and then we got back together as if we had never been apart. Â Carried on where we left off. Â There have been other extended break ups and reconciliations. Â Needless to say our on again, off again history gives me hope that one day she will let me back into her life just a little more. Â That would mean a lot to me and make me much happier but I donât think it will happen. Â I asked if I could see her one last time as I am trying to let go and move on. Â Our long history is such that neither of us has been much good at doing that. Â Many times over the last 4 years I have asked if we can meet and it has always been declined. Â Eventually, I stopped asking as the rejections were painful. Â I havenât really understand why we canât meet as we are still on good speaking terms and meeting as old friends seems to me like a perfectly natural thing to do. Â Last night I asked again. Â She said most definitely not which eventually turned into âIâll have a think about itâ. Â Needless to say I live in hope that we will meet and that it can lead to some sort of closure for me but what I really want is to be her friend again.
April 3, 2023 at 2:16 pm #417053PeterParticipantNeedless to say our on again, off again history gives me hope that one day she will let me back into her life
Having been were you are I can’t help but wonder if at some level we invite the experience of being abused. Is that karma… as in our actions create results and we ought not be surprised when they do.
Zen Buddhism suggests that suffering arises when we want things to be other than how they are and that where there is hope, there is fear and where there is fear there is hope. Two sides of the same coin where the two can’t be separated from each other. Non duality has us imagine that by naming a pair of opposites a coin we have solved the problem of duality… only we can’t help ourselves from picking the coin up, flipping it into the air and calling heads OR tails and so we suffer. We hope to escape fear and wonder why fear keeps chasing us.
The Way suggests that freedom from fear is to become hopeless, which goes against almost every thing we have been taught. You got to have hope… right? OR maybe, what if, Liberated from hope and fear, we are free to discover clarity and energy in the present moment.
If we think about it our notion of hope almost always involves looking backwards to some unwanted past we wish to change or to some imagined future where where we can get Life to work out as we would have it be (read ego/control). Keeping us stuck flipping coins, this time for sure, in only, maybe, what if, should of, could of.. so we suffer.
What would your contact with your friend look like without the baggage of the hope/fear coin?
In Zen the notion of hopelessness is not the same notion as despair. That’s something we have been taught to believe, something I’ve bought into, only now I’m not so sure. Giving up the hope/fear coin is about learning to sit in, leaning into impermanence, groundlessness and uncertainty, which is actually the reality of everyone moment. Without the coin, being in that moment as is, eyes open.
Without mistaking the notion of ‘hopelessness’ with not having intentions or goals, Imagine yourself not feeling as if you must hope something… what a wonderful freeing feeling!
Imagine not living in this limbo of hope/fear and being honest with your friend. The history suggests your not going to be happy with the answer but at least you will know one why or the other. If you decide that that is not a risk your willing to take, fearing that you might lose what you have, then enjoy what you have as it is without the need for the hope/fear coin. You suffer either way however at least it would be a honest suffering.
Reading over the last I suspect I have been advising myself with regards to my own situation.. a exercise which I find oddly cathartic…. If I come off harsh I apologize.
April 4, 2023 at 12:35 am #417059JohnParticipantPeter,
No need to apologise. Â It doesnât sound harsh to me. Â To be honest, I donât really understand the message. Â I spoke to my friend again last night and she agreed to meet with me in a few days at her house. Â Iâm not sure how it will turn out and she thinks it will be a bad idea for both of us but recognises that it is important to me. Â After 4 years of waiting, I just want to spend time with her and would be perfectly happy to sit with her in silence and do nothing. Â Although very unlikely, I canât rule out the possibility that this could be the start of another âon againâ phase. Â The relationship has had many endings that were all thought to be absolutely final and they have turned out not to be. Â If that hope is obliterated perhaps I will get some release and be able to let go and move on. Â I canât be sure of that and suspect I will continue to live in hope that the person who I have loved for over 30 years will come back to me. Â Even if it happened, I know it would go nowhere as I have never been able to deal with the other side of my life. Â My actions with that part seem to be under the control of my damaged subconscious mind. Â I am unable to move forward rationally and create an outcome that my heart and rational mind has been crying out for, for the last 30 years.
April 4, 2023 at 1:22 am #417060TeeParticipantHi John,
I canât rule out the possibility that this could be the start of another âon againâ phase. … Even if it happened, I know it would go nowhere as I have never been able to deal with the other side of my life.
You want her to return to being your lover, although you know you won’t be able to leave your wife. I understand that you feel miserable and lonely without her. However, please have understanding for her too. Think of her needs – because she told you clearly that it’s not good for her to be in the role of your lover and wait for you to decide for years on end.
She had a very hard time freeing herself from this unhealthy situation, and she finally succeeded 4 years ago. She now realizes that meeting you won’t do her any good (she thinks it will be a bad idea for both of us), but unfortunately, she is too weak to resist.
I don’t think it’s fair to drag her into this again, specially since you know you won’t be able to leave your wife. Just try to look at it from her perspective, and how painful it is for her.
April 4, 2023 at 2:31 am #417061JohnParticipantTee,
I know I have caused her an awful lot of pain. Â The situation over all the years must have been truly awful for her. Â Iâm resolved to not cause anymore pain. Â We are at ease with each other, which is remarkable considering our history. Â She is getting on with life and living life to the full and seems to be in a happy place. Â She means an awful lot to me so I want her to be happy. Â When sheâs sad so am I so I must not cause more distress with promises I canât deliver. Â When I am calm and rational and we are in a good place, the promises seem to be the easiest thing to deliver but the calm rational thinking gets completely destroyed by my irrational, subconscious, side which I canât control. Â It controls me no matter how much I try to override it. Â I have always thought of myself as being fairly grounded and balanced and that is usually the case in most aspects of my life but have concluded that is not always the case and far from it.April 4, 2023 at 3:03 am #417062TeeParticipantHi John,
She is getting on with life and living life to the full and seems to be in a happy place.
But does she have a partner or she is single?
I must not cause more distress with promises I canât deliver.
I agree, it wouldn’t be fair to meet her and try to restart the romance, when you know how it will end…
When I am calm and rational and we are in a good place, the promises seem to be the easiest thing to deliver but the calm rational thinking gets completely destroyed by my irrational, subconscious, side which I canât control.
Yes, and because you know of this mechanism, I think you should have as much integrity as to not want to initiate it again. Even if you believe your subconscious is stronger than you and prevents you from leaving your wife, that’s one thing. That’s your life. But if you drag her into it, that’s already two lives affected.
I know that it’s her who is ultimately responsible for herself and her actions, however, it would be easier if you wouldn’t tempt her. And you could probably stop yourself from doing it, in spite of the “siren call” of your subconscious mind.
April 22, 2023 at 6:55 am #417668JohnParticipantAs mentioned I arranged to see the lady I hold most dear.  After 4 years of not seeing her.  We have communicated regularly but that was as much as I was allowed to remain in her life.  This time she agreed to meet at my request, which I didnât expect having been rejected many times since the last breakup.  My fault as always.  I think she sensed I am struggling at the moment.  I sense she agreed to meet out of pity as much as anything, which doesnât do much for my self-esteem.  We had a lovely time but it was made clear that it wasnât going anywhere.  Any sort of friendship seems not to be possible, which makes me wonder why we are still communicating regularly.  Knowing our history of many on and off periods, past experience tells me that ânoâ doesnât always mean ânoâ.  This time it feels different but I will live in hope with my delusions of what could and should and would have been if my issues had not got in the way.  Tee – in answer to your question, I think she has a partner but I donât know for sure.  On the balance of probability and lifestyle, I think she does.  I didnât ask as I would prefer her to tell me in her own time.  I hope she is happy.  She tells me thatâs the case.  No room for me anymore but Iâm glad we met which will probably be for the very last time.  She told me she has moved on and itâs all in the past.  Ancient history etcâŚ. I need to move on as well but I know myself well enough to know that wonât be anytime soon.  She was the one and I pushed her away with my self-destructive behaviour.  In a few weeks time it will be 31 years since the first day we kissed.  Clearly, Iâm one of those creatures that pairs for life.  Nature is full of them.
April 23, 2023 at 12:14 am #417671TeeParticipantHi John,
even though the meeting didn’t go the way you hoped for, I must say I am glad that she was strong enough. That this time “no” means “no”.
Any sort of friendship seems not to be possible, which makes me wonder why we are still communicating regularly.
That’s strange indeed, specially since she knows your intentions. As for why she agreed to meet this time, it might be because she has a kind heart and saw that you were struggling:
I think she sensed I am struggling at the moment. I sense she agreed to meet out of pity as much as anything,
But also, it could be that this time she was confident that she is strong enough to say no.
In a few weeks time it will be 31 years since the first day we kissed. Clearly, Iâm one of those creatures that pairs for life. Nature is full of them
I am sorry, John. The way I see it, you’ve paired with two women in your life: your wife and your mistress. And this can never lead to long-lasting happiness…
April 23, 2023 at 4:51 am #417673JohnParticipantI would like to be more of a friend or acquaintance but that doesn’t seem to be possible. After the last break-up 4 years ago things went non-contact for something like a couple of years. Then I was contacted again and the door was opened a little. Since then we have communicated by telephone and messaging, often on a daily basis. We get on well during this regular but limited contact. Over the last few years, I have often asked if we can meet but, apart from the last time, this has always been rejected. No doubt I will ask again, only to be rejected and hurt again. It seems very alien to me that this limited but frequent, and amicable contact is allowed but that’s as far as it goes. Especially since I am told that it is all in the past and is hardly given a second thought so why is there a need for the barrier? Lots of other friends and acquaintances seem not to get the same treatment as me. I try not to be jealous of this but I am. I am not anticipating that we will meet again and so I need to find a way to move on and leave it all behind.  I do wonder if I am just an annoyance that is tolerated, which is an idea that does not make me feel good about myself.
April 23, 2023 at 10:25 pm #417683TeeParticipantHi John,
It seems very alien to me that this limited but frequent, and amicable contact is allowed but thatâs as far as it goes. Especially since I am told that it is all in the past and is hardly given a second thought so why is there a need for the barrier?
It is strange that she is communicating with you on a regular basis. But it’s not strange that she is allowing only a limited contact, because everything beyond that (such as meeting on a regular basis) would carry the risk of turning into a romantic relationship, and she clearly doesn’t want that. She knows you want it, but she doesn’t. That’s why she is putting a barrier…
Lots of other friends and acquaintances seem not to get the same treatment as me.
Well, I guess because they don’t expect her to be romantically involved with them? You are in a different category because your intentions towards her are different…
I do wonder if I am just an annoyance that is tolerated, which is an idea that does not make me feel good about myself.
It’s possible that she feels a certain obligation towards you. I wonder if you are the one who primarily reaches out to her (and then she replies), or she also tends to initiate contact? I know she was the one to reach out first about 2 years ago, after 2 years of no contact, but how is it now? Does she initiate it or she just replies?
April 25, 2023 at 4:58 pm #417734MaidaParticipantThe hero in The Perks of Being a Wallflower asks his teacher why the girl he fancies could be with someone who treated her so badly. The response: “we accept the love we think we deserve.” On some level, do you believe you deserve the punishment your wife delivers, and do you feel unworthy of your other much healthier option? I think you should focus on figuring out how to love yourself better. Or maybe you need to forgive yourself for something in your past. Whatever it is, I wish you luck in letting go and finding your happiness.
April 26, 2023 at 4:20 am #417741JohnParticipantTee – It is entirely possible that she feels a certain obligation towards me. Perhaps as someone who once meant a lot to her…. and yes, I am the one who tends to initiate communications. It has always been a little that way as a result of the circumstances but more so these days, which speaks volumes. I am aware of its significance but am told that it isn’t an issue but it doesn’t always feel like that.
Maida – Thanks for your input. I didn’t do anything to deserve the punishment in the early days and I didn’t believe I deserved it either. A reason could always be fabricated and it was. As I have mentioned in a much earlier part to this story, it is largely absent these days but the damage inflicted is still with me. Not to the same degree it once was but still present. I am struggling at the moment with a sense of loss and grieving for what I once had and what could have been, even though I have already had years to get over it. I think I have to accept that this time it really is all ancient history but that is something I have had to try to accept on several previous occasions, which turned out not to be the case. History has had a habit of repeating itself. I think not this time though. I have to accept that and have had to live with it in the past but it will be hard for me to stop hoping and wanting, which I know isn’t the road I should be on.
April 27, 2023 at 2:55 am #417768TeeParticipantHi John,
and yes, I am the one who tends to initiate communications. It has always been a little that way as a result of the circumstances but more so these days, which speaks volumes.
It does seem she always politely replies, but doesn’t really initiate communication of her own accord. So your “limited but frequent, and amicable contact” is mostly because you are contacting her frequently, and she replies, possibly because she doesn’t want to be rude. Nevertheless, it seems she is keeping a firm boundary, even if she is polite, and even if she agreed to meet you this time.
I think I have to accept that this time it really is all ancient history but that is something I have had to try to accept on several previous occasions, which turned out not to be the case. History has had a habit of repeating itself. I think not this time though.
Based on her behavior, and her keeping a firm boundary (i.e. being polite but not initiating contact), I’d say that she has moved on indeed. And yes, you’d need to accept it.
but it will be hard for me to stop hoping and wanting, which I know isnât the road I should be on.
I know it will be hard, because she was an escape for you… And now that she’s not agreeing to that anymore, you’d need to choose a different road. A road to true freedom – the freedom to be who you are, to express yourself and your needs, to stand up for yourself, even if it feels very scary.
If you’d like to start exploring options for a different road, I’ll be happy to talk about it…
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